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Looks Like We're Claiming 'Em

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Looks Like We're Claiming 'Em
« on: January 31, 2014, 11:13:01 AM »
http://auburn.247sports.com/Article/Auburn-may-recognize-more-National-Championships-174444
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Recognizing the champions

    Bryan Matthews

AUBURN, Ala. -- Flags representing Auburn’s National Championships in 1957 and 2010 have flown over Jordan-Hare Stadium for the past three seasons.

Auburn came up just seconds short of winning the 2013 BCS National Championship, but that doesn’t mean there won’t be new National Championship banners raised for the Tigers’ home-opener against Arkansas Aug. 30.

Auburn athletic officials are considering recognizing as many as seven more national championship teams.

“If other schools are using these same polls to declare a national championship, we should at least consider it,” Auburn athletics director Jay Jacobs said. “I don’t think there’s a better time for the Auburn family to consider it than right here at the end of the BCS era.

“As we transition into another playoff format for the national champion, I just think we need to look hard at it.”

The 1910, 1913, 1914, 1958, 1983, 1993 and 2004 teams are all under consideration. Each finished undefeated or won the conference championship, or both. All were recognized as national champions by at least one national selector, which are used by other schools to recognize National Championships.

The facts are laid out quite thoroughly by Michael Skotnicki in his book, Auburn’s Unclaimed National Championships, which was published in 2012.

“Texas A&M decided upon entering the SEC that they would add the 1919 and 1927 titles,” Skotnicki said. “Minnesota added the 1904 title last summer. USC added the 1939 title in 2004. Ole Miss claims three national titles and not one is AP, Coaches’ Poll or BCS.

“Why should Auburn be any different? In this day and age, why should Auburn be so stuffy about it?”

For Jacobs, the teams with the strongest cases are 1913, 1983 and 1993. He was a starting offensive linemen for the 1983 team, that finished 11-1 including a Sugar Bowl win over Michigan.

“Those three teams are listed in the NCAA record book as champions. It’s hard to dispute the NCAA record book,” Jacobs said. “The former players that have been on those teams, they all support it as I do from playing in ’83.”

Jacobs also feels strongly about the 2004 team, which finished 13-0 but was denied a chance to play in the BCS Championship game after both USC and Oklahoma finished undefeated.

USC won the game handily, but was stripped of the title after being hit with NCAA sanctions.

“The 2004 team are national champions,” Jacobs said. “I just find it hard for us to not recognize teams in the same manner that sister institutions have given the same criteria.”

“There is no national champion in 2004, and I think there should be,” said Skotnicki, who holds two degrees from Auburn and is currently a practicing lawyer in Birmingham.

Texas A&M used retroactive rankings by the National Championship Foundation, Billingsley Report and Sagarin to officially recognize the 1919 and 1927 national titles two years ago. In 2012, Minnesota used Billingsley to recognize the 1904 national title.

USC used the Dickinson system to recognize its 1939 title. Ole Miss cites Berryman, Dunkel and Sagarin for its 1959 title, five selectors including Billingsley for 1960, and Litkenhous for 1962.

Alabama also cites different selectors for many of its national championships before 1961 including Football Annual, Billingsley and Helms in 1925, Helms in 1926, the Davis Poll in 1930, Dunkel, Williamson and Football Thesaurus in 1934, and Houlgate in 1941. The 1941 Alabama team finished 9-2 overall, 3rd in SEC and 20th in AP poll.

To this point, Auburn only recognizes the AP national championship in 1957 and the consensus national championship in 2010.

“We’re so competitive. We compare ourselves to other schools,” Jacobs said. “If they’re counting something that we’re not counting, and we’re on equal footing, wouldn’t it be wise to count it.

“I think it’s something we need to consider right now. It’s been talked about here and there, but lets get it out there now and look at it and see what we should do.”

Jacobs and athletic department officials have already taken steps in researching and evaluating each team. Skotnicki met with Auburn officials last summer, and Jacobs said the athletic department’s Recognitions Committee is looking into it.

“We don’t have a timeline,” Jacobs said. “It won’t be an athletic director decision, it will be an Auburn decision. It will be an Auburn family decision. I want to hear from the Auburn people.”

Since publishing his book, Skotnicki has had positive feedback from a lot of Auburn people including a descendent of Legare Hairston, who was the starting quarterback of the 1914 team.

Hairston’s grandson attended one of Skotnicki’s book signings.

“His grandfather would tell him stories of how he scored the winning touchdown in the game against the Carlisle Indians,” Skotnicki said. “It means something to those people. The book meant a lot to him to see his grandfather get recognition as the quarterback on a national championship team, and I think they deserve that.

“I think they should finally get the rings and the recognition they’ve earned.”

Jacobs said he’s very appreciative of the work Skotnicki did writing his book and making a very compelling case for Auburn’s unclaimed national championships.

“It’s right there, nothing but facts. It’s awful hard to argue against facts,” Jacobs said.

Here’s a quick summary of the seven Auburn teams being considered as National Champions...

1910: Finished 6-1 and SIAA co-champions. Outscored opponents 176-9. Recognized national champion by Maxwell Ratings and Kyle Matschke. Coached by Mike Donahue.

1913: Finished 8-0 and SIAA champions. Outscored opponents 203-13. Recognized national champion by six selectors including Billingsley Report, Howell’s Power Ratings, Hatch Mathematical Rankings and Kyle Matschke. Recognized by the NCAA. Coached by Mike Donahue.

1914: Finished 8-0-1 and SIAA champions. Outscored opponents 193-0. Recognized national champion by Howell. Coached by Mike Donahue.

1958: Finished 9-0-1. Outscored opponents 173-62. Recognized national champion by Montgomery Full Season Championship. Coached by Shug Jordan.

1983: Finished 11-1 and SEC Champions. Outscored opponents 311-186 against the fifth-toughest schedule in college football history. Recognized national champion by 10 selectors including N.Y. Times, Billingsley, Massey, Howell and Hatch. Recognized by the NCAA. Coached by Pat Dye.

1993: Finished 11-0. Outscored opponents 353-192. Recognized national champion by four selectors including National Championship Foundation. Recognized by the NCAA. Coached by Terry Bowden.

2004: Finished 13-0 and SEC Champions. Outscored opponents 417-147. Recognized national champion by Darryl Perry and GBE College Football Ratings. Coached by Tommy Tuberville.
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Snaggletiger

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Re: Looks Like We're Claiming 'Em
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2014, 11:15:47 AM »
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO....... :facepalm:
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Buzz Killington

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Re: Looks Like We're Claiming 'Em
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2014, 11:23:39 AM »
I can definitely see 1913, 1983 and even possibly 1993.  The rest?  Meh.
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ssgaufan

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Re: Looks Like We're Claiming 'Em
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2014, 11:32:24 AM »
So Tater tot can now claim he's a NC winning coach?  Damn, Akron got a hell of a coach!
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Re: Looks Like We're Claiming 'Em
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2014, 11:51:29 AM »
I can't see any of them.  Fuck that. 
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The Guy That Knows Nothing of Hyperbole

AUChizad

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Re: Looks Like We're Claiming 'Em
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2014, 11:53:25 AM »
Meh, fuck it.

Other schools (read not just Bama) do this all the time. As the article mentions every one has merit, and every one was awarded a National Championship by some legitimate poll.

The two I'm least crazy about are 93, because we were on probation, and 04 because there was a BCS National Championship game and we didn't get to play in it. Granted, that was some bullshit AND the team who won later had to vacate the title.

It would have been better if we had just come off a legitimate championship from a win in Pasadena and said "Well, while we're putting up banners in Jordan Hare..."

But oh well. I'm ok with it.

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Re: Looks Like We're Claiming 'Em
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2014, 12:08:18 PM »
Meh, fuck it.

Other schools (read not just Bama) do this all the time. As the article mentions every one has merit, and every one was awarded a National Championship by some legitimate poll.

The two I'm least crazy about are 93, because we were on probation, and 04 because there was a BCS National Championship game and we didn't get to play in it. Granted, that was some bullshit AND the team who won later had to vacate the title.

It would have been better if we had just come off a legitimate championship from a win in Pasadena and said "Well, while we're putting up banners in Jordan Hare..."

But oh well. I'm ok with it.

Good point about losing this year's NC.  Looks bad.  Real bad.

Hey we lost but not really because we're Auburn and we've really won NCs in these years.  Roll Eagle.  It's fucking bammerish as hell. 
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Re: Looks Like We're Claiming 'Em
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2014, 12:08:44 PM »
The two I'm least crazy about are 93, because we were on probation

Do you have an issue with 57? 
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Kaos

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Re: Looks Like We're Claiming 'Em
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2014, 12:14:44 PM »
Do you have an issue with 57?

Shut up Woody Hayes
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Snaggletiger

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Re: Looks Like We're Claiming 'Em
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2014, 12:20:15 PM »
Good point about losing this year's NC.  Looks bad.  Real bad.

Hey we lost but not really because we're Auburn and we've really won NCs in these years.  Roll Eagle.  It's fucking bammerish as hell.

This right here.  Especially the timing. 
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Snaggletiger

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Re: Looks Like We're Claiming 'Em
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2014, 12:24:41 PM »
If other schools are using these same polls to declare a national championship, we should at least consider it,” Auburn athletics director Jay Jacobs said. “I don’t think there’s a better time for the Auburn family to consider it than right here at the end of the BCS era.

“As we transition into another playoff format for the national champion, I just think we need to look hard at it.”


What the hell does this even mean? 
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WiregrassTiger

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Re: Looks Like We're Claiming 'Em
« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2014, 12:28:03 PM »
The way I see it is what does it matter iffin they are all mythical pre-bcs anyway? Other schools do it and if it helps with recruiting, I'm o.k. with it. I do think some of those are legitimate arguments but haven't studied it enough to know which ones.

I'm no Jacobs fan but I think it's good for him to bring it up for discussion. I don't know who should make the final decision. The board? The pres?

If something this trivial can help with recruiting, go for it. Do I really buy in? No but it's not for me. It's about convincing a 17 year old kid why he should come to AU and more championships could help. It's perception. Ex: I bet the recruits UA is signing this year truly believe that Bama has 14 football national championships.
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Godfather

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Re: Looks Like We're Claiming 'Em
« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2014, 12:38:05 PM »
Not just no, but Hell NO!
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Snaggletiger

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Re: Looks Like We're Claiming 'Em
« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2014, 12:40:00 PM »
Not just no, but Hell NO!

Listen to him. He's pre-med
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Buzz Killington

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Re: Looks Like We're Claiming 'Em
« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2014, 12:42:03 PM »
If other schools are using these same polls to declare a national championship, we should at least consider it,” Auburn athletics director Jay Jacobs said. “I don’t think there’s a better time for the Auburn family to consider it than right here at the end of the BCS era.

“As we transition into another playoff format for the national champion, I just think we need to look hard at it.”


What the hell does this even mean?
I think he meant now that the subjective eras of bowl tie ins and even the BCS are over and we are headed for a little less subjective way of crowning a champion, we might as well be subjective ourselves.
Even the BCS era was more subjective than a playoff.  Before you shoot me, I realize that picking teams 1-4 is almost as bad, but at least they get to play it off from there. 
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Re: Looks Like We're Claiming 'Em
« Reply #15 on: January 31, 2014, 12:43:29 PM »
I don't really like doing it because when Ole Miss just out of the blue started claiming three national championships back in the mid 90s I was like:
 :haha: :rofl: :bs: :rofl: :haha:

I said then that NOBODY would ever accept that fraud because they'd never ever, ever, ever won one.  But the Rebel Black Bear fans took it to heart. They raised flags. Printed banners. Got t-shirts. Put it on their team trucks. Put it on cups, hats, mugs, shot glasses, notebooks .. pretty much everywhere they could.

I still said nobody would buy it.  I was wrong.

I've seen people on this board mention Ole Miss' "three titles" as if they were universally accepted.

To my amazement I watched one of their games this season and heard the announcers refer to the school's "three national titles"  as if it were unanimous and gospel. 

It doesn't have to be true.  Just say it and it will eventually become fact.  So... I don't want to do it, but if we do we need to unify behind it and say it as if it's a long-known fact.  We have to embrace it if the powers who be decide this is our path.
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Buzz Killington

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Re: Looks Like We're Claiming 'Em
« Reply #16 on: January 31, 2014, 12:44:17 PM »
Got 9?
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Now I may be an idiot, but there is one thing I am not, sir, and that, sir, is an idiot.

Re: Looks Like We're Claiming 'Em
« Reply #17 on: January 31, 2014, 12:46:06 PM »
The way I see it is what does it matter iffin they are all mythical pre-bcs anyway? Other schools do it and if it helps with recruiting, I'm o.k. with it. I do think some of those are legitimate arguments but haven't studied it enough to know which ones.

I'm no Jacobs fan but I think it's good for him to bring it up for discussion. I don't know who should make the final decision. The board? The pres?

If something this trivial can help with recruiting, go for it. Do I really buy in? No but it's not for me. It's about convincing a 17 year old kid why he should come to AU and more championships could help. It's perception. Ex: I bet the recruits UA is signing this year truly believe that Bama has 14 football national championships.

We're the anti-bammer.  We don't lie to ensure recruiting goes the way we need it to go in order to not harm ourselves.  We don't claim national championships to validate our existence. 

Auburn University was thriving as an average top tier football program.  Our numbers were sky high starting back in early 2000 and through the Tuberville years.  Not once did we attribute our university funding, population, and reputation on the quality of our football team.  It was a focal point of our culture, but not the reason for being.  It's why we focus on family and not one head coach and not one football team and not a select few seasons that featured our best football teams. 

But at Alabama, they've seen vast improvements to their university and time and time again, I hear them credit Nick Saban's arrival as the reason.  It's their head coach.  It's their football team.  It's all they have.

Let's be honest, their claim to fame as an academic institution is their law school and their business school.  Not all lawyers and business men are scumbags, but I'd say there are ample more examples of shitty, arrogant, blowharded individuals coming from those colleges than there are coming from the engineering, agriculture, nursing, pharmacy, and veterinarian schools at Auburn.  That is if we're comparing the two university's best college programs. 

So, no, Jay Jacobs, we don't need to look at what everyone else is doing.  Sure, we don't have as much consistent success as other schools.  But we have more class.  We don't have as many national titles as other schools.  But we have more unity and bonding. 

How often do you hear alums talking about moving back to Auburn one day?  How many people showed up to send off a couple of plants?  How often do you hear about Auburn fans and Auburn alums getting arresting for harming others over the result of a football game?  How many pages would an "Isolated Incidents" thread be if it were focused on Auburn? 

We are very, very different from most big time sports schools.  It's what makes us different and special.  It's why everywhere we go, the opposing fans speak of the classiness and generosity of Auburn people.  If we start adopting the ways of other schools, we'll become more like other schools.

Because what honestly will come of this?  Just more ammo to brag and fight on shows like Finebaum and message boards like the SECRant and more cause for fist fights in bars and anger and vitriol and eventually leading to piling it on and on and on and suddenly we have our own Harvey Updykes. 
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Snaggletiger

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Re: Looks Like We're Claiming 'Em
« Reply #18 on: January 31, 2014, 12:46:52 PM »
I think he meant now that the subjective eras of bowl tie ins and even the BCS are over and we are headed for a little less subjective way of crowning a champion, we might as well be subjective ourselves.
Even the BCS era was more subjective than a playoff.  Before you shoot me, I realize that picking teams 1-4 is almost as bad, but at least they get to play it off from there.

What the hell does this even mean?
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WiregrassTiger

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Re: Looks Like We're Claiming 'Em
« Reply #19 on: January 31, 2014, 12:48:05 PM »
The only argument that I've seen is that it would look bad coming off the BCS natty loss and it looks Bammerish. Anything else? Then to address the first one, we just wait a year or so.

All I want to know is what the upside/downside is. The biggest upside I see is it helping in a small way with perception and recruiting. The biggest downside is that it's Bammerish? Is that all?

Give me a more compelling reason.
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