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Man Up - Repealing "Don't Ask Don't Tell "

AUChizad

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Re: Man Up - Repealing "Don't Ask Don't Tell "
« Reply #120 on: February 05, 2010, 12:21:32 PM »
I haven't shouted a damn thing -- except in response to someone else shouting.  There is no hypocrisy.  If I don't see it, I have no opinion to offer. But when it is debated, I have the right to express mine, no?  Apparently not.  There, my deluded friend, is the hypocrisy.  
You keep going back to this, and it is ridiculous.

The homosexuals you are "responding to", are only "responding to" the people who vocally condemn them to hell and demand that they conform to their approved lifestyle.

The fact that you don't recognize this cycle explains a lot i.e. your constant battles with Chopper & Prowler, that you truly believe you are not instigating.
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AWK

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Re: Man Up - Repealing "Don't Ask Don't Tell "
« Reply #121 on: February 05, 2010, 12:36:40 PM »
All extraneous bullshit aside...

This topic really boils down to gays asking for the Don't Ask Don't Tell policy to be repealed and certain members of Congress embracing that idea.  

When that request comes from the people in charge of the military, then it should matter.  I'll admit, I've never served in the military and it isn't my place to tell those who have and do how their operation should be run.  

That said, there are a few others who also have no place making such demands:

1) Some random gay blogger with an axe to grind who makes baseless statements and fraudulent accusations (the genesis of this thread).

2) A lawyer who knows nothing but the blanket of free speech -- which frankly, shouldn't apply to the military for obvious reasons.

3) A variety of other people who've responded in this thread with nothing but their own personal agendas and viewpoints, none of which have any basis in or knowledge of military function.

4) Members of Congress who aren't serving in the military, many who have never served, and some whose sole purpose is making headlines and pacifying a segment of the electorate.  


And now, this discussion is closed.  
#2 Mea culpa, I forgot we should leave all matters of free speech to citizens, who aren't actually putting their lives on the line to defend it.  Give me a break.  Go read the constitution, and then read every Supreme Court case since its adoption until current regarding free speech...then come back and we can have a conversation. 

#3 - Actually, many people who commented on this subject made knowledgeable and fact based arguments.  One thing you have trouble dealing with K, is that just because you don't agree with someone doesn't mean their argument lacks knowledge.

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Redskins cornerback DeAngelo Hall said, "Guys don't mind hitting Michael Vick in the open field, but when you see Cam, you have to think about how you're going to tackle him. He's like a big tight end coming at you."

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Re: Man Up - Repealing "Don't Ask Don't Tell "
« Reply #122 on: February 05, 2010, 12:41:14 PM »
You keep going back to this, and it is ridiculous.

The homosexuals you are "responding to", are only "responding to" the people who vocally condemn them to hell and demand that they conform to their approved lifestyle.

The fact that you don't recognize this cycle explains a lot i.e. your constant battles with Chopper & Prowler, that you truly believe you are not instigating.

You're intent on setting fail records today, Sancho.

Don't think I've ever offered an unsolicited opinion on homosexuality in this forum. My comments here are in direct, direct I say, response to an opinion offered by others. An opinion with which  I disagree and the method of delivery of which I found highly offensive, I must add.

You are Sancho for a reason, not the least of which is your inability to recognize logical progression.  
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GarMan

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Re: Man Up - Repealing "Don't Ask Don't Tell "
« Reply #123 on: February 05, 2010, 01:07:35 PM »
Accommodations at the expense of others?  Once again, it sounds like there is an unrealistic expectation that a homosexual is going to break out into the routine from Flashdance and freak everyone the phuk out. 
No…  I never suggested that.  I’m not sure how you would have even come to that conclusion…  unless you’re stereotyping the homosexual community. 

If you even bothered to read the post regarding the RAND report, then you'll see that homosexuals in the military have had no effect on military operations in other countries. 
I trust those so-called analysts and experts behind this RAND report about as much as I trust Obama to improve the economy.  It means nothing.  There were an awful lot of reports written about Korea, Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan.  Many of them were proven wrong. 

It’s a far cry from the military, but I’m managing a fairly large project right now.  For the first six months, I had this one resource on the team who did not relate well with the other team members.  He seemed to be a nice enough guy, and I tried to integrate him into the team several times.  He just had an awkward sense of humor, and his personality was strange.  His mannerisms “freaked people out” as many on the team felt it necessary to speak to me about him.  Eventually, these differences led to professional issues.  They didn’t trust him.  They didn’t value his opinion.  And sometimes, they would discredit him in front of other team members, and eventually, they started doing this in front of the client team members.  I had to let him go.  He became a disruptive force on the team, and I could not continue to support him.  I’m sure that he was a capable resource, and at times, he impressed me with his work product.  But, I could not continue to keep him on the team. 

The workplace is more of a social organization than the military.  I could afford to take a chance with him by staffing him on a project.  Since then, I’ve staffed him on another engagement.  The military is different.  By design, it’s not meant to be a social organization, and these types of experiments are far more risky and dangerous. 

There's this little thing called war.  It can happen anywhere and anytime, even on our own soil.  Maybe your history books didn't teach you about the World Wars and Vietnam, but there are times when we need every enlisted soldier and draftable person to be able to actively participate in physical combat.  It's at those times that a soldier with a life-threatening disease or defect can not be depended upon to protect our country.  Let's not forget about the fact that, easy military job or not, you still have to go through basic training, recurring physical training, etc.  Those who are more prone to be injured or die during such physical activities aren't going to be of much worth to the military. 
You’re a military expert now.  Great…  It still sounds, smells and tastes like discrimination, no matter how you color it. 

Even if you don't buy into this and still think we should have people with Downs Syndrome enlisted so that they can mop floors and walk the major's dog, you still have yet to even compare homosexuality in any way to the physical maladies of which you speak.  Other than complaining that it would be interrupting others' military service (which is proven not to be true by the RAND report), you have not set forth some sort of analogous reason as to why a homosexual would be unable to actually perform in the military as heterosexuals do. 
I never said that.  Are you building one of those straw-tigers to battle?  And, as far as capability of a person with Downs Syndrome, I’ve seen some with incredible physical attributes,  probably greater than our average GI.  So, why would you discriminate against him if he's fully capable of military service?
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My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them.  - Winston Churchill

Eating and sleeping are the only activities that should be allowed to interrupt a man's enjoyment of his cigar.  - Mark Twain

Nothing says "Obey Me" like a bloody head on a fence post!  - Stewie Griffin

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."  - Ayn Rand

Kaos

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Re: Man Up - Repealing "Don't Ask Don't Tell "
« Reply #124 on: February 05, 2010, 01:23:15 PM »
#2 Mea culpa, I forgot we should leave all matters of free speech to citizens, who aren't actually putting their lives on the line to defend it.  Give me a break.  Go read the constitution, and then read every Supreme Court case since its adoption until current regarding free speech...then come back and we can have a conversation. 

#3 - Actually, many people who commented on this subject made knowledgeable and fact based arguments.  One thing you have trouble dealing with K, is that just because you don't agree with someone doesn't mean their argument lacks knowledge.



"Free speech" is a one size fits all blanket employed by lawyers when no other valid argument exists. The "right" to serve in the military as an avowed queer is hardly an issue of free speech.

While I respect those who have served their opinion is just that. Their opinion. It does not reflect the official posiion of the armed services nor does it reflect the policies of the men in charge. I defer to those whose job it is to make those decisions and they, to this point, have been clear.
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Kaos

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Re: Man Up - Repealing "Don't Ask Don't Tell "
« Reply #125 on: February 05, 2010, 01:29:55 PM »
Okay. Show of hands

Who here loves the offseason
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GH2001

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Re: Man Up - Repealing "Don't Ask Don't Tell "
« Reply #126 on: February 05, 2010, 01:46:34 PM »
I happen to agree with this guy's opinion - especially the bolded part.

http://www.atomicnerds.com/?p=3213


Except you are not having to share the same locker room and living quarters with those who fantasize about you, like we would have to.
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Saniflush

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Re: Man Up - Repealing "Don't Ask Don't Tell "
« Reply #127 on: February 05, 2010, 01:47:46 PM »
Okay. Show of hands

Who here loves the offseason

MEEEEEEEEEEEE
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"Hey my friends are the ones that wanted to eat at that shitty hole in the wall that only served bread and wine.  What kind of brick and mud business model is that.  Stick to the cart if that's all you're going to serve.  Then that dude came in with like 12 other people, and some of them weren't even wearing shoes, and the restaurant sat them right across from us. It was gross, and they were all stinky and dirty.  Then dude starts talking about eating his body and drinking his blood...I almost lost it.  That's the last supper I'll ever have there, and I hope he dies a horrible death."

AWK

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Re: Man Up - Repealing "Don't Ask Don't Tell "
« Reply #128 on: February 05, 2010, 01:48:31 PM »
That's some freedom of speech right there, and pure sex appeal.
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Redskins cornerback DeAngelo Hall said, "Guys don't mind hitting Michael Vick in the open field, but when you see Cam, you have to think about how you're going to tackle him. He's like a big tight end coming at you."

Kaos

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Re: Man Up - Repealing "Don't Ask Don't Tell "
« Reply #129 on: February 05, 2010, 01:52:53 PM »
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GH2001

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Re: Man Up - Repealing "Don't Ask Don't Tell "
« Reply #130 on: February 05, 2010, 01:55:37 PM »
+1

Is that you - circa Halloween 2008?

Im gonna admit K, it looks better than the cat costume. Not even close.
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AWK

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Re: Man Up - Repealing "Don't Ask Don't Tell "
« Reply #131 on: February 05, 2010, 02:08:58 PM »
Is that you - circa Halloween 2008?

Im gonna admit K, it looks better than the cat costume. Not even close.
That would be me.
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Redskins cornerback DeAngelo Hall said, "Guys don't mind hitting Michael Vick in the open field, but when you see Cam, you have to think about how you're going to tackle him. He's like a big tight end coming at you."

GarMan

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Re: Man Up - Repealing "Don't Ask Don't Tell "
« Reply #132 on: February 05, 2010, 02:35:32 PM »
Except you are not having to share the same locker room, showers, latrene and living quarters with those who fantasize about you, like we would have to. 

FTFY...

And, EXACTLY! 
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My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them.  - Winston Churchill

Eating and sleeping are the only activities that should be allowed to interrupt a man's enjoyment of his cigar.  - Mark Twain

Nothing says "Obey Me" like a bloody head on a fence post!  - Stewie Griffin

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."  - Ayn Rand

wesfau2

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Re: Man Up - Repealing "Don't Ask Don't Tell "
« Reply #133 on: February 05, 2010, 02:37:49 PM »
FTFY...

And, EXACTLY! 

Oh noes!  That awful gay dude is having icky thoughts about me!!!!!

I'll take a compliment no matter the source.
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You can keep a wooden stake in your trunk
On the off-chance that the fairy tales ain't bunk
And Imma keep a bottle of that funk
To get motel parking lot, balcony crunk.

GarMan

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Re: Man Up - Repealing "Don't Ask Don't Tell "
« Reply #134 on: February 05, 2010, 02:40:27 PM »
Okay. Show of hands

Who here loves the offseason

I catch a lot of sleep during basketball season, especially during games!
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My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them.  - Winston Churchill

Eating and sleeping are the only activities that should be allowed to interrupt a man's enjoyment of his cigar.  - Mark Twain

Nothing says "Obey Me" like a bloody head on a fence post!  - Stewie Griffin

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."  - Ayn Rand

CCTAU

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Re: Man Up - Repealing "Don't Ask Don't Tell "
« Reply #135 on: February 05, 2010, 03:03:41 PM »
MEEEEEEEEEEEE


See. This is more like it. From a military standpoint, this guy needs no training. Send him straight to the front, dressed as is and carrying peace flowers. Muslim extremists will love him and peace will immediately break out in the middle east, along with song and dance. Issue solved.
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Five statements of WISDOM
1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity, by legislating the wealth out of prosperity.
2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.
3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.
5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friends, is the beginning of the end of any nation.

Kaos

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Re: Man Up - Repealing "Don't Ask Don't Tell "
« Reply #136 on: February 05, 2010, 03:05:36 PM »
The reason honest debate can no longer happen.  This thread proves it.  

In this thread I offered an opinion that differs (in come cases dramatically) from that held by others on this board.  Some I respect, some I don't.  I've made a conscious effort to remain on topic and refrain from bringing personalities into it.  Haven't always succeeded, but there hasn't been any calling people dumbasses or dismissing their point out of hand with a handy emoticon.  There were a few unfortunate Pelosi-isms and those I quickly moved away from. I've said that opinions lack logical thought and are irrational.  I've said that positions have no substance.  

On the other hand, I've been assailed as narrow minded.  I've been branded a bigot. I've been dismissed as unenlightened and backward.  I've been told I hate people. I've had my religion equated with terrorist propaganda. I'be been called shallow and filed away with cousin-humping bama  trash.  I had my personal family relationships denigrated.

And that was all without Chizad's unintentionally comical Phyllis-esque trailer-park porch rant.  (Yes, he gets the personal shots, because he earned them).  

That's what offering an opinion -- and one that speaks for many more than you'd care to admit -- gets you these days.  

It's not a pretty sight.  None of you are any more intelligent than I am.  I guarantee that.  Nor am I any more intelligent than you -- well some of you, anyway.  None of you have a monopoly on enlightenment. None of us are the harbingers of truth.  My opinion has just as much validity as yours.  Wouldn't know it, though, would you?  

Honest legitimate discussion must be quashed by "the enlightened" who substitute their personal morality for that of us all.  
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GarMan

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Re: Man Up - Repealing "Don't Ask Don't Tell "
« Reply #137 on: February 05, 2010, 03:09:33 PM »
Oh noes!  That awful gay dude is having icky thoughts about me!!!!!

I'll take a compliment no matter the source.
Double your odds... 
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My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them.  - Winston Churchill

Eating and sleeping are the only activities that should be allowed to interrupt a man's enjoyment of his cigar.  - Mark Twain

Nothing says "Obey Me" like a bloody head on a fence post!  - Stewie Griffin

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."  - Ayn Rand

GH2001

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Re: Man Up - Repealing "Don't Ask Don't Tell "
« Reply #138 on: February 05, 2010, 03:22:01 PM »
The reason honest debate can no longer happen.  This thread proves it.  

In this thread I offered an opinion that differs (in come cases dramatically) from that held by others on this board.  Some I respect, some I don't.  I've made a conscious effort to remain on topic and refrain from bringing personalities into it.  Haven't always succeeded, but there hasn't been any calling people dumbasses or dismissing their point out of hand with a handy emoticon.  There were a few unfortunate Pelosi-isms and those I quickly moved away from. I've said that opinions lack logical thought and are irrational.  I've said that positions have no substance.  

On the other hand, I've been assailed as narrow minded.  I've been branded a bigot. I've been dismissed as unenlightened and backward.  I've been told I hate people. I've had my religion equated with terrorist propaganda. I'be been called shallow and filed away with cousin-humping bama  trash.  I had my personal family relationships denigrated.

And that was all without Chizad's unintentionally comical Phyllis-esque trailer-park porch rant.  (Yes, he gets the personal shots, because he earned them).  

That's what offering an opinion -- and one that speaks for many more than you'd care to admit -- gets you these days.  

It's not a pretty sight.  None of you are any more intelligent than I am.  I guarantee that.  Nor am I any more intelligent than you -- well some of you, anyway.  None of you have a monopoly on enlightenment. None of us are the harbingers of truth.  My opinion has just as much validity as yours.  Wouldn't know it, though, would you?  

Honest legitimate discussion must be quashed by "the enlightened" who substitute their personal morality for that of us all.  

Not sure if I was included in the statement, but I did have a legit response before my joking one about your cat costume. But seriously - I meant the first post. GarMan made it even better.
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AUChizad

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Re: Man Up - Repealing "Don't Ask Don't Tell "
« Reply #139 on: February 05, 2010, 03:24:23 PM »
The reason honest debate can no longer happen.  This thread proves it.  

In this thread I offered an opinion that differs (in come cases dramatically) from that held by others on this board.  Some I respect, some I don't.  I've made a conscious effort to remain on topic and refrain from bringing personalities into it.  Haven't always succeeded, but there hasn't been any calling people dumbasses or dismissing their point out of hand with a handy emoticon.  There were a few unfortunate Pelosi-isms and those I quickly moved away from. I've said that opinions lack logical thought and are irrational.  I've said that positions have no substance.  

On the other hand, I've been assailed as narrow minded.  I've been branded a bigot. I've been dismissed as unenlightened and backward.  I've been told I hate people. I've had my religion equated with terrorist propaganda. I'be been called shallow and filed away with cousin-humping bama  trash.  I had my personal family relationships denigrated.

And that was all without Chizad's unintentionally comical Phyllis-esque trailer-park porch rant.  (Yes, he gets the personal shots, because he earned them).  

That's what offering an opinion -- and one that speaks for many more than you'd care to admit -- gets you these days.  

It's not a pretty sight.  None of you are any more intelligent than I am.  I guarantee that.  Nor am I any more intelligent than you -- well some of you, anyway.  None of you have a monopoly on enlightenment. None of us are the harbingers of truth.  My opinion has just as much validity as yours.  Wouldn't know it, though, would you?  

Honest legitimate discussion must be quashed by "the enlightened" who substitute their personal morality for that of us all.  
:thumsup:

Could you please be more specific? What have I said that is the incoherent babble you claim it to be? The fact that you set me apart and dismiss everything I say as ignorance is because you have nothing to refute. It's the same tactic you fail miserably at applying when Chopper hands you your ass in thread after thread.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2010, 03:29:14 PM by AUChizad »
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