Another Loss

[Saniflush]

That's Hawt!

[djsimp]

BOOM MUTHAFUCKA!!!!

Thats 6 grillz and a pimp cup.

[Yoda]

It's time for you to wake the fuck up and realize that this is the fourth year, we have a NEW OC bringing in a Pro-Style Offense, transitioning from the Spread Option Offense (hint: The QB had played in the same Spread Option Offense since his Freshman year, in High School)...we're also have a NEW DC bringing in his NFL style of 4-3, trying to unfuck the the situation that he was brought into (hint: the MLB is the QB of the Defense, CBVG's Defense takes more than a few games to grasp...this coming from former UGA LBer Boss Bailey). Both systems take time, it's nearly the same systematic change that Michigan went through when they hired Rich Rod, but this time it's on both side of the ball and we don't have a pocket passing QB, yet (Frazier is still in the learning phase and he could become something special with a little more time and maturity)....there it is again, time (patience).

Also, you should watch the game again...watch the ZERO push that our OL gets on their front 4 and realize that yes they have underclassmen on their Defense, but it's a system that's been in place for a few years now, coached by a top notch DC in John Chavis (If you have a Dominant front 4, everyone behind them looks a lot better).

So, maybe you should be the one to shut your fucking mouth...unless you want to keep making an ass out of yourself with each and every post.

Patience is a virtue.

Our front four was pretty dominant, yet Holland did not look "a lot" better.

Plenty of head coaches have changed coordinators/schemes and have not looked like complete crap doing so.  I can somewhat understand a slower development on offense, but not a crawl like we are doing.  As for the "Frazier is a spread QB" argument that is crap, that is where you look dumb.  Even a spread QB can throw the ball, Frazier has been most inaccurate when scrambling from pressure, not a weakness a "spread" QB should have.  He has also shown no signs of being able to run.  I actually think that if things at some point click for him, he will be better as a pro style than spread.

But the whole point is that the head man has been there for going on 4 years.  He is the one that has made the DECISIONS that have us in the position we are withe developing players, changing coaches and schemes.  He was credited for winning a tittle and must also be accountable for how things were last year and this year.  Things might change you never know, what we do know is what has already happened and that is what he is judged on.  So your patience argument is not much of an argument, people are free to express their feelings and thoughts as they wish.  We still have 8 games left and its not like anyone is saying fire everyone tomorrow or even at the end of the year. 

You have some good points, you also have some that are completely fan driven those are the ones that most on this board are tired of.  You can support Auburn, support Chizik and support the players and also be realistic with how you see the development of the team.  If shit was always sunshine and roses there would never be room for improvement. 

Great coaching and also cover up player weaknesses, ie. Saban's 2nd and 3rd year at Alabama.

[jmar]

Our front four was pretty dominant, yet Holland did not look "a lot" better.

Plenty of head coaches have changed coordinators/schemes and have not looked like complete crap doing so.  I can somewhat understand a slower development on offense, but not a crawl like we are doing.  As for the "Frazier is a spread QB" argument that is crap, that is where you look dumb.  Even a spread QB can throw the ball, Frazier has been most inaccurate when scrambling from pressure, not a weakness a "spread" QB should have.  He has also shown no signs of being able to run.  I actually think that if things at some point click for him, he will be better as a pro style than spread.

But the whole point is that the head man has been there for going on 4 years.  He is the one that has made the DECISIONS that have us in the position we are withe developing players, changing coaches and schemes.  He was credited for winning a tittle and must also be accountable for how things were last year and this year.  Things might change you never know, what we do know is what has already happened and that is what he is judged on.  So your patience argument is not much of an argument, people are free to express their feelings and thoughts as they wish.  We still have 8 games left and its not like anyone is saying fire everyone tomorrow or even at the end of the year. 

You have some good points, you also have some that are completely fan driven those are the ones that most on this board are tired of.  You can support Auburn, support Chizik and support the players and also be realistic with how you see the development of the team.  If shit was always sunshine and roses there would never be room for improvement. 

Great coaching and also cover up player weaknesses, ie. Saban's 2nd and 3rd year at Alabama.

Holland had ten tackles (2 solos 8 asst.) and broke up a pass, certainly his best game. Yeah I'd say he improved and I'm sure he realizes he can do much better including one missed sack of a QB, the one that he is being called out on the most. Happens to all defenders!

Frazier had a good first half, 8-11 with two drops. He did have that awful second half pick and was sacked twice when he clearly should have thrown the ball away. And other than those three decisions I would say he managed a fair game overall because he gave us a chance which is what he was asked to do.
Bray's muffed punt might have changed the momentum but I saw Lutz fail on some blocks which would have led to positive yards as well. Plenty of blame to go around. We got little from our offensive line late into the third quarter and that hinders Loeffler's play calling ability. 

We have our MLB and our QB and I think the DC and OC are sticking with them.       

[Kaos]

Holland had ten tackles (2 solos 8 asst.) and broke up a pass, certainly his best game. Yeah I'd say he improved and I'm sure he realizes he can do much better including one missed sack of a QB, the one that he is being called out on the most. Happens to all defenders!

Frazier had a good first half, 8-11 with two drops. He did have that awful second half pick and was sacked twice when he clearly should have thrown the ball away. And other than those three decisions I would say he managed a fair game overall because he gave us a chance which is what he was asked to do.
Bray's muffed punt might have changed the momentum but I saw Lutz fail on some blocks which would have led to positive yards as well. Plenty of blame to go around. We got little from our offensive line late into the third quarter and that hinders Loeffler's play calling ability. 

We have our MLB and our QB and I think the DC and OC are sticking with them.       

8 assists means he ran to the pile and dove on at the end of the play.  I've seen that happen repeatedly.

[Yoda]

8 assists means he ran to the pile and dove on at the end of the play.  I've seen that happen repeatedly.

That is correct, and I believe at least one of the solo tackles was a pass to the man he was defending.

[dallaswareagle]

That is correct, and I believe at least one of the solo tackles was a pass to the man he was defending chasing.

adjusted it.

[The Prowler]

1) Our front four was pretty dominant, yet Holland did not look "a lot" better.

2)Plenty of head coaches have changed coordinators/schemes and have not looked like complete crap doing so.  I can somewhat understand a slower development on offense, but not a crawl like we are doing.  As for the "Frazier is a spread QB" argument that is crap, that is where you look dumb.  Even a spread QB can throw the ball, Frazier has been most inaccurate when scrambling from pressure, not a weakness a "spread" QB should have.  He has also shown no signs of being able to run.  I actually think that if things at some point click for him, he will be better as a pro style than spread.

3)But the whole point is that the head man has been there for going on 4 years.  He is the one that has made the DECISIONS that have us in the position we are withe developing players, changing coaches and schemes.  He was credited for winning a tittle and must also be accountable for how things were last year and this year.  Things might change you never know, what we do know is what has already happened and that is what he is judged on.  So your patience argument is not much of an argument, people are free to express their feelings and thoughts as they wish.  We still have 8 games left and

3a)its not like anyone is saying fire everyone tomorrow or even at the end of the year. 

4)You have some good points, you also have some that are completely fan driven those are the ones that most on this board are tired of.  You can support Auburn, support Chizik and support the players and also be realistic with how you see the development of the team.  If shit was always sunshine and roses there would never be room for improvement. 

5)Great coaching and also cover up player weaknesses, ie. Saban's 2nd and 3rd year at Alabama.

1) Never stated that Holland looked ”a lot better”, stated that I saw improvement nothing more.

2) With Frazier being a first year starter it's gonna take a little time to develop...on top of that it takes time to develop a QB, that has played in one particular system during his whole HS football career and his first year in College then makes the transition to a different system.

3) Coach Chizik is the type of Head Coach that lets his Coordinators coach (he steps in when he feels the need too, see last year with the Defense).

3a)Did you forget this thread?

4) & 5) I agree

[Godfather]

3) Coach Chizik is the type of Head Coach that lets his Coordinators coach (he steps in when he feels the need too, see last year with the Defense).

This is the stuff I'm talking about Prowler, you are just talking out of your ass. You have no idea whether this is true or not.

[Yoda]

3a)Did you forget this thread?

I didn't forget about that thread, but again most are not saying that they want Chizik gone at the end of the year, simply bringing it up.  And rightfully so.  After 3 years and 4 games this season, it has to be considered, however the decision should not be made now.  But if this season gets any worse there is definitely reason to strongly consider it at the end of the year.  I think that is the disconnect with you and most others on here.  You want to hate us because we are considering his firing at the end of the year based on facts to this point, yet you want to give him the benefit of doubt and firmly believe it will get better.  I really hope you are correct, but if you take out the 2010 season there are very strong signs suggesting that Chizik is not going to turn this ship around.  For me the biggest issue I have is that we have not had a defense for 3 going on 4 years.  That is a problem in the SEC.  Even in 2010 our defense had holes, thankfully we had an offense that could overcome.

IMO Chizik came in and made some great decisions with the staff he put together.  He also made a great decision to go to the spread, while trying to rebuild the program.  He has made two big mistakes.  First, (I know you Prowler won't agree with this one) he did not get rid of Roof after 2010.  Ok so he let winning the NCG affect his decision, but all of the reasons to fire Roof were there.  Second, hiring Loeffler as OC I believe will be his second horrible decision.  While I think he did it to at least attempt to make Frazier a serviceable QB as he knew we had no other option, it was a big gamble. He should have found a proven OC and hired a QB coach as well.  I don't dislike Chizik at all, I understand that he is a good man a man of character but it bothers me that we have had so many off the field issues. Is he able to teach his beliefs and football knowledge to the players?  To me that is the biggest question.


Look at Chizik's tenure:
2009 showed signs of promise, defense struggled.
2010 won title, defense struggled.
2011 horrible.  Offense struggled, defense was pure crap.  Blow out against UGA, LSU and UA.
2012 off to a 1-3 start, let's see what happens in the next 8 games, but given the facts if huge improvement is not made Chizik's fate should be at least questioned.

[JR4AU]

Look at Chizik's tenure:
2009 showed signs of promise, defense struggled.
2010 won title, defense struggled.
2011 horrible.  Offense struggled, defense was pure crap.  Blow out against UGA, LSU and UA.
2012 off to a 1-3 start, let's see what happens in the next 8 games, but given the facts if huge improvement is not made Chizik's fate should be at least questioned.

If you flip flopped the 2011 and 2012 seasons, I'd get it, I'd say we're improving.  But we've regressed, and it's more than changing schemes.

[Yoda]

If you flip flopped the 2011 and 2012 seasons, I'd get it, I'd say we're improving.  But we've regressed, and it's more than changing schemes.

I agree, I could somewhat see it on offense if we weren't so bad, but on defense there is no reason to still be struggling.

[Tiger Wench]

Written equivalent to 

I admire your tenacity but you do realize that you couldn't get him to admit the stupidity and contradictions and downright Cleopatra nature of his positions with anything short of a two by four, a rabid mongoose and a cement truck, right?

[jmar]

G  Att Comp Pct. Yards  Yards/Att TD Int        Rating Att/G Yards/G
13 328 198  60.4   2612       8.0    22 6          145.73 25.2 200.9

These are the serviceable numbers that should keep us in games since our QB is taking the brunt of the criticism.
At this juncture Frazier can't match the TD/Int ratio obviously but I'm more interested in his Pct. and Yards/Att which are both low numbers (mid fifties and less than five yards per attempt) And as much as I like to see a new guy like Wallace gets some work it makes it tough on a QB to stay in a rythym with the offense, especially one without a 25 carry/game back to help move the chains (see Newton, Campbell and Cox) Nevertheless Chizik and Loeffler have elected to go with this approach and like everyone else I'm just looking for results.
IMO Frazier struggles mainly with his short game, the finesse stuff. This is generally when he is flushed becomes indecisive and bad things happen. He can air it out effectively to the WRs when he sets and throws as witnessed by the first half in the LSU game. (8-11)
I'm just as impatient as the next fan only I see a future winner in the kid that apparently few here do. So for the next 8 games (cupcakes incl.) I'm looking for progress at the position beyond just missing an open receiver or throwing a pick in a desperate last second drive. I think he can become a very good QB, better than just serviceable. Couldn't care less for stats when it comes to winning games but it helps to have something to shoot for.   

[The Prowler]

This is the stuff I'm talking about Prowler, you are just talking out of your ass. You have no idea whether this is true or not.

Coach Chizik hired the guys to do the job and if he ever has to step in and start doing their job (ie having to get a lot more involved than usual), then that particular coach won't be around to start the next season. That's the type of coach, Coach Chizik is. Don't fucking tell me what I know and don't know.

[jmar]

On the new coordinators: I'm very happy at the present with CBVG with the addition of Martinez.

As far as Loeffler goes I'm quite a bit more reticent due to his lack of experience in running an offense on this level but the man needs an opportunity to prove himself since his only true stint was at Temple.Why? How about because he has a fucking contract. We were in desperate need of a QB's coach and he had at least been around some pretty good ones albeit mostly with ground oriented offenses as a player, graduate assistant and full time assistant.
There is no doubt in my mind that Gus Malzahn could systematically cut any defense up if left to his own designs. But whatever took place from his first few years changed my opinion of him dramatically as a "position coach" and play caller. Was it Chizik? I'm going to say yes but the greatest leftovers from the 2010 defense were gone and statistically the numbers were abysmal. I agree Roof should have been gone but who fires the DC after a NC? No seriously! He should have at least been demoted and I think Chizik might have even considered doing just that but given the depth issues and lack of development, he might have looked at a demotion as just a way of prolonging the inevitable. And these are the same decisions that Tub's faced throughout his tenure, the majority of which were well timed and successful.

So as a fan I have no choice but to observe this marriage of wannabe smashmouth offense and lockdown defense while we "tutor" an entire team whose only experience with such is as a four star recruit that has watched Nick Saban's Alabama defenses rule the SEC. But this is what I kept reading and hearing from others including many here. And as impatient as I am I can see some progress being made on the defensive side of the ball. Again, we do not have a runner like Dyer and we have a mostly fledgeling offensive line learning to play together with a shotgun QB relegated to running that had to be confused by how he was utilized last season (I use worse language to describe even a perceived normal 2 QB system) and I'm willing to exercize some "patience" and see what takes place in the games ahead.

I have the Texas A&M game circled as an exam date and expect to have a better feel for what Chizik and Loeffler are trying to accomplish with this offense and Frazier. If I can't exclude the MSU first roadgame results I can't ignore the home game cupcakes either. I agree that Barrett Trotter would have us in better shape at the QB position if for nothing less than his experience but for some reason he elected not to return. Go fucking figure!

   

[Yoda]

I admire your tenacity but you do realize that you couldn't get him to admit the stupidity and contradictions and downright Cleopatra nature of his positions with anything short of a two by four, a rabid mongoose and a cement truck, right?

I get what you're cooking, I don't have half the talent of the likes of Kaos when it comes to expressing myself through writing.  I wanted to make a rational attempt to get my point accross as opposed to the posts I have made in anger after the games.

[Godfather]

Coach Chizik hired the guys to do the job and if he ever has to step in and start doing their job (ie having to get a lot more involved than usual), then that particular coach won't be around to start the next season. That's the type of coach, Coach Chizik is. Don't fucking tell me what I know and don't know.

All you are doing is making more assumptions, you can think all you want.  You still don't know shit.

Booooom Rivals fanboi.

[Snaggletiger]

The only thing I know from the limited times I've watched practice, is that Chizik is extremely involved in the actual practices.  How much or how little he has as far as influence over what the OC and DC are doing, I have zero clue.  Anyone who has been to Chizik's version of a spring game and seen how he stands behind the play and coaches in between plays...that's similar to how he is in practice, except a hell of a lot more vocal.

From the outside looking in, I still can't bring myself to believe he interferes that much in the schemes or overall philosophies of Loeffler or Von Goiter.  I tend to think he does a good bit of in-game direction, as in seeing what the opposing D is doing and telling Loeffler to try this or that, or maybe telling BVG he wants to bring the heat this time.  But IMO, I think he lets them coach and is going to sink or swim with who he hires.  But, the last time Gene Chizik and I had a conversation about it was....oh....let's see.....

One quick note.  Several years back, FSU was playing and they had Bobby Bowden mic'd up for the game.  Pretty cool to listen to. On one series, he told his OC something about how the DB's were playing and it would be a good time to go deep.  Next play....BAM...fly pattern for 6.  That's more along the lines of what I would think Chizik does.     

[Godfather]

The only thing I know from the limited times I've watched practice, is that Chizik is extremely involved in the actual practices.  How much or how little he has as far as influence over what the OC and DC are doing, I have zero clue.  Anyone who has been to Chizik's version of a spring game and seen how he stands behind the play and coaches in between plays...that's similar to how he is in practice, except a hell of a lot more vocal.

From the outside looking in, I still can't bring myself to believe he interferes that much in the schemes or overall philosophies of Loeffler or Von Goiter.  I tend to think he does a good bit of in-game direction, as in seeing what the opposing D is doing and telling Loeffler to try this or that, or maybe telling BVG he wants to bring the heat this time.  But IMO, I think he lets them coach and is going to sink or swim with who he hires.  But, the last time Gene Chizik and I had a conversation about it was....oh....let's see.....

One quick note.  Several years back, FSU was playing and they had Bobby Bowden mic'd up for the game.  Pretty cool to listen to. On one series, he told his OC something about how the DB's were playing and it would be a good time to go deep.  Next play....BAM...fly pattern for 6.  That's more along the lines of what I would think Chizik does.     

Oh I agree with you, and I actually do agree that Chizik is probably pretty hands off when it comes to letting his assistants coach.  I am just tired of Zombie Prowler acting like he knows all the inner-workings of the Auburn Football program.

Shhhhh I think my Chizik phone is ringing.