Bentley, the Flag and pussification

[dallaswareagle]

There are a lot of young white kids out there who are starting to see things this way. They did nothing to anyone, yet they are lumped into a category of oppression. As it gets even worse, these young whites will begin to lash out as the young blacks have for years. There is just one problem for society in this, there are a lot more of them than there are young blacks. Then where does this leave us as a country? First they will try to come for our guns. Then there will be a lot of law abiding citizens turning into fighting criminals. And then the real war starts...
Is this the intention of the federal government, to create a situation where they can use military force on us "for our own good"? We will have another civil war, or we will just lie down and whimper. I do not look forward to either option.

My fear (or hope?) is there is going to be another Baltimore, and the rioters this time will go into an area that is willing to defend their area, and there will be a lot of folks killed.

[Catphish Tilly]

Yes, slavery was a part of the equation.   But only insofar as it was the catalyst issue that defined how the North was treating the South.  It was one of the rights -- the right to make our own determinations on issues -- that led to the the schism.

Completely agree. I'm only pointing out that, as was said before, history is written by the victors. The history taught leans heavily toward the foremost of those rights you speak of, being slavery. The words of the very men who demanded those rights don't help the narrative. Though I agree with you, those words are more a reflection of the time and the greater crisis at hand.

No one cares about the details though. Cops are evil, the South is scum, and the Pope is a climatologist these days. To paraphrase Socrates, the ones who gnash teeth and shout "facts" the most are often the least informed.

[Catphish Tilly]

Also, this ain't stopping at just some old flag.  Sure the flames will die down once the next trendy news crisis takes its place but expect the vines of this debate to spread into other areas.

I read today that the Jefferson Memorial should come down. You can't go back and whiteneutralwash history but by God some people will try all they can.

[WiregrassTiger]

Yes, slavery was a part of the equation.   But only insofar as it was the catalyst issue that defined how the North was treating the South.  It was one of the rights -- the right to make our own determinations on issues -- that led to the the schism.

I'd like to slap some people in the jaw with my schism.

[GH2001]

I am moving to Texas, fuck this place. Oh, and just bought the last of the confederate flags and tags at the local wallmarks.

Ummm....Rick Perry is for the flag being removed. Not sure on Abbott, but I doubt you will see a state capitol that is for it remaining in place, now that momentum is on that side of the argument.

[Tiger Wench]

I am moving to Texas, fuck this place. Oh, and just bought the last of the confederate flags and tags at the local wallmarks.

Sorry, BF - Texas is closed.  The moose out front should have toldja. 

[dallaswareagle]

Sorry, BF - Texas is closed.  The moose out front should have toldja.

werd.


Texas was admitted as a state to the United States of America on July 4, 1845. The conditions were clear – Texas was a Republic, and at its choosing could divide itself into “convenient” states of four, with equal representation as other states in the Union. During the Civil War, Texas joined the Confederate States of America, by a majority vote of its citizens. Texas succeeded from the Union in February 1861, by the voters. At no time since that secession have the voters of Texas accepted or voted to re-join the Union. The only ongoing requirement of Texas government is that no constitutional revision should deny the vote or school rights to any citizen of the United States. After the Civil War, all southern states were issued a proclamation of peace, in essence re-admitting them back to the Union. Since its secession, NO proclamation of peace (which was executed by the other Southern States) exists between Texas and the United States, thus the declaration of secession remains.

[DnATL]

Ok.  So the weird thing about all this. 

My 15 year old daughter had a friend spending the night.  She is essentially apolitical.  Would probably trend liberal if anything. Very concerned about equality, despises anything she considers to be racist or racially biased.

She and her friend come downstairs last night seething.  Did I hear what governor Bentley did? What right does he have to do that? She's looking at rebel flag bathing suits. She and her online friends are trading "solid south" memes (whatever that is) and putting confederate flags on their instaface and bookergram pages.

So while Roof's action may have had the opposite effect he intended, so too it appears does the reaction to it. 

I asked her if she understood why it was taken down and what people think it represents.  And her friend replies:

"It's just a piece of cloth.  It didn't kill anybody. It's part of being from the South and we are just as proud to be southern as we are to be American.  Nobody should take that away."

Colonel Reb Uncle Sani is waiting..........

[Tiger Wench]

werd.

I meant closed to BF.  We have enough freaks in Austin - don't need him too.

[djsimp]

I meant closed to BF.  We have enough freaks in Austin - don't need him too.

What kind of freaks are you referring to?

[bgreene]

http://www.al.com/opinion/index.ssf/2015/06/black_veteran_a_son_of_the_sou.html#incart_most-commented_news_article




By Courtney Daniels, a Birmingham native, former U.S. Marine and veteran of Operation Enduring Freedom
[/size]In 2001, the Taliban shamelessly dynamited the Bamiyan Buddhas, two of the largest such carvings of the ancient world. Built in the 6th century by monks who made their homes along the Silk Road, the Buddahs stood for millenia until fundamentalists removed them from the face of the Earth. Such ignorance still abounds. Over the past few months, the onslaught of the Islamic State has wrought the systematic destruction of cultural artifacts from Palmyra to Nineva, all because they were deemed "offensive" by a minority that if it had its way, would ensure the entire world would adhere to a dark and revisionist existence.[/color]
[/size]A couple of days ago, in the wake of a childish debate over a memorial flag flown near a Confederate statue, a Southern monument was ignorantly desecrated with an attempt at the "Black Lives Matter" slogan. The spray-painted phrase was misspelled. The inanimate statue, a solemn reminder of the South's fallen sons, didn't take away any citizen's pursuit of happiness, it didn't interfere with the social and racial disparities that some claim as a detriment to advancement -- it simply stood there, silent and bold, marking the bravery and errors of yesterday's determinations. [/color]
[/size]From the gun debate to the flag debate (which are both somehow tied to this most recent, senseless shooting tragedy) it seems that liberal thought continues to show its fear of inanimate objects. Such a way of thinking never holds PEOPLE accountable.  Instead it points fingers in every other direction. [/color]
[/size]The removal of a historical banner won't stop racists from exercising bigotry. As a matter of fact, racists will be racists despite regulations and constant "feel good" legislation, no flag needed. The ignorance of the disgruntled protestors is evident in their refusal to acknowledge that the flag widely recognized as the "Confederate Flag" was never actually adopted as the flag of the Confederacy. They'll also never admit or realize that not only was slavery not the motivating factor for the ensuing civil war, but that slavery was an American institution, not a Confederate one. [/color]
[/size]The Confederacy, in its prime, never mounted the atrocities of the Trail of Tears or the Black Hills conspiracy. But it seems that all because a few cowards in bedsheets once hijacked the gorgeous colors of a banner so rich in history to terrorize and intimidate other Americans, we condemn the Southern cloth to oblivion as a misnamed symbol of hate. It doesn't matter that slaves outside of the declared boundaries remained enslaved in the North. Neither does it matter that many Southerners gave up plots of their property to house and provide compensable labor for black workers. It doesn't matter that Lincoln, who is often regarded as the liberator of enslaved blacks cared less for the welfare of slaves than for the sovereignty of an entire country. [/color]
[/size]Courtney Daniels (contributed photo) [/color]Where I come from, deep in the Heart of Dixie, I see that flag every single day with its bold red field and star-studded cross of St. Andrews in royal blue. I hold a certain respect for it that others fueled by emotion and misinformation wouldn't understand. I revere it as a son of the South in a way that would confuse those on the outside looking in, who by the way are not entitled to commentary on which flag waves in our humid Southern breeze. I spot it on not so subtle scavenger hunts gracing a random shirt at the gas station, the hat of the guy behind the counter at my local bait and tackle shop, and the bed of a passing pickup with the accompanying decal "Southern Pride." I smile because I know that if in need, that guy would give me that same shirt off his back. I smile because I live in a region that has a certain defiance that only a select few inherit.[/font][/color][/size]As a black man who grew up in the South, I'll admit I didn't always see the issue with this same clarity. I blindly followed the sentimentalism of my parents and educators who passed judgement from a seat of victimization, failing to challenge evidence to the contrary. My opinion on the Battle Flag was swayed as a 13-year-old reading a contributor's opinion in the Birmingham News, circa 2001. A white man with Confederate heritage, he acknowledged that he had never considered the flag flying on his front lawn to have held such a negative connotation in the minds of so many blacks. I remember from reading the column, he had a certain politeness that urged him to take his flag down and hang it indoors out of respect for those who didn't like it. I respected his consideration and it prompted me to do my own homework on what role the Civil War and the flag in question played in my ancestor's past and my own future. I realized then that I had foolishly labeled every white person sporting the flag as a racist, with no facts to back my claim and without placing myself in their shoes or knowing them personally. [/color][/size]In short, I've come to terms with it being a wrongfully vilified piece of Southern culture, as important to our collective heritage as RC Cola and Moon Pies. [/color][/size]In so many ways, the South is the conscience of the entire nation. In the 21st century with Americans abandoning all decency and forgetting to walk tall, the South still manages to maintain a certain air of moral obligation that has been all but lost in northern enclaves like Philadelphia where Americans scowl at one another, heavily divided by racial suspicion and bigotry, or cities like New York where neighborhoods a century after the Great Migration of blacks are still heavily defined by skin tone and distrust. In the South, we mingle. We play. We do like Willie Mays and "say hey" no matter the color of the person sitting on the porch. I walk into my local grocery with my daughter and like the tick of the clock, I know I can count on an endearing "Hey baby doll, you need some help?" from the attendant whose skin heavily contrasts mine. Her "y'all come on back now" is the most welcoming invitation I could ever hear. [/color][/size]It's clear that as a nation, we are embarking on a new, revised, politically correct avenue of apology. The future is a dim one, void of backbone and fistfights. No more, "each according to the dictates of his own conscience."[/color][/size]"If it offends my neighbor, make it illegal, dynamite it, wipe it from the face of the Earth" rages the contentious fascist. It's becoming clear that what those progressives want is a new, bleak, unrecognizable South, its accomplishments and errors equally stricken from the annals of history. They wish its monuments to be no more, the names of its generals removed from every institution, it's antebellum flair retold as a horror story as if Sherman's destruction wasn't enough of a disgrace.[/color][/size] I am from the great state of Alabama and live between the rivers of Tennessee. I am a proud American and maybe in ways, an even louder Southerner. Can't help it. I relate because I'm a rebel in so many ways and I'm very proud of where I'm from. I can read an accent from either Carolina and know that I'm in good company. I can present my pistol permit to a Texas Ranger and trust that it will be honored four hundred miles in the other direction. I know that I can stop for small talk in any Waffle House in Georgia, and strike up a meaningful conversation with the Walmart shopper behind me in line in Mississippi. I don't need to know those people, they already know me. I am related to them and they are related to me. [/color][/size]If you don't know us but have an opinion about how we should live our lives or if you can't dissect the FACTS of a situation without making it a divisive issue, as Southerners, we only have one thing to say to your folly: "Bless your heart."[/color]

[wesfau2]

Also, this ain't stopping at just some old flag.  Sure the flames will die down once the next trendy news crisis takes its place but expect the vines of this debate to spread into other areas.

I read today that the Jefferson Memorial should come down. You can't go back and whiteneutralwash history but by God some people will try all they can.

I'll worry about that last bit as soon as hate groups start committing violence while draping themselves in Jeffersonian attire.

Once your symbol/flag is co-opted for the awful purposes that the confederate flag has been, then it's appropriate for the government to refuse to implicitly support the symbol further.

Private entities (Amazon/eBay/tv networks) are making business decisions that are wholly within their purview. 

You are not losing anything, petulant southern people.

[WiregrassTiger]

I'll worry about that last bit as soon as hate groups start committing violence while draping themselves in Jeffersonian attire.

Once your symbol/flag is co-opted for the awful purposes that the confederate flag has been, then it's appropriate for the government to refuse to implicitly support the symbol further.

Private entities (Amazon/eBay/tv networks) are making business decisions that are wholly within their purview. 

You are not losing anything, petulant southern people.

I would buy Confederate flag condoms, if Magnum made such.

[Catphish Tilly]

Once your symbol/flag is co-opted for the awful purposes that the confederate flag has been, then it's appropriate for the government to refuse to implicitly support the symbol further.

Private entities (Amazon/eBay/tv networks) are making business decisions that are wholly within their purview.

If you read my other statement, you'll see that I agree it's hard to argue slavery wasn't a major factor in the governmental leaders' secession statements. Flags likely shouldn't be flying from the roof tops but I don't see a problem with honoring war dead in existing memorials, when most soldiers were fighting for much more than the right to maintain a way of life (slavery) they'd never even known.

So Gov't buildings aren't really my concern. It's the private sector and the ability of public opinion to be so hijacked by the internet newscycle today that gets under my skin.

I wouldn't have a problem with a decision any entity makes within its own area of influence, if it were due to having a backbone and a long held position. I have a problem with why they make knee jerk decisions like this. Why only now? Because it's playing to the lowest common denominator rather than acting like a mature leader.

This latest response isn't based on any deep-seated sense of moral necessity or justice for the downtrodden held by a Board of Directors. It's done to ride out the wave of popularity amongst those screaming loudest in order to continue making money. Business have to do what they must in order to survive but its it's utter hypocrisy.

For crying out loud, Apple has slave labor building their tech overseas in present day.

You're right, they are free to do whatever they like... but the social cost is a continued influence on the narrow-minded and more fuel to justify their gnashing of teeth. And the more effective that gnashing is, the worse it'll become.

[Catphish Tilly]

I would buy Confederate flag condoms, if Magnum made such.

The only way the South could rise again. And again.

[djsimp]

https://video-atl1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hvideo-xfp1/v/t42.1790-2/11135918_803990669716446_1601943897_n.mp4?efg=eyJybHIiOjUwOSwicmxhIjo1MTJ9&rl=509&vabr=283&oh=0e4fe86b50cd2098c30c572e0f99dd93&oe=559AB807

[wesfau2]

If you read my other statement, you'll see that I agree it's hard to argue slavery wasn't a major factor in the governmental leaders' secession statements. Flags likely shouldn't be flying from the roof tops but I don't see a problem with honoring war dead in existing memorials, when most soldiers were fighting for much more than the right to maintain a way of life (slavery) they'd never even known.

So Gov't buildings aren't really my concern. It's the private sector and the ability of public opinion to be so hijacked by the internet newscycle today that gets under my skin.

I wouldn't have a problem with a decision any entity makes within its own area of influence, if it were due to having a backbone and a long held position. I have a problem with why they make knee jerk decisions like this. Why only now? Because it's playing to the lowest common denominator rather than acting like a mature leader.

This latest response isn't based on any deep-seated sense of moral necessity or justice for the downtrodden held by a Board of Directors. It's done to ride out the wave of popularity amongst those screaming loudest in order to continue making money. Business have to do what they must in order to survive but its it's utter hypocrisy.

For crying out loud, Apple has slave labor building their tech overseas in present day.

You're right, they are free to do whatever they like... but the social cost is and continued influence on the narrow-minded and more fuel to justify their gnashing of teeth. And the more effective that gnashing is, the worse it'll become.

Business sets policy on impact to its bottom line.  Associating itself with a product/symbol that it feels would negatively impact profits is counterproductive...and would likely violate its obligations to shareholders.

Your beef is with the racists that besmirched the image you wish the flag had.

[jmar]

People are too self-absorbed to make a stand about much of anything.

[Catphish Tilly]

Business sets policy on impact to its bottom line.  Associating itself with a product/symbol that it feels would negatively impact profits is counterproductive...and would likely violate its obligations to shareholders.

Correct. Which I mentioned is hypocritical at best. Apple removes a few flags while continuing to use slave labor camps in its supply chain model. No problems solved. No greater good. Just company PR and a willfully-blind and loyal following.

Your beef is with the racists that besmirched the image you wish the flag had.

My thoughts extend far beyond a dispute over silly flag. There's a societal shift in the way we perceive news and are told what stories are most important to us by social media that troubles me. That and thoughts of bismerching my beef.

[GH2001]

Correct. Which I mentioned is hypocritical at best. Apple removes a few flags while continuing to use slave labor camps in its supply chain model. No problems solved. No greater good. Just company PR and a willfully-blind and loyal following.

My thoughts extend far beyond a dispute over silly flag. There's a societal shift in the way we perceive news and are told what stories are most important to us by social media that troubles me. That and thoughts of bismerching my beef.

But PR is huge now. I dont agree with it but understand it. And its not just Apple. Pretty much every major corporation is doing it thanks to the likes of the media and people like Al Sharpton who make a mountain out of a molehill. Call it a preemptive strike but it is what it is.