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Could You....Would You Do It?

Snaggletiger

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Could You....Would You Do It?
« on: November 06, 2013, 03:43:20 PM »
Certainly, none of us hope we're ever faced with this choice.  Have no idea how I would react if I faced the same future this guy did.  But as it said, he at least got to go on his own terms.  Coppage de la Pasta teh foxnewz.kum


One day after a life-altering injury, Tim Bowers was presented the grim choice of whether he wanted to live or die.

When the avid outdoorsman was seriously hurt in a hunting accident on Saturday, doctors told Bowers he would be paralyzed and could be on a ventilator for the rest of his life. That grim diagnosis prompted an unusual request from relatives: Could Bowers be brought out of sedation to hear his prognosis and decide his own fate?

After getting approval from doctors, Bowers, 32, chose to take no extra measures to stay alive. He died Sunday, hours after his breathing tube was removed.


"We just asked him, `Do you want this?' And he shook his head emphatically no"
- Jenny Shultz

"We just asked him, 'Do you want this?' And he shook his head emphatically no," sister Jenny Shultz said.

Bowers, who was often hunting or camping with his father on his northeastern Indiana farm, was deer hunting when he fell 16 feet from a tree and suffered a severe spinal injury that paralyzed him from the shoulders down. Doctors believed Bowers might never breathe on his own again.


Medical ethicists say it's rare for someone to decide on the spot to be removed from life support, especially so soon after an injury. But standard medical practice is to grant more autonomy to patients.

Courts have long upheld the rights of patients to refuse life support. But Bowers' case was unusual because it's often family members or surrogates — not the patient — who make end-of-life decisions.

Medical ethicists say it's rare for someone to decide on the spot to be removed from life support, especially so soon after an injury. But standard medical practice is to grant more autonomy to patients.

The heart-wrenching call to remove life support is more often left to relatives. Even when a patient has outlined his wishes for end-of-life care, the decision can tear families apart.

Shultz, an intensive care nurse in Las Vegas, has seen it happen in her job. But her medical training also meant she understood the severity of her brother's injuries. His C3, C4 and C5 vertebrae were crushed.

Though his brain was not injured, his body was irreparably broken. Surgery could fuse the vertebrae, but that would only allow Bowers to sit up. He would never walk or hold his baby. He might live the rest of his life in a rehabilitation hospital, relying on a machine to help him breathe.

Shultz said her brother — the youngest of four siblings — wanted to talk but couldn't because the ventilator tube was still in place. If the tube were removed, she told him, doctors were not sure how long he would live. But when she asked if he wanted the tube reinserted if he struggled, Bowers shook his head no.

Doctors asked Bowers the same questions and got the same responses. Then they removed the tube.

The last five hours of Bowers' life were spent with family and friends, about 75 of whom gathered in the hospital waiting room. They prayed and sang songs. Through it all, Shultz said, her brother never wavered in his decision to die.

"I just remember him saying so many times that he loved us all and that he lived a great life," Shultz said. "At one point, he was saying, 'I'm ready. I'm ready.'"

Patients often change their minds after they have had time to meet with spiritual advisers and family, said Art Caplan, director of the medical ethics program at New York University's Langone Medical Center in New York City.

Dr. Paul Helft, director of the Charles Warren Fairbanks Center for Medical Ethics in Indianapolis, said cases in which the patient makes the decision usually involve a debilitating illness such as Lou Gehrig's disease, which compromises the body but leaves the mind intact.

"We give patients autonomy to make all kinds of decisions about themselves," he said. "We've recognized that it's important that patients have the right to self-determination."

Shultz said her family had an idea what her brother would want because he had previously talked with his wife, Abbey, whom he married Aug. 3, about never wanting to spend his life in a wheelchair.

She knows that not everyone would make the same decision. But she's thankful her brother was able to decide for himself.

"No outcome was ever going to be the one that we really want," Shultz said. "But I felt that he did it on his terms in the end."

The Associated Press contributed


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My doctor told me I needed to stop masturbating.  I asked him why, and he said, "because I'm trying to examine you."

Re: Could You....Would You Do It?
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2013, 04:11:02 PM »
A family friend had a similar experience.  She bought a motorcycle and took it for a spin the first day.  Was just going to take it around the neighborhood block...hit the curb, was thrown off, and broke her neck. 

She chose to live. 

I'll never want to be the one to tell a person they should live or they should die, but now one of her sons has quit his job and moved to B'ham to be near her so he can take care of her.  Her husband who was retired has taken a side job for extra income.  They've had to sell their house and move into one that's more wheelchair ready. 

Some of her friends are spending a lot of money on their own homes to make them more handicap accessible. 

I appreciate the compassion, but if it were me, I'd feel horrible knowing that my decision to stay alive paralyzed from the neck down caused everyone around me to alter their lives. 
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The Guy That Knows Nothing of Hyperbole

Buzz Killington

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Re: Could You....Would You Do It?
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2013, 04:12:34 PM »
I agree.  Especially if I knew I'd have to depend on a ventilator for the rest of my days.
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Now I may be an idiot, but there is one thing I am not, sir, and that, sir, is an idiot.

Snaggletiger

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Re: Could You....Would You Do It?
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2013, 04:19:07 PM »
I agree.  Especially if I knew I'd have to depend on a ventilator for the rest of my days.

avatar.  good thing.

I think...and I certainly can't say for sure unless I was faced with it...but I think I'd want to live if there was any chance of a cure, a fix, whatever the situation may be.  Spinal injuries have always boggled my mind in that with all the advances in medicine, all the breakthroughs in surgical procedures, it seems that's the one area where the medical community goes, "Nope, that's it.  You're paralyzed."  No, build me a new one, sharpish.
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My doctor told me I needed to stop masturbating.  I asked him why, and he said, "because I'm trying to examine you."

Re: Could You....Would You Do It?
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2013, 04:28:54 PM »
At this point in my life with three young children who could not help my wife out I would try to live.  After all, I spend all day sitting in a chair with little wheels on bottom staring at a computer, being paralyzed might not be that different from my normal 9-5 life (we have an engineer here who is paralyzed from the waist down, he doesn't let it slow him down at work or away).

If I'm old and the kids are grown and able to help their mother emotionally and financially I would have to reconsider.
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You meet a man on the Oregon Trail. He tells you his name is Terry. You laugh and tell him: "That's a girl's name!" Terry shoots you. You have died of dissin' Terry.

Token

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Re: Could You....Would You Do It?
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2013, 11:01:43 PM »
I wonder if life insurance would cover if you chose to die. In that event, I'd seriously have to consider it. If not, fuck you, I'm your problem now!
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Ogre

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Re: Could You....Would You Do It?
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2013, 09:36:23 AM »
My wife and I have had several lengthy discussions on this very topic.  I have made it abundantly clear to her (and even included it in my will) that if I am injured bad enough where I can't live without life support then I do not want to live.  I don't want to be another Terry Schiavo where there's a battle over whether or not I should live.  Pull the plug on me and let me go home to glory.  I hate being a burden on people to begin with so I certainly don't want anyone to have to alter their life for me to sit in a bed and be fed through a feeding tube indefinitely. 

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Vandy Vol

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Re: Could You....Would You Do It?
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2013, 09:49:10 AM »
I don't want to be another Terry Schiavo where there's a battle over whether or not I should live.

My guess is that Chad would love if there was a Twitter battle over whether he should remain on life support.
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"You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on." - Dean Martin

Snaggletiger

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Re: Could You....Would You Do It?
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2013, 10:03:41 AM »
My wife and I have had several lengthy discussions on this very topic.  I have made it abundantly clear to her (and even included it in my will) that if I am injured bad enough where I can't live without life support then I do not want to live.  I don't want to be another Terry Schiavo where there's a battle over whether or not I should live.  Pull the plug on me and let me go home to glory.  I hate being a burden on people to begin with so I certainly don't want anyone to have to alter their life for me to sit in a bed and be fed through a feeding tube indefinitely.

Were you referring to a Living Will? If you just added that language to a Last Will & Testament, it would have no bearing on, or give any authority to your wife to pull the plug.   
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My doctor told me I needed to stop masturbating.  I asked him why, and he said, "because I'm trying to examine you."

Ogre

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Re: Could You....Would You Do It?
« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2013, 10:27:25 AM »
Were you referring to a Living Will? If you just added that language to a Last Will & Testament, it would have no bearing on, or give any authority to your wife to pull the plug.

Yes, it's a living will.  I made you the executor too, sorry I forgot to tell you. 
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Snaggletiger

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Re: Could You....Would You Do It?
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2013, 10:29:59 AM »
Yes, it's a living will.  I made you the executor too, sorry I forgot to tell you.

No prob.  I'll be happy to pull the plug.  I may show up at your next visit to a Doc-in-a-Box for a flu shot.

"Doctor, Mr. Ogre doesn't want to be kept alive by flu shots and such and the like.  Please put him down.  I have all the paperwork right here"
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My doctor told me I needed to stop masturbating.  I asked him why, and he said, "because I'm trying to examine you."

dallaswareagle

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Re: Could You....Would You Do It?
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2013, 11:57:07 AM »
Were you referring to a Living Will? If you just added that language to a Last Will & Testament, it would have no bearing on, or give any authority to your wife to pull the plug.

That was the first line of our vows.  Hmm, I didn't really pay any attention at the time.
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A veteran is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America ' for an amount of 'up to and including my life.' That is Honor, and there are way too many people in this country who no longer understand it.'