A Question For Those That....

[wesfau2]

Thanks.  Haven't listened to that in forever and couldn't quite place that word.

[Snaggletiger]

Thanks.  Haven't listened to that in forever and couldn't quite place that word.

You must have been too busy building a religion

[RWS]

have their lips still wrapped around Tuberville's cock... 

Why is Auburn ten players short on scholarship this year and why is the talent that's been brought into Auburn so grossly under-developed?   Why are we in this situation that took Alabama PROBATION to get into?

Thanks. 

The first line of this post shows your hand. A few posts below the particular quoted, post you talk about these recruits that were less than stellar that CTT brought in. Funny, when he was landing them and you guys needed to make an argument that CTT was doing just fine recruiting against CNS, these guys were studs under the radar and Saban was simply checking Rivals to see who had stars. It was all OK until you got your asses handed to you in the Iron Bowl. So, which one is it? They are studs under the radar when you need to make an argument, but when you need a scapegoat, they are total turds?

True, not everything is Chizik's fault. The depth he was handed isn't his fault. The talent he was handed isn't his fault. But a good coach makes it work. I hate to sound like a broken record, but other than Andre Smith and Rolando McClain, just what the hell did Saban get left with? Other than McClain, we had 3 LBs and one of them was a converted DB. One was a walk-on. Rashad Johnson was a walk-on. Javier Arenas was a 3* ATH with an offer from Alabama and FIU. You think Cory Reamer was a highly recruited stud out of HS? No. You coach what you have, and you get them to play over their heads.

True enough, Saban's first season wasn't pretty. Chizik will more than likely have a better first season than Saban did, and I highly doubt AU loses to Furman. I'm not so sure that we couldn't have done better had Major Applewhite not been our OC, but who knows. If it was somebody else, we might have only won 5 games. Maybe we would have won 10. You never know. But what I do know, is going 20-2 over the next two seasons gives me hope that we're on the right track. Chizik might do the same thing next season. I think head coaches in their first year at a program are generally given a pass. You can say whatever you want, but AU was in a MUCH better position than Alabama when Chizik took over than when Saban took over at Alabama. At least you guys had a real coach for 10 years. We couldn't keep a coach, and when we did, he would drive the program into the ground while there.

I think the problem that you're going to run into is CTT gave AU some really good years. He owned Alabama during his tenure. He was actually able to hinder the development of Alabama by being a good coach and recruiting. Much like the way Alabama is hindering AU at this point. Its easy for us to trash Shula, etc. They didn't do shit but drive the program deeper and deeper into the rut. 

[AuburnChopper 3.0]

I think the problem that you're going to run into is CTT gave AU some really good years. He owned Alabama during his tenure. He was actually able to hinder the development of Alabama by being a good coach and recruiting. Much like the way Alabama is hindering AU at this point. Its easy for us to trash Shula, etc. They didn't do shit but drive the program deeper and deeper into the rut. 

I'm sorry, but the last few years of his tenure, this was not true in my opinion.

[Saniflush]

The first line of this post shows your hand. A few posts below the particular quoted, post you talk about these recruits that were less than stellar that CTT brought in. Funny, when he was landing them and you guys needed to make an argument that CTT was doing just fine recruiting against CNS, these guys were studs under the radar and Saban was simply checking Rivals to see who had stars.

My problem was not that most of the recruits CTT brought in were less than stellar.  I felt like he was getting his share of talent but if the talent cannot get into or stay in school than it is all for naught.  CTT had made a living out of finding some diamonds in the rough to sandwich in between a few grade a players each year and the couple of years where the rough ones don't work out depth becomes an immediate problem.  At the end of the day it is fine to have some project players but you cannot live off of them.  You gotta have the depth.

[AUChizad]

True enough, Saban's first season wasn't pretty. Chizik will more than likely have a better first season than Saban did, and I highly doubt AU loses to Furman. I'm not so sure that we couldn't have done better had Major Applewhite not been our OC, but who knows. If it was somebody else, we might have only won 5 games. Maybe we would have won 10. You never know. But what I do know, is going 20-2 over the next two seasons gives me hope that we're on the right track. Chizik might do the same thing next season. I think head coaches in their first year at a program are generally given a pass. You can say whatever you want, but AU was in a MUCH better position than Alabama when Chizik took over than when Saban took over at Alabama. At least you guys had a real coach for 10 years. We couldn't keep a coach, and when we did, he would drive the program into the ground while there.

At least uat went to a bowl in 2006.

Bama went from 6-6 and a bowl loss to Oklahoma State, to 6-6 and a bowl win over Colorado. Not dramatic first year improvement.

Half the losses were still to the same teams you lost to the year before (Auburn, Mississippi State, & LSU). Except the Arkansas, Florida, & Tennessee losses (all away) were replaced with the somewhat less impressive Georgia(at home), FSU (neutral), & LA Monroe(at home) (who you beat the year before). He ended the regular season on a 4 game losing streak (plus another two consecutive losses earlier in the season).

The record is one bowl game better on paper, but a closer looks shows it really was a step backward in Saban's first year.

Contrast that with Tuberville's last and Chizik's first year.

In 2008 Auburn went 5-7. Even the score made us look better in the first two games than we did. By the 3-2 baseball score against Mississippi State, we knew we were in trouble. Vandy beats us for the first time in over 50 years, and the wheels fell completely off. The only other team we beat the rest of the year was Tennessee-Martin--and we squeaked that one out.

In 2009 Chizik has already improved last season's record with damn near the same group of kids. All common sense points to at LEAST a two game improvement BEFORE the bowl game. Those that left early far outweigh any of Tuberville's commitments that were able to come in and make a difference.

In summation, not only do I believe Chizik has done more in his first year than Saban did in his, he had inherited a team in worse shape than the one Saban did.

[War Eagle!!!]

At least uat went to a bowl in 2006.

Bama went from 6-6 and a bowl loss to Oklahoma State, to 6-6 and a bowl win over Colorado. Not dramatic first year improvement.

Half the losses were still to the same teams you lost to the year before (Auburn, Mississippi State, & LSU). Except the Arkansas, Florida, & Tennessee losses (all away) were replaced with the somewhat less impressive Georgia(at home), FSU (neutral), & LA Monroe(at home) (who you beat the year before). He ended the regular season on a 4 game losing streak (plus another two consecutive losses earlier in the season).

The record is one bowl game better on paper, but a closer looks shows it really was a step backward in Saban's first year.

Contrast that with Tuberville's last and Chizik's first year.

In 2008 Auburn went 5-7. Even the score made us look better in the first two games than we did. By the 3-2 baseball score against Mississippi State, we knew we were in trouble. Vandy beats us for the first time in over 50 years, and the wheels fell completely off. The only other team we beat the rest of the year was Tennessee-Martin--and we squeaked that one out.

In 2009 Chizik has already improved last season's record with damn near the same group of kids. All common sense points to at LEAST a two game improvement BEFORE the bowl game. Those that left early far outweigh any of Tuberville's commitments that were able to come in and make a difference.

In summation, not only do I believe Chizik has done more in his first year than Saban did in his, he had inherited a team in worse shape than the one Saban did.

And then Saban rattled off the #1 recruiting class in the nation. That has to be part of his "evaluation" for his first full year at the school. That's what Saban does. I think he is an average to good coach...but he is a great recruiter. He gets better athletes than everyone else...and then puts them in postion to win. He runs a mini NFL football team. He did it at LSU and he is doing it at Alabama. He will do it if he moves on to somewhere else.

It is a decent system...not unbeatable, but a good system.

[RWS]

At least uat went to a bowl in 2006.

Bama went from 6-6 and a bowl loss to Oklahoma State, to 6-6 and a bowl win over Colorado. Not dramatic first year improvement.

Half the losses were still to the same teams you lost to the year before (Auburn, Mississippi State, & LSU). Except the Arkansas, Florida, & Tennessee losses (all away) were replaced with the somewhat less impressive Georgia(at home), FSU (neutral), & LA Monroe(at home) (who you beat the year before). He ended the regular season on a 4 game losing streak (plus another two consecutive losses earlier in the season).

The record is one bowl game better on paper, but a closer looks shows it really was a step backward in Saban's first year.

Contrast that with Tuberville's last and Chizik's first year.

In 2008 Auburn went 5-7. Even the score made us look better in the first two games than we did. By the 3-2 baseball score against Mississippi State, we knew we were in trouble. Vandy beats us for the first time in over 50 years, and the wheels fell completely off. The only other team we beat the rest of the year was Tennessee-Martin--and we squeaked that one out.

In 2009 Chizik has already improved last season's record with damn near the same group of kids. All common sense points to at LEAST a two game improvement BEFORE the bowl game. Those that left early far outweigh any of Tuberville's commitments that were able to come in and make a difference.

In summation, not only do I believe Chizik has done more in his first year than Saban did in his, he had inherited a team in worse shape than the one Saban did.

I already said that Chizik is going to have a better first year than Saban's, save a loss to Furman or something weird like that. I think we can all agree that our loss to ULM wasn't indicitave of our staff, though. I think there were alot of things that contributed to that, however, you can't absolve the coaches completely. You can keep pointing back to ULM all you want. We are 20-2 for '08 and '09. Saban already had a pedigree for turning programs around and doing well. Chizik hasn't even came close to establishing that. He didn't do it at ISU. He's not particularly turning AU around at this point, either. FWIW, I don't think AU needs a ton of turning around. They need a real OC that will run a real offense. But thats a whole different thread......  

And your contention that Chizik inherited a worse program than what Saban inherited is absolutely ridiculous. So, you're telling me that after all those years of touting CTT's greatness, he couldn't make AU any better than a program plagued by a decade of mediocrity, coaching carousels, scandals, and probation? And he put AU in that position in a matter of two years? You're telling me that Mike Shula helped Alabama overcome Auburn, and CTT sat by helplessly? Are you telling me that an Alabama coach who was hired then fired before his first game somehow helped our program? Changing two head coaches in a matter of months somehow helped Alabama? Total bullshit. I don't know if you even believe what you say.

Saban didn't sit around and bitch, whine, and moan about what he was handed. He went in, did the best he could with it, and went out and recruited some legit talent. Thats what a good coach does. You make it work.

[AUChizad]

I already said that Chizik is going to have a better first year than Saban's, save a loss to Furman or something weird like that. I think we can all agree that our loss to ULM wasn't indicitave of our staff, though. I think there were alot of things that contributed to that, however, you can't absolve the coaches completely. You can keep pointing back to ULM all you want. We are 20-2 for '08 and '09. Saban already had a pedigree for turning programs around and doing well. Chizik hasn't even came close to establishing that. He didn't do it at ISU. He's not particularly turning AU around at this point, either. FWIW, I don't think AU needs a ton of turning around. They need a real OC that will run a real offense. But thats a whole different thread......  

And your contention that Chizik inherited a worse program than what Saban inherited is absolutely ridiculous. So, you're telling me that after all those years of touting CTT's greatness, he couldn't make AU any better than a program plagued by a decade of mediocrity, coaching carousels, scandals, and probation? And he put AU in that position in a matter of two years? You're telling me that Mike Shula helped Alabama overcome Auburn, and CTT sat by helplessly? Are you telling me that an Alabama coach who was hired then fired before his first game somehow helped our program? Changing two head coaches in a matter of months somehow helped Alabama? Total bullshit. I don't know if you even believe what you say.

Saban didn't sit around and bitch, whine, and moan about what he was handed. He went in, did the best he could with it, and went out and recruited some legit talent. Thats what a good coach does. You make it work.

I'm talking 2006 vs. 2007 for Bama, and 2008 vs. 2009 for Auburn.

[RWS]

I'm talking 2006 vs. 2007 for Bama, and 2008 vs. 2009 for Auburn.

I'm talking about your summation that Chizik inherited a worse situation than Saban did.

[Saniflush]

I'm talking about your summation that Chizik inherited a worse situation than Saban did.

I'm not sure that can be stated with certainty either way yet?

[AUChizad]

I'm talking about your summation that Chizik inherited a worse situation than Saban did.

And I'm saying that that is vague.

Long-term, yes, bama has sucked for way longer than Auburn. They have been mired in mediocrity since the two of us have been alive. You're right. Of course, this wasn't your position two years ago, but whatever.

Short-term, however...From year A to year B. Chizik inherited a worse team the year before, and did more with it the very next year.

All I'm sayin.

[ibelonginprison]

I think with Kaos's uber l337 writing skills he could come up with something better than that.  It didn't really make a point one way or another, just said "I'm a writer, piss off."


Anyway, that's all on that front.

Back on point:
Over the years I've had lots of people from other fan bases ask me why we liked CTT so much.  I always saw him as classy, composed, intelligent, and a hell of a COACH.  Not just a football coach, but a COACH.  Teaching these young players to be better people.  How he handled games, how he handled losing, how he handled winning, kneeling and not running up the score isn't a sign of weakness, it's a sign of a gentleman.  That's how I viewed CTT.  He was, and to me always will be, one of the best Auburn coaches we had.

Now, as for why people asked me why we liked him... their point was Nick Saban nailed our asses to the wall on recruiting, and he did it with out the use of a 6 game streak against your opponent.  He screamed BOOYAH and took the rug out from underneath us.  Why?  Were we lazy?  Does Nick really have that much sneaky sneaky cash to give to recruits?  Who knows, but we got beat the fuck down.

Most of us turned a blind eye to it.  I know I did, when a co-worker came to me and said "you know what, with all that Tubb's COULD offer, to still get beat by Bama in recruiting?  I'd be pissed if I were you.  Truly pissed.."  I just said "hey, CTT is a good coach, we're still winning, right?!"

Then the winning stopped, and all the sudden recruiting seemed more important.  I'll still pucker my lips for him.  I still miss the man as our head coach.  BUT... on the point that this new staff is failing miserably because they all suck?  Horseshit.  These guys rebuilt the engine on a program that had blown up bigtime, and did it in an off season.

I'm sad to see Tubb's gone, but I'm glad to have a staff that (once they get in sync with each other) will really put the right foot down on the pedal.

CTT was tired, and tired of the bullshit... I'd have dipped years ago with the hell that the administration laid on him.  I'm proud he stuck around, and given a choice I'd support him as a head coach again.  But being tired and being hounded doesn't win us ballgames, so I still have to say that we need to at least respect the fact that he did leave behind a weak program for these new coaches to work with.

[AUChizad]

I think with Kaos's uber l337 writing skills he could come up with something better than that.  It didn't really make a point one way or another, just said "I'm a writer, piss off."


Anyway, that's all on that front.

Back on point:
Over the years I've had lots of people from other fan bases ask me why we liked CTT so much.  I always saw him as classy, composed, intelligent, and a hell of a COACH.  Not just a football coach, but a COACH.  Teaching these young players to be better people.  How he handled games, how he handled losing, how he handled winning, kneeling and not running up the score isn't a sign of weakness, it's a sign of a gentleman.  That's how I viewed CTT.  He was, and to me always will be, one of the best Auburn coaches we had.

Now, as for why people asked me why we liked him... their point was Nick Saban nailed our asses to the wall on recruiting, and he did it with out the use of a 6 game streak against your opponent.  He screamed BOOYAH and took the rug out from underneath us.  Why?  Were we lazy?  Does Nick really have that much sneaky sneaky cash to give to recruits?  Who knows, but we got beat the fuck down.

Most of us turned a blind eye to it.  I know I did, when a co-worker came to me and said "you know what, with all that Tubb's COULD offer, to still get beat by Bama in recruiting?  I'd be pissed if I were you.  Truly pissed.."  I just said "hey, CTT is a good coach, we're still winning, right?!"

Then the winning stopped, and all the sudden recruiting seemed more important.  I'll still pucker my lips for him.  I still miss the man as our head coach.  BUT... on the point that this new staff is failing miserably because they all suck?  Horseshit.  These guys rebuilt the engine on a program that had blown up bigtime, and did it in an off season.

I'm sad to see Tubb's gone, but I'm glad to have a staff that (once they get in sync with each other) will really put the right foot down on the pedal.

CTT was tired, and tired of the bullshit... I'd have dipped years ago with the hell that the administration laid on him.  I'm proud he stuck around, and given a choice I'd support him as a head coach again.  But being tired and being hounded doesn't win us ballgames, so I still have to say that we need to at least respect the fact that he did leave behind a weak program for these new coaches to work with.

This. All of it.

[RWS]

Of course, this wasn't your position two years ago, but whatever.

Once again, you are full of shit.

[Greaseyweasel]

CTT was tired, and tired of the bullshit... I'd have dipped years ago with the hell that the administration laid on him.  I'm proud he stuck around, and given a choice I'd support him as a head coach again.  But being tired and being hounded doesn't win us ballgames, so I still have to say that we need to at least respect the fact that he did leave behind a weak program for these new coaches to work with.

It was time CTT to leave, hell I would have told'em to fuck off long ago. did he leave behind a weak program? Saturday said no. I attribute Saturdays win to the fact that this team decided that despite all that the coaching staff was/has/is done/doing to them said "Fuck off coaches, we need this win." 
So we are 10 short on scholly's at this moment. You need 22 players to start and 22 good backups with 22 "oh shit we need someone else in there now." guys. We have those numbers covered.

[RWS]

I attribute Saturdays win to the fact that this team decided that despite all that the coaching staff was/has/is done/doing to them said "Fuck off coaches, we need this win." 

Now, that just doesn't make any sense.

[Saniflush]

Now, that just doesn't make any sense.

Be careful wrestling with pigs.

[Argo]

Be careful wrestling with pigs.

You got a problem with bacon?

[Saniflush]

You got a problem with bacon?

Love bacon but when you wrestle with them you get dirty and the pig likes it.