Man Arrested for Gunning Down Cop in No Knock Raid

[WiregrassTiger]

I was told to not check this but I had to. For the uneducated:
1: a no knock warrant does not authorize police to "sneak" into anyone's house. You are  required to "announce loudly and repetitively upon entry". A no-knock warrant simply means that you don't have to stand around like an asshole  after knocking on the door while you wait for the suspects to destroy the evidence you are seeking and/or shoot you.
2: going through the window, as alluded to by someone else, is a secondary entry almost always for several really good reasons. That means that someone banged on his door with a ram for 10 or 20 good licks, long enough to wear a breacher out.
3: In Alabama no-knock warrants must be served during the day unless otherwise specified
4: there is no excuse for not properly identifying your target, so saying "someone was coming in my window and I shot him before I was able to determine he was a heavily marked swat member" is the same thing as saying "I'm a murderer". If smooth_operator,  firearms instructor/swat member extraordinaire shot someone before identifying his target you sonsofbitches would stone me to death.
If anyone, ever, thinks to himself "that asshole deserved it" when informed of the murder of a law enforcement officer fudge you, I hope you die too. And I hope I investigate it.

Points 1-3 have educated me on no knock warrants and it makes much more sense. I agree on those 3. However, I totally disagree on 4. Not saying that someone shouldn't try to identify said target. Just saying that if I shoot someone coming through my window, it doesn't make me a murder. I will be trying to protect my family and am likely in fear. It wouldn't be to try and murder someone.

[smooth_operator]

It's a risky business. But sometimes, if I sneak quietly enough, I can get the donut money before anyone knows what's going on.

We call that "serving no-knock warrants"

[smooth_operator]

Points 1-3 have educated me on no knock warrants and it makes much more sense. I agree on those 3. However, I totally disagree on 4. Not saying that someone shouldn't try to identify said target. Just saying that if I shoot someone coming through my window, it doesn't make me a murder. I will be trying to protect my family and am likely in fear. It wouldn't be to try and murder someone.

And a fine and reasonable stance for an educated, gainfully employed person to think if he's unexpectedly accosted in the middle of the night. I agree, and I wish every burglar got shot to death.
However, that's not an apples to apples comparison.
In light of just this situation, a situation where it is reasonable to believe that the person involved was a criminal, and it is reasonable to believe that it was daylight (5:30 AM is daylight in June) and it is unreasonable to believe that the person inside was unaware of the 30 guys in 6 trucks and 2 vans who are covered head to toe in gear that says police on it everywhere who, before choosing to try the window fumbled and cursed and repeatedly rammed the front door , HAD to have been aware that the persons attempting to gain entry were law enforcement. I cannot and do not believe that this fellow did not chose to shoot a policeman. 
If it is just the opinion of the public that cops shouldn't try to arrest people who are hard to arrest I agree it's easier when they come to the office.

[WiregrassTiger]

I was alluding to someone "sneaking" in my window. Not a scenario like you described. I should have clarified.

If law enforcement doesn't "sneak" in like the article suggested and did announce themselves, I really don't understand why the guy is even alive to be prosecuted.

[smooth_operator]

I was alluding to someone "sneaking" in my window. Not a scenario like you described. I should have clarified.

If law enforcement doesn't "sneak" in like the article suggested and did announce themselves, I really don't understand why the guy is even alive to be prosecuted.

I knew I liked you. Looks to me like the miscreant decided he didn't want to play anymore, took his ball and headed home. The rest of the team evidently are big law followers or didn't feel they could get away with plugging the guy.

If you're interested, all drug search warrants are served using "dynamic" tactics. This means loud and fast, using "speed, surprise and violence of action" to keep from getting your dick shot off. The idea is to be upon the villains before they know what's happening.
The only time SWAT guys try to "sneak" (which is hard in gear, by the way) its called "slow and deliberate". Those tactics are used when there's a violent armed offender in an area and the idea is to sneak up and bust..err.. arrest his ass before he shoots you. If they had been using "slow and deliberate" the handsome hero would've waited outside the window and would've attempted to communicate to the scoundrel how many holes he's going to have in his chest area if he doesn't come to Jesus' ways.

[Townhallsavoy]

I was alluding to someone "sneaking" in my window. Not a scenario like you described. I should have clarified.

If law enforcement doesn't "sneak" in like the article suggested and did announce themselves, I really don't understand why the guy is even alive to be prosecuted.

The problem is the article and the reaction from places like Reddit.  It says "sneaking" inside the window quietly at 530am while this wrongfully accused upstanding young man was getting ready for his whiteAfrican American collar business job.  That's why I reacted to it. 

Obviously if the police kick in your door and say hands up, you throw your hands up.  Someone sneaking or busting into my window unannounced?  With my criminal history?  I'm going Django. 

[WiregrassTiger]

The problem is the article and the reaction from places like Reddit.  It says "sneaking" inside the window quietly at 530am while this wrongfully accused upstanding young man was getting ready for his whiteAfrican American collar business job.  That's why I reacted to it. 

Obviously if the police kick in your door and say hands up, you throw your hands up.  Someone sneaking or busting into my window unannounced?  With my criminal history? I'm going Django.

I thought that you were successful in getting that sodomy charge reduced to tailgating.

[The Prowler]

Exactly what TH said. Come through the front door and say, "police hands up" or something to that effect, I'm throwing up my hands and pointing towards the money jar so they can have donut money. Climb in through the back window, in the early morning hours? I'm shooting someone in the face.

[CCTAU]

I thought no drugs were found?

No-knock warrants should only be issued for known violent criminals.

The war on drugs has been a failure and has cost too many officers their lives.

And if you are climbing in my window at night, you are my target.

Shit. This is America. Too many cops been sent to break down too many doors here lately.

[Token]

I thought no drugs were found?

No-knock warrants should only be issued for known violent criminals.

The war on drugs has been a failure and has cost too many officers their lives.

And if you are climbing in my window at night, you are my target.

Shit. This is America. Too many cops been sent to break down too many doors here lately.

When a shit bag meth addict breaks into your residence and takes your personal belongings that you've worked for, while you are at work, don't bother your local law enforcement with a report. Just take your losses and continue to talk about how the war on drugs is a waste of money.

But you wouldn't.  You're the type that would call the investigator everyday and bitch about why he hasn't found your stolen shit. Then you'd probably start a neighborhood watch, do some investigation yourself, and probably get a pretty good idea about who stole your shit and where they were keeping it. Then you'd call the investigator, his chief, and maybe even fox 6 on your side to bitch about how you know where your shit is, but they wont get a warrant to go in and get the stolen property.

I talk to you every fucking day of my life.  Unreasonable people are ruining this great country.  I feel sad for the world my grandchildren will be forced to grow up in.

[Saniflush]

When a shit bag meth addict breaks into your residence and takes your personal belongings that you've worked for, while you are at work, don't bother your local law enforcement with a report. Just take your losses and continue to talk about how the war on drugs is a waste of money.

But you wouldn't.  You're the type that would call the investigator everyday and bitch about why he hasn't found your stolen shit. Then you'd probably start a neighborhood watch, do some investigation yourself, and probably get a pretty good idea about who stole your shit and where they were keeping it. Then you'd call the investigator, his chief, and maybe even fox 6 on your side to bitch about how you know where your shit is, but they wont get a warrant to go in and get the stolen property.

I talk to you every fucking day of my life.  Unreasonable people are ruining this great country.  I feel sad for the world my grandchildren will be forced to grow up in.

Damn you have grandchildren?  I knew you turds laid into your sisters/cousins early but Jesus get some grass on the playing field.

[CCTAU]

When a shit bag meth addict breaks into your residence and takes your personal belongings that you've worked for, while you are at work, don't bother your local law enforcement with a report. Just take your losses and continue to talk about how the war on drugs is a waste of money.

But you wouldn't.  You're the type that would call the investigator everyday and bitch about why he hasn't found your stolen shit. Then you'd probably start a neighborhood watch, do some investigation yourself, and probably get a pretty good idea about who stole your shit and where they were keeping it. Then you'd call the investigator, his chief, and maybe even fox 6 on your side to bitch about how you know where your shit is, but they wont get a warrant to go in and get the stolen property.

I talk to you every fucking day of my life.  Unreasonable people are ruining this great country.  I feel sad for the world my grandchildren will be forced to grow up in.

Yeah dumbass, I would want SWAT to go get that sumbitch in the middle of the night.

You totally twisted that to suit your butthurt life!

[Godfather]

 

[Godfather]

You guys should be ashamed of yourselves, some of my best friends are meth dealers.

[smooth_operator]

I thought no drugs were found?

No-knock warrants should only be issued for known violent criminals.

The war on drugs has been a failure and has cost too many officers their lives.

And if you are climbing in my window at night, you are my target.

shoot. This is America. Too many cops been sent to break down too many doors here lately.

Wait.. are you just talking about random stuff right now or are we still talking about the incident?
Cause the cop didn't make the law, or the policy, or sign the warrant. All of those things were done by elected officials, so maybe you just vote for elected officials who want to legalize cocaine or whatever and stop cheering for cops to get shot. You guys keep talking about "sneaking" in through the window at "night". That is not what happened here. The article that was posted worded things in the most inflammatory way possible to generate controversy and hits. Read the comments at the bottom of the article to see why I'm upset.

What would you have law enforcement to do? Using what methods are they to arrest persons who break laws? Why is no drugs being found relevant?

[CCTAU]

Wait.. are you just talking about random stuff right now or are we still talking about the incident?
Cause the cop didn't make the law, or the policy, or sign the warrant. All of those things were done by elected officials, so maybe you just vote for elected officials who want to legalize cocaine or whatever and stop cheering for cops to get shot. You guys keep talking about "sneaking" in through the window at "night". That is not what happened here. The article that was posted worded things in the most inflammatory way possible to generate controversy and hits. Read the comments at the bottom of the article to see why I'm upset.

What would you have law enforcement to do? Using what methods are they to arrest persons who break laws? Why is no drugs being found relevant?

You are correct. The politicians send good men to do a job that in many cases should not be done in the way mentioned.

Why a no-knock warrant on a guy who is not deemed a violent offender? While (alleged) selling meth is a despicable crime, did it really warrant a no-knock? And in the middle of the night? Using SWAT?

The fact that an officer lost his life because a judge, or politically motivate police chief decided this was necessary, well that is the real issue here.

But as a law abiding citizen who reads about little old ladies being accidentally shot in no-knock raids, it grinds my soul that the laws that are supposed to be there to protect us are the ones that politicians are using a bit liberally.

While it may make law enforcement's job a bit harder, no-knocks should be hard as hell to obtain. And they should only be used against known violent offenders.

That is why many people are upset. (not the idiots who hate police. They are just stupid)
I'm talking about folks like the guy who was purported to be a gun nut prepper that they raided his home and found food stores and five guns in a safe. Who approved that warrant and why?

So when an SWAT officer gets killed in something as meaningless as this, it brings up many questions as to when it is my right to defend my home.

The police are pawns in a game that needs to have restraint applied when issuing no-knocks.

As to what the resident knew at the time of entry, I have no idea. I just know an officer is dead because a no-knock warrant was issued and served in the middle of the night on an alleged meth dealer.

If more information comes out later that the guy was a raging murderous maniac, then I might understand. But at this point in time, it looks a bit odd.

[GH2001]

However, that's not an apples to apples comparison.

WT is pretty good at doing that lately.

[GH2001]

Exactly what TH said. Come through the front door and say, "police hands up" or something to that effect, I'm throwing up my hands and pointing towards the money jar so they can have donut money. Climb in through the back window, in the early morning hours? I'm shooting someone in the face.

And THIS

[WiregrassTiger]

WT is pretty good at doing that lately.

Yep. WT's comparisons require rational thought by reasonable persons. Wouldn't make sense to you.

[WiregrassTiger]

This is all I gots to say on it. Peace, out. Try and get my donuts, coppers.