Religion Poll

[Townhallsavoy]

I realize this post was in jest, but this is mostly due to the location of the voters.  If the poll had been taken in Afghanistan or Yemen, then the results would be decidedly Muslim.  Buddhist in Cambodia and Taiwan, Hindu in India, and you'd notice a very large absence of religion in Estonia.

This makes me wonder if most people actually study religions and choose a faith that suits them the best or appears to be the most truthful, or if their religion is mostly culturally induced.

Those polls would have been irrelevant as they are areas littered with heathens.  Damn garlic smellin' bastards.

In all seriousness, it is definitely true that your religious affiliation is directly tied to your parents' dogmatic brainwashing/culturally induced peer pressure.  Most people (all religions) remain committed to the one they are introduced to at a young age. 

But that doesn't change the fact that an overwhelming majority of Earth's population recognizes the existence of a god or God.  While this isn't concrete evidence to support his existence or the purpose for religion, I think it's a factor that has to be taken into consideration when deciding what to believe regarding your own personal spiritual life. 

Although, as I grow older in age and wisdom, I've come to realization that an overwhelming majority of Earth's population are sick with the Dumbass Disease.  So who really knows?

[Kaos]

This makes me wonder if most people actually study religions and choose a faith that suits them the best or appears to be the most truthful, or if their religion is mostly culturally induced dogmatic brainwashing instilled from birth.

Not trying to start a fight, but you don't see any problem with making this kind of insulting statement?  Because you don't believe you disparage all of us who do with your snide and condescending attitude.

And you wonder how things spin out of hand sometimes.  

[AUTiger1]

This makes me wonder if most people actually study religions and choose a faith that suits them the best or appears to be the most truthful, or if their religion is mostly culturally induced dogmatic brainwashing instilled from birth.

Not true at all.  There are many who choose to follow/worship a god or God that had no religious influence in the home they grew up in as there are many who choose not to follow/worship a god or God when they grew up around it everyday. 

[AUChizad]

Not trying to start a fight, but you don't see any problem with making this kind of insulting statement?  Because you don't believe you disparage all of us who do with your snide and condescending attitude.

And you wonder how things spin out of hand sometimes.  

I don't mean to insult. This is why I don't like discussing this topic, and won't from here on out if my opinion is not wanted.

There's a mechanism built in as a basic tenet of most, if not all, religions whereby anyone or anything that challenges or is critical of it simply cannot be discussed: blasphemy.

Much like the tenet that forces one to ignore science, reason, and logic and apply those rules to religion in a different manner than they would to everything else that takes place in the natural world: faith.

Essentially, it doesn't make sense, because it's not supposed to. It's a test. If you apply critical thinking, then you fail the test, i.e. have no faith. And if an argument that challenges that faith arises, it's the work of Satan. Be deeply offended. Block it out best you can.

Not true at all.  There are many who choose to follow/worship a god or God that had no religious influence in the home they grew up in...

In which case they were indoctrinated by members of their cultural environment at a later age. Indoctrination is not impossible at any age, only it is far easier to do so at a developmental age. Hence frenzies about tobacco companies advertising to children, etc. Either way, those cases are comparatively far far rarer, and even more rare is it that a person comes to a religion that is not the social norm amongst their peers.

...as there are many who choose not to follow/worship a god or God when they grew up around it everyday.

I don't see how this disproves anything I said at all. Not everyone is susceptible to being indoctrinated. It is in some people's nature not to blindly accept what they are told, but rather ask questions. These questions may very well lead them away from the beliefs of their parents.

Religion is, by its very nature,  a topic that demands respect and must be handled with kid gloves or else people get very, very offended.

I admit I'm not very good at that, no matter the topic, so I'll probably just bite my tongue from this point forward.

[Saniflush]

Where man fails now and throughout most of time is the ignoring of science.  There has never been any reason why science and religion/faith have to be mutually exclusive yet they are treated as such by most.

Aw, sugar that is not true. Some of us can keep things in the vault.

I heard it is more cavernous than a vault.

[Kaos]

I don't mean to insult. This is why I don't like discussing this topic, and won't from here on out if my opinion is not wanted.

There's a mechanism built in as a basic tenet of most, if not all, religions whereby anyone or anything that challenges or is critical of it simply cannot be discussed: blasphemy.

Much like the tenet that forces one to ignore science, reason, and logic and apply those rules to religion in a different manner than they would to everything else that takes place in the natural world: faith.

Essentially, it doesn't make sense, because it's not supposed to. It's a test. If you apply critical thinking, then you fail the test, i.e. have no faith. And if an argument that challenges that faith arises, it's the work of Satan. Be deeply offended. Block it out best you can.
In which case they were indoctrinated by members of their cultural environment at a later age. Indoctrination is not impossible at any age, only it is far easier to do so at a developmental age. Hence frenzies about tobacco companies advertising to children, etc. Either way, those cases are comparatively far far rarer, and even more rare is it that a person comes to a religion that is not the social norm amongst their peers.
I don't see how this disproves anything I said at all. Not everyone is susceptible to being indoctrinated. It is in some people's nature not to blindly accept what they are told, but rather ask questions. These questions may very well lead them away from the beliefs of their parents.

Religion is, by its very nature,  a topic that demands respect and must be handled with kid gloves or else people get very, very offended.

I admit I'm not very good at that, no matter the topic, so I'll probably just bite my tongue from this point forward.

It's not a matter of your opinion not being wanted, it's more the concept that because you don't believe you seemingly have contempt for those who do by dismissing their core values as "indoctrination." 

I can't speak for anybody else, but nobody indoctrinated me.  I chose -- or more to the point I feel I was chosen -- to believe what I believe.

I don't mind anybody criticizing my faith -- and a lot of the things done in the name of the Christian Church are deserving of criticism -- nor do I mind a challenge.  It does bother me for someone who thinks differently to assume that those of us who believe are somehow less able to apply logic or rationality or that we're all less erudite.

Your view of "faith" is not at all how I arrived at this place at all.  I've never blindly accepted anything in my life.  I asked plenty of questions and got answers.  But that's something nobody can do for you. 

[Saniflush]

It's not a matter of your opinion not being wanted, it's more the concept that because you don't believe you seemingly have contempt for those who do by dismissing their core values as "indoctrination." 

I can't speak for anybody else, but nobody indoctrinated me.  I chose -- or more to the point I feel I was chosen -- to believe what I believe.

I don't mind anybody criticizing my faith -- and a lot of the things done in the name of the Christian Church are deserving of criticism -- nor do I mind a challenge.  It does bother me for someone who thinks differently to assume that those of us who believe are somehow less able to apply logic or rationality or that we're all less erudite.

Your view of "faith" is not at all how I arrived at this place at all.  I've never blindly accepted anything in my life.  I asked plenty of questions and got answers.  But that's something nobody can do for you. 

Very well put.  You get a star.

[AUsweetheart]

I heard it is more cavernous than a vault.

helloooooooo ^{hellooooooooo} _{hellooooooooo}


I got lots of secrets.

[GH2001]

It's not a matter of your opinion not being wanted, it's more the concept that because you don't believe you seemingly have contempt for those who do by dismissing their core values as "indoctrination." 

I can't speak for anybody else, but nobody indoctrinated me.  I chose -- or more to the point I feel I was chosen -- to believe what I believe.

I don't mind anybody criticizing my faith -- and a lot of the things done in the name of the Christian Church are deserving of criticism -- nor do I mind a challenge.  It does bother me for someone who thinks differently to assume that those of us who believe are somehow less able to apply logic or rationality or that we're all less erudite.

Your view of "faith" is not at all how I arrived at this place at all.  I've never blindly accepted anything in my life.  I asked plenty of questions and got answers.  But that's something nobody can do for you. 

THIS....

Was going to leave this one alone but I will bite...

And thanks for the blanket statement Chad. Now all of us naive, brainwashed Christians will go back into hiding and keep getting conned out of our weekly paychecks   ~sarcasm intended~

And have you ever thought about for a second that when you speak of logic and science with faith, that you are attempting to apply human knowledge and logic to a situation that is possibly above and beyond that of a human? Of course hypothetically - that is assuming there IS a God. And going with that - its using Orange logic on an Apple.

The biggest thing with me on religion/God/faith/etc, is that I just find it very very hard to believe that everything you see in front of you and how the entire world is intricately connected and woven in such a perfect complex manner - is just an accident or a big bang or evolution. There is an intelligent design to it all. There are complex things such as DNA, procreation, the atmosphere, agriculture - that CANNOT be a spontaneous creation of an amoeba  or an atom deciding it wanted to be something bigger in random fashion. It just makes no sense - no disrespect to Hawking - I think he's a smart guy, but his theories just seem TOO simplistic to explain all of this we see. 

Just my .02.

[wesfau2]

And thanks for the blanket statement Chad. Now all of us naive, brainwashed Christians will go back into hiding and keep getting conned out of our weekly paychecks   ~sarcasm intended~

You and Kaos are making the mistake of assuming that Chad's "indoctrination" comment was aimed solely at Christians.

In the context of the discussion, Chad's comment addressed the proclivity of certain geographic regions to be dominated by a particular religion. 

You tend to be most like the people that surround you.  The shining examples of individuality on this forum notwithstanding, this is a pretty universal truth about people.

[Kaos]

You and Kaos are making the mistake of assuming that Chad's "indoctrination" comment was aimed solely at Christians.

In the context of the discussion, Chad's comment addressed the proclivity of certain geographic regions to be dominated by a particular religion. 

You tend to be most like the people that surround you.  The shining examples of individuality on this forum notwithstanding, this is a pretty universal truth about people.

I made no such mistake.  It had the capacity to insult me as a Christian, but it also has the same impact on a Jew, Muslim or whatever. 

Not to veer this off in another direction, but your last comment is one of the platforms used by those who oppose forced integration.  When left to their own devices and free of governmental intrusion, the natural human tendency of people is to live, work, interact and worship with people who share the same characteristics.  In the past few decades that tendency hasn't really changed much.  You can add the wealth factor, in that people are most comfortable around people of similar wealth, but even that has some limits. 

[wesfau2]

I made no such mistake.  It had the capacity to insult me as a Christian, but it also has the same impact on a Jew, Muslim or whatever. 

My apologies for assuming your assumption.

Not to veer this off in another direction, but your last comment is one of the platforms used by those who oppose forced integration.  When left to their own devices and free of governmental intrusion, the natural human tendency of people is to live, work, interact and worship with people who share the same characteristics.  In the past few decades that tendency hasn't really changed much.  You can add the wealth factor, in that people are most comfortable around people of similar wealth, but even that has some limits. 

So....why the problem with Chad's statement then?

[Kaos]

So....why the problem with Chad's statement then?

The way it was phrased led me to believe that he was dismissing all religion as mumbo-jumbo and that by believing in whatever it is we believe, we are by definition "brainwashed." 

Maybe that's not what he meant, but the way it was expressed devalued something that is probably the single most important aspect in the lives of millions of people. 

I took his contention to be that those who believe are inherently dumber, are unable to process rational or logical thought or are mentally weaker than those who don't believe.  His implication appeared to be that believers are incapable of critical thinking.  I disagree with that completely. 

Religious belief is a very personal thing. There were years of critical thinking -- and several years of outright rejection -- involved in my decision.  Yes, I know everybody isn't like that.  I know that some people are Methodists because their parents and grandparents were -- just as some people are Auburn/Alabama fans for that same reason (another form of indoctrination).  But for many the choice to believe is the result of much (pardon the expression) soul searching. 

I studied other religions.  I know that many of the stories in the Bible are contained in other doctrines.  The story of Moses being set adrift in the River Nile as a baby, for instance, bears striking similarities to the story of Aragon in  ancient Mesopotamian writings.  I guess I'm probably different from others because it isn't necessary for me to believe in the absolute veracity of the story of Moses to understand the truths being conveyed in that story.  For me, that's really what matters. 

But back to the topic.  It's the same story we've seen on a thousand other topics.   "Enlightened" is in the eye of the beholder. 

[Godfather]

This is the way I see this argument.  

A. Your right and there is no God, there is nothing in the afterlife, when we die...thats it.

B. I am right and God exists, there is a heaven and a hell and we get to spend an eternity with those we love sitting on rainbows.

Either way YOU are fucked!

[GH2001]

My apologies for assuming your assumption.

So....why the problem with Chad's statement then?

Wanting to be around others already like you on a free will basis   vs   becoming like those already around you via indoctrination = 2 different things.

[GH2001]

Religious belief is a very personal thing. There were years of critical thinking -- and several years of outright rejection -- involved in my decision.  Yes, I know everybody isn't like that.  I know that some people are Methodists because their parents and grandparents were -- just as some people are Auburn/Alabama fans for that same reason (another form of indoctrination).  But for many the choice to believe is the result of much (pardon the expression) soul searching. 
   

Exactly.

If I had been successfully indoctrinated from what was around me growing up I would be an Alabama fan and Catholic. I was raised Irish Catholic but am now Methodist because as I got older I formed my own opinions and went the way I thought was right - not the way I was told to go. If anything, I bucked against the system. Like Kaos, there are a few things/beliefs that many in the Christian faith share (that technically aren't a 'must have' in the Bible) that I think is total hogwash. Christianity in itself isn't bad at all. In its true form its a very modest, peaceful religion. Unfortunately, a lot of "Christians" have turned a lot of people off of Christianity via using their own personal convictions and loose interpretations of the Bible and trying to retrofit them together and force it down people's throats by passing judgement in a very dogmatic fashion. Ive had many a Southern Baptist (or like fundamental denomination) judge me for simply being a Methodist. We're too liberal, our pastor structure isnt righteous, we dont do this right, we dont do that right, we dont call it a tithe but an offering and we all know it takes a "tithe" to get to heaven, etc etc. And its sad

[Saniflush]

. Unfortunately, a lot of "Christians" have turned a lot of people off of Christianity via using their own personal convictions and loose interpretations of the Bible and trying to retrofit them together and force it down people's throats by passing judgement in a very dogmatic fashion.

As Sam Kinison said about God thumbing through the bible while speaking to Jim Baker....."where did I say build a water slide?"

[GH2001]

As Sam Kinison said about God thumbing through the bible while speaking to Jim Baker....."where did I say build a water slide?"

"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." -   Mahatma Gandhi

[AUChizad]

Wanting to be around others already like you on a free will basis   vs   becoming like those already around you via indoctrination = 2 different things.

So, do you really dispute this?

Do you disagree that the vast majority of people in the Middle East are Muslim?

Do you disagree that the vast majority of people in East Asia are Buddhist?

Do you disagree that the vast majority of people in Southeast Asia (India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, etc.) are Hindu?

Do you disagree that the vast majority of people in Japan are Shinto?

Do you disagree that the vast majority of people in the United States are Christian? Even more so when broken down further to only include the South, and even more specifically in that case Protestant Christian? Catholics in Mexico?

[GH2001]

So, do you really dispute this?

Do you disagree that the vast majority of people in the Middle East are Muslim?

Do you disagree that the vast majority of people in East Asia are Buddhist?

Do you disagree that the vast majority of people in Southeast Asia (India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, etc.) are Hindu?

Do you disagree that the vast majority of people in Japan are Shinto?

Do you disagree that the vast majority of people in the United States are Christian? Even more so when broken down further to only include the South, and even more specifically in that case Protestant Christian? Catholics in Mexico?

Not sure where you're going but all I was saying is that not all people who believe in a religion are indoctrinated or brainwashed. Like people tend to stick together. Same reason you have little Italy, Hell's Kitchen, Chinatown - people USUALLY will flock to where there are people of their like. Its just human nature. I dont think indoctrination is a factor most of the time.