Looks like it's gonna be Todd...

[AuburnChopper 3.0]

I didn't see any of that mentioned in the thread. There was a brief derailment about Chizik, but never was anything along the lines of "Chiz is the man and all is right with the world" was said. "Our" side of the debate is mostly bitching about Kaos's incessant bitching.

Hell, Prowler hadn't even stepped foot in this thread yet, as far as I can remember...

It's cool.  It's always easier to sit out the debate and then mock what you don't understand.

[Kaos]

I didn't see any of that mentioned in the thread. There was a brief derailment about Chizik, but never was anything along the lines of "Chiz is the man and all is right with the world" was said. "Our" side of the debate is mostly bitching about Kaos's incessant bitching.

Hell, Prowler hadn't even stepped foot in this thread yet, as far as I can remember...

And I must remind you again, that my opinion isn't "bitching" just because you say so.  There was no "bitching" just an observation.

You and Chopper.  Again.  Look beside you.  Think about that for a moment.  You and Chopper running a tag team.  Is that really who you are?  

[Kaos]

Here's a thought to ponder...
  

WHAT offensive line?  We have like three and a half guys ready to start, right?

Seems to me that rhat thar is a damned big "IF" ...

Yeah, but we're loaded with talent with speed, remember?   

We've got problems on offense.  That's a given.  Maybe slow, non-athletic, freezer-pop Chris Todd is the answer.  If he is, I'm no longer sure I understand the question.

[RWS]

Impossible rws.  

Either the coaches failed or star ratings are bullshit.  It's black and white.  Impossible that star ratings for one player were inflated, while the coaches failed another highly-rated prospect.  That's just illogical and unrealistic.  

I know what you're saying, and some of our fans are the same way too. I am guilty from time to time. I will stand up for a guy that someone says isn't all that great if I really believe he will pan out. Not so much for a kid that I think will flop. For the record, I stood up in Star Jackson's defense when we signed him. On the other board, metafour told me that Burns' career would amount to way more than Star Jackson's ever would. I'm not really sure exactly what thats supposed to mean now, but whatever. Nonetheless, I told him I thought he was wrong. Looks like its going to be a push at this point.

Point being, as you and I both know, sometimes a kid just doesn't work out. Recruiting isn't an exact science, and unless you have a crystal ball, you just never really 100% know. Sometimes a kid doesn't pan out because he doesn't have decent coaching to help him along at the next level. Sometimes a kid doesn't have it upstairs to be able to pick up the complexity of the game at the next level. I mean, the coaches don't recruit a kid because they know he will suck and want him to do horribly. Sometimes it just doesn't work out. Its nobody's fault, its just something that happens. Its a risk on both sides. I know its human nature to want to point the finger at somebody, but damn. You just want to make sure your coaches know how to properly evaluate talent.

[AuburnChopper 3.0]

And I must remind you again, that my opinion isn't "bitching" just because you say so.  There was no "bitching" just an observation.

STFU with the lies already.  You are a bitchy fucker.  End of story.

You and Chopper.  Again.  Look beside you.  Think about that for a moment.  You and Chopper running a tag team.  Is that really who you are?  

This is a tactic that is only making you look weaker and weaker.  Okay, so, you and Greasy..  Look beside you... You and greasy.  Congrats.

...and just because Chizad has a similar opinion doesn't make us the same.

Completely and totally weak response from you.

Yeah, but we're loaded with talent with speed, remember?

Again, you look stupid saying this.  Yes, we're thin at OL, as far as depth is concerned.  We've got plenty of speed and talent at many positions.  You saying we don't, again is just you being the anti-factual rebel you try so hard to be.  

We've got problems on offense.  That's a given.  Maybe slow, non-athletic, freezer-pop Chris Todd is the answer.  If he is, I'm no longer sure I understand the question.

Again, your opinion.  It's NOT a given.  You never understood shit about the question as far as QB.  You've done nothing but contradict yourself and prove how ignorant you are time and time again in this thread as it relates to our talent and the QB situation.

[wesfau2]

I know what you're saying, and some of our fans are the same way too. I am guilty from time to time. I will stand up for a guy that someone says isn't all that great if I really believe he will pan out. Not so much for a kid that I think will flop. For the record, I stood up in Star Jackson's defense when we signed him. On the other board, metafour told me that Burns' career would amount to way more than Star Jackson's ever would. I'm not really sure exactly what thats supposed to mean now, but whatever. Nonetheless, I told him I thought he was wrong. Looks like its going to be a push at this point.

Point being, as you and I both know, sometimes a kid just doesn't work out. Recruiting isn't an exact science, and unless you have a crystal ball, you just never really 100% know. Sometimes a kid doesn't pan out because he doesn't have decent coaching to help him along at the next level. Sometimes a kid doesn't have it upstairs to be able to pick up the complexity of the game at the next level. I mean, the coaches don't recruit a kid because they know he will suck and want him to do horribly. Sometimes it just doesn't work out. Its nobody's fault, its just something that happens. Its a risk on both sides. I know its human nature to want to point the finger at somebody, but damn.

Which is more likely:

1) BOTH Caudle and Burns were poorly evaluated as recruits and neither is capable of leading an SEC team;

or

2) The previous administration did shit for preparing them to play.

[AuburnChopper 3.0]

I know what you're saying, and some of our fans are the same way too. I am guilty from time to time. I will stand up for a guy that someone says isn't all that great if I really believe he will pan out. Not so much for a kid that I think will flop. For the record, I stood up in Star Jackson's defense when we signed him. On the other board, metafour told me that Burns' career would amount to way more than Star Jackson's ever would. I'm not really sure exactly what thats supposed to mean now, but whatever. Nonetheless, I told him I thought he was wrong. Looks like its going to be a push at this point.

Point being, as you and I both know, sometimes a kid just doesn't work out. Recruiting isn't an exact science, and unless you have a crystal ball, you just never really 100% know. Sometimes a kid doesn't pan out because he doesn't have decent coaching to help him along at the next level. Sometimes a kid doesn't have it upstairs to be able to pick up the complexity of the game at the next level. I mean, the coaches don't recruit a kid because they know he will suck and want him to do horribly. Sometimes it just doesn't work out. Its nobody's fault, its just something that happens. Its a risk on both sides. I know its human nature to want to point the finger at somebody, but damn.

Agree with all of this.  Let me ask you this though.

If Star Jackson was injured all of last year, and due to the fact there was no capable alternative, he played, and looked terrible, would you definitively count him out?   At the same time, if you KNEW that the previous coaching staff did nothing to help him, got fired in the end, and he had surgery that by all accounts fixed the injury, would you still consider him the same lame duck if he WINS the pre-season QB competition to retain his starter's role?

[Kaos]

Which is more likely:

1) BOTH Caudle and Burns were poorly evaluated as recruits and neither is capable of leading an SEC team;

or

2) The previous administration did shit for preparing them to play.

It's statistically most likely that one was overrated star-wise and one was poorly coached.  The chance that both are equal in talent and potential is slim. 

On another note, why is Chopper still talking?  I'm tired having to scroll past his "User is ignored" box. 

Can you get the administration to change it to read "Doobie doobie penguins" so it will make as much sense as his normal replies and I can laugh about it? 

[AuburnChopper 3.0]

It's statistically most likely that one was overrated star-wise and one was poorly coached.  The chance that both are equal in talent and potential is slim.

I think both were poorly coached.  That's not statistically out of it, and I think that's where Wes was going with it.

How you come up with what you said, "statistically" is something that probably would have sent Statiger into a tailspin.  

On another note, why is Chopper still talking?  I'm tired having to scroll past his "User is ignored" box.  

Can you get the administration to change it to read "Doobie doobie penguins" so it will make as much sense as his normal replies and I can laugh about it?  

God, I wish you could only see how stupid that sounds and looks at this point.

[RWS]

Which is more likely:

1) BOTH Caudle and Burns were poorly evaluated as recruits and neither is capable of leading an SEC team;

or

2) The previous administration did shit for preparing them to play.

Honestly, I have no fucking idea. I really know absolutely nothing about Caudle. As for Burns, he seems to be an athletic guy. He put up some ridiculous numbers in HS, on the ground and in the air. Of course, doesn't automatically translate to the field in college. Perhaps he simply couldn't adapt to the game at the college level. Maybe he had no development. I don't think we will ever know what exactly happened with him. Hell, Burns started 3 games I think last season. I can't believe they would just throw him out there with NO coaching whatsoever.

[RWS]

Agree with all of this.  Let me ask you this though.

If Star Jackson was injured all of last year, and due to the fact there was no capable alternative, he played, and looked terrible, would you definitively count him out?   At the same time, if you KNEW that the previous coaching staff did nothing to help him, got fired in the end, and he had surgery that by all accounts fixed the injury, would you still consider him the same lame duck if he WINS the pre-season QB competition to retain his starter's role?

I would excuse some lame duck passes, and things associated with his shoulder. Making throws to the wrong receiver has nothing to do with a shoulder. Making throws to non-existant receivers has nothing to do with a shoulder. Underthrowing a WR does. Being off on your accuracy by a few yards does. But there are lots of things such as mechanics, decision making, etc that has nothing to do with a hurt shoulder. If his fundamentals are bad, it wouldn't matter hurt shoulder or not. Unless he gets that fixed with some coaching or something, he can have the strongest arm in the world. Doesn't matter if he can't use it correctly.

As far as your second question, I would say he's going to have to show me something on the field before I got excited. If he never got any coaching from the previous coaches, then he's basically a freshman this year in that sense. Its going to take him half the season to get with it, probably. I look at yall's situation the same way I look at Alabama's. We're OK with McElroy, no real worries there. But behind him, if McCarron can come in as a true frosh and win the backup job, that doesn't necessarily tell me that he is a world beater. It tells me we have some severe talent issues behind our starter. I think thats what Kaos is trying to say as well.

[AuburnChopper 3.0]

I would excuse some lame duck passes, and things associated with his shoulder. Making throws to the wrong receiver has nothing to do with a shoulder. Making throws to non-existant receivers has nothing to do with a shoulder. Underthrowing a WR does. Being off on your accuracy by a few yards does. But there are lots of things such as mechanics, decision making, etc that has nothing to do with a hurt shoulder. If his fundamentals are bad, it wouldn't matter hurt shoulder or not. Unless he gets that fixed with some coaching or something, he can have the strongest arm in the world. Doesn't matter if he can't use it correctly.

As far as your second question, I would say he's going to have to show me something on the field before I got excited. If he never got any coaching from the previous coaches, then he's basically a freshman this year in that sense. Its going to take him half the season to get with it, probably. I look at yall's situation the same way I look at Alabama's. We're OK with McElroy, no real worries there. But behind him, if McCarron can come in as a true frosh and win the backup job, that doesn't necessarily tell me that he is a world beater. It tells me we have some severe talent issues behind our starter. I think thats what Kaos is trying to say as well.

Agreed.   ..and Kaos is entitled to his opinion.  It's his delivery to the masses that gets him into it with most of us.  Hell, he can't even keep me off ignore for three seconds.

As far as what I was trying to point out in my question.  Things can change.  There is no doubt that Todd was a miserable scene last year.  However, I HAVE to think (it's just common sense) that he got worse over the course of the season due to injury, no coaching to fix mistakes he was making and frustration took over. Hell, he didn't know if he was going to play quarter to quarter last year, let alone game to game.  The only things that we were saying is that it IS possible for him to have a renewed chance with a fixed arm and an attentive staff that works with him.  He obviously won the competition over other QB's that were doing well by all accounts in the spring AND summer.

To call this a failure or miserable is premature.  That's the point.

[Kaos]

We're OK with McElroy, no real worries there.

You have no idea whether you'll be okay or not.  You guys have Prowler Choppered your dicks bloody raw because he threw one pass against a disinterested Auburn team and finished second at some random ass quarterback camp.

He's never been the guy.  You have no idea how or if he will perform in that role (note the proper usage). 

A year ago, Auburn was the chic pick to win the West because everybody thought Kodi Burns was going to step in and have a smooth transition to the starting role.  How'd that work out for us? 

Granted we screwed the pooch from day one when Franklin stuck his dick up Chris Todd's ass and wouldn't pull out.  Blew Kodi's confidence and essentially trashed the season.  You guys won't do that, but the fact remains that you still have no idea at all how McElroy will be able to handle the position. 

Do this for me.  Look back at the SEC over the last 20 years.  List for me the QBs that came in to replace an established starter with virtually no experience of their own and lit the league up. 

Your list will look much like this: 












...

[Townhallsavoy]

Chris Todd is Domino's pizza when your recipe from Emeril's cookbook doesn't work.  

He's the movie you purchase from Charter On Demand when you realize your favorite show is a rerun.  

He's the 150 pound 6 after the 110 8 decides to go home with another guy.  

Chris Todd is not John Elway or Dan Marino.  He didn't come back from surgery as a future NFL QB.  

The fact that Kodi Burns is working with the receivers should tell you a lot.  We're not implementing a two QB system for a reason.  Kodi Burns flat out sucks at QB, and he puts us at a disadvantage in ball games.  This is why he's not even competing for the 2nd string job.  

Neil Caudle has done nothing of merit since he arrived.  Wait...I'm sorry, he completed a long pass while running to his right in the A-Day game.  He's obviously not the "answer".  

So what do we have left?  Chris Todd and a freshman.  The Chizik-Malzahn QB meeting probably ended with "well, I guess it could be worse."

[Kaos]

Chris Todd is Domino's pizza when your recipe from Emeril's cookbook doesn't work.  

He's the movie you purchase from Charter On Demand when you realize your favorite show is a rerun.  

He's the 150 pound 6 after the 110 8 decides to go home with another guy.  

Chris Todd is not John Elway or Dan Marino.  He didn't come back from surgery as a future NFL QB.  

The fact that Kodi Burns is working with the receivers should tell you a lot.  We're not implementing a two QB system for a reason.  Kodi Burns flat out sucks at QB, and he puts us at a disadvantage in ball games.  This is why he's not even competing for the 2nd string job.  

Neil Caudle has done nothing of merit since he arrived.  Wait...I'm sorry, he completed a long pass while running to his right in the A-Day game.  He's obviously not the "answer".  

So what do we have left?  Chris Todd and a freshman.  The Chizik-Malzahn QB meeting probably ended with "well, I guess it could be worse."

You fucking doom and gloomer. 

Nice analogies, BTW.  I approve.

[AuburnChopper 3.0]

You have no idea whether you'll be okay or not.  
He's never been the guy.  You have no idea how or if he will perform in that role (note the proper usage).  


  

Do this for me.  Look back at the SEC over the last 20 years.  List for me the QBs that came in to replace an established starter with virtually no experience of their own and lit the league up.  

Tim Tebow?  Worked out pretty good for the Gators.

Matt Stafford?  Worked out pretty good for the Dawgs.

Oh, and I love the fact Kaos is telling someone else they couldn't possibly know something in advance...  Brilliant.

[AuburnChopper 3.0]

Chris Todd is Domino's pizza when your recipe from Emeril's cookbook doesn't work.  

He's the movie you purchase from Charter On Demand when you realize your favorite show is a rerun.  

He's the 150 pound 6 after the 110 8 decides to go home with another guy.  

Chris Todd is not John Elway or Dan Marino.  He didn't come back from surgery as a future NFL QB.  

The fact that Kodi Burns is working with the receivers should tell you a lot.  We're not implementing a two QB system for a reason.  Kodi Burns flat out sucks at QB, and he puts us at a disadvantage in ball games.  This is why he's not even competing for the 2nd string job.  

Neil Caudle has done nothing of merit since he arrived.  Wait...I'm sorry, he completed a long pass while running to his right in the A-Day game.  He's obviously not the "answer".  

So what do we have left?  Chris Todd and a freshman.  The Chizik-Malzahn QB meeting probably ended with "well, I guess it could be worse."

Nice.  Agreed.   Too bad Caudle and Burns didn't do more with the coachi...oh wait.  What coaching?  ...

This is good news for Tyrik and Trotter though.  Could be a great battle to watch during and after the season going into next year.

[War Eagle!!!]

Chris Todd is Domino's pizza when your recipe from Emeril's cookbook doesn't work.  

He's the movie you purchase from Charter On Demand when you realize your favorite show is a rerun.  

He's the 150 pound 6 after the 110 8 decides to go home with another guy.  

Chris Todd is not John Elway or Dan Marino.  He didn't come back from surgery as a future NFL QB.  

The fact that Kodi Burns is working with the receivers should tell you a lot.  We're not implementing a two QB system for a reason.  Kodi Burns flat out sucks at QB, and he puts us at a disadvantage in ball games.  This is why he's not even competing for the 2nd string job.  

Neil Caudle has done nothing of merit since he arrived.  Wait...I'm sorry, he completed a long pass while running to his right in the A-Day game.  He's obviously not the "answer".  

So what do we have left?  Chris Todd and a freshman.  The Chizik-Malzahn QB meeting probably ended with "well, I guess it could be worse."

A++ post...

And for the record...I have said for a LONG time on this very intrawebs that Burns is not a Div 1 QB. A great athlete...but not a QB...

[The Prowler]

With Caudle, it was hard to coach him when he's sitting on the sidelines with an injury some of the times.  I don't feel that Caudle was overrated, I think it was more due bad luck with injuries and due to the lack of coaching....with Kodi, I feel that he just doesn't have it upstairs to play QB at the college level, now in HS he was a Big Cat, but when the playbook is expanded by 1000 pages that's a different story.  And Kaos, if you actually watched the games, last year, you would've been able to see Todd make the reads but that he just didn't pull the trigger to the open WR or TE...now you should know why he didn't pull the trigger, because he knew that he couldn't get the ball there before it was picked off.  There was one play, of many, that come to mind...Tommy Trott was running a crossing pattern and was about 15-20 yards downfield going towards the sidelines, he was wideopen, and Todd looked right at him, but he never threw it, instead he took the sack.  It seems to me that now he'll be able to make those crossing pattern throws.  But, I guess everyone should be "We're going to Hell in a handbasket, because Todd is the starter" instead of "He's the best QB that we have, that isn't a true freshman, let's just hope he doesn't do as bad as last year."

[War Eagle!!!]

With Caudle, it was hard to coach him when he's sitting on the sidelines with an injury some of the times.  I don't feel that Caudle was overrated, I think it was more due bad luck with injuries and due to the lack of coaching....with Kodi, I feel that he just doesn't have it upstairs to play QB at the college level, now in HS he was a Big Cat, but when the playbook is expanded by 1000 pages that's a different story.  And Kaos, if you actually watched the games, last year, you would've been able to see Todd make the reads but that he just didn't pull the trigger to the open WR or TE...now you should know why he didn't pull the trigger, because he knew that he couldn't get the ball there before it was picked off.  There was one play, of many, that come to mind...Tommy Trott was running a crossing pattern and was about 15-20 yards downfield going towards the sidelines, he was wideopen, and Todd looked right at him, but he never threw it, instead he took the sack.  It seems to me that now he'll be able to make those crossing pattern throws.  But, I guess everyone should be "We're going to Hell in a handbasket, because Todd is the starter" instead of "He's the best QB that we have, that isn't a true freshman, let's just hope he doesn't do as bad as last year."

Wrong. I get tired of people saying he didn't have it upstairs. The dude just wasn't a SEC QB. Plain and simple. He just wasn't good enough. Play him in the wildcat and let him run arouns and make people miss him...it's what athletes do. No more...no less...