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It Just Hit Home

Snaggletiger

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It Just Hit Home
« on: January 10, 2024, 03:39:22 PM »
Every work day, I head down to the Post Office to drop off and pick up the snail mail for the office. There’s a “park” next to it, which is just a fenced off area with benches.  There’s always a pretty good contingent of homeless in and around the park, Post Office and library situated in the same area.  Hardly a week goes by that someone doesn’t hit you up for money.  Occasionally, it will be the same guy, who forgot that he told you the same sob story about his mother dying in Bainbridge, Georgia, and his car broke down, and he needs a few bucks to get a part so he can fix it and make his mom’s funeral.  So far, she’s died 3 times over the last year. Apparently, they haven’t put her in the ground yet.

Once a month, our Sunday School class, prepares and serves a meal at the Dothan Rescue Mission, and I see many of the same faces coming through the line. You learn about some of them, and shake your head over their situation.  They all genuinely need help of some manner, but you don’t know if you give somebody the $10.00 you have in your wallet, if they’re going to use it to get something to eat, or put it towards that next fix. No way to know. Honestly, some days I'm happy to throw a few bucks their way, while other times, I take the long way around to avoid the question.

Just a bit ago, I took a break to head to a coffee shop a few blocks from the office.  While I waited, I saw this man on the sidewalk, just outside the entrance. I’m standing right at the glass, about 7-8 feet from him. I feel fairly safe in making the assumption he was homeless.  Everything he was wearing was worn out from head to toe. Dirty long hair, and filthy hands with fingernails that hadn’t been clipped in months. He was pacing the sidewalk, obviously waiting for people to enter or leave the shop so he could ask for money. This was one of those times that I really wasn't feeling charitable, so I waited, and watched.

A couple of people walk right past him on their way in, and he shows no interest in stopping them.  He walks over to the trash can, and stares down into it for a while. Then, he leans over, putting his face in the can.  After about 10-15 seconds, he stands back up, then goes right back down, face first in the can.  The way he was situated, I couldn’t tell if he was reaching in the trash, or throwing up.  This time, he emerged with a discarded to-go box from some restaurant.  I thought, no way is he…..but quickly checked myself, thinking, dumbass, how do you think these people survive?  And after seeing homeless people pick cigarette butts off the ground, and light them up without hesitation, why did I even wonder? And with that, he opened it to find part of an uneaten hamburger and some fries.  He scarfed it down, made another quick rummage through the trash, and disappeared down the side of the building. 

I’m sure most of these people are in the situation they are simply from bad choices.  Others just had life roll over them.  But, I’m also sure that none of them want to have that lot in life.  I watched that unfold right in front of me, a man rifling through a trash can on a public street, finding a half-eaten hamburger, which may be his only “meal” of the day. And I wanted to avoid him, because he might ask me for a few dollars.  Probably going to be damn cold the next few nights.   
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wesfau2

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Re: It Just Hit Home
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2024, 03:55:41 PM »
We're all so much closer to being that guy than we are to being Bezos/Zuck/Musk on the net worth scale...and yet, for some reason, a large swath of our citizenry cultishly idolizes and rolls over for whatever those dipshits want to the detriment of making actual, useful change in our country.

Also, kudos on the self-reflection.  That's getting unfortunately more rare these days.
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You can keep a wooden stake in your trunk
On the off-chance that the fairy tales ain't bunk
And Imma keep a bottle of that funk
To get motel parking lot, balcony crunk.

WiregrassTiger

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Re: It Just Hit Home
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2024, 05:19:13 PM »
The first thing I do is ask these bums if they support Trump or Biden and tell them that they had better choose carefully.
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jmar

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Re: It Just Hit Home
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2024, 09:47:05 PM »
Back when I drove a truck I got good paying loads in the dead of winter mostly around I-80, Ohio and Pennsylvania. I recall hauling for Home Depot and JC Penneys then dropping an empty in various yards.
One morning in the wee hours I pull into a yard to drop a trailer, pick up a load and  had to beat on the landing gear to break the ice so I could roll it up. Seemed there was always 3 inches of snow on the ground wherever I was.
I saw a shadow moving at the rear of the trailer and braced myself expecting the worst.
I moved towards it and noticed it was a slight figure, a woman and she only had a light fleece jacket. It had to be at least 15 degrees. I shined the light on her and she just waved. I asked her why she was out there and she started signing.


She was petite, had tangled hair and would have been pretty cute I suppose had she cleaned up. I understood enough to know what she had in mind but I just told her to hop in the truck where it was warm. And we just sat there for maybe 30 minutes. Then I took her down the road dropped her at a roadside fuel stop and gave her maybe $30, whatever I had.


I was mostly a dick when I was working and would be approached at a fuel stop by the same people that didn't remember from a week earlier. And I would just give them the hand and tell them that's far enough.


Occaisionally when I had some time I would help anyone that told me they were hungry. I had a heap of points built up and would offer to buy them Wendy's, McDonalds, etc.


It was rare but I did give a few cash.
My old man always said you can't tell people how to spend their money.
I mean if I could waste 2 or 3 hours in a bar what's it gonna hurt to buy a complete stranger a drink? Not a damn thing.



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Kaos

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Re: It Just Hit Home
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2024, 09:54:01 PM »
Back when I drove a truck I got good paying loads in the dead of winter mostly around I-80, Ohio and Pennsylvania. I recall hauling for Home Depot and JC Penneys then dropping an empty in various yards.
One morning in the wee hours I pull into a yard to drop a trailer, pick up a load and  had to beat on the landing gear to break the ice so I could roll it up. Seemed there was always 3 inches of snow on the ground wherever I was.
I saw a shadow moving at the rear of the trailer and braced myself expecting the worst.
I moved towards it and noticed it was a slight figure, a woman and she only had a light fleece jacket. It had to be at least 15 degrees. I shined the light on her and she just waved. I asked her why she was out there and she started signing.


She was petite, had tangled hair and would have been pretty cute I suppose had she cleaned up. I understood enough to know what she had in mind but I just told her to hop in the truck where it was warm. And we just sat there for maybe 30 minutes. Then I took her down the road dropped her at a roadside fuel stop and gave her maybe $30, whatever I had.


I was mostly a dick when I was working and would be approached at a fuel stop by the same people that didn't remember from a week earlier. And I would just give them the hand and tell them that's far enough.


Occaisionally when I had some time I would help anyone that told me they were hungry. I had a heap of points built up and would offer to buy them Wendy's, McDonalds, etc.


It was rare but I did give a few cash.
My old man always said you can't tell people how to spend their money.
I mean if I could waste 2 or 3 hours in a bar what's it gonna hurt to buy a complete stranger a drink? Not a damn thing.

You paid $30 for head?  Man. It was usually only $15 - $20 at the truck stops I…..

Touching story, man.
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CCTAU

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Re: It Just Hit Home
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2024, 12:20:42 AM »
We're all so much closer to being that guy than we are to being Bezos/Zuck/Musk on the net worth scale...and yet, for some reason, a large swath of our citizenry cultishly idolizes and rolls over for whatever those dipshits want to the detriment of making actual, useful change in our country.

Also, kudos on the self-reflection.  That's getting unfortunately more rare these days.

I find useful change being where
I can make more, keep more, and afford to give more away.
There will always be the homeless and less fortunate. Why should I be forced to eventually be one of them!
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Five statements of WISDOM
1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity, by legislating the wealth out of prosperity.
2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.
3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.
5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friends, is the beginning of the end of any nation.

GH2001

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Re: It Just Hit Home
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2024, 02:11:54 PM »
We're all so much closer to being that guy than we are to being Bezos/Zuck/Musk on the net worth scale...and yet, for some reason, a large swath of our citizenry cultishly idolizes and rolls over for whatever those dipshits want to the detriment of making actual, useful change in our country.

Also, kudos on the self-reflection.  That's getting unfortunately more rare these days.

I'm like snags in the way that I really would love to help a lot of these folks, and feel terrible anyone gets in that state. But at the same time, I do worry about enabling the panhandling and making their issue *whatever it is* - worse. I am pretty certain most I encounter have substance issues. I am not going to make their situation worse than it already is by funding it. Thats why I often offer to buy them a meal or 2. I would say 80% of them decline it and just want money. At that point, I feel like I can rest easier having tried. I am not going to just hand over cash to a segment of the population that has a high % of substance/mental health issues.

Truthfully, they need help and I don't really know what the solution to it is short term. At some point they have to want help, you can't make them. There is a guy in downtown Columbus I see a few times a week. Big, Tall, older black guy. Hes pretty well known. Doesn't hurt anyone, doesn't beg, doesn't even bother folks. Hes been down there for a solid decade. Mainly keeps to himself. Hes the main exception I have run into, where he just kind of wants a meal and to be left alone. Hes got some mental issues but im almost positive he isn't on any substances. I like speaking to him and buying him a meal if hes up to it.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2024, 04:56:12 PM by GH2001 »
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wesfau2

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Re: It Just Hit Home
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2024, 02:46:05 PM »
I'm like snags in the way that I really would love to help a lot of these folks, and feel terrible anyone gets in that state. But at the same time, I do worry about enabling the panhandling and making their issue *whatever it is* - worse. I am pretty certain most I encounter have substance issues. I am not going to make their situation worse than it already by funding it. Thats why I often offer to buy them a meal or 2. I would say 80% of them decline it and just want money. At that point, I feel like I can rest easier having tried. I am not going to just hand over cash to a segment of the population that has a high % of substance/mental health issues.

Truthfully, they need help and I don't really know what the solution to it is short term. At some point they have to want help, you can't make them. There is a guy in downtown Columbus I see a few times a week. Big, Tall, older black guy. Hes pretty well known. Doesn't hurt anyone, doesn't beg, doesn't even bother folks. Hes been down there for a solid decade. Mainly keeps to himself. Hes the main exception I have run into, where he just kind of wants a meal and to be left alone. Hes got some mental issues but im almost positive he isn't on any substances. I like speaking to him and buying him a meal if hes up to it.

I'm not advocating for emptying your pockets to everyone who holds their hand out.  I'm saying that when you provide unhoused folks resources (medical care, housing, etc) it materially improves their lives and, in many cases, is the springboard back into some normalcy. 

But too often these scenarios/solutions are met with a refusal to allocate resources because "these junkies will just use it and the money is wasted."  Despite that not being the case in many instances.
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You can keep a wooden stake in your trunk
On the off-chance that the fairy tales ain't bunk
And Imma keep a bottle of that funk
To get motel parking lot, balcony crunk.

Kaos

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Re: It Just Hit Home
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2024, 03:20:53 PM »
I'm not advocating for emptying your pockets to everyone who holds their hand out.  I'm saying that when you provide unhoused folks resources (medical care, housing, etc) it materially improves their lives and, in many cases, is the springboard back into some normalcy. 

But too often these scenarios/solutions are met with a refusal to allocate resources because "these junkies will just use it and the money is wasted."  Despite that not being the case in many instances.

“In many instances”
 
Yet another apocryphal, unverified, feeling-based statement presented as fact. 

No. 

There are numerous homeless who live behind and near one of my businesses.  We see the same faces day after day.  The story is always the same.  “Need money for a hotel, fleeing abuse.”  “Need money to feed my baby.”  “Will you donate to my sports team, trying to get these guys some gear…”


My response is always the same.
“I have a ton of Hilton points. I can pay for a room for you.”   “I will to to the store and get what you need.”  “I will buy some shoes, socks, jerseys, what do you need?”

Every time they decline.  Every time.

So I realize that’s also apocryphal. But it’s been my experience nationwide that the vast majority of beggars fall into two categories: scammers and mental issues.

We used to be able to help those with mental issues by providing them medical care, housing, and food.  But guess what.  Liberals screamed that this was discrimination, so without a realistic alternative those places were closed.  That’s where the guy who sits outside the hotel grate and howls, where the fully naked woman, where the guy who crawls around and barks need to be. 

The scammers also need help.  They don’t need cash. They need rehab.  Or jail.  The ones that post the heartfelt “I hate to ask” stories on Facebook? Need to be jailed.  It’s fraud.

Giving people money only extends the suffering and exacerbates the problem. It’s the opposite of helping.   

When one accepts my offer of true assistance?  I’ll let you know. 

I remember when we were in NYC once.  Man on the street with a “hungry. Need food.” Sign.  My daughter, bleeding heart, wanted to give him her cash.  I convinced her to take half that money, go to McDonald’s and buy a bag of cheeseburgers.   When she took it and handed it to him, he looked in it and threw it back at her.  Screamed at her that he wanted to buy his own food, give him money.”

I hate to see people in sad shape.  Agree something needs to be done.  Disagree that handing out cash is ever the answer.
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Snaggletiger

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Re: It Just Hit Home
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2024, 03:40:14 PM »
Pleeeease don't take what I say here as a chance to open a political debate.  I am NOT a Trumper!  However, I loved the idea, the concept of putting America/Americans first. Borders, trade, jobs etc.  And when I see the unfettered flow of untold billions to BFE, and all points in between, I wonder how many problems we could address right here at home with that money? Homelessness, Hunger, our Veterans and on and on.  Instead, I see Congress playing partisan politics, arguing over how many billions we should send Ukraine this month.

I don't have the answers.  I'm not smart enough for that, but I do know our focus is totally F'd up.   
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WiregrassTiger

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Re: It Just Hit Home
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2024, 04:33:29 PM »

I don't have the answers.  I'm not smart enough
You have never said anything more right than this.
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GH2001

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Re: It Just Hit Home
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2024, 05:00:17 PM »
I'm not advocating for emptying your pockets to everyone who holds their hand out.  I'm saying that when you provide unhoused folks resources (medical care, housing, etc) it materially improves their lives and, in many cases, is the springboard back into some normalcy. 

But too often these scenarios/solutions are met with a refusal to allocate resources because "these junkies will just use it and the money is wasted."  Despite that not being the case in many instances.

Fair enough but...Meaning beyond Section 8, Medicare and Disability? I know a lot of stuff is there for those that need it. And again, I don't think anyone can make these folks go to the health dept or live in those apts funded by HUD. So outside of making folks do those things, what else can we really do? I hear what you are saying but I seriously don't know of a good solution here.
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GH2001

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Re: It Just Hit Home
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2024, 05:07:21 PM »
Pleeeease don't take what I say here as a chance to open a political debate.

Unfortunately, with HUD and Medicare, the issue is almost always gonna be tied to the govt in some way. It's an issue I wish we didn't even have.
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Kaos

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Re: It Just Hit Home
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2024, 05:16:56 PM »
Pleeeease don't take what I say here as a chance to open a political debate.  I am NOT a Trumper! However, I loved the idea, the concept of putting America/Americans first. Borders, trade, jobs etc.  And when I see the unfettered flow of untold billions to BFE, and all points in between, I wonder how many problems we could address right here at home with that money? Homelessness, Hunger, our Veterans and on and on.  Instead, I see Congress playing partisan politics, arguing over how many billions we should send Ukraine this month.

I don't have the answers.  I'm not smart enough for that, but I do know our focus is totally F'd up.

It ain't over yet, pal.
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Kaos

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Re: It Just Hit Home
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2024, 06:14:27 PM »
Unfortunately, with HUD and Medicare, the issue is almost always gonna be tied to the govt in some way. It's an issue I wish we didn't even have.

That's the problem.  Government needs to get out. 

Secure the borders. Take the money we send Ukraine and everywhere else in the world, take the money we use to support propaganda like NPR, etc. and give it back to the people it was stolen from.  Like me.  And you. 

Anything government takes control of only becomes bloated and ineffective. Cede control to the states the states to the communities. 

That's the start. 
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WiregrassTiger

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Re: It Just Hit Home
« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2024, 09:55:03 PM »
It ain't over yet, pal.
Don’t waste your breath. We don’t need the gay vote, anyway. Fuck him.
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wesfau2

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Re: It Just Hit Home
« Reply #16 on: January 15, 2024, 11:13:41 AM »
Plenty of studies out there if you want to educate yourself on the tangible, empirical improvement in people's lives when you take away housing, food and income insecurity.  Not feelings nor anecdotes, though those are available in spades right here in this thread.

Also, re: foreign aid going to BFE and the US ignoring those at home: we spend about 1.2% of our ENTIRE budget on foreign aid...total. 

Could we be doing more at home?  Fuck yes!  Can we afford to help those in need abroad?  Fuck yes!  And we should.
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You can keep a wooden stake in your trunk
On the off-chance that the fairy tales ain't bunk
And Imma keep a bottle of that funk
To get motel parking lot, balcony crunk.

Kaos

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Re: It Just Hit Home
« Reply #17 on: January 15, 2024, 01:54:02 PM »
Plenty of studies out there if you want to educate yourself on the tangible, empirical improvement in people's lives when you take away housing, food and income insecurity.  Not feelings nor anecdotes, though those are available in spades right here in this thread.

Also, re: foreign aid going to BFE and the US ignoring those at home: we spend about 1.2% of our ENTIRE budget on foreign aid...total. 

Could we be doing more at home?  Fuck yes!  Can we afford to help those in need abroad?  Fuck yes!  And we should.

All wrong.  Completely wrong. 

You want a society completely dependent on government for their basic needs.  A compliant, obedient populace kept in the dark. 

There are no valid “studies” that can legitimately suggest that handing people things without requiring work or some other contribution will cause people to try harder, to work harder, to try to improve their station. They don’t.  They breed complacency and destroy initiative.

Your sham studies are bogus and designed to socially engineer a result that is an anathema to those of us who still believe in the American way of life. 

You want to see what a lifetime of handouts does to a society? Check out the Native American population.  A ruling elite plus a massive underclass of zombies. 
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Re: It Just Hit Home
« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2024, 11:11:30 AM »
All wrong.  Completely wrong. 

You want a society completely dependent on government for their basic needs.  A compliant, obedient populace kept in the dark. 

There are no valid “studies” that can legitimately suggest that handing people things without requiring work or some other contribution will cause people to try harder, to work harder, to try to improve their station. They don’t.  They breed complacency and destroy initiative.

Your sham studies are bogus and designed to socially engineer a result that is an anathema to those of us who still believe in the American way of life. 

You want to see what a lifetime of handouts does to a society? Check out the Native American population.  A ruling elite plus a massive underclass of zombies.

You're carrying a mighty broad brush on the issue.  There's validity to the points that you've made.  I'll even concede the majority of that particular demographic falls into the category of sitting back, relaxing, and taking the help with no intentions of climbing out. 

However, there are people that would do better with a little help.  Those are the ones that make it worth it.  To quote the great Jackie Moon, "E.L.E."! 

I once had a similar experience to yours in NYC trying to hand a homeless man a steak quesadilla.  He shoved it back towards me and told me to fuck off.  A few seconds later, I saw another homeless man that graciously took the meal and asked me to pray with him.  Worth it.
   
« Last Edit: January 16, 2024, 11:17:45 AM by Snakebite »
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Kaos

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Re: It Just Hit Home
« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2024, 11:59:05 AM »
You're carrying a mighty broad brush on the issue.  There's validity to the points that you've made.  I'll even concede the majority of that particular demographic falls into the category of sitting back, relaxing, and taking the help with no intentions of climbing out. 

However, there are people that would do better with a little help.  Those are the ones that make it worth it.  To quote the great Jackie Moon, "E.L.E."! 

I once had a similar experience to yours in NYC trying to hand a homeless man a steak quesadilla.  He shoved it back towards me and told me to fuck off.  A few seconds later, I saw another homeless man that graciously took the meal and asked me to pray with him.  Worth it.
 

You're completely missing the point.  I don't deny that there are some who need temporary help in order to overcome short-term issues.  I also don't deny there is an entire class of people who need medical/mental health assistance. Those people shouldn't be on the street. It's NOT helping them to hand them cash. No matter how altruistic your intent.

I'm way older than you.  I guaranTEE you without a shadow of a doubt I've spent more time working in government housing sites and with people on government assistance than you or anyone else on this board.  In a prior life, I built an entire business that catered to that market. 

Have you ever sat in the grease and roach-infested kitchen of a second-generation family on public assistance?  I've done that thousands of times.  Ever listened in as a mom told her 16-year old daughter (who already had one kid) that she needed to have another one because they "needed that check" even as she signed off to pay my company $27 a week for 18 months for a washer-dryer set (she already had a TV, VCR, stereo and living room set from us). 

Ever watched a nice apartment complex turn into a war zone within a year of being designated Section 8? I've seen it numerous times.   

Yes, people need help.  We need to reform the system and figure out a way to cull the grifters who provide nothing in exchange for a government subsidized life. 

People like Wes don't want that.  They're fine with an entire class of people who will live and die without ever contributing a thing to society while they take, take, take, take, take and then bitch and moan about how they don't get enough.  Why?  Because those people vote for people who promise them more free shit - and then rarely deliver.  Those freebies assuage the massive (and unreasonable) amount of white guilt  that burdens people like Wes. 

Thing is?  I don't care how much of HIS money he gives to people or causes. I don't care if he takes every dime he makes and flings it out the window at "stolen valor" veterans begging for cash on every street corner.  I do care when he demands I do the same, and then when I don't at a level he thinks is appropriate, he and his ilk beg the corrupt government to steal more from me in order to fund things I don't support -- like handout programs. 

The problem is that the grifters and the addicts make up 90-95% of the people "in need."  You cannot help them - any of them - and you cannot benefit society by GIVING them more.  We should know that by now.
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If you want free cheese, look in a mousetrap.