This Ought to Make the Libertarians Happy

[AUChizad]

Alcohol is a gateway drug. More people that moved to harder substances such as cocaine, etc. started with alcohol.
No one's saying it's good for you. Better than alcohol or tobacco, perhaps.
I can agree to an extent that marijuana for medicinal purposes is a bit sketchy. I think it should be legalized for whatever purposes. But as it stands in some states it IS legal for medicinal use, and that's a step in the right direction. I don't think I'd qualify, but I have extreme GERD, and Barrett's Esophagus, which is a precurser to cancer. For me personally, there's no doubt that marijuana would be better for me than alcohol. I still stick to alcohol, because at present moment, that substance won't get me fired.
What do you think fermentation is?

Sorry for the late response. I got tied up with a client phone call at work. It won't happen again.

[Saniflush]

Fuck you bunch of hippies.  Leave my bourbon out of it.

Bottom line.  I don't give a shit what you do as long as it does not interfere with my freedoms of choice.

[Tarheel]

Thanks for quoting what I said. Are you sharing it with the police?  I will standby for commentary.

I suck at teh ebays sometimes.  My bad.

EDIT:

For those of you from Tuscaloosa my response is posted in the lengthy 'edit' of my quote of Thrilla above.

And, yes, the proper authorities have been notified.

[Tarheel]

Gateway shmateway.  

I am living proof that it is not a gateway drug.  I dabbled with one other drug twice in my early post-college years, and those experiences were all I needed to let me know that I don't want to do anything harder than pot.  

It is no more of a gateway drug than alcohol.  

I'm glad that you were able to stop.  But you are wrong; it is a gateway drug.  By you're own admission you are living proof that it is.  What lead you to 'dabble'?  Was it alcohol?  Nicotine?  Caffeine?  Do tell.

[Tarheel]

Alcohol is a gateway drug. More people that moved to harder substances such as cocaine, etc. started with alcohol.
...

Not sure that I'd disagree with you about alcohol being a gateway drug.  You are right.  I think it's bullshit to say that more people moved from alcohol to cocaine than anything else such as MJ.

...
No one's saying it's good for you. Better than alcohol or tobacco, perhaps.
...

Now that is bullshit.

...
I can agree to an extent that marijuana for medicinal purposes is a bit sketchy. I think it should be legalized for whatever purposes. But as it stands in some states it IS legal for medicinal use, and that's a step in the right direction. I don't think I'd qualify, but I have extreme GERD, and Barrett's Esophagus, which is a precurser to cancer. For me personally, there's no doubt that marijuana would be better for me than alcohol. I still stick to alcohol, because at present moment, that substance won't get me fired.
...

I think you'll have no trouble finding a real doctor who can prescribe a PROVEN drug to relieve what ails you.  If my employer even smelled alcohol on my breath I'd probably be fired.  We've certainly fired others because of it.

...
What do you think fermentation is?

I think that it enhances the prevalent THC chemical that already exists in the raw plant in various degrees depending on which part you prefer to ferment and then smoke (or make tea from).

[AUChizad]

Not sure that I'd disagree with you about alcohol being a gateway drug.  You are right.  I think it's bullshit to say that more people moved from alcohol to cocaine than anything else such as MJ.

So where's the gateway? Why the distinction between alcohol and pot. Alcohol more likely comes BEFORE marijuana, so if anything THAT'S the gateway drug. I think the whole "gateway drug" thing is bullshit to begin with. The slippery slope argument is a fallacy, nothing more. And by the way, I actually do know people who are more likely to do cocaine than pot. Alcohol and cocaine are more similar in that they are both social drugs.

Now that is bullshit.

How so? Dispute what Thrilla already pointed out.

I think you'll have no trouble finding a real doctor who can prescribe a PROVEN drug to relieve what ails you.  If my employer even smelled alcohol on my breath I'd probably be fired.  We've certainly fired others because of it.

I wouldn't use marijuana to cure my GERD. I am on Nexium to relieve what ails me. What I was saying was, if I gotta get my mind alteration on (and I do), it is certainly more healthy in my situation to take a puff than to take a drink. Neither are good for me, no argument there, but that's not what I'm suggesting.

I think that it enhances the prevalent THC chemical that already exists in the raw plant in various degrees depending on which part you prefer to ferment and then smoke (or make tea from).

I'm talking about the fermentation of yeast and bacteria, or grapes.

[Ogre]

I'm glad that you were able to stop.  But you are wrong; it is a gateway drug.  By you're own admission you are living proof that it is.  What lead you to 'dabble'?  Was it alcohol?  Nicotine?  Caffeine?  Do tell.

Actually, I was not smoking MJ either time I tried coke.  I was drinking heavily once and stone-cold sober the other.  I tried it twice and hated it - drunk or sober.  If anything, alcohol was the 'gateway' that allowed me to try it the first time.

[Thrilla]

Yes, indeed, it's fun to go round and round.

It really boils down to nicotine, caffeine, alcohol, and MJ not really being 'safe' at all so an argument by comparison is pointless.  Sometimes I wonder why all of them are not MORE tightly controlled and regulated but then I realize that would fuck up FedGov's revenue stream wouldn't it?

On this, we no longer go round and round.  But I do wish our government would allow for the additional revenue stream.  Tax the shit outta things that are considered vices, and ease taxes on necessecities.

You asked earlier why I have a 'hatred', as you call it, of this substance.  Anecdotal as it is, I've seen first hand what it can do to people's lives in the lives of two people in my family (one, of whom, is no longer with us); which proves to me first-hand what scientific studies have shown about the effects of MJ.  So don't even start to evangelize to me how 'safe' it is to use.

Duly noted.  And it saddens me to hear it.

Well, anyway, on a happier note, to quote from a friend, 'I think we have a hippie infestation problem here in the X'.

Fuck you bunch of hippies.  Leave my bourbon out of it.

I'm not cutting my hair, dude.


I think everything else on this matter has been laid out there, no?  Now, I'm going to enjoy this high.

[Tarheel]

So where's the gateway? Why the distinction between alcohol and pot. Alcohol more likely comes BEFORE marijuana, so if anything THAT'S the gateway drug. I think the whole "gateway drug" thing is bullshit to begin with. The slippery slope argument is a fallacy, nothing more. And by the way, I actually do know people who are more likely to do cocaine than pot. Alcohol and cocaine are more similar in that they are both social drugs.

I think that I have successfully argued that the gateway is alcohol and/or tobacco.  But they are indeed mild by comparison to MJ and by your own admission (to use that vernacular again) above one leads to another and another and another.  Yes, I'm sure that alcohol and tobacco both more than likely come BEFORE MJ probably do in most cases but I'd also say that most people are able to stop (by themselves or by intervention) before making it worse and stepping into the realm of illicit drugs.

There has to be threshold somewhere.  There's enough evidence to show that it's fine right where it is.

Legalized 'social drug' use will be the further ruin of this nation.  Someone stated earlier that some folk are able to find the self-control in drug use.  That's fine but if it's legalized how can it be determined in people as to who can control themselves in using it and who can't?  Hell, as you stated, thousands die from accidents caused by DUI every year.  How many more accidents will be caused if pot use is legalized?  Just as an example; we can't keep people from drinking and driving...tell me how that's going to get any better by adding pot to the equation?

...
How so? Dispute what Thrilla already pointed out.
...

I'm not saying that alcohol and tobacco use can't be abused.  Intemperate use of both can cause some truly severe health issues at the very least.  Here's but one of thousands of articles about the effects of marijuana use; just reading this one article tells me it's far worse than alcohol or tobacco:

http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/evidence99/marijuana/Health_1.html

Admittedly that's based on 'habitual' use but I'd say a habit by any other word (e.g. 'recreation') smells of shit all the same.

But habeas corpus...if you know otherwise; I'm afraid that you aren't going to change my thinking on this though unless you can talk the good Lord himself into coming down and telling me different (You might want to reference my original post to Thrilla as to why).

...
I wouldn't use marijuana to cure my GERD. I am on Nexium to relieve what ails me. What I was saying was, if I gotta get my mind alteration on (and I do), it is certainly more healthy in my situation to take a puff than to take a drink. Neither are good for me, no argument there, but that's not what I'm suggesting.

That is my point.

(And, for the sake of full disclosure, I admit to smoking cigars and consuming alcohol too.)

...
I'm talking about the fermentation of yeast and bacteria, or grapes.

Understood.

Actually, I was not smoking MJ either time I tried coke.  I was drinking heavily once and stone-cold sober the other.  I tried it twice and hated it - drunk or sober.  If anything, alcohol was the 'gateway' that allowed me to try it the first time.

Well, that's good, personal anecdotal evidence that alcohol CAN be a gateway to stronger drug use.  I don't mean to sound patronizing but I'm glad you don't use anything worse.  At least you were able to stop at some threshold; others aren't as fortunate.

As stated earlier I think it can be argued that MJ, alcohol, and tobacco can all be considered gateway drugs. Some people have the self control not to take it any further or to abuse it.

Also, as I said earlier, there has to be a threshold somewhere; and there's just too much evidence of the truly negative effects that MJ has on the human body and mind.

And I do sincerely apologize for sounding really patronizing in what I wrote to you in that previous post.  I didn't mean it that way at all.

Fuck you bunch of hippies.
...

Amen!

[AUChizad]

Marijuana use can make you a worthless, unhealthy, lazy slob incapable of achieving anything in life.

Signed,

Michael Phelps

[Tarheel]

Marijuana use can make you a worthless, unhealthy, lazy slob incapable of achieving anything in life.

Signed,

Michael Phelps

I'm laughing at the irony.

Good post.

[GarMan]

I'm so busy with work right now that I can only afford a drive-by posting on the topic...  Sorry for that...

Anyone who believes that MJ is a "safe drug" is fuggin' nuts!  Period!!!  Yeah sure...  You can't OD.  Yeah sure...  There may be minimal organ damage from its occasional use.  Blah, blah, blah...  You clowns are only arguing the blatantly obvious immediate affects of its use.  There is one thing that you are failing to understand.  There are serious longer term affects to the brain.  You can research THC, hippocampus, learning, cognitive ability, memory, emotional response and motivational response for additional information, but the evidence of its adverse affects is far more conclusive than arguments for glow-bull warming, the safety of organic foods, the dangers of asbestos and lead-based paint.  

My personal concern is the result of its legalization on the capability, capacity and mental stability of future generations.  Studies have shown that those who have used between the ages of 14 to 24, when the brain is developing more advanced functions such as those mentioned above, suffer from more serious longer term affects.  Basically, they're handicapping themselves.  They might be able to hold down a job, but you’re not typically going to find them performing open-heart surgery, designing a spaceship or developing a new source of energy.  In fact, you're probably won't even find them running companies, serving on corporate boards, or performing in the top 20% or our nation's producers.  The damage caused by THC during those years of brain development is irreversible.  In fact, any damage brought about by the occasional use of THC is irreversible regardless of age.  It's just more pronounced in those who have "experimented" during those developmental years.  

That's all that I really have on the topic.  I really don't care what people do.  The pro-liberty side of me suggests that I shouldn't care what you do as long as it doesn't affect me, but it will affect me if I recognize the bigger picture.  While those dope-smoking slobs are under-achieving (having difficulty keeping their checkbook balanced or meeting the terms of the mortgage agreement and car loan), they're going to burden the rest of society.  

Why handicap yourself?  Alcohol doesn't do anything like that that unless you have a serious problem and drink to excess everyday, but anything in excess can become a problem.  

[Ogre]

That's all that I really have on the topic.  I really don't care what people do.  The pro-liberty side of me suggests that I shouldn't care what you do as long as it doesn't affect me, but it will affect me if I recognize the bigger picture.  While those dope-smoking slobs are under-achieving (having difficulty keeping their checkbook balanced or meeting the terms of the mortgage agreement and car loan), they're going to burden the rest of society.  

Why handicap yourself?  Alcohol doesn't do anything like that that unless you have a serious problem and drink to excess everyday, but anything in excess can become a problem.  

Or the dope-smoking slobs can marry a lawyer that can support their habits.

Edit:  Actually, I make a pretty damn good living on my own.  I have never missed a payment of any kind, and I am extremely productive at work.  I realize it's easy to paint with a broad brush, but you have to realize that not every person who imbibes is a tie-dye shirt wearing, bike-riding, stinky filthy hippie.  There are normal people who enjoy it WHILE contributing to society.  For example, two of my best friends from college smoke every day, and both are in their last year of doctorate school.  Neither has ever made a "B" in their life. 

[AUChizad]

My personal concern is the result of its legalization on the capability, capacity and mental stability of future generations.  Studies have shown that those who have used between the ages of 14 to 24, when the brain is developing more advanced functions such as those mentioned above, suffer from more serious longer term affects.  Basically, they're handicapping themselves.  They might be able to hold down a job, but you’re not typically going to find them performing open-heart surgery, designing a spaceship or developing a new source of energy.  In fact, you're probably won't even find them running companies, serving on corporate boards, or performing in the top 20% or our nation's producers.  The damage caused by THC during those years of brain development is irreversible.  In fact, any damage brought about by the occasional use of THC is irreversible regardless of age.  It's just more pronounced in those who have "experimented" during those developmental years.

First of all, this is a ridiculous stretch of a doomsday scenario you've presented. BUT if marijuana were actually legalized, you wouldn't be able to get it until you were 21, or AT LEAST 18 (at least 19 in Alabama). MORE kids are smoking marijuana now at a "developmental age" because they can't their hands on alcohol because they can't purchase it from the stores, and there's no (notable) black market for alcohol.

That's all that I really have on the topic.  I really don't care what people do.  The pro-liberty side of me suggests that I shouldn't care what you do as long as it doesn't affect me, but it will affect me if I recognize the bigger picture.  While those dope-smoking slobs are under-achieving (having difficulty keeping their checkbook balanced or meeting the terms of the mortgage agreement and car loan), they're going to burden the rest of society.

Again, a ridiculous broad-brush statement. I'm not trying to out anyone, but every law school student I know smokes marijuana FAR FAR FAR more regularly than I ever would. In fact, outside the Amsterdam experience I mentioned before, EVERY TIME I HAVE EVER SMOKED MARIJUANA has been with a law school student. The next two biggest pot heads I know? Doing their med school residency. One of which was the one who was so adamant about going to Amsterdam in the first place on our Eurpean trip. The next biggest behind them would be a 24 year old that makes close to 6 figures doing IT for an accounting firm. I mentioned Michael Phelps in jest, but seriously, are you going to argue that he's a worthless good-for-nothing? It is well documented that George W. Bush did plenty of toking (as well as use cocaine for that matter). Is he a burnout hippie?

Your generalizations, as most are, are based on ignorance.

Why handicap yourself?  Alcohol doesn't do anything like that that unless you have a serious problem and drink to excess everyday, but anything in excess can become a problem.  

And how is this different from alcohol?

[GarMan]

First of all, this is a ridiculous stretch of a doomsday scenario you've presented. BUT if marijuana were actually legalized, you wouldn't be able to get it until you were 21, or AT LEAST 18 (at least 19 in Alabama). MORE kids are smoking marijuana now at a "developmental age" because they can't their hands on alcohol because they can't purchase it from the stores, and there's no (notable) black market for alcohol.

Ridiculous stretch?  You must be operating with limited cognitive ability...  How's that working out for you? 

At 16, I found it much easier to get my hands on a bottle of liquor or a 12-pack from Pushpop at the local Kwiki-Mart.  In fact, I purchased my first 12-pack at the ripe old age of 14.  Kids have been swiping bottles from mom and dad's liquor cabinets for years.  It's easy, even today.  Do you really think that kids have experimented or used more marijuana than alcohol? 

Again, a ridiculous broad-brush statement. I'm not trying to out anyone, but every law school student I know smokes marijuana FAR FAR FAR more regularly than I ever would. In fact, outside the Amsterdam experience I mentioned before, EVERY TIME I HAVE EVER SMOKED MARIJUANA has been with a law school student.

Are you serious?  If so, you're definitely operating with limited cognitive ability.  You just shot down you're own argument.  Do you really hold law students on that high of a pedestal?  Why do you think our legal system is such a fucking joke?  Do you think lawyers are considered our society's "greatest achievers"???  I'm sure that there are quite a few good ones out there, but seriously...   

The next two biggest pot heads I know? Doing their med school residency. One of which was the one who was so adamant about going to Amsterdam in the first place on our Eurpean trip.

Am I supposed to be impressed by more fucking kids?   

The next biggest behind them would be a 24 year old that makes close to 6 figures doing IT for an accounting firm.

Again?   

Is this stuff really supposed to impress me.  You're throwing out young, dumb, punk kids as some sort of evidence.  If any of these clowns are the pot users that you claim, let's see where they end up in another 15-25 years.  Will they be as capable as their peers?  Will they be performing on par?  Will they be as accomplished?  Will they be as wise?  This is typically where they'll fall short. 

I mentioned Michael Phelps in jest, but seriously, are you going to argue that he's a worthless good-for-nothing?

Again...  He's another fucking kid...  And, he's a pretty dumb one at that.   
1) When he speaks, he's obviously not the smartest kid on the bus.
2) He smoked dope.
3) He allowed his picture to be taken, while he was smoking dope. 

Not the sharpest guy...  And, those lost endorsements don't seem to be working out too well for him either.

It is well documented that George W. Bush did plenty of toking (as well as use cocaine for that matter). Is he a burnout hippie?

While he may have made it to the Presidency, he was not the smartest or wisest we've had in the office.  He also ran a few companies into the ground.  He's not helping your argument...

Your generalizations, as most are, are based on ignorance.

Actually, just the opposite...
http://www.uc.edu/News/NR.aspx?ID=9011
http://health.usnews.com/articles/health/brain-and-behavior/2008/06/02/the-brain-on-lots-of-marijuana.html
http://grants.nih.gov/grants/guide/rfa-files/RFA-DA-04-016.html
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080602/marijuana_effects_080602/20080602?hub=Health
http://www.javno.com/en-lifestyle/heavy-marijuana-use-shrinks-brain-parts---study_153088
http://medheadlines.com/2008/07/02/study-%E2%80%93-long-term-marijuana-use-toxic-to-the-brain/

Let's see if you do like the glow-bull whining alarmists and attack all of the sources and messengers as being biased or working for big oil/alcohol...  Come on...  You can do it... 

Try giving the facts a chance.  There are enough clowns out there supporting legalized MJ, so I'm not going to convince you either way.  But, try to come to the table with something useful next time.  Don't throw a bunch of young twirp pukes up as your role models and expect anyone to be swayed on this.  There are studies on both sides of the argument; I just side with the one that lacks an agenda. 

And how is this different from alcohol?

Two different results...  Occasional alcohol use is harmless.  MJ use does something much more fucking with your brain development and chemistry.  Look, if you're 40 years old and holding your own, while toking on the occasional joint, I don't really give a shit.  BUT, don't try to clear your petty, fragile, little conscience at society's expense, because that's what this is all about. 

As for your childish "doomsday scenario" remarks... 
- There was a time when income taxes didn't exist.  Now, it's "doomsday scenario" realized with an income tax at the federal level, most states and several cities, and they didn't stop at just one.  They have different types on income taxes...  One for unemployment benefits...  One for Medicare...  And, more are coming!!! 
- There was a time when nobody ever considered the possibility of a Social Security system.  Now, it's "doomsday scenario" realized where we have a gubm'et run Ponzi scheme that's about to have more people collecting this entitlement than paying into it.  Here come the baby-boomers. 
- There was a time when nobody ever thought socialized healthcare for children would be possible.  It’s "doomsday scenario" realized again with the new and "improved" S-CHIP bill that just extended healthcare coverage from the original $45k household income to “up-to” $87k household income. 
- There was a time when nobody ever thought that smoking in public would be banned.  Now, look at the fucking mess everywhere...  Another "doomsday scenario" realized…
- There was a time when nobody thought that our gun rights would ever be challenged.  That’s only a move typical of a tyrant like Hitler!  Not only did we live through Klintoon and the Brady gun bills, they actually confiscated guns in New Orleans...  Another "doomsday scenario" realized…

[Ogre]

So if this was 1930 I'm sure you would have been arguing your case against alcohol before prohibition was repealed, right?  Lord knows what it would do to our society if we allowed people to drink the devil's juice! 

Each study you cited had "Heavy Use" or "Long-term" or some other variation of those in the title or first paragraph.  Well no shit - I'm sure I can find plenty of articles on the heavy use of alcohol as it relates to an adolescent brain.  I could, but I won't, because I'm a lazy pothead.  Actually, I haven't smoked in a month, so technically I'm clean as a whistle right now, but that's neither here nor there.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not railing on alcohol here.  Lord knows I love me some alcohol.  I just don't get the moral soapbox speech with regards to pot.

[Saniflush]

I love lead paint chips.

[AUChizad]

Ridiculous stretch?  You must be operating with limited cognitive ability...  How's that working out for you?

Wow. This is why I don't spend much time in the political forums. It doesn't take long before an idiot makes an ignorant, myopic, ridiculous, argument based on nothing but their own generalizations, which themselves are based on nothing but what the agenda they support perpetuates. You can't argue with ignorance. But I'll try.

At 16, I found it much easier to get my hands on a bottle of liquor or a 12-pack from Pushpop at the local Kwiki-Mart.  In fact, I purchased my first 12-pack at the ripe old age of 14.  Kids have been swiping bottles from mom and dad's liquor cabinets for years.  It's easy, even today.  Do you really think that kids have experimented or used more marijuana than alcohol? 

Yes. Things have changed since you grew up. I don't know if you're aware but you have to be 21 to buy alcohol now. Penalties for contributing to minors are serious. For high school kids it is FAR easier to find a 16 year old that grows pot in his room to sell it to you than it is to get someone to go the the store to pick up a 6 pack for you.

Are you serious?  If so, you're definitely operating with limited cognitive ability.  You just shot down you're own argument.  Do you really hold law students on that high of a pedestal?  Why do you think our legal system is such a fucking joke?  Do you think lawyers are considered our society's "greatest achievers"???  I'm sure that there are quite a few good ones out there, but seriously...   

Who taught you that term? Cognitive ability? Just because someone used it to burn your argument before doesn't mean that it is a trump card to just pull out when you have nothing else to say.

When I originally typed that, I KNEW you would say something about what scum of the earth lawyers are. You are a joke. Yeah, nothing but burnouts and unmotivated losers make it through law school. It's basically where the special ed class and in school suspension kids end up ten years down the road, right?

And I'm not talking about 2 or 3 I know. I'm talking about at least 90% of the 40+ law school students I know.

Am I supposed to be impressed by more fucking kids?   
Again?   

God forbid, my kid ends up one of those no good doctors. Man, I tell you, I will make damn sure to tell my kids every night,  "Whatever you do, don't experiment with drugs. You don't want to end up in a dead-end job working as a doctor or lawyer."

Is this stuff really supposed to impress me.  You're throwing out young, dumb, punk kids as some sort of evidence.  If any of these clowns are the pot users that you claim, let's see where they end up in another 15-25 years.  Will they be as capable as their peers?  Will they be performing on par?  Will they be as accomplished?  Will they be as wise?  This is typically where they'll fall short.

I'd be willing to bet the house that they will be. I'm basing this on the fact that I actually know the people I speak of, and knowing how intelligent and successful they are already at such a young age. I'm sorry I'm 26, so my peers too are in their 20s.  This cripples my argument how? The law school and med school students I know today, will be doctors and lawyers in the next couple of years. And there's nothing to indicate with a year left of med school or a semester left of law school that any of them are anywhere near any kind of danger of flunking out, as I guess you're assuming. I don't know what you do for a living that's so high and mighty, but I do know that you probably make less than the 24 year old "clown", I'm fairly certain that you did when you were his age, and I also know that most people in the real world consider doctors and lawyers to be esteemed occupations. It's safe to say most would probably rank it above whatever it is you do, in terms of success and the drive and motivation it takes to get there. And no, I'm not trying to turn this into an elitist "You don't make as much as so-and-so" argument, but you're the one lumping everyone who smokes pot into this dregs of society, absolute bottom tier of the caste system.

Again...  He's another fucking kid...  And, he's a pretty dumb one at that.   
1) When he speaks, he's obviously not the smartest kid on the bus.
2) He smoked dope.
3) He allowed his picture to be taken, while he was smoking dope.

Not the sharpest guy...  And, those lost endorsements don't seem to be working out too well for him either.

How many gold medals have you won for the United States? More than anyone ever in the entire 3000 year old history of the Olympics, or zero? You'd think this would be the Jesse Owens to your inferiority argument, Hitler, but I guess you're more closed minded than Adolf himself. I tell you, that marijuana just makes you a completely worthless drain on society, incapable of reaching goals or having ambition. A perfect model of an unhealthy lifestyle.

While he may have made it to the Presidency, he was not the smartest or wisest we've had in the office.  He also ran a few companies into the ground.  He's not helping your argument...

He's an idiot when it's convenient to your argument. A misunderstood genius when THAT fits your argument.

What about Arnold Schwarzenegger?

Let me guess, he's not a REAL Republican either. No kind of success story there...

How about another Republican Governor, Michael Bloomberg? Look up his response when New York Magazine asked him if he ever smoked pot. "You bet I did. And I enjoyed it!" Eighth richest man in the world worth over 20 billion dollars...He must have acquired that from sucking dick in back alleyways, since we all know that's all that a pot smoker can amount to.

Ted Turner funds the Kentucky Hemp Museum...sure would hate to have his billions...Oh yeah, I forgot he's a communist because he founded CNN. Damn, when you can so quickly shoot my arguments because they're on your 10 billion page black list, I guess I just have no credibility.

I'm sure Sir Richard Branson had to make your list too. You know, the guy who built the Virgin Empire from the ground up. I know he has to be on your blacklist because he's petitioned for the legalization of pot and even stated that if it were legal, he’d sell it. In your mind, that makes him a filthy hippie with no credibility, I'm sure.

It goes without saying that every musician ever is on your list. Nah, you strike me more of a Toby Kieth fan. Oh, damn, guess you've never heard "Smoke Weed With Willie".

More into the "pure" country artists, probably then right. Like Hank Williams Sr. & Jr., Johnny Cash, David Allan Coe, Waylon Jennings, Merle Haggard, Willie Nelson...damn damn damn!!!

Are we done here?

Actually, just the opposite...
http://www.uc.edu/News/NR.aspx?ID=9011
http://health.usnews.com/articles/health/brain-and-behavior/2008/06/02/the-brain-on-lots-of-marijuana.html
http://grants.nih.gov/grants/guide/rfa-files/RFA-DA-04-016.html
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080602/marijuana_effects_080602/20080602?hub=Health
http://www.javno.com/en-lifestyle/heavy-marijuana-use-shrinks-brain-parts---study_153088
http://medheadlines.com/2008/07/02/study-%E2%80%93-long-term-marijuana-use-toxic-to-the-brain/

Let's see if you do like the glow-bull whining alarmists and attack all of the sources and messengers as being biased or working for big oil/alcohol...  Come on...  You can do it... 

Ogre already pointed out what should be painfully obvious, so I won't repeat it here.

Try giving the facts a chance.  There are enough clowns out there supporting legalized MJ, so I'm not going to convince you either way.  But, try to come to the table with something useful next time.  Don't throw a bunch of young twirp pukes up as your role models and expect anyone to be swayed on this.  There are studies on both sides of the argument; I just side with the one that lacks an agenda.

This is laughable. The one that lacks an agenda? Seriously? Damn science and it's agenda. Damn actual facts besides the made up statistics you can parrot from the same inventors of this farcical war on drugs.

The rest of your argument is either nonsensical filler or a response to something I stated in which you completely missed the point I was making, so none of it is worth wasting any more time responding to.

And after all this, keep in mind that I can count on one hand the number of times I've smoked pot, so don't paint me into your hippie devoid of all credibility brush.

[tiger88]

Prosecuting people for smoking and pssessing marijuana is one of the stupidest fucking things this country does. It is a monumental waste of money and is similar to pissing in the wind. If you have 5% of the population being indifferent to a certain law it can not be effectively policed. See  marijuana and speeding for examples.

We could clean out a large portion of our prisons and make them places where we keep the real criminals more cost effectively.

You can say what you want, the only reason pot is illegal is beacause of bible fucking thumpers and the lumber industry. It is not nearly as destructive of a drug on the body as alcohol. It isn't nearly as disabling as alcohol.

[AUChizad]

Prosecuting people for smoking and pssessing marijuana is one of the stupidest fucking things this country does. It is a monumental waste of money and is similar to pissing in the wind. If you have 5% of the population being indifferent to a certain law it can not be effectively policed. See  marijuana and speeding for examples.

We could clean out a large portion of our prisons and make them places where we keep the real criminals more cost effectively.

You can say what you want, the only reason pot is illegal is beacause of bible fucking thumpers and the lumber industry. It is not nearly as destructive of a drug on the body as alcohol. It isn't nearly as disabling as alcohol.

I'm sure you meant 50%, not 5.

Statistics show that 42% of Americans ADMIT to smoking marijuana despite its illegality.

Maybe 5% are as adamantly supportive of the law as GarMan and TarHeel...