Just for open discussion...

[JR4AU]

How is it Tubs is so maligned by so many, yet some of the coaches of the following programs called "great"?  Other's of the listed programs recently underwent coaching changes, or will soon.  I would say, IMHO, every single team on this list underperformed in 2009 based on the talent they supposedly recruited the last 5 recruiting classes, with the possible exception of OSU, and they're a "also ran" team nationally.

Rival's Recruiting rankings of some selected programs 2005-2009, which includes RS Sr's. and their (2009 record.)

USC: 1, 1, 2, 8, 4 (8-4)

FSU: 2, 3, 21, 9, 7 (6-6)

Tenn: 4, 23, 3, 35, 10 (7-5)

Okla. 3, 9, 14, 6, 13 (7-5)

Mich: 6, 13, 12, 10, 8 (5-7)

UGA: 10, 4, 9, 7, 6 (7-5)

OSU: 12, 12, 15, 4, 3 (10-2)

Miami: 7, 14, 19, 5, 15 (9-3)

LSU: 22, 7, 4, 11, 2 (9-3)

Only OSU won a conf. title, and with a 10-2 record in the shameful Big 10.

Auburn's recruiting over that same time?  13, 10, 7, 20, 19 resulted in a 7-5 record.  When you compare Tubs record during the listed years with the other programs listed...how does it compare?  When you compare Tubs "bad losses" to the likes of Pete Carroll, and others, how does it compare?   When you compare Auburn's 2009 record with the comparative talent Chizik had to work with, how does it compare, especially when you factor in their place in the SEC relative to recruiting rankings.  Did LSU really underperform at 9-3?  Remember a #10 national class (where we currently sit for the 2010 class) still puts us 6th in the SEC.  That has to improve, but how?  Is there a marked difference in a #8 class and a #10 class?   

Finally, TX and bammer, both undefeated, play for the BCSC with the following ranked classes over the same time:

bammer: 18, 11, 10, 1, 1

UT: 20, 5, 5, 14, 5

Discussion...

[Snaggletiger]

The one that blows my mind is FSU.  4 out of 5 top 10 classes and they're just a an average ACC program.  Granted, they've shot themselves in the foot with scandals and thugs etc.  But I've heard time and time again that they're just not getting the players like they used to. 

I will tell you that if Auburns classes are in the top 10 just about every single year, they'd better be playing for conference championships on a regular basis.

[JR4AU]

The one that blows my mind is FSU.  4 out of 5 top 10 classes and they're just a an average ACC program.  Granted, they've shot themselves in the foot with scandals and thugs etc.  But I've heard time and time again that they're just not getting the players like they used to. 

I will tell you that if Auburns classes are in the top 10 just about every single year, they'd better be playing for conference championships on a regular basis.

WTF about USC and their God, Carroll?  4 top 4 classes, and an 8-4 finish, and what, 4th or 5th in the Pac 10?

While on it's face a string of top 10 classes should result in Auburn playing for the SECC, it would still take gettting through a schedule that likely included, at least, 3 other teams that also had as many top 10 classes in LSU, bammer, and UGA.  Not to mention possibly having UT or UF to contend with on the regular season schedule or in Atlanta.  I'm not suggesting being content with "competing for it"...but it's a hell of a job we have ahead of us to get to the top of the heap.   And when you look at it, it puts "underperforming" in perspective I think.

[Townhallsavoy]

WTF about USC and their God, Carroll?  4 top 4 classes, and an 8-4 finish, and what, 4th or 5th in the Pac 10?

While on it's face a string of top 10 classes should result in Auburn playing for the SECC, it would still take gettting through a schedule that likely included, at least, 3 other teams that also had as many top 10 classes in LSU, bammer, and UGA.  Not to mention possibly having UT or UF to contend with on the regular season schedule or in Atlanta.  I'm not suggesting being content with "competing for it"...but it's a hell of a job we have ahead of us to get to the top of the heap.   And when you look at it, it puts "underperforming" in perspective I think.

USC was hit with the injury bug on defense, and their true freshman quarterback is still going through a learning curve. 

They'll be back. 

[Godfather]

What this doesn't take into account, (also answering Harvey) is that coaching matters both on the field and off.  As does luck, schedule, and team cohesiveness.

We have said it before not every 4-5 star kid is all that in college.  A coach and his recruiters need to have an eye, the ability to spot talent.  You also have to have the ability to know who is going to make it on your team (I think Tubs downfall in his later years, I had also questioned is eye towards the end).

The reasons that FSU have been mediocre was Bowdens fault, he had the world by the balls in 1999 after winning the MNC.  What happened... Mark Richt went to UGA, Bobby could have had any offensive coordinator in the country, what does he do hires his idiot son.  I guarantee that FSU will compete for the ACC Championship next year and be somwhere around 10-2 - 9-3 under Jimbo Fisher.

This is going off topic, but Tubs and Bowdens undoing were very similar to a degree.  Both were way to loyal to staffs that failed them.  These staffs got complacent in their positions, they lost the fire to coach.  In the coaching profession if you aren't busting your ass 24/7 you will lose recruits, because I guarantee you.. your competitors are.

[jadennis]

USC will rebound, I'm convinced.  But they lost both their defensive and offensive coordinators, lost their entire defense to the NFL (well, 9 of them, literally), and have a true freshman finding his way.

Considering those things, it's not a surprise that they finally had an off year.  I think what you saw on offense was one reason Carroll was on his knees begging Sanchez to come back.

[jadennis]

Like HBM said, the joke on this list is Florida State.  How Bowden was not nudged out sooner is beyond me.  Sure, he built the program from scratch, but are you really going to just stand there and watch him destroy it? 

If you swapped the Florida coaches and the Florida State coaches, I bet Meyer's staff could have gone darn near undefeated in the ACC.  Mickey Andrews said before the season he thought this was one of the fastest, best defenses he's ever had there.

Each team on the list kind of has their own story.  They are all disappointing, but not without reason.  Some are missing an experienced QB, or have high rankings at skill positions, but not on the lines, or on the lines, but have no play makers.  Or have players recruited for a different system, or have new coaches installing a new system, etc.

All in all, I think your list shows that this new Auburn staff did pretty darn well considering we had a lot of the same issues as those teams who clearly had better talent and supposedly had superior coaches.

[GH2001]

Good stats JR, but remember that rivals rankings dont always tell the full tale. Attrition happens. Its hit us hard. Others as well, and then some not so much. I would like rivals to do an adjusted list of rankings every year after non qualifiers are flushed out and never actually make it to campus.

[Kaos]

We're not the only program Bama is waging war on. 

Watch for probation and investigations to hit LSU, Florida and Tennessee (and us) over the next 18 months.  Whether they can catch anything or not, the rumors and accusations will hinder recruiting.  They think this is the way to protect what they believe is theirs to own.

[No Huddle]

We're not the only program Bama is waging war on. 

Watch for probation and investigations to hit LSU, Florida and Tennessee (and us) over the next 18 months.  Whether they can catch anything or not, the rumors and accusations will hinder recruiting.  They think this is the way to protect what they believe is theirs to own.

Kaos do you really think Alabama has anything to do with these investigations? Help me to see your side of the story.

[Token]

We're not the only program Bama is waging war on. 

Watch for probation and investigations to hit LSU, Florida and Tennessee (and us) over the next 18 months.  Whether they can catch anything or not, the rumors and accusations will hinder recruiting.  They think this is the way to protect what they believe is theirs to own.

What?  You mean people fabricate bullshit stories to hinder recruiting efforts??  I've never heard of such.

[GH2001]

We're not the only program Bama is waging war on. 

Watch for probation and investigations to hit LSU, Florida and Tennessee (and us) over the next 18 months.  Whether they can catch anything or not, the rumors and accusations will hinder recruiting.  They think this is the way to protect what they believe is theirs to own.

Kaos gets it in this regard. Dont think Alabama doesn't forget who got them nailed 10 years ago. I used to have a softcopy of the actual memo Fulmer sent to Kramer. There were 2-3 of them in fact.

[Snaggletiger]

Kaos do you really think Alabama has anything to do with these investigations? Help me to see your side of the story.

Nooooo....oh shit, too late.  Well, you asked for it.

[Aubie16]

Those recruiting rankings definitely don't tell the whole story. Scout sends out a magazine every September with the updated rankings that take out the players that didn't qualify or have left the team. That is the real ranking that matters. Auburn's always dropped a ton in those rankings...especially in 2007 when we signed that great class.

Attrition hurt us bad.

[No Huddle]

Nooooo....oh poop, too late.  Well, you asked for it.

I hope it's not too bad just informative.

[jadennis]

I hope it's not too bad just informative.

I don't know if he is implying that it's damage done directly out of Saban's office (although possible), but most likely it's from "bama" media types, boosters, high school coaches that bleed Crimson and wear knee pads whenever Saban visits.  These are the types that are most likely to protect Bama's interests.  It's the same way the media protects Obama.  They somehow feel justified in protecting "their guy".

An example is one Kaos was involved in on another board.  There was this bammer "media" guy (basically just a blog "writer", if you can call him that) that would log onto an Auburn board, ask a question about a "rumor" that didn't exist, just to get Auburn fans to respond to it, then go back to his blog and discuss a "rumor" he heard on an Auburn board.  A rumor THAT HE STARTED!  That's just a tiny taste of what these guys do to help paint perception about programs, coaches, players, etc.

Another example is the lawyer (who has her picture with, probably drunk, Joe Namath on her website), that was the prosecuting attorney against Eric Smith.  She went on the radio and talked about the "gang mentality" of Auburn football players.  What?!?!  But again, it's part of trying to shape the perception of the Auburn program.

These are just the obvious, almost insignificant examples of the overall mindset of a lot of Alabama proponents in the media and in the professional world of Alabama supporters.  If this is the kind of blatant stuff that's there for us all to see, it's not hard to imagine what goes on behind the scenes or "off the record".

[No Huddle]

Thanks dude. I can see where he is coming from but I would like to think people would not stup so low. But I am amazed people everyday and not in a good way.

[GH2001]

I don't know if he is implying that it's damage done directly out of Saban's office (although possible), but most likely it's from "bama" media types, boosters, high school coaches that bleed Crimson and wear knee pads whenever Saban visits.  These are the types that are most likely to protect Bama's interests.  It's the same way the media protects Obama.  They somehow feel justified in protecting "their guy".

An example is one Kaos was involved in on another board.  There was this bammer "media" guy (basically just a blog "writer", if you can call him that) that would log onto an Auburn board, ask a question about a "rumor" that didn't exist, just to get Auburn fans to respond to it, then go back to his blog and discuss a "rumor" he heard on an Auburn board.  A rumor THAT HE STARTED!  That's just a tiny taste of what these guys do to help paint perception about programs, coaches, players, etc.

Another example is the lawyer (who has her picture with, probably drunk, Joe Namath on her website), that was the prosecuting attorney against Eric Smith.  She went on the radio and talked about the "gang mentality" of Auburn football players.  What?!?!  But again, it's part of trying to shape the perception of the Auburn program.

These are just the obvious, almost insignificant examples of the overall mindset of a lot of Alabama proponents in the media and in the professional world of Alabama supporters.  If this is the kind of blatant stuff that's there for us all to see, it's not hard to imagine what goes on behind the scenes or "off the record".

I'll say the fuckwad's name who is on Bleecher Report: Franklin Crittenden (aka The Critter Den). Worst writing I think Ive ever read. He writes garbage on BR and will then peddle it on a website - get some people stirred up and talking, then report it back on Bleecher Report as some juice or a rumor. Kaos, I, JA and several others handed him his ass once upon a time. He lives on BR and pretty much amounts to Alan Colmes in an argument - as in they hold no weight and he is weak.