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Health Care

Kaos

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Re: Health Care
« Reply #240 on: March 16, 2017, 10:53:24 AM »

Fair.  We've gotten a little sidetracked on this argument.

I concede the the fundamentals of economics still apply (supply, demand, etc), but that any illusion that the free marketplace still exists is faulty. As such, if we're already in a managed market, then I find objection to further managing of the marketplace to be specious.

Horseshit.
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wesfau2

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Re: Health Care
« Reply #241 on: March 16, 2017, 10:55:44 AM »
Horseshit.

Love it when you play the classics.
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AUChizad

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Re: Health Care
« Reply #242 on: March 16, 2017, 10:56:30 AM »

Fair.  We've gotten a little sidetracked on this argument.

I concede the the fundamentals of economics still apply (supply, demand, etc), but that any illusion that the free marketplace still exists is faulty.  As such, if we're already in a managed market, then I find objection to further managing of the marketplace to be specious.
We currently have a government and that government regulates, and therefore in the current government we're in, we do not operate under pure unregulated free market. This is true, and I don't think anyone would argue otherwise. There are those that would argue we should operate in an unregulated market. There are many more that think we should at least nudge closer to that side of the spectrum, for sure.

I think we're hung up on semantics, because none of this negates the concept of a "free market" existing or disproves its purpose or power.
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wesfau2

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Re: Health Care
« Reply #243 on: March 16, 2017, 10:59:10 AM »
There are those that would argue we should operate in an unregulated market.

If I sniffed this argument and chased the bunny erroneously, then I apologize for getting us off track.
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AUChizad

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Re: Health Care
« Reply #244 on: March 16, 2017, 11:09:08 AM »
If I sniffed this argument and chased the bunny erroneously, then I apologize for getting us off track.
I'm sure plenty here are arguing that, and I myself am certainly among those that think shifting us further to that side of the spectrum would be beneficial.

Again, I think what hung everyone up is saying the principle of a "free market" doesn't exist just because we don't currently live in a state of economic anarchy.
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Kaos

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Re: Health Care
« Reply #245 on: March 16, 2017, 11:17:11 AM »
We currently have a government and that government regulates, and therefore in the current government we're in, we do not operate under pure unregulated free market. This is true, and I don't think anyone would argue otherwise. There are those that would argue we should operate in an unregulated market. There are many more that think we should at least nudge closer to that side of the spectrum, for sure.

I think we're hung up on semantics, because none of this negates the concept of a "free market" existing or disproves its purpose or power.

So many many words when a simple "horseshit" would have done. 

That said, however, this is exactly what the obtuse jackassity was attempting to obscure.  Nobody said "free market" meant total melee. 

Spirit of competition, principles of free enterprise, basics of capitalism -- all at play, all should be at play.  That's all anybody was trying to say before somebody semanticized the whole thing to death. 

Where I disagree with wes completely and entirely is that the principles of the free market SHOULD and DO apply to healthcare. 

People should have a choice in terms of what insurance options they take, what doctors they visit, what preventative care measures they follow, what prescriptions they purchase, etc.  The best way to drive those costs down and improve the level of service/care is to apply the basic principles of competition.  If you're a doctor and want to make more?  Be the best motherfucker out there.  People will pay. 

When all that is government (mis)managed the only result is higher costs, lowered quality and restricted access.   

That needs to stop. 
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AUChizad

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Re: Health Care
« Reply #246 on: March 16, 2017, 11:25:45 AM »
So many many words when a simple "horseshit" would have done. 
Stop doing this. It adds nothing constructive whatsoever to the conversation. The rest of your post, absent that line, did.
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Godfather

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Re: Health Care
« Reply #247 on: March 16, 2017, 11:27:00 AM »
Is it a TOTALLY free market?  No it is not a TOTALLY free market.  If it were I could go down the street and hack my competitor to death with a machete. 

I'm pretty sure in Russia you can do that. This isn't Russia, Is this Russia?
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Kaos

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Re: Health Care
« Reply #248 on: March 16, 2017, 11:29:45 AM »
Stop doing this. It adds nothing constructive whatsoever to the conversation. The rest of your post, absent that line, did.

It's fun for me.  I don't like the seriousness all the time.  Why you want to shit on my parade?  You'd rather I post a meme or a movie quote?  Let me be me.  Let me do me.  No, that sounds nasty. 

First amendment! 
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Kaos

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Re: Health Care
« Reply #249 on: March 16, 2017, 11:30:28 AM »
I'm pretty sure in Russia you can do that. This isn't Russia, Is this Russia?

Prowler said it was.
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Snaggletiger

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Re: Health Care
« Reply #250 on: March 16, 2017, 11:38:57 AM »
Stop doing this. It adds nothing constructive whatsoever to the conversation. The rest of your post, absent that line, did.

Whore shit!
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Godfather

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Re: Health Care
« Reply #251 on: March 16, 2017, 12:44:11 PM »
I submit that you cannot price as you see fit: collusion, price fixing and price gouging ( in 30 or so states) is illegal.
I will submit that this happens all the time.  I only have 2 options on Internet Providers. Well 3 if you count that fact that I could choose to do with out.   Only have 3 options on cable companies.  It's amazing that no matter who I choose the price runs about the same for said services. IMO that is because the market dictates not necessarily because of collusion.  If Comcast drops their price on internet service the rest of the companies will follow with their own rewards otherwise they will lose out in the business.   

Price Gouging is usually done in times of extreme need (ie Hurricanes, Natural Disasters) and should be illegal, are you saying it shouldn't be?  However could you not say that a Gun purchased in 1850 for a nickel and sold on ebay for $12,000 is not also price gouging? I would call that strictly supply and demand.  I don't get your argument.

I will also submit that what I do on the side is 100% "free market"  I choose to price my websites whatever I want to.  I can also choose not to take a job or not.

I honestly don't get what you are arguing Wes because on one side you want more Government involvement for Healthcare but then you say there is no "free market" due to Government Regulation?!?
« Last Edit: March 16, 2017, 02:01:48 PM by Godfather »
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AUChizad

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Re: Health Care
« Reply #252 on: March 16, 2017, 01:03:07 PM »
I honestly don't get what you are arguing Wes because on one side you want more Government involvement for Healthcare but then you say there is no "free market" due to Government Regulation?!?
I don't think he's lamenting that there's no free market. It sounds to me like he's saying the concept itself is preposterous.
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Saniflush

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Re: Health Care
« Reply #253 on: March 16, 2017, 01:08:39 PM »
I don't think he's lamenting that there's no free market. It sounds to me like he's saying the concept itself is preposterous.

I think you are right however I don't understand what the goal is of that argument.

Also, what is the deal with your profile picture.  Is Asia making a comeback and that's the new tour poster?
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"Hey my friends are the ones that wanted to eat at that shitty hole in the wall that only served bread and wine.  What kind of brick and mud business model is that.  Stick to the cart if that's all you're going to serve.  Then that dude came in with like 12 other people, and some of them weren't even wearing shoes, and the restaurant sat them right across from us. It was gross, and they were all stinky and dirty.  Then dude starts talking about eating his body and drinking his blood...I almost lost it.  That's the last supper I'll ever have there, and I hope he dies a horrible death."

GH2001

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Re: Health Care
« Reply #254 on: March 16, 2017, 01:21:38 PM »
I think your argument that we don't live in pure anarchism, therefore there's no such thing as the basic foundational economic principle that supply and demand play a pivotal role in what consumers are willing to pay for relative to competition, is a straw man.

Was trying to find these words. You found them first. Well put.

Free market and capitalism is not anarchy. And it's not what anyone on here is advocating.
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WDE

GH2001

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Re: Health Care
« Reply #255 on: March 16, 2017, 01:22:35 PM »
I think you are right however I don't understand what the goal is of that argument.

Also, what is the deal with your profile picture.  Is Asia making a comeback and that's the new tour poster?

Real story - I THINK I read where their lead singer guy died last week.
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AUChizad

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Re: Health Care
« Reply #256 on: March 16, 2017, 01:22:58 PM »
I think you are right however I don't understand what the goal is of that argument.
Me neither. That's what I've been trying to understand since he brought it up.

Quote
Also, what is the deal with your profile picture.  Is Asia making a comeback and that's the new tour poster?


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Saniflush

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Re: Health Care
« Reply #257 on: March 16, 2017, 01:27:49 PM »
Me neither. That's what I've been trying to understand since he brought it up.




Doesn't look like a member of Asia.
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"Hey my friends are the ones that wanted to eat at that shitty hole in the wall that only served bread and wine.  What kind of brick and mud business model is that.  Stick to the cart if that's all you're going to serve.  Then that dude came in with like 12 other people, and some of them weren't even wearing shoes, and the restaurant sat them right across from us. It was gross, and they were all stinky and dirty.  Then dude starts talking about eating his body and drinking his blood...I almost lost it.  That's the last supper I'll ever have there, and I hope he dies a horrible death."

AUChizad

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Re: Health Care
« Reply #258 on: March 16, 2017, 01:31:50 PM »
Doesn't look like a member of Asia.
It was the heat of the moment.
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Kaos

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Re: Health Care
« Reply #259 on: March 16, 2017, 01:31:59 PM »
I think you are right however I don't understand what the goal is of that argument.

Also, what is the deal with your profile picture.  Is Asia making a comeback and that's the new tour poster?

He said his goal was free healthcare for everybody. 

But while he was looking up words like "specious" he skipped over the meaning of easier ones like "free."

He says there's no free market.  Wrong. But whatever.

There is no such thing as free healthcare either.  Somebody pays. Be altruistic with somebody else's wallet.
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