Urban going down in flames? - Yep

[Snaggletiger]

On a side note, how much of a stretch is it to apply Title IX to this situation?  Here's the basic premise of Title IX. 

Title IX Defined. No person in the United States shall, on the basis of sex, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any education program or activity receiving federal financial assistance. (Title IX of the Education Amendments of 1972)

I know the Courts have expanded it drastically, but how do you get to Title IX with a guy beating his wife, who unless I missed something, is not a school employee? Admittedly, I might have missed that part.  If I did, then fuck me. 

[Kaos]

On a side note, how much of a stretch is it to apply Title IX to this situation?  Here's the basic premise of Title IX.

Title IX Defined. No person in the United States shall, on the basis of sex, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any education program or activity receiving federal financial assistance. (Title IX of the Education Amendments of 1972)

I know the Courts have expanded it drastically, but how do you get to Title IX with a guy beating his wife, who unless I missed something, is not a school employee? Admittedly, I might have missed that part.  If I did, then fuck me.

Can I just punch you out a little bit, go win some football games and not tell anybody?  

I guess we could have sex afterward. 

[CCTAU]

Title IX not applicable to Shelly!

Therefore if they can’t prove urban knew, then not applicable to him neither!

[wesfau2]

Title IX not applicable to Shelly!

Therefore if they can’t prove urban knew, then not applicable to him neither!

She's an employee of the university.  It totally applies to her.  Don't be a tard.

[chityeah]

She's an employee of the university.  It totally applies to her.  Don't be a tard.

But who have they discrimanated against? 

[Kaos]

The piling on begins: 

http://larrybrownsports.com/college-football/allegations-player-mistreatment-urban-meyer/457990

[The Six]

The piling on begins:

http://larrybrownsports.com/college-football/allegations-player-mistreatment-urban-meyer/457990

Yeah.

He gone.

[Buzz Killington]

It's like I post it yesterday and then you see it today.

[Snaggletiger]

But who have they discrimanated against?

That's my question.  If Courtney Smith is not a student or employee of the University, then I think may be wrongly throwing the Title IX blanket over this issue.  (Again, I have no clue what she does and I'm not reading that long piece again to hopefully find out) 

Still, I'm 100% certain Urban, or any coach for that matter, has an obligation to report that one of his hires has allegedly been beating the hell out of his wife...again.

[Kaos]

That's my question.  If Courtney Smith is not a student or employee of the University, then I think may be wrongly throwing the Title IX blanket over this issue.  (Again, I have no clue what she does and I'm not reading that long piece again to hopefully find out) 

Still, I'm 100% certain Urban, or any coach for that matter, has an obligation to report that one of his hires has allegedly been beating the hell out of his wife...again.

I believe judge Wes has already ruled.  

Isn’t your ass already full? 

[CCTAU]

Title IX not applicable to Shelley in this case! Specific rules state who is and who is not a mandatory reporter. If she does not have supervisory duties, then she is not a mandatory reporter. If that is the case, then Title IX does not apply.

Therefore if they can’t prove urban knew, then not applicable to him neither!

[Godfather]

I've thought about this and had more discussions about it, and I have changed my stance....see peoples minds can change.

First I like Snags delved into the Title IX requirements.  I can find no instance of Domestic Abuse being involved in any Title IX requirements.  Now there is a discussion of sexual abuse, however, this also deals strictly with athletes themselves or female students.  So now I'm not understanding why Urban would be required to report anything, unless there is something specifically in his contract and I'm not looking through that.  To me this changes things a ton.  If he isn't required to report things, then he has no obligation to anyone.

Secondly,  I still think the guy is a complete piece of shit for beating his wife. However, I kept thinking about this as if the people in the situation had no alternate decisions and they all did.

I'm not blaming her at all.  However, even as a victim, she had a decision.  After the 2009 incident, she chose to stay with the sob.  That was her decision.  Why was it Urban Meyer's responsibility to fire him? He was never charged. 

What would the end result of Meyer firing him be? 

Again, I'm not saying she was responsible....AT ALL.  Again I just wonder what firing him would have solved.

For my own morality if I was boss I would like to think that I would fire an employee who beat his wife. Then I thought well what if that employee was my best friend.  It isn't the same.  CCTAU and Kaos you guys are right, not that there necessarily is a wrong or right, in this situation.

Firing Kevin Smith would not have stopped him from beating his wife.  What is the end game?  $$$$$$$?


So if they fire Meyer you have a loss of a program, college athletes who came for Meyer, numerous people who no longer have a job.  Because of the decisions made by 2 individuals.  A guy that beat up his wife and a wife that chose to stay.

[Kaos]

I've thought about this and had more discussions about it, and I have changed my stance....see peoples minds can change.

First I like Snags delved into the Title IX requirements.  I can find no instance of Domestic Abuse being involved in any Title IX requirements.  Now there is a discussion of sexual abuse, however, this also deals strictly with athletes themselves or female students.  So now I'm not understanding why Urban would be required to report anything, unless there is something specifically in his contract and I'm not looking through that.  To me this changes things a ton. 

Secondly,  I still think the guy is a complete piece of shit for beating his wife. However, I kept thinking about this as if the people in the situation had no alternate decisions and they all did.

I'm not blaming her at all.  However, even as a victim, she had a decision.  After the 2009 incident, she chose to stay with the sob.  That was her decision.  Why was it Urban Meyer's responsibility to fire him? He was never charged. 

What would the end result of Meyer firing him be? 

Again, I'm not saying she was responsible....AT ALL.  Again I just wonder what firing him would have solved.

For my own morality if I was boss I would like to think that I would fire an employee who beat his wife. Then I thought well what if that employee was my best friend.  It isn't the same.  CCTAU and Kaos you guys are right, not that there necessarily is a wrong or right, in this situation.

Firing Kevin Smith would not have stopped him from beating his wife.  What is the end game?  $$$$$$$?

I seen a lot of people hate on me and I didn't know what to feel about that so I guess they didn't like much nothin' either. During this fight, I've seen a lot of changing, the way you felt about me, and in the way I felt about you. In here, there were two guys killing each other, but I guess that's better than 20 million. I guess what I'm trying to say, is that if I can change, and you can change, everybody can change!

My only real position in this was that the instantaneous, hyperbolic, pants-shitting outrage and condemnation is a problem.  Not for Urban Meyer, necessarily, but for everybody in this oh-my-god-i'm-triggered-and-suffused-with-indignation society.  

[Buzz Killington]

I seen a lot of people hate on me and I didn't know what to feel about that so I guess they didn't like much nothin' either. During this fight, I've seen a lot of changing, the way you felt about me, and in the way I felt about you. In here, there were two guys killing each other, but I guess that's better than 20 million. I guess what I'm trying to say, is that if I can change, and you can change, everybody can change!

My only real position in this was that the instantaneous, hyperbolic, pants-shootting outrage and condemnation is a problem.  Not for Urban Meyer, necessarily, but for everybody in this oh-my-god-i'm-triggered-and-suffused-with-indignation society. 

You tell 'em Rock.

[Snaggletiger]

I've thought about this and had more discussions about it, and I have changed my stance....see peoples minds can change.

First I like Snags delved into the Title IX requirements.  I can find no instance of Domestic Abuse being involved in any Title IX requirements.  Now there is a discussion of sexual abuse, however, this also deals strictly with athletes themselves or female students.  So now I'm not understanding why Urban would be required to report anything, unless there is something specifically in his contract and I'm not looking through that.  To me this changes things a ton.  If he isn't required to report things, then he has no obligation to anyone.

Secondly,  I still think the guy is a complete piece of shit for beating his wife. However, I kept thinking about this as if the people in the situation had no alternate decisions and they all did.

I'm not blaming her at all.  However, even as a victim, she had a decision.  After the 2009 incident, she chose to stay with the sob.  That was her decision.  Why was it Urban Meyer's responsibility to fire him? He was never charged. 

What would the end result of Meyer firing him be? 

Again, I'm not saying she was responsible....AT ALL.  Again I just wonder what firing him would have solved.

For my own morality if I was boss I would like to think that I would fire an employee who beat his wife. Then I thought well what if that employee was my best friend.  It isn't the same.  CCTAU and Kaos you guys are right, not that there necessarily is a wrong or right, in this situation.

Firing Kevin Smith would not have stopped him from beating his wife.  What is the end game?  $$$$$$$?


So if they fire Meyer you have a loss of a program, college athletes who came for Meyer, numerous people who no longer have a job.  Because of the decisions made by 2 individuals.  A guy that beat up his wife and a wife that chose to stay.

But go back to my question.  Who says this is a Title IX issue at all?  That's being thrown about as if it's set in concrete.  Was Paterno/Sandusky a Title IX issue?  The very nature of Sandusky's crime makes it seem like that's in a whole different universe than this.  But at it's very core, the situations are identical. Just assume for a second that Meyer knew about it in 2015. Sandusky was raping little boys.  Not students.  Little boys.  Crime.  Paterno allegedly knew and did not take it through proper channels.  Fired/disgraced.  Smith was beating the hell out of his wife.  Crime.  Urban knew and didn't go through any channels at all and lied about it to the press on top of that. 

The nature of the crime makes no difference.  Sandusky was Paterno's hire, just as Smith was for Meyer.  They both committed crimes and neither head coach reported to their superiors.  One thing that we may be overlooking is that regardless of it being a Title IX issue or not, it may be part of Meyer's employment contract to report crimes or even suspicion of crimes in his program.  I'd wager that it damn well is part of his contract and every other head coach in the country. 

[Kaos]

But go back to my question.  Who says this is a Title IX issue at all?  That's being thrown about as if it's set in concrete.  Was Paterno/Sandusky a Title IX issue?  The very nature of Sandusky's crime makes it seem like that's in a whole different universe than this.  But at it's very core, the situations are identical. Just assume for a second that Meyer knew about it in 2015. Sandusky was raping little boys.  Not students.  Little boys.  Crime.  Paterno allegedly knew and did not take it through proper channels.  Fired/disgraced.  Smith was beating the hell out of his wife.  Crime.  Urban knew and didn't go through any channels at all and lied about it to the press on top of that.

The nature of the crime makes no difference.  Sandusky was Paterno's hire, just as Smith was for Meyer.  They both committed crimes and neither head coach reported to their superiors.  One thing that we may be overlooking is that regardless of it being a Title IX issue or not, it may be part of Meyer's employment contract to report crimes or even suspicion of crimes in his program.  I'd wager that it damn well is part of his contract and every other head coach in the country.

If she's not charging the husband with a crime and all he's got are apocryphal "he and Courtney are having trouble" rumors...... I'm telling you, nobody knows what's truly going on inside somebody's marriage except the two involved in it.  

No, no, no, no, no, no.  I'm not riding this pony again.  Get off the pony.  

[CCTAU]

My only real position in this was that the instantaneous, hyperbolic, pants-shitting outrage and condemnation is a problem.  Not for Urban Meyer, necessarily, but for everybody in this oh-my-god-i'm-triggered-and-suffused-with-indignation society. 

Nobody wants to wait for all of the information to come out. They just want to hang a bitch!

Its all good till you're that bitch they want to hang!

[Godfather]

Sandusky was raping little boys.  Not students.  Little boys.  Crime.  Paterno allegedly knew and did not take it through proper channels.  Fired/disgraced.  Smith was beating the hell out of his wife.  Crime.  Urban knew and didn't go through any channels at all and lied about it to the press on top of that.

The nature of the crime makes no difference.  Sandusky was Paterno's hire, just as Smith was for Meyer.  They both committed crimes and neither head coach reported to their superiors.  One thing that we may be overlooking is that regardless of it being a Title IX issue or not, it may be part of Meyer's employment contract to report crimes or even suspicion of crimes in his program.  I'd wager that it damn well is part of his contract and every other head coach in the country.

Can't compare them, not even close.  Only in the fact that both Head Coaches claim they knew nothing and there is some proof that they might have but maybe not.

Nature of the crime does make a difference.  Kids are not able to defend themselves, kids are not able to make decisions like adults. Abusing a kid sexually or otherwise is illegal.  Beating your wife, if she doesn't press charges, is not. 

Totally....totally polar opposite offenses. 

If Joe Pa knew kids were being raped on campus, in his complex, and did nothing should be fired. NOT A QUESTION.  Hell he should be put in jail.

Assuming Title IX doesn't apply, which I no longer see how it does.  If Meyer knew that Smith was abusing his wife, and it didn't happen in the complex, or in front of him and she doesn't press charges...I don't see how he is liable.  Lie or not

Perception is not a fireable offense

[CCTAU]

Perception is not a fireable offense

[Kaos]

It's like I post it yesterday and then you see it today.

Soooooory. I was busy yesterday measuring my ass to see if the condescension would fit up there.  Didn’t catch your post. 

Got an appointment with a doctor this afternoon because the space is limited what with all the snark, pity, obscene gestures and car horns jammed up there already.