Lawyers

[Townhallsavoy]

I'm thinking about becoming one, but I have some questions before I delve into craziness of LSATs, law school, and Bar exams. 

If you feel inclined, would you please answer the following questions for me?

1.  I understand that an exhorbitant amount of money must be borrowed from the government in order to afford law school.  Considering that lawyers can make up to $100k+ a year, is it difficult to pay off the loans and live a normal lifestyle (not always on a super tight budget) with your family and friends?

2.  How many hours are you required to work per week?  A few friends of mine have said 60+ hours a week.  Does this include weekends?  I understand that lawyers work "billable hours".  Is it possible to just work three days a week and knock out most of those hours, or do most firms give you a schedule? 

Is there a way to work only 40-50 hours a week and have weekends off?

I know this sounds like a question coming from a lazy man, but consider that I'm a teacher, I CAN go home at 3pm every day and have weekends and holidays off.  I might be able to endure teaching in a classroom if it means not working my life away. 

3.  With the job market the way it is now, do you think it's worth getting a law degree right now?  I've read that it's very difficult to get a good job right now unless you graduate in a top percentile.

4.  Do you like your job?  Is it monotonous? 

5.  If lawyers were paid $40k a year instead of the average $80k, would you have still chosen to be a lawyer?

Any other suggestions or words of advice?

[Kaos]

I'm thinking about becoming one, but I have some questions before I delve into craziness of LSATs, law school, and Bar exams. 

If you feel inclined, would you please answer the following questions for me?

1.  I understand that an exhorbitant amount of money must be borrowed from the government in order to afford law school.  Considering that lawyers can make up to $100k+ a year, is it difficult to pay off the loans and live a normal lifestyle (not always on a super tight budget) with your family and friends?

2.  How many hours are you required to work per week?  A few friends of mine have said 60+ hours a week.  Does this include weekends?  I understand that lawyers work "billable hours".  Is it possible to just work three days a week and knock out most of those hours, or do most firms give you a schedule? 

Is there a way to work only 40-50 hours a week and have weekends off?

I know this sounds like a question coming from a lazy man, but consider that I'm a teacher, I CAN go home at 3pm every day and have weekends and holidays off.  I might be able to endure teaching in a classroom if it means not working my life away. 

3.  With the job market the way it is now, do you think it's worth getting a law degree right now?  I've read that it's very difficult to get a good job right now unless you graduate in a top percentile.

4.  Do you like your job?  Is it monotonous? 

5.  If lawyers were paid $40k a year instead of the average $80k, would you have still chosen to be a lawyer?

Any other suggestions or words of advice?

Get your masters and get into the community college system. 

You'll work 35 hours a week, have summers off (if you want) and have time to have an entire other career should you desire. 

Move up just a little to something like division chair or whatever and you'll bring in 80k. 

I know teachers without doctorates in the CC system who bring home six figures. 

It's the best racket going.

Seriously.

[wesfau2]

Don't do it.

Seriously.

EDIT:  I'll flesh out my response more fully:

1)  Unless you are a superstar in your class (and your school has a history of churning out quality lawyers), you won't sniff 100K in B'ham for a while.  As for your loans, your mileage may vary, but I'm paying out $1K a month in loan payments.  It puts quite a crimp in the take-home pay.  

2)  This will vary from job to job.  Typically, the more money you make (large firm) the more you will work (80 hrs is not unheard of).  Lower paying jobs (gov't positions) require less office time.  In theory, you ought to be able to meet your hours and leave whenever you want.  In practice, you won't be able to bill that much per day.  There is so much administrative bullshit that eats your time, you will need probably need the full week, if not more.

Some firms will take associates that only want to be associates.  They simply make it clear that you will never be nominated for partnership.  These jobs aren't as stable.  In lean times, these guys are the first out the door.

3) Very tough job market.  

4) Sometimes.  Just like any job, there is a lot of bullshit that comes with it.  

5) It's not nearly as lucrative a job as you seem to think.

My statements here are reflective of my own experience.  Others' experience may vary.  I am painting a pretty bleak picture because I know more unhappy lawyers than happy ones.  Unless you have a burning passion for it, don't do it.  And then only do it if you have the opportunity to work closely with a lawyer for a while prior to enrolling in school.

All of that said, my current job as in-house counsel is fucking great.  No billable hours, flexible schedule and a great boss...beats the shit out of any firm job I ever had.

[Snaggletiger]

Don't do it.

Seriously.

Listen to this man.  He's pre med.

[AUJarhead]

Listen to this man.  He's pre med.

I thought he was pre law.

[Buzz Killington]

I thought he was pre law.

Meh.  Whatever.

Anyway...law degrees are for suckers.

[Snaggletiger]

Meh.  Whatever.

Anyway...law degrees are for suckers.

Consider yourself sued and served.

[BZ770]

One of my lawyer friends works most weekends and makes around 90.  I own the otherhand work for a big oil company make around what he does and I work many nights weekends and holidays, but I also don't owe any student loans.

[Godfather]

All of that said, my current job as in-house counsel is fucking great.  No billable hours, flexible schedule and a great boss...beats the shit out of any firm job I ever had.

Plus an expense account that affords items such as nubian dances.

[Catphish Tilly]

Get your masters and get into the community college system. 

This.

Whether it works out as well as I would like or not, it's what I am currently doing.  UAB's Alternative Master's Program is fairly accommodating for students who also work as well (night classes) and since your currently a teacher I'm sure the course offeriengs are even more so.

[AWK]

Don't do it.  I just graduated from law school and took the bar, and will be honest with you and tell you there are much better choices.

[Godfather]

Good Money, flexible hours...can you dance on a pole?

Seriously though...two words "Outside Sales" talk to AUtailgating.

[Townhallsavoy]

Thanks for the responses. 

So far, it seems like most people are against becoming a lawyer.  This isn't any different from my friends who are in law school. 

It does interest me, but I think the prestige of going to law school and earning the degree is influencing my desire. 

I'm definitely going to look into the community college idea.  I've always wanted to teach at the collegiate level, but I've never liked the idea of spending my entire life publishing bullshit just to keep a teaching job. 

We'll see what happens over the next few months.

[AUTiger1]

Thanks for the responses. 

So far, it seems like most people are against becoming a lawyer.  This isn't any different from my friends who are in law school. 

It does interest me, but I think the prestige of going to law school and earning the degree is influencing my desire. 

I'm definitely going to look into the community college idea.  I've always wanted to teach at the collegiate level, but I've never liked the idea of spending my entire life publishing bullshit just to keep a teaching job. 

We'll see what happens over the next few months.

If I had stayed in the teaching field I would have went back and got my masters so I could teach history at a JUCO.  I liked the idea of teaching those who actually wanted to be there or those that knew they had to learn in order to t-fer to a university.  I also would have thought hard about getting my Ed.S and trying to teach at Athens State at couple of nights a week. 

[Jumbo]

Don't do it.  I just graduated from law school and took the bar, and will be honest with you and tell you there are much better choices.

But you get laid twice a day?

[Ogre]

I'm thinking about becoming one, but I have some questions before I delve into craziness of LSATs, law school, and Bar exams. 

If you feel inclined, would you please answer the following questions for me?

1.  I understand that an exhorbitant amount of money must be borrowed from the government in order to afford law school.  Considering that lawyers can make up to $100k+ a year, is it difficult to pay off the loans and live a normal lifestyle (not always on a super tight budget) with your family and friends?

2.  How many hours are you required to work per week?  A few friends of mine have said 60+ hours a week.  Does this include weekends?  I understand that lawyers work "billable hours".  Is it possible to just work three days a week and knock out most of those hours, or do most firms give you a schedule? 

Is there a way to work only 40-50 hours a week and have weekends off?

I know this sounds like a question coming from a lazy man, but consider that I'm a teacher, I CAN go home at 3pm every day and have weekends and holidays off.  I might be able to endure teaching in a classroom if it means not working my life away. 

3.  With the job market the way it is now, do you think it's worth getting a law degree right now?  I've read that it's very difficult to get a good job right now unless you graduate in a top percentile.

4.  Do you like your job?  Is it monotonous? 

5.  If lawyers were paid $40k a year instead of the average $80k, would you have still chosen to be a lawyer?

Any other suggestions or words of advice?

Sorry I'm late to the party.  I'm not a lawyer, but I live with one.  Here are my responses based on my observations/experiences:

1.  I believe my wife accrued upwards of $120k in student loans for law school.  It's about a $1400/month payment that makes me sick to my stomach.  We won't be able to start taking chunks out of the principal until she makes partner, which she is eligible for in 3 more years.  We are still able to live a 'comfortable' life, but that's mainly because of my job.

2.  My wife is required to bill 2000 hours a year.  That, of course, does not include all of the non-billable bullshit that partners will throw on her.  It's not a stretch to say that she averages 60-70 hours a week.  Now that she's pregnant, she has scaled back to 50-60 hours a week.  Kiss those summers (and many weekends) goodbye.

3.  Can't answer that.

4.  Some days she likes it and some days she hates it.  Just like any other job.

5.  She'd answer a resounding "NO" and I would have probably found some doctor to marry. 

Hey, I'm a gold digger. 

[Saniflush]

But you get laid twice a day?

I don't think getting laid by lamb chop counts.

[Godfather]

I don't think getting laid by lamb chop counts.

Hey...don't knock the fur...it's sooooft

[CCTAU]

Hey...don't knock the fur...it's sooooft

Yeah, but it dries sticky.


Shouldn't this title be "LIEYERS?" didn't I see where one poster always refers to lawyers that way? Is that an inside joke to all of the broke lawyers on the site? And what is the cost per 1000 for the little magnets with the phone numbers on them that lawyers throw at the side of ambulances?

[Snaggletiger]

Yeah, but it dries sticky.


Shouldn't this title be "LIEYERS?" didn't I see where one poster always refers to lawyers that way? Is that an inside joke to all of the broke lawyers on the site? And what is the cost per 1000 for the little magnets with the phone numbers on them that lawyers throw at the side of ambulances?

The Lieyers is a Sani standard.  The magnets are surprisingly affordable and the technique of flipping them out the window towards the wrecked vehicle so that it is prominently displayed can be easily mastered with a little practice.  Word of advice to novice ambulance chasers....be sure and guage the wind speeds and direction before you flip the magnet.  And, as everyone knows, never launch at speeds over 28 m.p.h.