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Man Up - Repealing "Don't Ask Don't Tell "

Saniflush

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Re: Man Up - Repealing "Don't Ask Don't Tell "
« Reply #80 on: February 05, 2010, 07:07:02 AM »
I meant that if you are stuck out on deployment in the desert for 6 weeks with no access to women, you get over it.  You don’t up and die, or start raping every villager you come across.  You find ways to either ignore it or supress it.  There is no class on “How to control yourself” other than the entire training process of “For the good of the unit”. 
 

I can say this is right.


and Taylor loves da cock.
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"Hey my friends are the ones that wanted to eat at that shitty hole in the wall that only served bread and wine.  What kind of brick and mud business model is that.  Stick to the cart if that's all you're going to serve.  Then that dude came in with like 12 other people, and some of them weren't even wearing shoes, and the restaurant sat them right across from us. It was gross, and they were all stinky and dirty.  Then dude starts talking about eating his body and drinking his blood...I almost lost it.  That's the last supper I'll ever have there, and I hope he dies a horrible death."

GarMan

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Re: Man Up - Repealing "Don't Ask Don't Tell "
« Reply #81 on: February 05, 2010, 08:46:39 AM »
Just for fun, I googled (in bold above) your first sentence to see what popped up.  This was the first search result, Just like I figured...

http://prophetmuhammadforall.org/webfiles/fatwa/HomosexualityNLesbianis.pdf

What makes it even funnier, is that a few posts later you then quoted this:
Golly...  Is that news to you?  It couldn't be that Islam is a made-up religion based on Judhaism from 1300 years ago...  

Oops...  I must be narrow-minded again.  Sorry... 
« Last Edit: February 05, 2010, 10:19:00 AM by GarMan »
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My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them.  - Winston Churchill

Eating and sleeping are the only activities that should be allowed to interrupt a man's enjoyment of his cigar.  - Mark Twain

Nothing says "Obey Me" like a bloody head on a fence post!  - Stewie Griffin

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."  - Ayn Rand

GarMan

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Re: Man Up - Repealing "Don't Ask Don't Tell "
« Reply #82 on: February 05, 2010, 08:58:00 AM »
That may have something to do with the fact that sickle cell anemia is tied to acute rhabdomyolysis, which is one of the top four non-traumatic killers of high school and college athletes.  I need not explain why hemophilia can be deadly to a person in the military.  If you can come up with some sort of analogous reason as to why homosexuality in the military is going to endanger someone's life, then be my guest.  Otherwise, pointing out those two medical conditions is pretty much irrelevant, as there is a legitimate reason for preventing individuals with life-threatening diseases and defects from being relied upon to serve our country.  
 

Who are you to prevent these folks from joining the military?  People like you are willing to make some accommodations at the expense of others to allow homosexuals in the military, but when it comes to those genetic conditions that "you" recognize as ailments primarily because of your own perceptions and prejudices, you invent conditions and limitations that would block their service.  Why couldn't a hemophiliac fly a drone over Iraq from a base in Arizona?  Why couldn't a leper work in the motor pool?  Even with sickle cell anemia, why couldn't we come up with a job for them in the military?  Why do you discriminate so much?

If you can't see it yet, when do we stop playing social experimentation with our military?  I'd rather get back to the things that matter like getting them the ammunition and armor that they need to get the job done.  Accommodating deviants in the military is a waste of money, effort and political debate.  [The End]
« Last Edit: February 05, 2010, 09:05:50 AM by GarMan »
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My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them.  - Winston Churchill

Eating and sleeping are the only activities that should be allowed to interrupt a man's enjoyment of his cigar.  - Mark Twain

Nothing says "Obey Me" like a bloody head on a fence post!  - Stewie Griffin

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."  - Ayn Rand

AUChizad

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Re: Man Up - Repealing "Don't Ask Don't Tell "
« Reply #83 on: February 05, 2010, 09:32:34 AM »
I'm a couple pages behind, and I'll catch up later, but I think this definition needs to be presented. Because apparently it applies to some so much that they don't understand its meaning.

Quote
nar⋅row-mind⋅ed
  /ˈnæroʊˈmaɪndɪd/  [nar-oh-mahyn-did]
–adjective
1.    having or showing a prejudiced mind, as persons or opinions; biased.
2.    not receptive to new ideas; having a closed mind.
3.    extremely conservative and morally self-righteous.
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Saniflush

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Re: Man Up - Repealing "Don't Ask Don't Tell "
« Reply #84 on: February 05, 2010, 09:35:00 AM »
I'm a couple pages behind, and I'll catch up later, but I think this definition needs to be presented. Because apparently it applies to some so much that they don't understand its meaning.


I take issue with definition #3.  That is some bullshit the liberal agenda has pushed.  I know just as many narrow minded liberals.   
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"Hey my friends are the ones that wanted to eat at that shitty hole in the wall that only served bread and wine.  What kind of brick and mud business model is that.  Stick to the cart if that's all you're going to serve.  Then that dude came in with like 12 other people, and some of them weren't even wearing shoes, and the restaurant sat them right across from us. It was gross, and they were all stinky and dirty.  Then dude starts talking about eating his body and drinking his blood...I almost lost it.  That's the last supper I'll ever have there, and I hope he dies a horrible death."

GarMan

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Re: Man Up - Repealing "Don't Ask Don't Tell "
« Reply #85 on: February 05, 2010, 09:42:29 AM »
I take issue with definition #3.  That is some bullpoop the liberal agenda has pushed.  I know just as many narrow minded liberals.   

You silly conservative...  Are you still hosting that Pampered Chef party tonight?
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My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them.  - Winston Churchill

Eating and sleeping are the only activities that should be allowed to interrupt a man's enjoyment of his cigar.  - Mark Twain

Nothing says "Obey Me" like a bloody head on a fence post!  - Stewie Griffin

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."  - Ayn Rand

AUChizad

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Re: Man Up - Repealing "Don't Ask Don't Tell "
« Reply #86 on: February 05, 2010, 09:42:44 AM »
Fuck off with the bama fan comparisons.  Fuck completely off.  

But yes, if you choose something unnatural and perverted, yeah I've got questions about your ability to reason.  Sure as fuck do.
Fuck off because you can't refute this. To maintain that typical white trash dumbshit trailer park bammer, or ghetto ignorant welfare recipient, are more intelligent than even the typical homosexual, let alone the ones Jen mentioned, is narrow minded and simply ignorant.

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Your logical leaps are utterly irrational and unrelated to the topic.  The attempt to equate homosexuality with eye color was asinine.   If homosexuality is unnatural (it is, or queers wouldn't fight with themselves and attempt to resist the urges as most do) and homosexuality is a genetic defect (which you alternately claim it is and it isn't) then yes, I absolutely believe that an option to reverse it should be pursued.  
Most homosexuals fight with themselves and attempt to resist the urges??? Really? Take a poll and let's see how many homosexuals wish to be "cured". I guara-fuckin-tee you, you will get less than one percent that do. Then lets take a poll and see how many sickle-cell anemia patients wish to be cured. That's why we're curing one and not the other. In fact, you'll probably find more people that wish to have their blue eyes "cured" than their homosexuality.

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That you would attempt to point out the happy mongoloid children who don't want to be cured of their defects as evidence that gays shouldn't have the option to become normal is absolutely fucking laughable.  When my daughter was five she wanted to be a dolphin. She didn't have the mental faculties to reason beyond that.  I guess I should have let her just go be a happy dolphin, then since she had relatively the same cognitive skills as the average adult with mongoloidism. And you ignore the multitude of additional mental and physical defects that affect mongoloids.  
This is fucking laughable. Again you say that homosexuals are "mongoloids" and compare their minds to the mind of a child that is incapable of reason or common sense. Clearly most of them have more than you do.

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I've said a hundred times now that being gay, whether by choice or genetics, is of no consequence to me so long as that choice doesn't intrude into my life. Gays are not being prevented from serving in the military.  They are only being prevented from flaunting that choice (or defect).   Therefore your entire argument has ZERO merit.  None.  All they have to do is keep their deviance to themselves and they can serve their swishy little asses off.  
Wrong. If it is discovered that they are gay, not that they are wearing assless chaps and feather head dresses in the line of fire and try to rape their cohorts in the barracks, just that they're gay...they're canned. If someone spreads a false rumor about someone being gay...they're gone.

Quote
And yes, you are emotionally invested in this issue. Your emotional entanglements prevent you from having an objective viewpoint.
The fact that you've never met a gay person makes you ignorant to the issue. Clearly you view homosexuals as sub-human. This is the same narrow mindedness that extreme racists in bumfuck country towns use. They've never met a black man, so it's easy to dehumanize them.
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GarMan

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Re: Man Up - Repealing "Don't Ask Don't Tell "
« Reply #87 on: February 05, 2010, 09:44:33 AM »
I'm a couple pages behind, and I'll catch up later, but I think this definition needs to be presented. Because apparently it applies to some so much that they don't understand its meaning. 

Especially the ones that are so quick to throw it around...  Drives me nuts! 
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My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them.  - Winston Churchill

Eating and sleeping are the only activities that should be allowed to interrupt a man's enjoyment of his cigar.  - Mark Twain

Nothing says "Obey Me" like a bloody head on a fence post!  - Stewie Griffin

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."  - Ayn Rand

CCTAU

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Re: Man Up - Repealing "Don't Ask Don't Tell "
« Reply #88 on: February 05, 2010, 09:58:24 AM »
I agree 100%.

Most of you know my background; retired after 22 years of active duty in the military. I am not pro-homosexuality by any means. I do not agree with the lifestyle at all. This being said, my experience with homosexuals in the military during my career reversed the strong opposition I held against them. I was the operations chief for several years prior to my retirement. There were a couple of folks that I knew were gay. They weren't flamboyant about it; it was just who they were. I found them to be among the most dedicated, dependable, and motivated people in the unit. They easily outperformed 90% of the straight people, and I never had any trouble with them grab-assing or harassing any of the others. The concerns with shower boners, junk grabbing, or any other means of perversion are simply not valid based on my experience. Throughout the years, I dealt with numerous cases of sexual harassment, sexual assault, and other forms of criminal misconduct and not one of them involved same sex contact.

My take is this; as long as they serve honorably and adhere to the rules and regulations set forth in the Uniform Code of Military Justice, why not let them serve? We let people with less than desirable criminal records serve. We allow people that lack the basic forms of personal responsibility serve. We let muslims, wiccans, atheists, and racists (black and white) serve. I don't agree with their lifestyles either. I can't count the number of people I saw get reprimanded or discharged for severe cases of misconduct - be it theft, fraud, destruction of property, spousal abuse, child abuse, or pornography. Military life is no different than civilian life, except we get to kill people for a living. We have the same societal makeup as any other segment of civilization. The only difference is we have a code we are required to live by. A homosexual is no more of a risk to morale, order, and discipline than anyone else.


I don't think anyone is saying that they cannot do the job and should not serve at all (at least I'm not). What I am saying is that you have no reference point in which to make a good assessment of the issue. Yes, you served for 22 years, but those years served were under the current policy of DADT (or total ban). Under this policy, any gays had to be private with their sexuality. Many may have "supposed" someone was gay, but unless it was pushed in everyone's faces, no one cared because it was kept PRIVATE. Doing away with DADT would open up the flood gates for many gay activists to join just to SHOW everyone. And that would cause much upheaval.

Imagine having to deal with that. After several years it might subside, but then you still would have a small group making a larger group uncomfortable. What we have now is the privilege for any gay individual to serve in the US military as long as their personal choices do not cause any issues. With DADT, these individuals MUST focus on the job and not their sexuality. If this changes, then a whole new set of limits will need to be set. And as we have seen in public, there will always be a part of that society who will make a HUGE point of letting everyone know that they are gay. DADT should stay exactly the way it is. It has worked for many years and will continue to work just fine. Gays make up a small amount percentage of society and the military. This issue is exactly what many of us are sick of. We are being forced to recognize a bastardization of social choices as normal.

DADT is not a problem to anyone except activists. As our resident military guys have said, they have had no problems with gays while they served. Leave it alone.
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Five statements of WISDOM
1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity, by legislating the wealth out of prosperity.
2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.
3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.
5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friends, is the beginning of the end of any nation.

AUChizad

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Re: Man Up - Repealing "Don't Ask Don't Tell "
« Reply #89 on: February 05, 2010, 09:58:54 AM »
Bama man and woman are intelligent enough to know what their equipment is designed for. 

Genesis 1:28 
And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

In their sad, pathetic existence, they are replenishing the earth. 

Again, laughable.

You'd better not ever recieve a blowjob, or you're a dirty sinner. How many kids do you have Kevin? Two? I hope you've never fucked more than twice in your life...

I'm sure those scholarly bammers are mapping out their ovulation schedule, making sure they're not wasting any sacred sperm.

 :rofl:
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Tiger Wench

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Re: Man Up - Repealing "Don't Ask Don't Tell "
« Reply #90 on: February 05, 2010, 10:21:27 AM »
Female police and fire personnel demanded and got special treatment in the hiring process – less strenuous physical requirements.  Many organizations give in and accommodate demands made by folks with different strokes, things that make a lot of us roll our eyes and mutter under our breath about political correctness.  

But FINALLY a group is truly asking to be judged purely on the MERITS of their ability to serve and protect this nation.  They have not asked to be allowed to wear rainbow scarves and glitter nail polish.  They aren't even asking to be exempted from any of the same training that the other soldiers go through.  They just don't want to lose the job they have trained for in the same manner as their straight counterparts JUST BECAUSE they are “exposed” as being gay.  They want to know that their being gay will not derail their decision to serve this country and have a military career.  I cannot imagine being one of those guys who graduates at the top of his class at West Point, starts on an upward career path, garners commendation after commendation – and then loses everything – EVERYTHING – just because someone sees him go into a gay bar on his off time.  His being gay had not hindered his ability to that point, but all of a sudden, he is not fit to serve.  That is ridiculous, especially when we want to attract only the best to our all volunteer army.

The original point of discussion made it clear that in this situation, gays are not asking for special accommodation in the military - they are simply asking to be treated like everyone else DESPITE the fact that they are gay, not BECAUSE they are gay.  I simply wanted to know why this was a big deal?  We all bitch about special accommodation – there is no special accommodation here.  As Sani and PCT – both veterans with the chops to back up their positions – have BOTH said, it does not matter one bit to them as long as the guy serves with honor and does the job he is asked to do, and does it well.

I know that if my son was in a situation where his very life depended on the skill of a sniper, I would want the absolute best person for the job, not the best person who isn’t gay.  I don’t give a damn about color, religion, sexual preference, or even if he is a stupid bammer fan.  If he can shoot the eyeball out of a mouse at 1000 yards, then THAT is the man I want protecting my son.  The rest are just irrelevant, subjective qualifiers that have no impact on that sniper’s ability to protect my son.

THAT is the debate I had hoped to open up with my original post - not to set off some moralistic crusade to convince us all that teh gheys are retarded mongoloids with less reasoning ability and lower intelligence than a crack whore.  You are certainly entitled to hold your entrenched personal prejudices against gays – I am a true fan of free speech – but in this case, those prejudices prevent you from even considering the fact that a gay man might be able to volunteer and serve his country with honor and distinction.  THAT is why I called you guys narrow minded.
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GarMan

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Re: Man Up - Repealing "Don't Ask Don't Tell "
« Reply #91 on: February 05, 2010, 10:24:21 AM »
DADT is not a problem to anyone except activists. As our resident military guys have said, they have had no problems with gays while they served. Leave it alone.

BINGO!!!  But, don't forget the Democrats who are out trying to win votes for special favors... 
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My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them.  - Winston Churchill

Eating and sleeping are the only activities that should be allowed to interrupt a man's enjoyment of his cigar.  - Mark Twain

Nothing says "Obey Me" like a bloody head on a fence post!  - Stewie Griffin

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."  - Ayn Rand

Saniflush

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Re: Man Up - Repealing "Don't Ask Don't Tell "
« Reply #92 on: February 05, 2010, 10:27:01 AM »

I know that if my son was in a situation where his very life depended on the skill of a sniper, I would want the absolute best person for the job, not the best person who isn’t gay.  I don’t give a damn about color, religion, sexual preference, or even if he is a stupid bammer fan.  If he can shoot the eyeball out of a mouse at 1000 yards, then THAT is the man I want protecting my son.  The rest are just irrelevant, subjective qualifiers that have no impact on that sniper’s ability to protect my son.

Don't lie though.  You know you'ld be pretty stoked if he could shoe shop with you as well.
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"Hey my friends are the ones that wanted to eat at that shitty hole in the wall that only served bread and wine.  What kind of brick and mud business model is that.  Stick to the cart if that's all you're going to serve.  Then that dude came in with like 12 other people, and some of them weren't even wearing shoes, and the restaurant sat them right across from us. It was gross, and they were all stinky and dirty.  Then dude starts talking about eating his body and drinking his blood...I almost lost it.  That's the last supper I'll ever have there, and I hope he dies a horrible death."

Kaos

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Re: Man Up - Repealing "Don't Ask Don't Tell "
« Reply #93 on: February 05, 2010, 10:30:33 AM »
Simply saying "fail" doesn't cut it in a politically-oriented conversation.  I know it's the cool thing to do nowadays and makes you appear like you've achieved some sort of victory, but it doesn't magically attach logic to your previously unfounded statements.


You claimed that the "last time you checked," sexual proclivities were an indicator of intelligence or reasoning.  I merely asked you where you checked this at, to which you didn't answer.  If you don't have a resource or at least some sort of reasoning behind your conclusion, I can't help you there; it's certainly not my fault that you were unable to reveal where you checked this "fact" when asked.


And you checked where?  Last time I checked, you provided nothing on which to base your comments but the glib phrase (and attempt to score points) "last time I checked".   If you don't have a resource or at least some sort of reasoning behind your conclusion, I can't help you there; it's certainly not my fault that you were unable to reveal where you checked this "fact" when it was flipped back on you.

It doesn't matter why or when you flaunt something.  My point is that freedom of speech is a right of every person.  If you can flaunt your moral views (whether provoked or unprovoked), others can flaunt their views as well.  I'm pretty sure the First Amendment doesn't have a provocation requirement to it.


It most certainly DOES matter.  Timing and context are extremely important.  If I don't make any public comment until and unless the topic is raised in a public setting, I'm hardly "flaunting" anything.  I'm simply minding my own business -- which is EXACTLY what I ask of people who wish to engage in sexual perversion.  Mind their own business and keep it to themselves.  

First, a church is a private organization.  If you choose to deny someone access to your church for whatever reason, then that is your prerogative.  This discussion had nothing to do with private organizations outside of the government; it had to do with the government creating laws that altered a person's rights and privileges.


Sorry, pal.  You should know the rules.  You opened that door when you made the comment (and attempt to score points) about gays breaking down the door of my church.   You brought that into the debate, I merely answered it.  Objection overruled.  

Second, the fact that they wanted to be in the choir didn't necessarily mean they were going to flaunt anything.  Unless, of course, you fully expected them to wear an "I Suck Dick" sign around their neck while singing in the choir.  Again, your church and you can decide to do whatever you want, but there seems to be an unrealistic expectation that a homosexual only wants to do something so as to bring attention to their homosexuality.  You seem to believe that homosexuality makes a human no longer a person, but instead that they are some uncontrollable exhibition of gayness that will spontaneously erupt in radiant flamboyancy and glamorous glitter at any given moment, bringing gay shame upon you and your congregation.  Again, completely your choice, but unrealistic nonetheless.


When you know what you're talking about you have the right to open your mouth.  When you don't, perhaps you should keep it shut.  First, the homosexual couple was lesbian.  Second, they were openly affectionate during the service and after, holding hands and other outward displays to make it obvious that they were more than just friends.  Third, this "couple" was on a mission and trying to prove a point.  Their intent was never to quietly fit in and worship, their entire agenda (admitted during discussions with the preacher and the board) was to see how tolerant and accepting the church would be toward practicing homosexuals.  

You were bitching about them voicing their sexuality and how it affected your right to religion.  I'm sorry, but if you don't like someone voicing their opinion, you can turn off the TV, browse to another website, switch the radio station, etc.  Someone else's free speech does not affect your rights.  Gays aren't knocking down your door to tell you about how a penis feels in their butt while you're trying to have quiet time with Jesus.


This is, and I apologize for being blunt, but the most ignorant argument in a long line of ignorant arguments.  The "turn off the TV" defense is pathetic.  If it were as simple as that, then there should be no restriction at all on content of any kind ever.  

As much as they may annoy you, they are not altering your rights in any way by voicing an opinion.  Creating laws that prevent a person from doing something, however, is altering rights.  If you're going to deny something, then you typically have to have a legitimate reason behind the denial.  I have not heard one legitimately supported reason yet; the only reason I've heard is that homosexuality is immoral.  As I've pointed out, the morality of a person is not only a subjective opinion that differs from person to person, but it's irrelevant to the discussion of whether a person can efficiently serve in the military.
  

And as I've stated, the ability to openly express their sexual preference is also irrelevant to the issue of whether a person can serve efficiently in the military.  Therefore, there is no reason for anyone to demand the right to express such preference in a public manner.  End of story there.  

Nice straw man argument; I never set the line anywhere.  I clearly stated that the age issue was up for debate.  I then went on to use the five year old as an example of a person which we all would agree is too young to consent.  You wanted to dance around the iffy ages of 16 or 17 and derail the conversation; I'm trying to point out to you with an extreme example that age does play a part in consent.  People do mature as they get older.  At what age are they mature enough to consent?  Again, it's up for debate, but a five year old is certainly one who can not be expected to have the intellectual capacity to knowingly consent to sex.


You said five, not me.   Age does play a role in consent.  But if you're going to make those kind of choices, my point was that this too will eventually be challenged.  

Way to avoid the question asking if you view the rapist of a five year old the same as you do a gay man in a consensual, adult relationship.


And there you go again.  Five year old.  Okay, I view a rapist of a five year old as a sick predator bastard.  But what about ten?  What about twelve?  I once met a 13 year old girl in a bar in Tuscaloosa.  She looked 21 to me.  Is that okay?  

I view a child molester as someone who has something wrong with them chemically, genetically or based on preference.   I view a homosexual as someone who has something wrong with them chemically, genetically or based on sick preference.  In terms of their behaviors, no, there is no difference to me.  They are both sick.  

That does not mean, however, that the consequences for acting on those illnesses should be the same and it's a fraudulent argument on your part to equate the two.  

Speeders and drunk drivers are both violators of vehicular laws.  As such I view them both as a danger on the roadways.  But I don't advocate the same consequences.  People who speed don't bother me unless they are driving exceedingly fast or recklessly.  People who are intoxicated behind the wheel should be incarcerated and their right to drive taken away.  Same category, different consequences.  

Umm, no.  Reread my last response to you.  I quoted your portion about bigamy and stated the following immediately after:

"It personally doesn't bother me.  Everyone has their own subjective moral beliefs, and as I've mentioned before, there's no way to disprove or prove a subjective belief.  You can only accept that some people believe differently than you."

Free.  Speech.


Yes, realized you were addressing bigamy in passing after I had posted the response.  

I have no problem accepting people who believe differently.  My problem, again, comes when it is demanded that I alter MY thinking to accommodate theirs.  

Free speech my ass.  That's a bullshit blanket that's used to justify all manner of offenses.  It was never the intent for that amendment to be interpreted in the way it has been warped today.  

You can be concerned with their actions all you want, but you can not prevent a person from making a "public spectacle" by protesting laws or announcing in public that they are gay.  It doesn't matter what the vast majority of the public thinks about anything; free speech applies to everyone.


Yes, we've lost the concept of majority rule.  That's just awesome.  

And free speech my ass, again.  

As I've stated before and will state again, my intent is not to sway people's minds when it comes to topics of subjectivity.  Morals are far too subjective for me to look a person dead in the eye and say, "My morals are right. Yours are wrong."  Maybe you can do that, but I can not.  Nor have I called anyone narrow-minded or unenlightened.  I am only pointing out that for every Christian who is annoyed by a gay talking about his homosexuality, there is a homosexual who is annoyed by a Christian talking about his Christianity.

If you can point to a reason why immorality is a reason to be barred from joining the military, then that is applicable to the discussion.  Otherwise, the fact that you are annoyed by a gay person's free speech is pretty much moot.  It is a personal opinion that you hold dearly, and no one can take that away from you, but that personal opinion can't be forced upon everyone else in the form of "curing" all gays, forcing them to keep certain speech private, or barring them from the military.

And you've STILL failed to grasp the most simple concept.  

I don't give a flying fuck at a surf-boarding squirrel if they want to choke on dicks or take it up the ass and serve in the military.  That never has been and never will be the issue.  The issue is not whether they can serve -- because they already can and already do.  The issue is whether they should have the right to parade around and openly declare their gayness.  

As you've stated eloquently, being gay has no impact on their ability to serve.  If that's the case, then why is there a need to point out those who are?  

Don't ask.  Don't tell. Mind your own fucking business.  Pretty simple.  
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Re: Man Up - Repealing "Don't Ask Don't Tell "
« Reply #94 on: February 05, 2010, 10:31:59 AM »
Doing away with DADT would open up the flood gates for many gay activists to join just to SHOW everyone. And that would cause much upheaval.

CC, honest question.  DO you REALLY think that gay activists would join the military for this reason?  Have you seen what passes for extreme gay activists these days?  NO WAY do they last five minutes in basic training.  

But you know what?  If they do, they earn the right to serve.  Straight guys get cashiered for inability to pass basic, and to bond with their units.  Since they are not asking for any special accommodations – the gay guys go through the exact same training as straight guys - if a gay guy goes through basic and passes the tests, that means he has accepted the concept of “For The Good Of The Unit”.  I doubt he would then whip out his Elton John glasses and assless chaps.  He has bought into the military code and would sooner die than do anything to destroy his unit, right?  

What we have now is the privilege for any gay individual to serve in the US military as long as their personal choices do not cause any issues. With DADT, these individuals MUST focus on the job and not their sexuality.
But no matter how great a job they do, all it takes is for someone to find out they are gay, and it is all over. Who can focus 100% on their job when that nightmare is hanging over their head?  How is that fair?  And how is that a postive for this country?  I have said this more than once – an expert sonar operator does not immediately lose the ability to detect enemy subs the minute someone finds out he is gay.  Getting rid of a highly trained, beneficial member of our military because of sexual preference is short sighted.  Just like firing those Arabic translators – what a stupid move.
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Re: Man Up - Repealing "Don't Ask Don't Tell "
« Reply #95 on: February 05, 2010, 10:35:22 AM »
Fuck off because you can't refute this. To maintain that typical white trash dumbshit trailer park bammer, or ghetto ignorant welfare recipient, are more intelligent than even the typical homosexual, let alone the ones Jen mentioned, is narrow minded and simply ignorant.
Most homosexuals fight with themselves and attempt to resist the urges??? Really? Take a poll and let's see how many homosexuals wish to be "cured". I guara-fuckin-tee you, you will get less than one percent that do. Then lets take a poll and see how many sickle-cell anemia patients wish to be cured. That's why we're curing one and not the other. In fact, you'll probably find more people that wish to have their blue eyes "cured" than their homosexuality.
This is fucking laughable. Again you say that homosexuals are "mongoloids" and compare their minds to the mind of a child that is incapable of reason or common sense. Clearly most of them have more than you do.
Wrong. If it is discovered that they are gay, not that they are wearing assless chaps and feather head dresses in the line of fire and try to rape their cohorts in the barracks, just that they're gay...they're canned. If someone spreads a false rumor about someone being gay...they're gone.
The fact that you've never met a gay person makes you ignorant to the issue. Clearly you view homosexuals as sub-human. This is the same narrow mindedness that extreme racists in bumfuck country towns use. They've never met a black man, so it's easy to dehumanize them.

You should have stayed on the couch.   

You're incapable of intelligent argument.  


« Last Edit: February 05, 2010, 10:36:39 AM by Kaos »
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Re: Man Up - Repealing "Don't Ask Don't Tell "
« Reply #96 on: February 05, 2010, 10:40:44 AM »
You should have stayed on the couch.   

You're incapable of intelligent argument.  
Wow, Chad.  No intelligence.  No reasoning ability.  Guess that means you are gay.
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Re: Man Up - Repealing "Don't Ask Don't Tell "
« Reply #97 on: February 05, 2010, 10:44:19 AM »
What astonishes me is that you're unaware that Islam and Christianity comes from the same basic source.  

Much of what is in the Old Testament is also in the Koran.  Maybe you should read one or the other.

Where we differ and why we try to kill each other is that they don't accept Jesus as the Savior, only one of many prophets.  

Historical fail on your part.  
Reading Comprehension fail. Twisting and changing the point of the argument because you don't have something good to say fail.

I said, you must be reading from the wrong book.  The Koran and Bible differ dramtically.  The website cites and bases most of its arguments from the part of the Koran that differs completely from the Bible.  You know, the part about Muhammad.

Your first sentence, was found, verbatim, from that document/website.  Again, are you Muslim?  Reading from the wrong book?
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Re: Man Up - Repealing "Don't Ask Don't Tell "
« Reply #98 on: February 05, 2010, 10:46:07 AM »
CC, honest question.  DO you REALLY think that gay activists would join the military for this reason?  Have you seen what passes for extreme gay activists these days?  NO WAY do they last five minutes in basic training.  

But you know what?  If they do, they earn the right to serve.  Straight guys get cashiered for inability to pass basic, and to bond with their units.  Since they are not asking for any special accommodations – the gay guys go through the exact same training as straight guys - if a gay guy goes through basic and passes the tests, that means he has accepted the concept of “For The Good Of The Unit”.  I doubt he would then whip out his Elton John glasses and assless chaps.  He has bought into the military code and would sooner die than do anything to destroy his unit, right?  
But no matter how great a job they do, all it takes is for someone to find out they are gay, and it is all over. Who can focus 100% on their job when that nightmare is hanging over their head?  How is that fair?  And how is that a postive for this country?  I have said this more than once – an expert sonar operator does not immediately lose the ability to detect enemy subs the minute someone finds out he is gay.  Getting rid of a highly trained, beneficial member of our military because of sexual preference is short sighted.  Just like firing those Arabic translators – what a stupid move.


Team concept, T.  Team concept.  

If the majority of the team is made uncomfortable by the presence of one member, for whatever reason, the rights of the team -- particularly in a situation where each person has to rely on the man next to him to survive -- are more important than the rights of the individual.  

The military isn't Wal Mart.  

If the majority of the unit is uncomfortable or distracted because of those concerns -- and military people clearly are or we wouldn't be having this conversation -- then the unit has to come first (that's what she said).  

If most people in the military didn't care, as you've claimed, then this would not be a topic of debate.  But many obviously do, then maybe THEY are the ones who should make the decision.  They have.  The military's preference, based on what they believe is best for the morale, efficiency and cohesiveness of their fighting units is to ban homosexuals from serving.  They have been forced by Congress -- who knows nothing about what they endure daily -- to accept something they feel is a detriment so long as it's kept quiet.  

Who the fuck are you to now demand that this, too, be changed?  If the powers that be in charge of the military want it changed, then they should be the ones to do so, not some bleeding heart fucked up agenda being forced on them by outsiders.  

This isn't the playground.  Everybody doesn't get a turn.  
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Re: Man Up - Repealing "Don't Ask Don't Tell "
« Reply #99 on: February 05, 2010, 10:47:37 AM »
Wow, Chad.  No intelligence.  No reasoning ability.  Guess that means you are gay.

Apparently. 

His entire attempt at "argument" was nothing more than a series of shreikingly ignorant attempts at attack.  Zero logical connections, just a pile of frothing excrement. 
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