Smoke Nazis Beaten back in Germany

[Kaos]

I recognize that a lot of these inconsiderate smokers are responsible for initiating this militant intolerance.  I agree with you there, but you might want to consider some creativity in dealing with them.  In particular, I'd recommend learning to deal with it in a way that doesn't empower a police-state.  Perhaps, you can move.  Perhaps, you can encourage them to move.  Perhaps, rather than demanding that they desist in a rude or offensive manner as most inconsiderate non-smokers demand, you should consider offering a polite comment that you appreciate their desire to enjoy tobacco products and that you would also hope that they appreciate the fact that you don't enjoy tobacco products.  Offer to buy them a drink...  Try a little civility and consider their perspective before you get pissed and shoot your mouth off or call on the nanny-state to protect your sensitive little nose.  And, if you really don't think that civility would work with the clientele in the establishments where you encounter these, I suggest that you stop visiting those places.  Again, it's a pretty simple solution. 

You take it for granted that I was rude or uncivil.  Not the case. 

I am a former smoker.  I understand the desire to smoke (and occasionally still have it) and also appreciate that it is inconvenient to have to get up and go somewhere away from everyone to enjoy tobacco.

But your "simple solution" is flawed.  The SMOKER is making the choice to engage in something that he/she is fully aware that the majority finds offensive.  If anyone should move, it is the smoker.  If anyone should be inconvenienced, it is the smoker.  That's just the way it is. 

I've never been rude about it the first time.  Take the Auburn game.  Guy in front of me lights up.  My wife and kids were there and his every exhale sent clouds into their faces.  So I tap him on the shoulder and tell him it's a non-smoking area and ask if he minds either putting it out or going to the concourse to smoke.  He glares and stomps it out.  20 minutes later, he's hiding one in his hand and ducking down to take drags.  So I ask him again.  I get the glare and another stomp.  Before the quarter's over, he's hiding one behind his shaker and turning his head to drag on it.  This time I tell him I've asked twice before and now I'm telling him to put it out and don't light another one, no need to cause a problem for everybody, we all just want to watch the game.  He puts it out.   After the half, he's into his second big cup of bourbon-laced coke (an issue we can take up another day) and just openly fires one up.  So I tell him as nice as I can manage that I've been patient and poiite, but I'm going to have to ask him to put it out and if he can't abide, I'm going to have to get stadium security.  And I get -- in front of my kids --  "Fuck you, pal. Why you gotta be an ASSHOLE?  This is a free country and I will smoke if I GD want to."   But he put it out.  Next time he lit up, I went and got security.  They moved him. Where I don't know or care.   

Unfortunately I find this behavior to be fairly typical of smokers who insist on doing what they want where they want with no regard for the rights of others.  Its guys like this who make smoking bans widely supported.

[GarMan]

But your "simple solution" is flawed.  The SMOKER is making the choice to engage in something that he/she is fully aware that the majority finds offensive.  If anyone should move, it is the smoker.  If anyone should be inconvenienced, it is the smoker.  That's just the way it is. 

Wrong again...  If the smoker is in an area that permits smoking, he shouldn't move.  YOU should.  It is that simple...  PERIOD.  Nobody is forcing you to sit near him, and he has every right to light up if it's permitted.  That's just the way it is. 

I've never been rude about it the first time.  Take the Auburn game.  Guy in front of me lights up.  My wife and kids were there and his every exhale sent clouds into their faces.  So I tap him on the shoulder and tell him it's a non-smoking area <--CUT-->

Once again, nobody is debating that issue.  If it's truly a non-smoking area, you had every right to notify security the first time.  End of story...  Pretty simple to me! 

Now, let's take my situation tonight.  Here I am in Amsterdam, minding my own business.  They just passed a smoking ban that went into affect on July 1st and only applies to tobacco.  Yes, you can still go to the coffee shops and cafes, purchase some weed and light up, but if it's tobacco, you're breaking the law.  (Ridiculous, isn't it?)  Tobacco smoking is only permitted outdoors, but the smoke Nazis are even trying to put an end to that.  Back to my story...  I'm in an outdoor area in Leidseplein.  There are over 100 tables in the area.  Of the 50 or so tables that are populated, virtually every single one of them has somebody smoking cigarettes, and I can see at least five tables within a 4 table radius smoking weed.  I'm at a table with nobody around me.  I pull out my cigar and lit up.  About 1/3rd of the way into it, people start inhabiting the tables around me.  Now, I am one of the most considerate smokers you'll ever meet.  I'm doing my best to make sure that my smoke doesn't end up in anyone's face, especially the hot chicks, but I can't control the wind.  Sure enough, the folks at the table next to me who came long after I had been smoking my cigar began complaining.  That's bullshit.  Nothing ever came of it, but I have no tolerance for that shit.  Later this evening, a couple sat at the table directly downwind from me.  Again, that's not my fuckin' problem.  I got the snares, but seriously, they can go fuck themselves. 

And, that's the rest of the story... 

[Kaos]

Wrong again...  If the smoker is in an area that permits smoking, he shouldn't move.  YOU should.  It is that simple...  PERIOD.  Nobody is forcing you to sit near him, and he has every right to light up if it's permitted.  That's just the way it is. 

WRONG!  Bzzzzzt.  Sorry, but that's the wrong answer. 

The correct answer would be:

if there are a hundred people in an area and only one person is smoking, it's common courtesy for the smoker to move away rather than forcing the majority to move.  And yes, that includes outside.

[chinook]

i'm enjoying this debate. 

classic, but the time difference between amsterdam and kaos is killing me.

[Tarheel]

i'm enjoying this debate. 
...

Me too.

...
classic, but the time difference between amsterdam and kaos is killing me.

Yep, I'm looking forward to having a cigar with GarMan (and, perhaps, Kaos) one of these days; I think GarMan will be back on these fair shores in the near future.

[Saniflush]

I think GarMan will be back on these fair shores in the near future.

What?  Is pride almost over?

[Thrilla]

i'm enjoying this debate. 

classic, but the time difference between amsterdam and kaos is killing me.

As am I.  It's so good, it makes me want to smoke a cigarette after I read each retort.

[Tarheel]

As am I.  It's so good, it makes me want to smoke a cigarette after I read each retort.

That made me chortle.

[Kaos]

That made me chortle.

I would like to chortle, but I drove past someone I think might have been smoking a cigarette across the street today and the second-hand smoke caused an immediate asthma attack. I simply can't draw enough chortling breath.

[GarMan]

WRONG!  Bzzzzzt.  Sorry, but that's the wrong answer. 

The correct answer would be:

if there are a hundred people in an area and only one person is smoking, it's common courtesy for the smoker to move away rather than forcing the majority to move.  And yes, that includes outside.

Well, I strongly disagree with you on that one.  As long as the outdoor area permits smoking, I don't see anything wrong with it.  Yes, "common courtesy" in your situation would suggest that the smoker be the one to move, but if it's a smoking area and the tables have ash trays, the folks who don't smoke are the ones putting themselves in the smoker's zone.  We're not talking "common courtesy" here.  We're talking common sense.  Intelligent folks wouldn't expect to have a picnic on a nice sunny day in the middle of a busy interstate highway without putting themselves at risk for being "runned over".  Similarly, I wouldn't expect for "a hundred people" who are non-smokers to invade a smoker's area and demand the smokers move.  That's ridiculous, and this militant anti-smoking bandwagon continues to prove that it has lost all sense of reason.  

Now, I know that you're probably talking about a park or a beach, but serously, unless you're positioned directly downwind from a smoker, from 15+ feet away, you really have to extend the bounds of reason to suggest that a smoker is causing you problems.  Let's be realistic here.  Of course, there's also the argument of who was there first.  Common courtesy and mutual respect also plays a role, but it does work both ways.  The smokers shouldn't always have to be the ones to move, especially when you consider the fact that the non-smokers are actively petitioning the lawmakers to make all indoor areas non-smoker zones.  

[GarMan]

I would like to chortle, but I drove past someone I think might have been smoking a cigarette across the street today and the second-hand smoke caused an immediate asthma attack. I simply can't draw enough chortling breath.

I think we have a solution for you...

http://www.youtube.com/v/NJ7a9lMSwL8&hl=en&fs=1

[Tarheel]

I would like to chortle, but I drove past someone I think might have been smoking a cigarette across the street today and the second-hand smoke caused an immediate asthma attack. I simply can't draw enough chortling breath.

If your asthma is that sensitive you should always roll up the car window and put your ac on interior circulation.  The air has been so bad here in Atlanta I've had to do that myself.  How do you handle breathing in car and truck fumes?  I'm not trying to be un-sympathetic here but was that a non-smoking road?

[GarMan]

What?  Is pride almost over?

I sense disappointment...  And, you were just getting warmed up.  Perahps, if you left the "center" of the week-long all male bukkake party, you'd realize that it's Wednesday already. 
(You always have to be the "center" of attention, don't you?  You queens are all alike...   )

[Tarheel]

Wrong again...  If the smoker is in an area that permits smoking, he shouldn't move.  YOU should.  It is that simple...  PERIOD.  Nobody is forcing you to sit near him, and he has every right to light up if it's permitted.  That's just the way it is. 
...

Sure enough, the folks at the table next to me who came long after I had been smoking my cigar began complaining.  That's bullshit.  Nothing ever came of it, but I have no tolerance for that shit.  Later this evening, a couple sat at the table directly downwind from me.  Again, that's not my fuckin' problem.  I got the snares, but seriously, they can go fuck themselves. 

And, that's the rest of the story... 

That doesn't surprise me, I find that is typical behavior of the militant non-smokers in such circumstances.  I'm reminded again of that haughty, Bavarian woman who accosted you and I, GarMan, in Diamond Dave's (a fully smoking establishment) on more than one occasion not to mention the "sensitive" wife of one of the singers that used to (operative phrase there) come in there on Monday's and bitch about the smoke in a smoking establishment.

[GarMan]

Another solution for Bubble Boy...  It looks like the Socialist Republic of Kaleefornyazikstan is considering the "outdoor" smoke ban.

http://ktla.trb.com/news/local/eveningnews/ktla-smokingban,0,2049284.story

New "Outdoor" Smoking Ban Proposed in L.A.
KTLA News
August 7, 2008, 8:49 PM PDT

LOMA LINDA -- Smokers in L.A. could face new restrictions, and could be banned from lighting up outdoors.

City Councilman Bernard Parks, who is running for the County Board of Supervisors, is proposing the most restrictive anti-smoking ordinance yet in Los Angeles, and urged the county board to do the same.

Smoking is already banned indoors in Los Angeles restaurants and bars, and outside at parks and beaches, and other council members have introduced ordinances to prohibit smoking at farmers markets and outdoor restaurant patios.
...

[Thrilla]

Another solution for Bubble Boy...  It looks like the Socialist Republic of Kaleefornyazikstan is considering the "outdoor" smoke ban.

http://ktla.trb.com/news/local/eveningnews/ktla-smokingban,0,2049284.story

That's one of the most redonkulous things I've heard all week.  Banning smoking outside?  Please.

Is it funny that the same state that pioneered legalized marijuana (for medicinal purposes) is now discussing banning smoking outdoors?   

[auburnredwing]

The day my porn makes you sneeze and cough and ruins your meal because I'm looking at it in a public restaurant is the day they can come after my porn and I will gladly give it up.

The difference between smoking and anything else is that your right to smoke in public ends the minute it infringes on my right to enjoy an environment free from it.  If you can smoke and never exhale, I'm all good with that.  Invent smoker's helmets that keep the full amount circling your head and I'm good with that too. 

My best friend smokes.  But he's considerate.  He never smokes in our house or in his, he always goes outside and away from others to do so.  If all smokers would follow his lead, you'd never run into issues like you have now. 

amen my brotha... i can't stand being around smoke... it makes me sneeze, gives me a headache, makes my eyes water and smells horrible

[Tarheel]

amen my brotha... i can't stand being around smoke... it makes me sneeze, gives me a headache, makes my eyes water and smells horrible

Then I hope that you have sense enough to stay out of smoking establishments where folk who DO enjoy a good smoke can enjoy their right to do so.

[AU_Tiger_2000]

I like seeing people light up.  It lets me know right off who the morons who don't mind killing themselves slowly are.

[GarMan]

I like seeing people light up.  It lets me know right off who the morons who don't mind killing themselves slowly are.

When it come to cigarettes, I actually agree with you, but don't you dare dis' my 'gars.