Philando Castile

[Token]

Yet another police officer acquitted of charges stemming from a shooting death.  Are juries really that against convicting a police officer or is this yet another case of the media distorting the actual facts of the case?

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/06/16/us/police-shooting-trial-philando-castile.html

[WiregrassTiger]

Based on what I have seen and read, this was definitely a wrongful death. I don't know what the question was in this case. Did the officer murder him? Like the article points out, Crucial actions of the "reaching" would need to be addressed and aren't in the video. It looks like involuntary at a minimum to me, so far.

Probably boils down to prejudice and good lawyering.

Unfortunately, the right is likely to be blamed and this turned into a political fight rather than one for justice.

Sad incident for sure.

[Buzz Killington]

St. Paul up in flames in 3....2.....1

[AUChizad]

This never got discussed, but anyone see this video?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/06/21/what-the-police-officer-who-shot-philando-castile-said-about-the-shooting/?utm_term=.0db44af1cd8f

I would like to pick Token's brain on it.

From where I'm sitting? 99% of these cases are nuanced, but in the end I settle on the officer being justifiably innocent of charges levied against them due to the nature of the job they're being asked to do. This one? I don't see it, man. What could Castile have done differently? He immediately told the officer he had a firearm that he was licensed to carry, and the officer asked for his ID, which he was providing as he repeatedly explained that this was what he was doing, and the dude unloads 20 shots into him with his baby girl in the backseat and girlfriend or whatever in the passenger seat.

It is fucking tough to watch. I can't understand how he got off without even so much as a manslaughter charge. Like I said, I can sympathize with the officers most of the time, but I don't want to live in a country where police have the latitude to do this to citizens with zero repercussions.

[Token]

This never got discussed, but anyone see this video?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/06/21/what-the-police-officer-who-shot-philando-castile-said-about-the-shooting/?utm_term=.0db44af1cd8f

I would like to pick Token's brain on it.

From where I'm sitting? 99% of these cases are nuanced, but in the end I settle on the officer being justifiably innocent of charges levied against them due to the nature of the job they're being asked to do. This one? I don't see it, man. What could Castile have done differently? He immediately told the officer he had a firearm that he was licensed to carry, and the officer asked for his ID, which he was providing as he repeatedly explained that this was what he was doing, and the dude unloads 20 shots into him with his baby girl in the backseat and girlfriend or whatever in the passenger seat.

It is fucking tough to watch. I can't understand how he got off without even so much as a manslaughter charge. Like I said, I can sympathize with the officers most of the time, but I don't want to live in a country where police have the latitude to do this to citizens with zero repercussions.

It's hard for me to make assumptions based off video because I've seen numerous body/dash camera videos that didn't show everything and sometimes looked completely different than what actually happened. 

But, If I'm on that jury and ONLY have video and audio to look at I convict him of manslaughter.  There is a possibility that maybe his actions and his words didn't coincide.  Maybe he was pulling the gun in an aggressive manner.  I think the most telling part of that video though is the officer assisting.  He's standing next to the passenger and never becomes alarmed by what he is doing.  So yeah, looks guilty.  But hard to say without all of the evidence.

With that said, I think the not guilty verdict is more of a statement by the jury against the BLM than it was about the actual case in front of them.  We've allowed politics to bleed over into our judicial system and this is the blowback.   

[Kaos]

This never got discussed, but anyone see this video?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/06/21/what-the-police-officer-who-shot-philando-castile-said-about-the-shooting/?utm_term=.0db44af1cd8f

I would like to pick Token's brain on it.

From where I'm sitting? 99% of these cases are nuanced, but in the end I settle on the officer being justifiably innocent of charges levied against them due to the nature of the job they're being asked to do. This one? I don't see it, man. What could Castile have done differently? He immediately told the officer he had a firearm that he was licensed to carry, and the officer asked for his ID, which he was providing as he repeatedly explained that this was what he was doing, and the dude unloads 20 shots into him with his baby girl in the backseat and girlfriend or whatever in the passenger seat.

It is fucking tough to watch. I can't understand how he got off without even so much as a manslaughter charge. Like I said, I can sympathize with the officers most of the time, but I don't want to live in a country where police have the latitude to do this to citizens with zero repercussions.

Washington Post! 

(sorry)

[Snaggletiger]

That shit was wrong.  Officer should have been convicted.  I have no clue what the jury was looking at.  However, let me say something about trials/juries.  It only takes one to F it all up.  One person who looks at it differently....is prejudiced...has some bias etc.  When I saw that video, I just said DAAAAAAMMMNNN!!!!

That was wrong!

[AUChizad]

Washington Post! 

(sorry)

Dude...You don't even have to read it. I was posting the video. Don't believe your lyin' eyes, I guess since WaPo hosts the video...

 

[CCTAU]

Just think how bad the rioting would be if the officer was white.


As we cannot see into the car, and as we have seen many times in the past, the passengers/friends always tells the truth(hands up. Don't shoot), I'm not sure what happened.


I just know that when I am pulled over, my gun is nowhere near me!

[AUChizad]

Just think how bad the rioting would be if the officer was white.


As we cannot see into the car, and as we have seen many times in the past, the passengers/friends always tells the truth(hands up. Don't shoot), I'm not sure what happened.


I just know that when I am pulled over, my gun is nowhere near me!

The cop's own testimony was that he shot him for reaching into his breast pocket "in a C shape" after he told him to show him his license. He thought the "C shape" indicated he was reaching for a gun. Of course, that also is exactly how you would reach for you wallet, and given the fact that he specifically asked him to show his license, it is far more reasonable to assume he was pulling out his wallet from a breast pocket than a gun that he also respectfully declared that he had in the car.

If the officer was testifying that he was actually reaching for a gun, or anything counter whatsoever to what was tracked in the audio, the visual might make some sort of difference.

As it stands, it does not.

[Token]

After reading a lot of the testimony in the trial I have no fucking clue how he was found not guilty.  But I agree with Snaggle.  You can't ever predict or trust what a jury will do. 

That is manslaughter all day long.

[AUChizad]

From where I sit the only way you can simultaneously hold the beliefs that the officer was justified and support a citizen's 2nd Amendment right to carry firearms is to be flagrantly racist. I see no other explanation in this case.

[Kaos]

Dude...You don't even have to read it. I was posting the video. Don't believe your lyin' eyes, I guess since WaPo hosts the video...

 

Joke. Cannot take one. 

 

[Godfather]

This never got discussed, but anyone see this video?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/06/21/what-the-police-officer-who-shot-philando-castile-said-about-the-shooting/?utm_term=.0db44af1cd8f

I would like to pick Token's brain on it.

From where I'm sitting? 99% of these cases are nuanced, but in the end I settle on the officer being justifiably innocent of charges levied against them due to the nature of the job they're being asked to do. This one? I don't see it, man. What could Castile have done differently? He immediately told the officer he had a firearm that he was licensed to carry, and the officer asked for his ID, which he was providing as he repeatedly explained that this was what he was doing, and the dude unloads 20 shots into him with his baby girl in the backseat and girlfriend or whatever in the passenger seat.

It is fucking tough to watch. I can't understand how he got off without even so much as a manslaughter charge. Like I said, I can sympathize with the officers most of the time, but I don't want to live in a country where police have the latitude to do this to citizens with zero repercussions.

Only addressing one part of what you brought up but ...

One of the first things we were taught in concealed carry class.  If an officer asks for your id, and you are carrying let him get the id.  Keep your hands on the steering wheel at all times.  Tell the officer where the gun is and inform I'm that you will not be reaching for your id that he needs to get it.

IMO I don't care if he gives you a direct command to get your ID I'm not going for it.  Let him get it. 

I'm not really arguing specifics of this particular incident, but you have got to be smart when you are carrying a weapon.  Especially if you declare to the officer that you have one.  (which by the way you do not have to do.)

[AUChizad]

Only addressing one part of what you brought up but ...

One of the first things we were taught in concealed carry class.  If an officer asks for your id, and you are carrying let him get the id.  Keep your hands on the steering wheel at all times.  Tell the officer where the gun is and inform I'm that you will not be reaching for your id that he needs to get it.

IMO I don't care if he gives you a direct command to get your ID I'm not going for it.  Let him get it. 

I'm not really arguing specifics of this particular incident, but you have got to be smart when you are carrying a weapon.  Especially if you declare to the officer that you have one.  (which by the way you do not have to do.)

I don't disagree with any of this as best practices, and given the benefit of hindsight (or with specific training in this area), it's easy to say you should disobey what the officer is directly ordering you to do.

It does not fall into negligence on Castile's part to try to obey every one of the officer's commands while he's being pulled over, certainly not to the point that he should just expect to be killed for it.

What you're saying is a great survival guide to try to remember if you're in that situation like punch a shark in the nose, or play dead to a grizzly bear, but in those cases and this one, it's counterintuitive and not a natural instinct. And police should be held to higher standards than predatory wild animals.

[AUChizad]

Also...

Tell the officer where the gun is and inform I'm that you will not be reaching for your id that he needs to get it.

If he didn't believe him when he said he had a gun in the car but he was reaching for his wallet, it does not stand to reason he would be more apt to believe him if he was more specific about the location of the gun.

Especially if you declare to the officer that you have one.  (which by the way you do not have to do.)

He declared he had it in an attempt to de-escalate the situation. Clearly that didn't work. If the officer found the gun on his own without Castile being upfront about it, likely would not have ended any better. Or at least, one would not think so. Clearly he didn't think so.

[CCTAU]

Only addressing one part of what you brought up but ...

One of the first things we were taught in concealed carry class.  If an officer asks for your id, and you are carrying let him get the id.  Keep your hands on the steering wheel at all times.  Tell the officer where the gun is and inform I'm that you will not be reaching for your id that he needs to get it.

IMO I don't care if he gives you a direct command to get your ID I'm not going for it.  Let him get it. 

I'm not really arguing specifics of this particular incident, but you have got to be smart when you are carrying a weapon.  Especially if you declare to the officer that you have one.  (which by the way you do not have to do.)

Unless the officer is racist!

[Token]

I touched on this in another thread and I maintain that LEO jobs aren't for everyone.  The law we are sworn to uphold is black and white but 90% of the job is in a gray area.  The best people suited for law enforcement are people who want nothing to do with it.  The worst possible people for law enforcement you probably see every day when they are off duty.  Thin blue line bracelets, thin blue line punisher skull and wearing police shit every day of their life.  Something is wrong with those people.

I could write a thesis on this thread spelling out for yall all the problems in law enforcement personnel right now but I'll spare you the read.  End of the day, that officer was terrified.  Scared for his life even before he made that traffic stop.  He wasn't prepared to deal with what he perceived to be a threat.  He wasn't prepared to shoot someone he believed was about to kill him and he wasn't prepared for the results of firing his weapon multiple times into the chest of another person.  You could see it in his reasoning, you could see it in his actions and you could hear it in his voice afterward.  That guy had no business in the LE field and unfortunately someone who shouldn't have been shot is now dead.

[CCTAU]

From where I sit the only way you can simultaneously hold the beliefs that the officer was justified and support a citizen's 2nd Amendment right to carry firearms is to be flagrantly racist. I see no other explanation in this case.

You are what's wrong with society today. You have bought into the lie that as long as the victim is black, ITS RACISM!

Did you see the NON-WHITE officer? SO now EVERYBODY hates the po ole black mans?

We have no idea what truly happened. This officer may well be an idiot and pulled the trigger too quick.

But like I said, when I get pulled over, my gun is not seen and my wallet is already out. Both sides have a responsibility to make the other side feel no threat.

I have been pulled over many times with a gun in the car. The officer never knew and I never acted aggressive. We both moved right along without incident. And OMG, I have been pulled over by black cops too.


Stop perpetrating the lie that it is always the poor black victims. These things happen to other races also. You just do not hear about it.

[CCTAU]

I touched on this in another thread and I maintain that LEO jobs aren't for everyone.  The law we are sworn to uphold is black and white but 90% of the job is in a gray area.  The best people suited for law enforcement are people who want nothing to do with it.  The worst possible people for law enforcement you probably see every day when they are off duty.  Thin blue line bracelets, thin blue line punisher skull and wearing police shit every day of their life.  Something is wrong with those people.

I could write a thesis on this thread spelling out for yall all the problems in law enforcement personnel right now but I'll spare you the read.  End of the day, that officer was terrified.  Scared for his life even before he made that traffic stop.  He wasn't prepared to deal with what he perceived to be a threat.  He wasn't prepared to shoot someone he believed was about to kill him and he wasn't prepared for the results of firing his weapon multiple times into the chest of another person.  You could see it in his reasoning, you could see it in his actions and you could hear it in his voice afterward.  That guy had no business in the LE field and unfortunately someone who shouldn't have been shot is now dead.

But does that make these people racist? Or just unfit for the job?

Because we cannot even discuss this issue due to all of the racism talk that smothers the conversation.