Heisman Trophy Battle

jadennis · « **Reply #40 on:** December 08, 2009, 04:33:26 PM »

And using your "why not McClain" logic, you could say..."if Ingram, why not Hardesty?".

He's run for over 1,300 yards on a team that had no passing game for most of the year, and he shared carries with a freshman. I personally think he's just as dynamic of a runner as Ingram too. I'll also throw in the cheap shot about how he had 146 total yards against Auburn to Ingram's 51.

GH2001 · « **Reply #41 on:** December 08, 2009, 04:38:11 PM »

Quote from: jadennis on December 08, 2009, 04:33:26 PM

And using your "why not McClain" logic, you could say..."if Ingram, why not Hardesty?".

He's run for over 1,300 yards on a team that had no passing game for most of the year, and he shared carries with a freshman. I personally think he's just as dynamic of a runner as Ingram too. I'll also throw in the cheap shot about how he had 146 total yards against Auburn to Ingram's 51.

Ingram had 51 yards rushing against AU? Hell, give that man a beer. Then he can sing Tear in my Beer the next time he has a "hip pointer". Yeah, thats it....

AUTiger1 · « **Reply #42 on:** December 08, 2009, 06:07:59 PM »

Quote from: RWS on December 08, 2009, 02:18:06 PM

I just wonder what it is that McClain's name has never been brought up.

Kevin Scarbo says hello.

http://blog.al.com/kevin-scarbinsky/2009/12/call_me_a_heisman_homer.html

Quote

Call me a Heisman homer, but no one's better than Ro
By Kevin Scarbinsky -- The Birmingham News
December 07, 2009, 2:51PM

Stop it, you jackals.

Enough with the emails and the calls and the ``friendly'' reminders.

I just submitted my ballot for the 75th Heisman Memorial Trophy.

Finally.

Friends and family members know I'm prone to procrastination, but this is ridiculous.

As always, I tried to ignore the crowd and go my own way as I debated what it means to be the most outstanding player in college football.

In the end, I went with my eyes, through a violent case of pink eye, and my gut, and would someone please pass the Pepto?

This is what I saw, how I felt and how I voted:

1. Rolando McClain, Alabama.

2. Mark Ingram, Alabama.

3. Ndamukong Suh, Nebraska.

Call me a Heisman homer, but McClain is the best player I saw, in person or on television, regardless of position, and the ballot includes no conditions or asterisks.

The Alabama linebacker just happens to be the best player in college football on the best team in college football.

He also happens to be the best player on the better side of the ball at Alabama.

I put McClain ahead of Ingram because Alabama's defense is the main reason for its 13-0 record, its No. 1 ranking and its spot in the BCS Championship Game and because McClain is the main reason Alabama is the best defense in the nation.

I also put McClain ahead of Ingram because McClain played the last 9 1/2 games without Alabama's second-best linebacker, the injured Dont'a Hightower, while Ingram stayed fresh thanks to fab frosh Trent Richardson.

I put Ingram ahead of everyone else because no offensive player in America played a bigger role in big game after big game against better defenses than the Alabama running back.

Suh simply had the most dominating season by a defensive tackle in years.

Where's Colt McCoy, you ask?

He had a better season last year, when I voted him No. 1.

Tim Tebow?

He had a better season two years ago, when he won.

Toby Gerhart?

Great numbers, but he had just 21 more combined rushing and receiving yards than Ingram, and he didn't have the same pressure of performing all season in the middle of the national championship race.

That's my story.

What's yours?

Although I disagree with him thinking that McClain is more dominate and better than Shu, I do agree that if anyone off the bammer team deserves it, McClain does more than any of his teammates.

RWS · « **Reply #43 on:** December 08, 2009, 06:17:33 PM »

Quote from: AUTiger1 on December 08, 2009, 06:07:59 PM

Kevin Scarbo says hello.

http://blog.al.com/kevin-scarbinsky/2009/12/call_me_a_heisman_homer.html

Although I disagree with him thinking that McClain is more dominate and better than Shu, I do agree that if anyone off the bammer team deserves it, McClain does more than any of his teammates.

I usually don't like Scarbinsky, but he had some pretty good points in there. Ingram is one of the best RBs in the country. McClain is overall one of the best players in college football today, period. I don't think you could go wrong with either one, but I've just been curious over the past few days why it seems McClain's name hasn't even been mentioned. Maybe because a LB has never won it before?

ibelonginprison · « **Reply #44 on:** December 08, 2009, 06:25:12 PM »

"Toby Gerhart?

Great numbers, but he had just 21 more combined rushing and receiving yards than Ingram, and he didn't have the same pressure of performing all season in the middle of the national championship race."

I tend to think this is BS. Pressure of performing? He also didn't have a massive OL to clear out a running path. And he also only had 12 games, not 13. He also just happened to put up 300 more rushing yards, and 35-40% more touchdowns than Ingram. He carried his team on his shoulders... how's that for pressure.

So yeah, that's horseshit.

jadennis · « **Reply #45 on:** December 08, 2009, 06:26:40 PM »

Quote from: RWS on December 08, 2009, 06:17:33 PM

I usually don't like Scarbinsky, but he had some pretty good points in there. Ingram is one of the best RBs in the country. McClain is overall one of the best players in college football today, period. I don't think you could go wrong with either one, but I've just been curious over the past few days why it seems McClain's name hasn't even been mentioned. Maybe because a LB has never won it before?

McClain is good, great even, but I just don't like his (Skarbinski's) rationale.

Alabama is the best team.
The best side of the ball for them is the defense.
The best player on their defense is McClain.
McClain is the Heisman winner.

I just don't get that at all. I mean, I get it in that it makes some logical sense, but "ergo" is no reason to follow logic. Example...gaining yards is good...therefore (ergo), whoever gains the most yards is the best. That just makes no sense, even though it isn't illogical.

I lean towards a combination of "most talented" and "most valuable". To me, both McClain and Ingram are both, but because they are on the best team, and surrounded by so many other talented players, their individual value is diminished a bit.

I go with my example from a few posts ago. Take McClain out of the lineup and put in Alabama's next best linebacker. They would still be a dominant defensive team. Maybe they'd give up another 20 yards and 3 more points, but still dominant. (ditto for taking out Ingram and using only Richardson and Upchurch....the production would drop some, but they'd still be a powerful running offense).

That "boy named Suh" IS the Nebraska defense. He's surrounded by average talent, yet is able to dominate a football game the way Kobe can dominate a basketball game. One defensive player shouldn't be able to have that kind of impact on a field with 21 other guys. Suh does.

Let me add that I also don't think voting McClain is insane or anything. He's a great player. If someone thinks he is the best player they saw this year, no big deal. I just don't follow his line of thinking and arrive at the same conclusion.

RWS · « **Reply #46 on:** December 08, 2009, 06:30:22 PM »

Quote from: jadennis on December 08, 2009, 06:26:40 PM

That "boy named Suh" IS the Nebraska defense. He's surrounded by average talent, yet is able to dominate a football game the way Kobe can dominate a basketball game. One defensive player shouldn't be able to have that kind of impact on a field with 21 other guys. Suh does.

I can agree with that. Bottom line, somebody is going to be unhappy. Its a lose-lose situation for the voters. You're given a handful of highly talented players and asked to find the very best one, and usually they are all from different positions, so it makes it that much harder to compare.

ibelonginprison · « **Reply #47 on:** December 08, 2009, 06:48:48 PM »

RWS:
I won't agree with your whole post... cause you're a bammer... but I'll add this in agreement to the spirit of your post...

The sum of all the parts being "the best" does not make the individual parts "the best."

Ferrari may have the best overall lineup of sports cars... but Chevy produced the ZR1, which whooped all the Ferrari's asses at the 'Ring.

The Prowler · « **Reply #48 on:** December 08, 2009, 07:07:29 PM »

Quote from: RWS on December 08, 2009, 02:31:42 PM

I don't think they are going to take into account the level of competition.

Ummmm, Wrong Again. That will definitely be the main thing that the voters take into account. I'm guessing you haven't watched the Heisman Ceremony that many times.

RWS · « **Reply #49 on:** December 08, 2009, 07:34:33 PM »

Quote from: The Prowler on December 08, 2009, 07:07:29 PM

Ummmm, Wrong Again. That will definitely be the main thing that the voters take into account. I'm guessing you haven't watched the Heisman Ceremony that many times.

Just because they SHOULD doesn't mean they WILL.

The Prowler · « **Reply #50 on:** December 08, 2009, 10:00:41 PM »

Quote from: RWS on December 08, 2009, 07:34:33 PM

Just because they SHOULD doesn't mean they WILL.

No one said....SHOULD. They WILL. They ALWAYS DO. Do you ever watch anything other than bammer football games and recorded VHS tapes of the Bahr show?

CCTAU · « **Reply #51 on:** December 08, 2009, 10:18:24 PM »

Quote from: The Prowler on December 08, 2009, 10:00:41 PM

No one said....SHOULD. They WILL. They ALWAYS DO. Do you ever watch anything other than bammer football games and recorded VHS tapes of the Bahr show?

Stale Golden Flake chips for everyone......

I wonder if he was buried with a bag.

Kaos · « **Reply #52 on:** December 08, 2009, 10:54:40 PM »

Quote from: CCTAU on December 08, 2009, 10:18:24 PM

I wonder if he was buried with a bag.

That's no way to talk about Mary Harmon Mary Harmon.

Birmingham · « **Reply #53 on:** December 09, 2009, 09:23:23 AM »

Ingram will become the first Heisman trophy winner this Saturday.

280TIGER · « **Reply #54 on:** December 09, 2009, 09:34:30 AM »

Quote from: Vagisil on December 09, 2009, 09:23:23 AM

Ingram will become the first Heisman trophy winner this Saturday.

Other people have won the Heisman...

AuburnChopper 3.0 · « **Reply #55 on:** December 09, 2009, 09:35:12 AM »

Quote from: Vagisil on December 09, 2009, 09:23:23 AM

Ingram will become the first Heisman trophy winner this Saturday.

The first one.... Ever? and ever ever...and ever ever???

jadennis · « **Reply #56 on:** December 09, 2009, 10:49:25 AM »

Quote from: RWS on December 08, 2009, 07:34:33 PM

Just because they SHOULD doesn't mean they WILL.

If voters didn't take the level of competition into account, the five guys in NYC right now would be Case Keenum, Kellen Moore, Toby Gerhart, RB Ryan Matthews of Fresno State, and WR Freddie Barns of Bowling Green.

They do care who you play. How much different voters view the Pac 10, the Big 12, and the SEC may not be a huge factor though, compared to how they view BCS schools verses the MWC or the WAC.

GH2001 · « **Reply #57 on:** December 09, 2009, 11:11:45 AM »

www.stiffarmtrophy.com has Gerhart and Ingram in a drag race. This site is the real deal and about half of the real votes have been accounted for.

Buzz Killington · « **Reply #58 on:** December 09, 2009, 11:13:58 AM »

Quote from: GH2001 on December 09, 2009, 11:11:45 AM

www.stiffarmtrophy.com has Gerhart and Ingram in a drag race. This site is the real deal and about half of the real votes have been accounted for.

I really don't think I would want to see either in a dress.

jadennis · « **Reply #59 on:** December 09, 2009, 11:19:44 AM »

What sucks is that Suh leads by a large margin in first place votes, but doesn't appear on as many ballots overall. That's means a lot of people think he should win, but quite a few aren't even considering him because he's a defensive player.

If Ingram wins, I can't really complain, I guess he's about as worthy as the others...but I'll say this, I'll be thankful I live in Texas and don't have to work around Bammers who may very well be national champs and have the current Heisman winner. Talk about unbearable.