Tuberville made a good point last night on ESPN....

[jadennis]

He said we could be looking at Boise State in the BCS title game (not that he thinks they should be, but that it's a real possibility).

It's week four of the season, and Boise State is #5 in the polls.

Never before has a non-BCS conference team been this high this early.  Typically, they creep in and get somewhere into the top 10 by the end of the year, but spend most of the time behind a log-jam of 1 and 2 loss BCS schools.

In 2006, when Boise made the Fiesta bowl and beat Oklahoma, they were #9 in the final poll before bowls.  However, they were #22 in week four of the season.

In 2007 when Hawaii was railroaded by Georgia, they were #10 in the final poll before the bowls.  But they were #19 in week 4.

Last year, when Utah did us all a favor, they were #7 in the final poll before the bowls.  But they were #17 at week 4.

Boise is currently #5 and sitting behind teams that are likely to have a loss by the end.   Out of LSU, Florida, and Alabama, it's not possible that 2 of the 3 will go undefeated.  Texas has Oklahoma, @ Missouri, @ Oklahoma State, and Kansas, any of which they could lose.

So, if three of the four teams in front of Boise lose, will voters just keep moving them up, like they traditionally do other programs?  They are at #5 now, which seems to indicate voters no longer have a ceiling for them.

Even if they are #5 in the computer rankings, if they are #2 in both human polls, that may be enough to keep them #2 overall.  The computers aren't nearly as strong as they used to be (ever since 2003 USC was #1 in both human polls but #3 in the final BCS).

So, could we see a Boise State - Florida national title game?  

[Argo]

So, could we see a Boise State - Florida national title game?  

If Texas doesn't go undefeated, it'll be because they lose to Oklahoma.  IF Oklahoma can knock off #2 Texas, and win the rest of their games, they'll jump BSU.

Same applies to any other one loss BCS team.  They'll move ahead of BSU.

[Snaggletiger]

8 team playoff, 8 team playoff, 8 team playoff.

Did I mention we need an 8 team playoff?

[Argo]

8 team playoff, 8 team playoff, 8 team playoff.

Did I mention we need an 8 team playoff?

Then you have the same argument for the 9th or 10th team left out.  Imagine if the season ended today.  How would you decide which 8 teams to put in?  I know there's still a lot of football left, but if this season plays out like the last few have, there won't be a big difference in the teams ranked from 6 down to 12. 

I personally believe the "plus one" is the way to go. 

[Saniflush]

Then you have the same argument for the 9th or 10th team left out.  Imagine if the season ended today.  How would you decide which 8 teams to put in?  I know there's still a lot of football left, but if this season plays out like the last few have, there won't be a big difference in the teams ranked from 6 down to 12. 

I personally believe the "plus one" is the way to go. 

If you cannot play into the top eight teams then you have no business bitching. 

Plus 1 is better than what we have now but IMO not as complete as the above possibility.

[Argo]

If you cannot play into the top eight teams then you have no business bitching. 

Let's use Auburn as example then.  Auburn is ranked 9th in the final BCS but has the exact same record as the team in 8th place.  The only difference is, the team in 8th place is a Mountain West team, whereas Auburn is in the SEC. 

Auburn fans, along with every other SEC fan (aside from Bama fans) would be pissed that Auburn was left out.  Especially considering that Auburn would likely crush the #8 team.

You still get the same dilemma.  Team B is left out because Team A won the beauty contest, not because Team A was a better choice or better team. 

[Saniflush]

Let's use Auburn as example then.  Auburn is ranked 9th in the final BCS but has the exact same record as the team in 8th place.  The only difference is, the team in 8th place is a Mountain West team, whereas Auburn is in the SEC. 

Auburn fans, along with every other SEC fan (aside from Bama fans) would be pissed that Auburn was left out.  Especially considering that Auburn would likely crush the #8 team.

You still get the same dilemma.  Team B is left out because Team A won the beauty contest, not because Team A was a better choice or better team. 

There is no difference in the scenario you laid out with eight teams and having a plus one game except there is more room for error in a plus one scenario.  You have to assume in a plus one scenario that you have the number one and two teams plaing in seperate games.  What happens when one of those teams is beat by the boisy team that is number 6-8?  There is just less room for pollster error which we all know occurs.

[Snaggletiger]

Then you have the same argument for the 9th or 10th team left out.  Imagine if the season ended today.  How would you decide which 8 teams to put in?  I know there's still a lot of football left, but if this season plays out like the last few have, there won't be a big difference in the teams ranked from 6 down to 12. 

I personally believe the "plus one" is the way to go. 

The 9th or 10th rated teams would just have to get over it.  Period.  Personally, I despise a system where you allow 120 teams to participate in a particular division (D1) but you literally tell 65-70 of them, I don't give a rat's ass if you go 13-0 and win every game by 79 points, you will NOT have a chance to play for it all.  There is always that one team on the fringe like Boise or Hawaii or Utah that feel like they should have a chance and I believe they should.  If they're worthy, they should have a chance to prove it on the field.  

A one loss SEC team should not be left out any more than a one loss Big 12 or PAC 10 or Big 10 team.  One bad Saturday should not destroy your whole season when you may in fact, be the best overall team in the nation.  The key is a better rating/ranking system, which is not influenced by a season of ESPN talking heads and networks with an agenda.  That system should allow for a team like Utah or Boise to be in the mix if they go undefeated and IF they include some BCS caliber schools in their OOC, such as Boise playing Oregon.  No system is perfect but I'd much rather listen to the #9 team cry than I would having Auburn or Georgia or Texas etc. not get a chance to prove it under our current system.    

[Argo]

The 9th or 10th rated teams would just have to get over it.  Period.  Personally, I despise a system where you allow 120 teams to participate in a particular division (D1) but you literally tell 65-70 of them, I don't give a rat's ass if you go 13-0 and win every game by 79 points, you will NOT have a chance to play for it all.  There is always that one team on the fringe like Boise or Hawaii or Utah that feel like they should have a chance and I believe they should.  If they're worthy, they should have a chance to prove it on the field.  

A one loss SEC team should not be left out any more than a one loss Big 12 or PAC 10 or Big 10 team.  One bad Saturday should not destroy your whole season when you may in fact, be the best overall team in the nation.  The key is a better rating/ranking system, which is not influenced by a season of ESPN talking heads and networks with an agenda.  That system should allow for a team like Utah or Boise to be in the mix if they go undefeated and IF they include some BCS caliber schools in their OOC, such as Boise playing Oregon.  No system is perfect but I'd much rather listen to the #9 team cry than I would having Auburn or Georgia or Texas etc. not get a chance to prove it under our current system.    

Because this reply goes against my stance on the "plus one" being the best option, I deem this as irrational rhetoric and completely dismiss it. 

[weagle251]

Because this reply goes against my stance on the "plus one" being the best option, I deem this as irrational rhetoric and completely dismiss it. 

Uh... two points for honesty? 

[Snaggletiger]

Because this reply goes against my stance on the "plus one" being the best option, I deem this as irrational rhetoric and completely dismiss it. 

Direct..to the point...no fluff.  I like it.

[jadennis]

If Texas doesn't go undefeated, it'll be because they lose to Oklahoma.  IF Oklahoma can knock off #2 Texas, and win the rest of their games, they'll jump BSU.

Same applies to any other one loss BCS team.  They'll move ahead of BSU.

Texas has lost to Kansas State twice, Texas A&M twice, and Texas Tech in the last three seasons.  They could lose to any one of about 4 teams left on their schedule.  

Plus, I don't know that teams will jump Boise, that's kinda the point.  In the past, sure thing, no doubt about it, but Boise would have been jumped over around the #12 to #15 mark and no one would have thought anything of it.

But they are being voted at #5 right now.  And what if Oregon goes on to win the Pac-10?  The way they just manhandled Cal, it could happen. They get USC at home.  

Since an 8-team playoff is out, I'm hoping for at least the plus-1 game to come about.  Honestly it's not that often that more than four teams are considered the potential number 1 anyway.  Sure, there are teams 5-15 that could surely pull an upset.  I kinda like the idea of finding a champ without potentially having a big upset.

I love the NCAA tourney, but one thing that kinda sucks about "Cinderella" is that at some point, the Sweet 16, the Elite 8, somewhere along the way, the reality of a mismatch often comes out, and some true Final Four team gets a cakewalk into the semis as Cinderella's run ends with a 97 to 54 beat down.

I don't want that.  I want the best teams playing for it all.  Not a team that won one tough game all year, gets in at #7 or #8, and then pulls off the game of their life to knock off a team that fought tough competition all year long to get to the playoff.  

With a plus-1, the final four teams will almost always be battle tested teams that deserve the chance to win two more tough games.  The exception would be a team like BYU, who this year scheduled Florida State and Oklahoma (on a neutral field), and also plays Utah and TCU.  Getting through those four teams is tougher than getting through the Big Ten in recent years.  But it should take a schedule like that to get a chance to play for it all.  Not a "one game against Oregon" schedule that Boise has this year.

[Snaggletiger]

The thing is though, with an 8 team playoff, all the teams should be legit with a proper ranking system.  And having to play 3 games to win it all, there will be no cakewalks.  I mean, you're always going to have mismatches but if a Utah or Hawaii turns out to be teh sux (Like against Georgia) you still have to win two more games against a USC or Texas or Florida.  I was really looking forward to watching Oklahoma and TT last year, both top 5 programs when they played.  Not so much after the first quarter.

[jadennis]

The thing is though, with an 8 team playoff, all the teams should be legit with a proper ranking system.  And having to play 3 games to win it all, there will be no cakewalks.  I mean, you're always going to have mismatches but if a Utah or Hawaii turns out to be teh sux (Like against Georgia) you still have to win two more games against a USC or Texas or Florida.  I was really looking forward to watching Oklahoma and TT last year, both top 5 programs when they played.  Not so much after the first quarter.

True, the ranking system would be the key to start with.  It's not so much that anyone would get a cakewalk, like you said, they still have to win two other tough games.  But it's the thought that some team like Auburn may have been sitting there at #9 with one loss (but 4 wins over ranked teams), but sat out because undefeated (and untested) Boise sits at #8. 

I don't want Cinderella in there at all unless they played their way into it (like BYU had a chance to do this year).  Because if BYU had beaten Oklahoma, Florida State, Utah, and TCU this year....they wouldn't even be a real "Cinderella", just a solid, respectable football team that had proven their worth. 

One game proves nothing (ie, Boise beating Oregon).  I know you're not arguing against this or anything, I'm just rambling.

[Saniflush]

Well a one loss Auburn or anyone else sitting at nine depends on when that loss occurred.  Get your loss early and you are number eight or better.  Late and you are boned.  At the end of the day what I am looking for is a system that ENSURES that ANY division 1 team who has done what was expected of them ( win all their games) does not get snubbed.  Whether it's an Auburn, an Oregon, Hawaii, or a Boise St.

We all make a big deal about the lower third of division one teams and how they do not stack up based on schedule.  Most of this banter is warranted however at the end of the day even Hawaii deserved the shot they had at UGA a couple of years ago.

[Kaos]

How about you forget rankings altogether.

Eight teams play in seven bowls.  Orange, Sugar, Rose and Fiesta swap out title game just like now. Add Outback, Cotton and Peach.  

Four venues get first round. Two venues get second. Then one title game.

The rest of the bowls go on as before. Consolation prizes.  

How do you get the 8?

League champions from the SEC, Pac-10, ACC, BIg10, Big 12 and Big East.

Two at large.  Can come from any division, including the leagues with a champ in the mix.

At large chosen by a selection committee.

It's easy.

[jadennis]

How about you forget rankings altogether.

Eight teams play in seven bowls.  Orange, Sugar, Rose and Fiesta swap out title game just like now. Add Outback, Cotton and Peach. 

Four venues get first round. Two venues get second. Then one title game.

The rest of the bowls go on as before. Consolation prizes. 

How do you get the 8?

League champions from the SEC, Pac-10, ACC, BIg10 and Big East.

Three at large.  Can come from any division, including the leagues with a champ in the mix.

At large chosen by a selection committee.

It's easy.

I like it all except the conference champs being automatic.  I understand winning a conference often means something, but occasionally it doesn't.

I want the best 8 teams, no matter what.  I don't want two 10-2 teams sitting out because an 8-4 Pitt happen to win the Big East that year.

Get the best 8 teams, period.  If Utah is one, great, let them in.  But if 3 of the best 8 are from the SEC and the best team from the Big East is ranked #24, then they simply miss out.

Of course, conference commissioners and school presidents would never agree to something where their conference wasn't guaranteed participation, but we're not talking reality anyway.  I'm just saying, if I could set it up any way at all, I would want the best 8, no matter the combination of where they come from.

[AUChizad]

How about you forget rankings altogether.

Eight teams play in seven bowls.  Orange, Sugar, Rose and Fiesta swap out title game just like now. Add Outback, Cotton and Peach.  

Four venues get first round. Two venues get second. Then one title game.

The rest of the bowls go on as before. Consolation prizes.  

How do you get the 8?

League champions from the SEC, Pac-10, ACC, BIg10, Big 12 and Big East.

Two at large.  Can come from any division, including the leagues with a champ in the mix.

At large chosen by a selection committee.

It's easy.

This is exactly my model.

I'd say that the champion of each of the big six are worthy contenders. Then the whole season truly is the "tournament" as defenders of the current system like to falsely claim.

So what if the Big East is down one year? Their best team deserves a shot at an 8 team championship before a second team from the SEC even, since they lost fair and square during the season.

The two at-large ensures teams like Houston and Boise this year at least get a chance. Rankings could determine the seeding.

[Townhallsavoy]

How about you forget rankings altogether.

Eight teams play in seven bowls.  Orange, Sugar, Rose and Fiesta swap out title game just like now. Add Outback, Cotton and Peach.  

Four venues get first round. Two venues get second. Then one title game.

The rest of the bowls go on as before. Consolation prizes.  

How do you get the 8?

League champions from the SEC, Pac-10, ACC, BIg10, Big 12 and Big East.

Two at large.  Can come from any division, including the leagues with a champ in the mix.

At large chosen by a selection committee.

It's easy.

I've been saying this for years.  That exact scenario.  

Conference play and rivalry games remain just as important.  The "BCS" teams are still intact.  Hell, even designate the first round to include traditional bowl matchups.  The Rose Bowl will ALWAYS get Big 10 vs Pac 10 in the first round.  

But fuck Notre Dame.  If they don't want to join a conference, they get just as much of a shot as Boise St.

[Snaggletiger]

This^^^^and That^^^^