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John Kerry on climate change...

Snaggletiger

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Re: John Kerry on climate change...
« Reply #40 on: February 19, 2014, 04:31:37 PM »
Oh, and by the way, I couldn't agree more with the esteemed 2000.
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Re: John Kerry on climate change...
« Reply #41 on: February 19, 2014, 04:45:49 PM »
So you mean to tell me it had to adapt? Change over time in order to "get it right"?

Nobody that I know of disagrees with the notion of micro-evolution, or adaptation, or whatever you want to call it.  However, macro-evolution is a completely different argument. 

Do you ever wonder what the odds are that every single thing that had to fall into place in order for Earth to sustain life did?  I've seen studies that show that 322 separate parameters had to fall exactly in to place at the same time in order for life to be possible.  The odds of this happening are less than 1 chance in 10^282(million trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion) that even one such life-support body would occur anywhere in the universe. 

In other words, we won the cosmic lottery!  When I think about that, and couple it with notions like this:

So you're saying that something without intelligence or even life at the beginning spontaneously developed a structure composed of chains of thousands of very specific chemical compounds?  Completely by chance, from nothing, took chemicals and just randomly started stringing them together in a way that it would control the very blueprint of life and end up with a successful plan?  Something that with our technology today we could not replicate in a lab under controlled conditions but occurred in a tidal pool or gas vent on the ocean floor?  And after we got one chain we would combine it with another chain in a helix formations so that we could split it down the middle so the single celled creature could replicate itself?  All by chance?  Time + Nothing + Random Chance = All this?

We can just agree to disagree, but to me that sounds as nutty as anything ever come up with by anybody.  And quite frankly has not been proven out.

...and it simply doesn't seem crazy to me that creation requires a Creator.  It seems more insane to me to think that everything came from nothing.  That one day there was absolutely nothing and due to some spontaneous combustion event that no one can explain the entire universe was formed with no rhyme or reason.  Then fast forward trillions of years and here we have mammals who have evolved enough to debate said event over the internet while being hundreds of miles apart. 

If believing in that blows your skirt up have at it, but I don't see how you can see one belief is so outlandish and crazy and the other is "science." 
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Kaos

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Re: John Kerry on climate change...
« Reply #42 on: February 19, 2014, 05:34:12 PM »
That's what the world's leading geneticists think. 

Also, year one students at universities and most high school kids who decide to trust their teachers over Pastor Jimmy Bub.

All due respect? You're an idiot.

And  gonna go ahead and invoke hitler  just to end this stupidity.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2014, 05:36:50 PM by Kaos »
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Snaggletiger

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Re: John Kerry on climate change...
« Reply #43 on: February 19, 2014, 05:39:50 PM »
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
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Re: John Kerry on climate change...
« Reply #44 on: February 19, 2014, 06:58:49 PM »
All due respect? You're an idiot.

And  gonna go ahead and invoke hitler  just to end this stupidity.

You have no rebuttal so you jumped to name calling.

Want me to list some scientists and geneticists that agree with me?  Or is that too much for you to handle?
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The Guy That Knows Nothing of Hyperbole

GH2001

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Re: John Kerry on climate change...
« Reply #45 on: February 19, 2014, 08:13:44 PM »
He got trounced by Karl Rove and the Republicans' wholesale capitulation to the religious right.

If you say so.

John Kerry was just that bad.
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WDE

GH2001

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Re: John Kerry on climate change...
« Reply #46 on: February 19, 2014, 08:24:54 PM »
You have no rebuttal so you jumped to name calling.

Want me to list some scientists and geneticists that agree with me?  Or is that too much for you to handle?

Yeah...because you haven't been a condescending know it all jerk anywhere in this thread. You guys preemptively take any chance you get to take jab at anyone with a belief in religion. Several instances of that in this thread alone. But Kaos gets a little defensive about it in response? Bring on the tears.

Kaos - apologize now. THS's feelings are hurt.
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WDE

Kaos

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Re: John Kerry on climate change...
« Reply #47 on: February 19, 2014, 08:35:21 PM »
You have no rebuttal so you jumped to name calling.

Want me to list some scientists and geneticists that agree with me?  Or is that too much for you to handle?

I already invoked Hitler. 

Anything you say after this is tainted.

You ARE an idiot if you truly believe that anybody with a high school education rejects religion and buys your nonsense "geneticist" crap.  I'd wager to say the VAST majority of Auburn students don't think the way you claim at all.

Here's all I need to know on the subject. I KNOW there is a God. Beyond any shadow of a doubt. And I'm an educated person who comes from an educated family. Some of you think there is not. Anything beyond that is jibberjabble.

« Last Edit: February 19, 2014, 08:37:50 PM by Kaos »
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Re: John Kerry on climate change...
« Reply #48 on: February 19, 2014, 09:45:26 PM »
I already invoked Hitler. 

Anything you say after this is tainted.

You ARE an idiot if you truly believe that anybody with a high school education rejects religion and buys your nonsense "geneticist" crap.  I'd wager to say the VAST majority of Auburn students don't think the way you claim at all.

Here's all I need to know on the subject. I KNOW there is a God. Beyond any shadow of a doubt. And I'm an educated person who comes from an educated family. Some of you think there is not. Anything beyond that is jibberjabble.

Francis Collins stood in front of the cameras with Craig Venter and Bill Clinton to announce that the human genetic code had been cracked.  It was a tremendous breakthrough in understanding what defines us as a species and has led to many medical advancements that were unthinkable prior to the completion of the big goal set by the human genome project. 

Collins is a devout Christian.  He wrote a book called The Language of God, and in it, he expounds on how any kind of creationism and rejection of the current thoughts on evolution are foolhardy and idiotic.  He explains how what they have discovered through genetics seals the deal that evolution started from a single source and through millions of years of adaptations and changes on the macro level led to the diverse world that we know today. 

He also explains why he isn't afraid of science when it comes to his religion. 

I don't know why accepting basic principles in scientific thought is so terrifying to some of you.  You really think high school students are mocking with authority and credibility the work produced by our nation's highest academic scientists?  Seriously?  You think Auburn students are above accepting evolution and climate change?  Really?  Do you realize that my degree is from Auburn University? 

Not one time has anyone in this thread attacked or criticized a belief in God.  That's how you took it most likely because you don't have a firm grasp on why you believe in God.  He's just there and your ticket to heaven or whatever it is psychologically that soothes you.  Being forced to read with an open mind new ideas that explain the universe shakes you to the core to the point that you have to head butt anyone mentioning those ideas. 
« Last Edit: February 19, 2014, 09:49:52 PM by Townhallsavoy »
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The Guy That Knows Nothing of Hyperbole

Re: John Kerry on climate change...
« Reply #49 on: February 19, 2014, 09:49:15 PM »
Yeah...because you haven't been a condescending know it all jerk anywhere in this thread. You guys preemptively take any chance you get to take jab at anyone with a belief in religion. Several instances of that in this thread alone. But Kaos gets a little defensive about it in response? Bring on the tears.

Kaos - apologize now. THS's feelings are hurt.

Hahaha my feelings are hurt?  That's rich considering it's not me running around screaming nanny boo boo with my thumb in my mouth like someone else in this thread.

The ONLY condescending remark made remotely towards religion was Wes bringing up that the GOP pandered to the religious right.  There is a religious left and a religious middle.  And even some of the religious right is accepting of new scientific ideas that make one question their own beliefs. 

I'd be interested in a quote of where I was so condescending.  Practicing brevity when people are saying, "I don't accept what the majority of scientists believe because it seems nutty" isn't condescending.  It's just being straight forward and refusing to engage in emotional rhetoric that's spawned from a severe insecurity in one's own idea of what's right in life. 
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The Guy That Knows Nothing of Hyperbole

wesfau2

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Re: John Kerry on climate change...
« Reply #50 on: February 19, 2014, 10:00:08 PM »
I already invoked Hitler. 

Anything you say after this is tainted.

You ARE an idiot if you truly believe that anybody with a high school education rejects religion and buys your nonsense "geneticist" crap.  I'd wager to say the VAST majority of Auburn students don't think the way you claim at all.

Here's all I need to know on the subject. I KNOW there is a God. Beyond any shadow of a doubt. And I'm an educated person who comes from an educated family. Some of you think there is not. Anything beyond that is jibberjabble.

You don't know.  You believe.  You have faith.
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You can keep a wooden stake in your trunk
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Kaos

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Re: John Kerry on climate change...
« Reply #51 on: February 19, 2014, 11:07:30 PM »
Francis Collins stood in front of the cameras with Craig Venter and Bill Clinton to announce that the human genetic code had been cracked.  It was a tremendous breakthrough in understanding what defines us as a species and has led to many medical advancements that were unthinkable prior to the completion of the big goal set by the human genome project. 

Collins is a devout Christian.  He wrote a book called The Language of God, and in it, he expounds on how any kind of creationism and rejection of the current thoughts on evolution are foolhardy and idiotic.  He explains how what they have discovered through genetics seals the deal that evolution started from a single source and through millions of years of adaptations and changes on the macro level led to the diverse world that we know today. 

He also explains why he isn't afraid of science when it comes to his religion. 

I don't know why accepting basic principles in scientific thought is so terrifying to some of you.  You really think high school students are mocking with authority and credibility the work produced by our nation's highest academic scientists?  Seriously?  You think Auburn students are above accepting evolution and climate change?  Really?  Do you realize that my degree is from Auburn University? 

Not one time has anyone in this thread attacked or criticized a belief in God.  That's how you took it most likely because you don't have a firm grasp on why you believe in God.  He's just there and your ticket to heaven or whatever it is psychologically that soothes you.  Being forced to read with an open mind new ideas that explain the universe shakes you to the core to the point that you have to head butt anyone mentioning those ideas.

I'm sorry you got a degree and not an education

You don't know the first thing you're talking about.
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Kaos

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Re: John Kerry on climate change...
« Reply #52 on: February 19, 2014, 11:10:05 PM »
You don't know.  You believe.  You have faith.

I'm not going to get into the reasons why and all that, but I know. It's not an issue of faith or belief. It's an absolute. I know.

Don't care if you or anyone else believes that. Isn't my problem. Don't actually expect you to.
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WiregrassTiger

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Re: John Kerry on climate change...
« Reply #53 on: February 20, 2014, 09:58:28 AM »
Guys, Please stay on topic and remember to limit the name calling. Fag and motherfucker are allowed but son of a bitch is a last resort.
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Like my posts on www.tigersx.com

Re: John Kerry on climate change...
« Reply #54 on: February 20, 2014, 10:06:10 AM »
Hahaha my feelings are hurt?  That's rich considering it's not me running around screaming nanny boo boo with my thumb in my mouth like someone else in this thread.

The ONLY condescending remark made remotely towards religion was Wes bringing up that the GOP pandered to the religious right.  There is a religious left and a religious middle.  And even some of the religious right is accepting of new scientific ideas that make one question their own beliefs. 

I'd be interested in a quote of where I was so condescending.  Practicing brevity when people are saying, "I don't accept what the majority of scientists believe because it seems nutty" isn't condescending.  It's just being straight forward and refusing to engage in emotional rhetoric that's spawned from a severe insecurity in one's own idea of what's right in life.

Christians believe that God created man from dirt and we're ridiculous.  Others believe that life spontaneously came to be from dirt and they're brilliant.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2014, 10:39:51 AM by AU_Tiger_2000 »
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You meet a man on the Oregon Trail. He tells you his name is Terry. You laugh and tell him: "That's a girl's name!" Terry shoots you. You have died of dissin' Terry.

CCTAU

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Re: John Kerry on climate change...
« Reply #55 on: February 20, 2014, 10:25:01 AM »
It is nutty.  Christians believe that God created man from dirt and we're ridiculous.  Others believe that life spontaneously came to be from dirt and they're brilliant.

There is the allowance that both could be true in a sense.

I do find it hard to believe that we are as complex as we are by accident. Just the reproduction process alone is enough to marvel at.
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Five statements of WISDOM
1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity, by legislating the wealth out of prosperity.
2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.
3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.
5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friends, is the beginning of the end of any nation.

Kaos

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Re: John Kerry on climate change...
« Reply #56 on: February 20, 2014, 12:01:21 PM »
There is the allowance that both could be true in a sense.

I do find it hard to believe that we are as complex as we are by accident. Just the reproduction process alone is enough to marvel at.

Yeah. I marvel at that too.  The videos are especially marvelous.
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AUTailgatingRules

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Re: John Kerry on climate change...
« Reply #57 on: February 20, 2014, 04:55:27 PM »
Again the results of climate science are the best that money can buy.  I guarantee you that if the government were to give grants, in the amounts currently spent to prove man made global warming, to scientists to prove it's all bunch of bullshit, the results would be quite different.

FOLLOW THE MONEY
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AUChizad

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Re: John Kerry on climate change...
« Reply #58 on: February 20, 2014, 05:35:58 PM »
Again the results of climate science are the best that money can buy.  I guarantee you that if the government were to give grants, in the amounts currently spent to prove man made global warming, to scientists to prove it's all bunch of bullshit, the results would be quite different.

FOLLOW THE MONEY
Kaos alluded to this as well. I was going to let it go unchecked because the willful ignorance in this thread is too great to even attempt to combat with logic or reason.

But for fuck's sake.

Yes. Please do. Follow the money.


http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/12/131220154511.htm

Quote
A new study conducted by Drexel University environmental sociologist Robert J. Brulle, PhD, exposes the organizational underpinnings and funding behind the powerful climate change countermovement. This study marks the first peer-reviewed, comprehensive analysis ever conducted of the sources of funding that maintain the denial effort.

Through an analysis of the financial structure of the organizations that constitute the core of the countermovement and their sources of monetary support, Brulle found that, while the largest and most consistent funders behind the countermovement are a number of well-known conservative foundations, the majority of donations are "dark money," or concealed funding.

The data also indicates that Koch Industries and ExxonMobil, two of the largest supporters of climate science denial, have recently pulled back from publicly funding countermovement organizations. Coinciding with the decline in traceable funding, the amount of funding given to countermovement organizations through third party pass-through foundations like Donors Trust and Donors Capital, whose funders cannot be traced, has risen dramatically.

Brulle, a professor of sociology and environmental science in Drexel's College of Arts and Sciences, conducted the study during a year-long fellowship at Stanford University's Center for Advanced Study in the Behavioral Sciences. The study was published today in Climatic Change, one of the top 10 climate science journals in the world.

The climate change countermovement is a well-funded and organized effort to undermine public faith in climate science and block action by the U.S. government to regulate emissions. This countermovement involves a large number of organizations, including conservative think tanks, advocacy groups, trade associations and conservative foundations, with strong links to sympathetic media outlets and conservative politicians.

If you want to understand what's driving this movement, you have to look at what's going on behind the scenes.

"The climate change countermovement has had a real political and ecological impact on the failure of the world to act on the issue of global warming," said Brulle. "Like a play on Broadway, the countermovement has stars in the spotlight -- often prominent contrarian scientists or conservative politicians -- but behind the stars is an organizational structure of directors, script writers and producers, in the form of conservative foundations. If you want to understand what's driving this movement, you have to look at what's going on behind the scenes."

To uncover how the countermovement was built and maintained, Brulle developed a listing of 118 important climate denial organizations in the U.S. He then coded data on philanthropic funding for each organization, combining information from the Foundation Center with financial data submitted by organizations to the Internal Revenue Service.

The final sample for analysis consisted of 140 foundations making 5,299 grants totaling $558 million to 91 organizations from 2003 to 2010.
The data shows that these 91 organizations have an annual income of just over $900 million, with an annual average of $64 million in identifiable foundation support. Since the majority of the organizations are multiple focus organizations, not all of this income was devoted to climate change activities, Brulle notes.

Key findings include:

    Conservative foundations have bank-rolled denial. The largest and most consistent funders of organizations orchestrating climate change denial are a number of well-known conservative foundations, such as the Searle Freedom Trust, the John William Pope Foundation, the Howard Charitable Foundation and the Sarah Scaife Foundation. These foundations promote ultra-free-market ideas in many realms.

    Koch and ExxonMobil have recently pulled back from publicly visible funding. From 2003 to 2007, the Koch Affiliated Foundations and the ExxonMobil Foundation were heavily involved in funding climate-change denial organizations. But since 2008, they are no longer making publicly traceable contributions.

    Funding has shifted to pass through untraceable sources. Coinciding with the decline in traceable funding, the amount of funding given to denial organizations by the Donors Trust has risen dramatically. Donors Trust is a donor-directed foundation whose funders cannot be traced. This one foundation now provides about 25% of all traceable foundation funding used by organizations engaged in promoting systematic denial of climate change.

    Most funding for denial efforts is untraceable. Despite extensive data compilation and analyses, only a fraction of the hundreds of millions in contributions to climate change denying organizations can be specifically accounted for from public records. Approximately 75% of the income of these organizations comes from unidentifiable sources.


"The real issue here is one of democracy. Without a free flow of accurate information, democratic politics and government accountability become impossible," said Brulle. "Money amplifies certain voices above others and, in effect, gives them a megaphone in the public square. Powerful funders are supporting the campaign to deny scientific findings about global warming and raise public doubts about the roots and remedies of this massive global threat. At the very least, American voters deserve to know who is behind these efforts."

At the very least, American voters deserve to know who is behind these efforts [to deny scientific findings about global warming].

This study is part one of a three-part project by Brulle to examine the climate movement in the U.S. at the national level. The next step in the project is to examine the environmental movement or the climate change movement. Brulle will then compare the whole funding flow to the entire range of organizations on both sides of the debate.

Follow it to the oil conglomerates that are funding GOP Super PACs.

You people are deathly afraid of knowledge and education for some bizarre reason. You know all there is to know in this ol' world. NO MORE LEARNIN' FOR YOU. Waste of time.

But for fuck's sake, to say the people who AREN'T denying climate change are driven purely by some bottom-line desire to pull a profit? Are you people even hearing yourselves? We're reaching past delusion into psychosis here.

So let me get this straight. I'm assuming you all take issue with universities getting grant money for scientific research? That's the "money-grab"? I guess you all believe the world would be a better place if we all lived in the dark ages and didn't waste time spinning our wheels trying to cure cancer, lower the costs of food & fuels, or invent the next supercomputer (or as CCTAU calls them Debil Machines).

Secondly, the very fact that research money chaps your ass to such a degree illustrates one of two things:
1) You don't understand the very basic principles of what science even is. To you, funding research is exactly the same as the Koch Brothers and Chevron paying billions of dollars to politicians to brainwash coots like yourselves. To you, you think that science works backwards from an ends to justify a means. To you, these climate scientists are just slavin' away trying desperately to prove climate change is real so they can really stick it to you guys.
OR
2) You're afraid of the truth. You don't want to know because your delicate ego can't handle having been so belligerent about something in which you are so damned wrong.

Both are ignorant as fuck. Hope you don't mind me saying so since Kaos has decided we should be so blunt in this thread.
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AUTailgatingRules

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Re: John Kerry on climate change...
« Reply #59 on: February 20, 2014, 05:51:42 PM »
Kaos alluded to this as well. I was going to let it go unchecked because the willful ignorance in this thread is too great to even attempt to combat with logic or reason.

But for fuck's sake.

Yes. Please do. Follow the money.


http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/12/131220154511.htm

Follow it to the oil conglomerates that are funding GOP Super PACs.

You people are deathly afraid of knowledge and education for some bizarre reason. You know all there is to know in this ol' world. NO MORE LEARNIN' FOR YOU. Waste of time.

But for fuck's sake, to say the people who AREN'T denying climate change are driven purely by some bottom-line desire to pull a profit? Are you people even hearing yourselves? We're reaching past delusion into psychosis here.

So let me get this straight. I'm assuming you all take issue with universities getting grant money for scientific research? That's the "money-grab"? I guess you all believe the world would be a better place if we all lived in the dark ages and didn't waste time spinning our wheels trying to cure cancer, lower the costs of food & fuels, or invent the next supercomputer (or as CCTAU calls them Debil Machines).

Secondly, the very fact that research money chaps your ass to such a degree illustrates one of two things:
1) You don't understand the very basic principles of what science even is. To you, funding research is exactly the same as the Koch Brothers and Chevron paying billions of dollars to politicians to brainwash coots like yourselves. To you, you think that science works backwards from an ends to justify a means. To you, these climate scientists are just slavin' away trying desperately to prove climate change is real so they can really stick it to you guys.
OR
2) You're afraid of the truth. You don't want to know because your delicate ego can't handle having been so belligerent about something in which you are so damned wrong.

Both are ignorant as fuck. Hope you don't mind me saying so since Kaos has decided we should be so blunt in this thread.

Kere's what we've decided:

1.  I'm ignorant as fuck

2.  You're arrogant as Fuck

Not sure by the way which one is worse.  I tell you what, I'll keep driving my gas guzzling mini van, you keep wishing for the day the volt takes over.  Maybe we will offset each other and the earth can continue to not warm like it has for the last 15 years.

I have no faith in a group of scientist that try to scare the shit out of everyone that the world is going to freeze and then turn around when their hypothesis turn out to be false and claim we are going to burn up.  now all this has happened in the mind numbing span of 30 years.

Chizad, what caused the ice age?  Even better, what caused the end of the ice age?  Pretty sure neither was man made.  To think that anything humans can do (we are pimple on the ass of mother earth) will drastically change the weather cycles of earth is extremely arrogant and bordering on narcissistic.

If humans have such power over the earth's climate, how come we can't make it rain in southern California?
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