Misguided? Really??? Seriously???????

[JR4AU]

 
Nope!  Not at all!!!  I've got nothing to hide, and I've got nothing to worry about.  It wouldn't be a hassle at all.
Yeah...  

I love folks that want more government intrustion in their lives and seek to justify with "Since I've got nothing to hide..."

I like what Ben Franklin had to say on the subject: "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."


 

[GarMan]

I love folks that want more government intrustion in their lives and seek to justify with "Since I've got nothing to hide..."

I like what Ben Franklin had to say on the subject: "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." 

I agree with your logic, but I don't see it applying here.  All immigrants are already required to carry proof of their status with them at all times.  That's not a new requirement.  There's no unreasonable or additional "government intrusion" with that.  Period... 

[JR4AU]

I agree with your logic, but I don't see it applying here.  All immigrants are already required to carry proof of their status with them at all times.  That's not a new requirement.  There's no unreasonable or additional "government intrusion" with that.  Period... 

It's the slippery slope argument.  I'm not going to get in to all the misconceptions about illegals here, it would fall on deaf ears.  But, the law gives cops carte blanch to detain folks when they have 'reasonable suspicion' they are illegal.  (For the record, being "illegal" in this country isn't actually a criminal offense...it's a quasi criminal offense, and basically amounts to little more than a misdemeanor, the crime is illegal entry...the courts have said that remainging illegally isn't a criminal offense...many get here legally and remain after their visas expire...that less true in the border states, but a fact non the less.)  Ok, fine...but reasonable suspicion is a VERY low standard, and this law is ripe for abuse of American citizens who are not, and should not be required to carry proof of citizenship (read as being in my best Nazi SS dialect "Zyur Paperz Pleeez!") being detained for not having proof of something they're not required to have in the first place.  I think that's the reasonable arguement here...the potential for abuse is so great. 

[AUChizad]

It's the slippery slope argument.  I'm not going to get in to all the misconceptions about illegals here, it would fall on deaf ears.  But, the law gives cops carte blanch to detain folks when they have 'reasonable suspicion' they are illegal.  (For the record, being "illegal" in this country isn't actually a criminal offense...it's a quasi criminal offense, and basically amounts to little more than a misdemeanor, the crime is illegal entry...the courts have said that remainging illegally isn't a criminal offense...many get here legally and remain after their visas expire...that less true in the border states, but a fact non the less.)  Ok, fine...but reasonable suspicion is a VERY low standard, and this law is ripe for abuse of American citizens who are not, and should not be required to carry proof of citizenship (read as being in my best Nazi SS dialect "Zyur Paperz Pleeez!") being detained for not having proof of something they're not required to have in the first place.  I think that's the reasonable arguement here...the potential for abuse is so great. 

Don't worry. Not just the part about misconceptions about illegals will fall on deaf ears. All the logic, rationality, and facts of your post will fall on deaf ears as well.

[GarMan]

It's the slippery slope argument.  I'm not going to get in to all the misconceptions about illegals here, it would fall on deaf ears.  But, the law gives cops carte blanch to detain folks when they have 'reasonable suspicion' they are illegal.  (For the record, being "illegal" in this country isn't actually a criminal offense...it's a quasi criminal offense, and basically amounts to little more than a misdemeanor, the crime is illegal entry...the courts have said that remainging illegally isn't a criminal offense...many get here legally and remain after their visas expire...that less true in the border states, but a fact non the less.) 

Who said anything about detaining anyone?  I think there's just as much misconception about the new law as there is about legal vs. illegal status. 

Ok, fine...but reasonable suspicion is a VERY low standard, and this law is ripe for abuse of American citizens who are not, and should not be required to carry proof of citizenship (read as being in my best Nazi SS dialect "Zyur Paperz Pleeez!") being detained for not having proof of something they're not required to have in the first place.  I think that's the reasonable arguement here...the potential for abuse is so great. 

Risky...  I agree...  Possible?  Maybe...  I just don't see it happening. 

Just imagine the first time something like that did happen.  Then, there'd be a problem.

[wesfau2]

Risky...  I agree...  Possible?  Maybe...  I just don't see it happening. 

Just imagine the first time something like that did happen.  Then, there'd be a problem.

I think you have much more faith in law enforcement personnel than I do.

[GarMan]

I think you have much more faith in law enforcement personnel than I do. 

That may be true...  I just don't expect to see many "victims" coming out of this. 

[CCTAU]

That may be true...  I just don't expect to see many "victims" coming out of this. 

Whales are victims. More people should worry about saving the whales. There are less of them. Illegals don't need saving.

[AUTailgatingRules]

I love folks that want more government intrustion in their lives and seek to justify with "Since I've got nothing to hide..."

I like what Ben Franklin had to say on the subject: "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."


 

I by no means want more government intrusion in my life (lord knows there is already too much), however it is CURRENT LAW that all immigrants must carry and be able to show their papers when requested by law enforcement.  All I ask is that we actuall apply the laws that are already on the books.  If a cop pulls over a truckload full of Mexicans for speeding or some other violation and they can not provide proof of legal status then I say process them and ship them out if needed.

[CCTAU]

I by no means want more government intrusion in my life (lord knows there is already too much), however it is CURRENT LAW that all immigrants must carry and be able to show their papers when requested by law enforcement.  All I ask is that we actuall apply the laws that are already on the books.  If a cop pulls over a truckload full of Mexicans for speeding or some other violation and they can not provide proof of legal status then I say process them and ship them out if needed.

But..But..That is profiling. The only one that was breaking the law was the driver. Besides, like the video showed earlier, before the truck even stopped, all 42 of them would be scattered in different directions.

[GarMan]

...all 42 of them would be scattered in different directions.

That only happens when you shoot the front tires out and the truck rolls over a few times.  They'll scatter...  No doubt about that.

http://www.jaxobserver.com/2010/05/01/arizona-deputy-shot-in-border-confrontation/

Saturday, May 1st, 2010

Arizona Deputy Shot in Border Confrontation

PHOENIX – Five Hispanic men authorities described as drug smugglers shot a Pinal County sheriff’s deputy Friday afternoon when the officer came upon them and a large amount of marijuana in a remote part of south-central Arizona.

The area where the shooting took place is considered a high-traffic drug- and human-smuggling corridor.

A massive hunt that included helicopters with night vision and more than 100 officers, including SWAT teams, and search dogs, was pursuing the shooters Friday evening. More than one helicopter came under fire as officers rescued Deputy Louie Puroll, who was shot with an AK-47-type weapon around 4 p.m. MST, according to the sheriff’s office.

Puroll sustained a flesh wound above his kidney, but he was in good condition late Friday at Casa Grande Regional Medical Center.

“Our thoughts&prayers go out to the Pinal County Deputy shot during a stop,” Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer said in a Twitter message on the Internet Friday evening. “Contrary to what some leaders say, our borders are not secure.”

The shooting occurred exactly one week after Brewer signed the toughest anti-immigration law in the country. The legislation has been hotly debated, and it has put Arizona in the national spotlight over how a border state deals with rampant illegal immigration. The legislation has sparked protests and calls to boycott the state.

Pinal County Lt. Tami Villar said Friday’s incident “sends a very powerful and loud message that we have a problem.”

Villar said Puroll, 53, was attacked about 5 miles south of Interstate 8 near its junction with Arizona Highway 84. She said the veteran deputy is assigned to patrol the area known for drug smuggling.

She said the suspects were Hispanic men who “appear to be undocumented.”

Villar said the suspects were armed with long guns and at least one handgun. She said gunfire with helicopters came about an hour after the initial incident. An unknown amount of marijuana apparently handled by the shooters remained in the desert.

The Maricopa County Sheriff’s Office dispatched a helicopter and members of its SWAT team to Pinal County to assist in the case, said Sheriff’s Lt. Brian Lee. Pinal County also requested assistance from the Arizona Department of Public Safety, which responded with two helicopters and a SWAT team.

Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio was headed to Pinal County to assist in the investigation, Lee said. About 70 sheriff’s employees responded to the scene. Lee said most had been involved in a crime suppression sweep in the Maryvale area earlier in the day.

The Border Patrol also sent agents to help the Pinal County Sheriff’s Office with the investigation, said Mario Escalante, a Border Patrol spokesman assigned to the Tucson sector. 

Those poor misunderstood illegal immigrants are getting unnecessarily picked on by those racist pigs!

[Iwannaplay]

That only happens when you shoot the front tires out and the truck rolls over a few times.  They'll scatter...  No doubt about that.

http://www.jaxobserver.com/2010/05/01/arizona-deputy-shot-in-border-confrontation/

Those poor misunderstood illegal immigrants are getting unnecessarily picked on by those racist pigs!

I don't give two shits about rights of illegals.  Arrest them and send them back to Mexico.  Or better yet let's stop building a welfare state so they don't want to come here.  Or have actual border security.
The problem with the law is that it's going to make USA citizens have to carry around and show papers that they're legal.  Racial profiling of citizens of the USA. Fuck.

[AUChizad]

I don't give two shits about rights of illegals.  Arrest them and send them back to Mexico.  Or better yet let's stop building a welfare state so they don't want to come here.  Or have actual border security.
The problem with the law is that it's going to make USA citizens have to carry around and show papers that they're legal.  Racial profiling of citizens of the USA. Fuck.

[JR4AU]

I think you have much more faith in law enforcement personnel than I do.

Perzactly!

[GarMan]

Two VERY simple questions...

1. What can any Arizona law enforcement official do under the Arizona immigration law that a federal law enforcement official cannot already do?
 
2. What requirement does the Arizona law place on any non-citizen living in Arizona that federal law does not already place on any non-citizen living elsewhere in the United States?

[GarMan]

Two VERY simple questions...

1. What can any Arizona law enforcement official do under the Arizona immigration law that a federal law enforcement official cannot already do?
 
2. What requirement does the Arizona law place on any non-citizen living in Arizona that federal law does not already place on any non-citizen living elsewhere in the United States? 

Are we just tired of this? 

[GH2001]

Are we just tired of this? 

Our President and Atty Gen havent even read the 10 page bill - yet can prounce around proclaiming it this and that. I just can't believe the dummy got in front of Congress, on TV and admitted he had not read it. This admin just lost me on this issue. Total failure.