CIGAR SMOKERS BEWARE!

[Tarheel]

Many of you long-time X'ers know that the SCHIP Bill has been the cause of many a political rant on my part (I've posted one below.).  For those who don't know the SCHIP Bill is a bill to provide funding for the State Children's Health Insurance Program for "poor" children.  That's all well and good in and of itself but the source of the funding is not only higher cigarette taxes but significant increases in taxes on cigars and pipe tobacco.  The latter two had not been used to fund this pathetic excuse for universal healthcare before the most recent iterations of this "SHIT" Bill.  President Bush vetoed two previous iterations of this bill which would have capped the tax on cigars at $10.00 per cigar and $3.00 per cigar respectively; the current tax cap is 5 cents per cigar.  (Of course Congress would never dream of NOT passing this thing...who wants to vote "against the children"?)

Well, to waste no time in getting to "the business of the people" the fucking Pelosi-led House passed a new version of it again today with a unanimous Democrat socialist vote coupled with about 40 sell-out RINO's (because who wants to vote "against the fucking children"!?).  It'll probably pass the Senate (it did twice already) then go on to be signed by The ONE, I'm sure, in some overly-dramatic, East Room ceremony as The ONE's first bill!  Wow.

There is a spark of good news in all of this and that is that a group of lobbyists from the 'evil' IPCPR (the International Premium Cigar and Pipe Retailers association) along with the cigar manufacturers (Altadis USA and General Cigar Corp.) were able to persuade the bill's "framers" to revise the cap to 40 cents rather than the outrageous $3.00 per or the extortionate $10.00 per.

It is not a good day for cigar smokers.  We can expect an increase in cigar prices but, for now, it's not as high a price as we would have had to pay to enjoy our fine tobacco products.

In the meantime I plan to give my Senator what-for if he supports this shitty bill.  And I have yet to begin a rant on how this bill is to be funded by the diminishing returns of American smokers.

Here's an excerpt from a CNN article, as usual, all emphasis is my own:

House passes expansion of children's health program


WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Congressional Democrats flexed their new political muscle Wednesday as the House of Representatives passed legislation expanding the State Children's Health Insurance Program by more than $32 billion over five years.

The SCHIP bill, which will be taken up by the Senate next week, passed by a vote of 289-139. House Democrats provided almost unanimous support; a strong majority of House Republicans were opposed.

"In this moment of crisis, ensuring that every child in America has access to affordable health care is not just good economic policy, but a moral obligation we hold as parents and citizens," President-elect Barack Obama said in a statement released after the vote.

"I hope that the Senate acts with the same sense of urgency so that it can be one of the first measures I sign into law," he said.

SCHIP covers more than 6 million children whose parents earn too much to qualify for Medicaid -- the federal health insurance program for the poor -- but who can't afford private insurance.

The bill's supporters say the legislation would extend the program to an estimated 4 million additional children, paying for it with a 61-cent-per-pack increase in the federal tax on cigarettes.

Passing an expansion of SCHIP early in Obama's presidency, House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer said, would be "a very dramatic and important statement that change has come to America."

"Children are our treasure," said Rep. John Dingell, D-Michigan. "The bill is only the beginning. ... We must not stop until all Americans qualify for quality, affordable health care."

Opponents of the bill argued that, among other things, it discriminates against physician-owned specialty hospitals, will allow undocumented immigrants to illegally access taxpayer-financed healthcare, and is insufficiently funded.

"Increasing the cigarette tax ... does not, will not, and cannot cover the costs of this program," Rep. Dave Camp, R-Michigan, said. "The impending tax increases ... will have us all in a severe coughing fit."

Funding the bill through cigarette taxes is "irrational," added Rep. Wally Herger, R-California, because it "finances a growing program through a declining revenue source."

President Bush vetoed two similar bills in 2007, arguing at the time that the legislation would have encouraged families to leave the private insurance market for the federally funded, state-run program.

Here's how Cigar Aficionado reported it today:

New SCHIP Bill—Federal Cigar Tax to Be Capped at 40 Cents

Posted: Tuesday, January 13, 2009

By David Savona 

The House Ways and Means Committee introduced the newest incarnation of the State Children's Health Insurance Program (SCHIP) today. The International Premium Cigar & Pipe Retailers Association (IPCPR) reported in an email that the legislation would impose a revised federal excise tax on large cigars—52.4 percent, with a maximum tax cap of 40 cents per cigar.

It was feared throughout the cigar industry that the cap would be much higher. The original version called for a $10 cap, and earlier versions had a cap of $3 per cigar. The tax is currently capped at five cents.

The bill, which seeks to fund an expansion of SCHIP with higher tobacco taxes, is expected to pass given the new Democratic leadership in Washington. Last year, Congress attempted to pass the expansion, but President Bush vetoed the legislation two times, most recently in December.

"Our industry came together to aggressively challenge the disastrous, proposed $3 tax cap," wrote Chris McCalla, legislative director of the IPCPR, in the email.
...

I'd suggest getting your bulk-order in for cigars now before the tax goes into effect shortly after The ONE takes his oath of office next Tuesday.


The links:
http://www.cigaraficionado.com/Cigar/CA_Features/CA_Feature_Basic_Template/0,2344,2612,00.html

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/01/14/schip/index.html

One of my previous rants for your reading pleasure:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/10/23/nsmoking123.xml

The fucking bastards already 'charge' smokers for the right to use tobacco products!  It's called a tobacco tax!

As a cigar smoker I really could care less about cigarettes but when it comes to tobacco taxes I do have a vested interest in this subject.  I have just about had it up to my nostril hairs with the damn smoke nazis and their government nanny-state schemes funded by tobacco taxes.  I realize that this article is about a British proposal but these shit-schemes are coming our way as seen recently in the failed S-CHIP program that President Bush thankfully vetoed (and Congress then sustained it despite Dingy Harry and the Wicked Witch of the West Pelosi's best efforts).  If tobacco is so fucking bad then just outlaw its use!  But no that can't happen because the dirty little secret is that tobacco taxes are so profitable for the government!  Fucking hypocrites.  They didn't tell us that in order to fund that S-CHIP proposal 21 million more smokers were going to have to be created in the next 5 years.

I have a very bad gut feeling that we are going to be dealt four or possibly eight years of the Hildebeast; the all-seeing eye of Lady Sauron and her federal orcs are going make life miserable for us all but especially for evil cigar and cigarette smokers all in the name of the children.  But they won't stop with tobacco products.

Well...that's my rant...for tonight anyway...

[GarMan]

Those fuckin' Nazis didn't waste any time!  I can't believe this shit.  At least, they've lowered the maximum to 40 cents per cigar.  It's still a 700% increase over the existing tax.  Could you imagine a 700% tax increase on any other product?  Just think about the 52.4% tax rate on cigars.  Imagine a 52.4% tax on cars...  or televisions...  or cable/satellite service...  or your cell phone bill...  It's outrageous!  It's completely unreasonable!

Fortunately, a 40 cent cap or a 35 cent increase per cigar isn't that significant for those of us who smoke real cigars.  It's only an increase of about $7 to $8 per box.  I was really worried about it.  The $3 cap per stick would have really hurt the industry increasing the typical box price by as much as $60-75.  The originally proposed $10 cap would have killed the industry. 

The sad thing about this is that the tax increase really hurts the lower end cigar market which targets the lower classes.  Those likely O'bama supporters are going to feel it the most...   

In the words of Walter Mondale to John F'n Kerry... "We're gonna tax the shit out of 'em!"   

[Saniflush]

Time place an order in the next couple of weeks.

[AUTiger1]

So they plan on getting their funding for this from taxing cigarettes and cigars?  Damn how smart!  Brilliant I tell you!   What kind of dumbass would want to tax the shit out something that is providing the funding?  Let me think about this for a minute, tax peoples smokes, it raises the price, people say fuck it I quit.  Then they quit, buy no more and all that tax revenue is lost.  I love my cigars, I have about 4 a week, not a heavy cigar smoker, but if it gets to a point where I think it is too costly, I can easily cut back or stop all together. 

[JohnDeere]

Fuck......I got a humidor for Christmas. I better go ahead and splurge to fill it up before this bill passes.

My first thought on this......I am assuming most premium hand rolled cigars are sold online or through mail order catalogues. I don't the know industry numbers on where the most retail is, but I assume it is online since I buy most of my cigars online. So, these online companies will go offshore to avoid the tax (leaving Americans unemployeed). It is simple enough to setup up shop in the Caribbean and setup an online storefront. Then this will hurt those small tobacco shop owners who will lose business to those major retailers who can go offshore to avoid the tax. The online tobacco aution websites will see a boom too, as "private individuals" list hundreds of boxes of cigars on these websites. They won't be paying the tax either.

[Saniflush]

Fuck......I got a humidor for Christmas. I better go ahead and splurge to fill it up before this bill passes.

My first thought on this......I am assuming most premium hand rolled cigars are sold online or through mail order catalogues. I don't the know industry numbers on where the most retail is, but I assume it is online since I buy most of my cigars online. So, these online companies will go offshore to avoid the tax (leaving Americans unemployeed). It is simple enough to setup up shop in the Caribbean and setup an online storefront. Then this will hurt those small tobacco shop owners who will lose business to those major retailers who can go offshore to avoid the tax. The online tobacco aution websites will see a boom too, as "private individuals" list hundreds of boxes of cigars on these websites. They won't be paying the tax either.

First step to taxing internet commerce?

[GarMan]

So, these online companies will go offshore to avoid the tax (leaving Americans unemployeed). It is simple enough to setup up shop in the Caribbean and setup an online storefront. Then this will hurt those small tobacco shop owners who will lose business to those major retailers who can go offshore to avoid the tax. The online tobacco aution websites will see a boom too, as "private individuals" list hundreds of boxes of cigars on these websites. They won't be paying the tax either.

I don't think that's as easy as you would think.  An online shop still needs a distribution center.  You can't really take that offshore as the shipping charges would likely exceed that of the proposed SCHIP tax increase.  The distribution point would likely still obligate this online retailer to pay the tax.  Additionally, if a consumer does attempt to import their own cigars, they are technically obligated to pay any taxes on these items.  

Finally, the Democratic Socialists have been dying to "tax the shit" out of online retail sales operations.  This will be coming soon and they don't really care what it does to the economy.  

[GarMan]

First step to taxing internet commerce?

Not directly...  That tax is still coming, and it will likely be on top of this tax.  In other words, you'll be paying taxes on taxes.  Socialists like it that way.

[JohnDeere]

First step to taxing internet commerce?

Didn't Samual Adams and Paul Revere start a war or something over some English fuckers trying to tax some tea in Boston?

[Saniflush]

I don't think that's as easy as you would think.  An online shop still needs a distribution center.  You can't really take that offshore as the shipping charges would likely exceed that of the proposed SCHIP tax increase.  The distribution point would likely still obligate this online retailer to pay the tax.  Additionally, if a consumer does attempt to import their own cigars, they are technically obligated to pay any taxes on these items.  

Finally, the Democratic Socialists have been dying to "tax the shit" out of online retail sales operations.  This will be coming soon and they don't really care what it does to the economy.  

Just wait till PayPal and Ebay have to start surrendering all their transaction records to these fucktards.  I gotta find somewhere else to go.

[Saniflush]

Didn't Samual Adams and Paul Revere start a war or something over some English fuckers trying to tax some tea in Boston?

They were just role playing in Indian costumes and things got out of hand.

[JohnDeere]

I don't think that's as easy as you would think.  An online shop still needs a distribution center.  You can't really take that offshore as the shipping charges would likely exceed that of the proposed SCHIP tax increase.  The distribution point would likely still obligate this online retailer to pay the tax.  Additionally, if a consumer does attempt to import their own cigars, they are technically obligated to pay any taxes on these items.  

Finally, the Democratic Socialists have been dying to "tax the shit" out of online retail sales operations.  This will be coming soon and they don't really care what it does to the economy.  

ALL high end cigars are coming from south of the border, why not distribute from south of the border to avoid taxes?

This is sort of like Cuban cigars......yeah, you can't get them in the U.S.. Those fuckers are sold by the thousands in Puerto Rico.

[GarMan]

Didn't Samual Adams and Paul Revere start a war or something over some English fuckers trying to tax some tea in Boston?

Nowadays, you'd be classified as a terrorist and get charged with hate crimes for dressing up as Injuns...  

[Saniflush]

Nowadays, you'd be classified as a terrorist and get charged with hate crimes for dressing up as Injuns...  

So we should go with dots in lieu of feathers?

[JohnDeere]

They were just role playing in Indian costumes and things got out of hand.

That mofo Sam Adams could dress up like a Berry Obama everyday and I'd still buy his beer.

[GarMan]

ALL high end cigars are coming from south of the border, why not distribute from south of the border to avoid taxes?

This is sort of like Cuban cigars......yeah, you can't get them in the U.S.. Those fuckers are sold by the thousands in Puerto Rico.

I'm guessing that the shipping costs of a crate of cigars to a US distributor combined with the distribution costs to get those cigars to the end user is far less than importing directly to the end user.  By the way, Puerto Rico is known for it's abundent counterfeit Cubans.  Most of them come out of Mexico, but any shady print shop would be happy to make some labels for you.  

[JohnDeere]

I'm guessing that the shipping costs of a crate of cigars to a US distributor combined with the distribution costs to get those cigars to the end user is far less than importing directly to the end user.

I don't think that is the case. You can buy high end cigars online at cheaper prices then in local tobacco stores. The overhead is going to be cheaper offshore or in Mexico, this will offset the shipping costs and this new tax.

 By the way, Puerto Rico is known for it's abundent counterfeit Cubans.  Most of them come out of Mexico, but any shady print shop would be happy to make some labels for you.  

No worries....you have to take the labels off anyway to get them through customs.

Good thing Barry is going down there to talk to Fidel & Sons and Hugo next week and get that shit straightened out so we can all be friends with the Latinos.

[Tarheel]

Fuck......I got a humidor for Christmas. I better go ahead and splurge to fill it up before this bill passes.

My first thought on this......I am assuming most premium hand rolled cigars are sold online or through mail order catalogues. I don't the know industry numbers on where the most retail is, but I assume it is online since I buy most of my cigars online. So, these online companies will go offshore to avoid the tax (leaving Americans unemployeed). It is simple enough to setup up shop in the Caribbean and setup an online storefront. Then this will hurt those small tobacco shop owners who will lose business to those major retailers who can go offshore to avoid the tax. The online tobacco aution websites will see a boom too, as "private individuals" list hundreds of boxes of cigars on these websites. They won't be paying the tax either.

I don't think that's as easy as you would think.  An online shop still needs a distribution center.  You can't really take that offshore as the shipping charges would likely exceed that of the proposed SCHIP tax increase.  The distribution point would likely still obligate this online retailer to pay the tax.  Additionally, if a consumer does attempt to import their own cigars, they are technically obligated to pay any taxes on these items.  

Finally, the Democratic Socialists have been dying to "tax the shit" out of online retail sales operations.  This will be coming soon and they don't really care what it does to the economy.  

You both bring up a good point about how online retailers will actually apply this tax.  I had not thought about this tax in those terms.

I buy most of my cigars online too.  All of the online retailers I purchase from are out-of-state and they do not add any sales tax (county, state or federal); presumably leaving the sales tax remission to the purchaser. 

If I extend that practice to other online retailers that I purchase from (not just tobacco products) only one out-of-state retailer that I bought from has ever added sales tax; basically the retailer added a homogenized sales tax for this state to cover the taxes in whatever county in which the product was being shipped; taxes are different in Georgia depending on what county you live in.

As I see it now the new tax as it applies to cigars will probably be handled the same way with online purchases as it is now...in other words if you live out-of-state from the online retailer then it's up to you the purchaser to remit the sales tax.

Obviously that is different for in-store purchases (or in-state intarweb purchases) in which case retailers always add sales taxes.

Speaking of teh ebays you can bet that this Congress will come up with some plan to implement a tax of some sort as GarMan mentions.  What has always been problematic about a tax on internet services/purchases is that every state that teh google lines run through will want to take a piece of the cake too above and beyond what FedGov takes.

I've been trying to stay on top of this issue myself; all of us should keep our eyes open for legislation innocuously titled the "Interstate Commerce Act" or something similarly titled; this will probably be the Bill in which any new "Intarwebs" taxes will be applied; this was the name format that a proposal took a few years ago I think (maybe GarMan can confirm).  The original Interstate Commerce Act was enacted in 1887 to regulate the Railroads, in part.

Anyway...get ready for taxes, taxes, and more taxes.

[Tarheel]

So much for the damn Republicans sticking together in the Senate to hold off the S-CHIP Bill!  A Republican proposal authored by a true conservative Republican Sen. Cornyn (R-TX) to limit this socialized healthcare travesty to the true "working poor" that it was originally intended for WITHOUT a tax increase FAILED to pass.

It is now likely that this fucking bill will pass the Senate tomorrow.  I'm not clear on whether it must go back to the House or not but even if it does it will pass (it already has...see my first post on this very thread) and The ONE will sign it.

Mark carefully my words; this will be the beginning of a nationalized, socialized health care program.

Further, the taxes on tobacco products (including cigars!) will provide only a diminishing source of funding...where's the fucking money supposed to come from?!

On this black day where the House passes the "Porkapalooza" Stimulus Bill this is a dark day indeed for the American taxpayer.

Here's how the votes came down (the nays were voting against the Cornyn proposal meaning the bill will remain the tax and spend healthcare travesty that it is...you can thank your favorite Democrat socialist or RINO-there were five! six if you count Chambliss, R-GA!- so highlighted below; obviously Sen. Coleman, R-MN was not allowed to vote because of the dispute between himself and the loathsome Al Franken):

Grouped By Vote Position

YEAs ---36
Alexander (R-TN)
Barrasso (R-WY)
Bennett (R-UT)
Brownback (R-KS)
Bunning (R-KY)
Burr (R-NC)
Coburn (R-OK)
Cochran (R-MS)
Corker (R-TN)
Cornyn (R-TX)
Crapo (R-ID)
DeMint (R-SC)
Ensign (R-NV)
Enzi (R-WY)
Graham (R-SC)
Grassley (R-IA)
Gregg (R-NH)
Hatch (R-UT)
Hutchison (R-TX)
Inhofe (R-OK)
Isakson (R-GA)
Johanns (R-NE)
Kyl (R-AZ)
Lugar (R-IN)
Martinez (R-FL)
McCain (R-AZ)
McConnell (R-KY)
Nelson (D-NE).......here's a surprise!; with NELSON we could've defeated this bill if we'd stayed together
Risch (R-ID)
Roberts (R-KS)
Sessions (R-AL)
Shelby (R-AL)
Thune (R-SD)
Vitter (R-LA)
Voinovich (R-OH)
Wicker (R-MS)


NAYs ---60
Akaka (D-HI)
Baucus (D-MT)
Bayh (D-IN)
Begich (D-AK)
Bennet (D-CO)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Bond (R-MO)....RINO
Boxer (D-CA)
Brown (D-OH)
Burris (D-IL)
Byrd (D-WV)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Cardin (D-MD)
Carper (D-DE)
Casey (D-PA)
Collins (R-ME)....RINO
Conrad (D-ND)
Dodd (D-CT)
Dorgan (D-ND)
Durbin (D-IL)
Feingold (D-WI)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Gillibrand (D-NY)
Hagan (D-NC)
Harkin (D-IA)
Inouye (D-HI)
Johnson (D-SD)
Kaufman (D-DE)
Kerry (D-MA)
Klobuchar (D-MN)
Kohl (D-WI)
Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Leahy (D-VT)
Levin (D-MI)
Lieberman (ID-CT)
Lincoln (D-AR)
McCaskill (D-MO)
Menendez (D-NJ)
Merkley (D-OR)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Murkowski (R-AK).....RINO
Murray (D-WA)
Nelson (D-FL)
Pryor (D-AR)
Reed (D-RI)
Reid (D-NV)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Sanders (I-VT)........real socialist
Schumer (D-NY)
Shaheen (D-NH)
Snowe (R-ME)....RINO
Specter (R-PA)....RINO
Stabenow (D-MI)
Tester (D-MT)
Udall (D-CO)
Udall (D-NM)
Warner (D-VA)
Webb (D-VA)
Whitehouse (D-RI)
Wyden (D-OR)

Not Voting - 3
Chambliss (R-GA)....RINO ?
Kennedy (D-MA)
Landrieu (D-LA)

[Tarheel]

Here's a good, but lengthy, article about what happened in the Senate with the S-CHIP vote today if anyone is interesting in reading further; if not just read my previous summary/commentary:

http://townhall.com/news/politics-elections/2009/01/28/gop_fails_to_limit_childrens_health_program?page=full&comments=true