Greatest Cheater Ever

[Snaggletiger]

Okay fine GH....hit "post" first and steal my thunder.  But I thought about it first.  I just got busy at work.

[GH2001]

Okay fine GH....hit "post" first and steal my thunder.  But I thought about it first.  I just got busy at work.

No but you are 100% correct. How can they retroactively strip titles/records from people when the stuff wasn't illegal at the time and/or their testing was too flawed to catch it.

[WiregrassTiger]

No way he makes it to Cooperstown now.

[Godfather]

No way he makes it to Cooperstown now.

Being 2-499 isn't bad.  You are starting to get the hang of this thing. 

[dallaswareagle]

No way he makes it to Cooperstown now.

I don't know I think he has the ball to make it.

[Godfather]

I don't know I think he has the ball to make it.

Way to kick a guy in the nut when he's down.

[Kaos]

I've axed many times how Barry Bonds and Mark McGuire...now Lance Armstrong etc. should be treated any different than Lyle Alzado.  (Other than the fact that he's dead)  Alzado was an integral part of a Super Bowl Championship and admitted to juicing virtually his whole career.  Don't you take away the Raiders SB win since a guy who was wreaking havoc on opposing QB's and runnings backs was jacked up on juice? 

I look at the whole thing a little differently. I think you change the rules, which they have, to ban PED's and move on. A lot of these guys like McGuire and Sosa and Bonds in baseball...and Alzado and countless others in football..and pretty much throughout sports...were doing this at a time when not only was it not banned, it was almost encouraged.  The MLB powers that be, had no problem looking the other way while their sport was reaching new heights in popularity with records being shattered and fans filling the stands to watch balls fly out of the park...and see Clemens bringing 96 m.p.h. heat.

Don't take away the team win, but Alzado's personal accomplishments?  Shot at Hall of Fame? 

Yeah, that should be gone. 

No HOF for Clemens, McGwire, Sosa or Bonds.  Remove the records they established.  Give them back to people who did things the right way. 

Remove what Lance won (since that was an individual competition, not a team one).  Seems fair.  He stole what others should have won by his nefarious actions.  Those people have now been denied their place in history not to mention any monetary benefits they may have derived from being champions.

[RWS]

No but you are 100% correct. How can they retroactively strip titles/records from people when the stuff wasn't illegal at the time and/or their testing was too flawed to catch it.

So, he should get an atta-boy for fooling a drug test that was testing for banned substances that he was using?  That doesn't make much sense.  If it wasn't illegal at the time, that's one thing.  But you shouldn't be rewarded for cheating the system.

[dallaswareagle]

So, he should get an atta-boy for fooling a drug test that was testing for banned substances that he was using?  That doesn't make much sense.  If it wasn't illegal at the time, that's one thing. But you shouldn't be rewarded for cheating the system.

Uhhh, you sure you should be saying that.

[GH2001]

So, he should get an atta-boy for fooling a drug test that was testing for banned substances that he was using?  That doesn't make much sense.  If it wasn't illegal at the time, that's one thing.  But you shouldn't be rewarded for cheating the system.

Tell me where I said he should get praised and I'll argue with you about that. Otherwise shutup and go fuck a goat


For one those drugs weren't illegal when the doping started. Two, it was their dumbass fault for not catching him. They got embarrassed because they knew he was doping and their antiquated system failed them. Thus the witch hunt ensued. If they had done their jobs right he would have been caught. Period.

[Snaggletiger]

Don't take away the team win, but Alzado's personal accomplishments?  Shot at Hall of Fame? 

Yeah, that should be gone. 

No HOF for Clemens, McGwire, Sosa or Bonds.  Remove the records they established.  Give them back to people who did things the right way. 

Remove what Lance won (since that was an individual competition, not a team one).  Seems fair.  He stole what others should have won by his nefarious actions.  Those people have now been denied their place in history not to mention any monetary benefits they may have derived from being champions.

But the question remains.  If it wasn't banned at the time and these guys were basically put up on a pedastol and used as the face of baseball, how do you go back and strip anything from them?  Plus, guys like Bonds, Sosa and McGuire got "caught"...some have never admitted nor been proven guilty...because they were hitting bombs.  They were doing what fans paid to see. They were under much more of a microscope later because of their, for lack of a better term, feats of strength.  I'm 100% certain that these guys were a drop in the bucket with regard to how many were using.  What about the pitchers?  Petit admitted it...after he got called out.  Clemens denied and his cases thrown out. 

Anyone remember a guy named Brady Anderson?  Leadoff hitter for the Orioles.  15 year career.  In 14 of those, he averaged 11.5 home runs and 46 RBI's.  Long about the time McGuire and company started launching rockets out of baseball stadiums around the country, pesky little Brady decided one year to "find his stroke" and hit 50 HR's and 110 RBI's.  Ummm...yeah.  Point is, there was no ban, no penalties for usage and no reason not to try and one-up the next guy.  Steroids were a huge part of the sports culture.  I just don't see how you single out those who either got caught later, admitted to it, or those who did neither but we're all are sure they did.  Bonds hit bombs and had a big head.  No HOF for you. 

[GH2001]

But the question remains.  If it wasn't banned at the time and these guys were basically put up on a pedastol and used as the face of baseball, how do you go back and strip anything from them?  Plus, guys like Bonds, Sosa and McGuire got "caught"...some have never admitted nor been proven guilty...because they were hitting bombs.  They were doing what fans paid to see. They were under much more of a microscope later because of their, for lack of a better term, feats of strength.  I'm 100% certain that these guys were a drop in the bucket with regard to how many were using.  What about the pitchers?  Petit admitted it...after he got called out.  Clemens denied and his cases thrown out. 

Anyone remember a guy named Brady Anderson?  Leadoff hitter for the Orioles.  15 year career.  In 14 of those, he averaged 11.5 home runs and 46 RBI's.  Long about the time McGuire and company started launching rockets out of baseball stadiums around the country, pesky little Brady decided one year to "find his stroke" and hit 50 HR's and 110 RBI's.  Ummm...yeah.  Point is, there was no ban, no penalties for usage and no reason not to try and one-up the next guy.  Steroids were a huge part of the sports culture.  I just don't see how you single out those who either got caught later, admitted to it, or those who did neither but we're all are sure they did.  Bonds hit bombs and had a big head.  No HOF for you.

And I don't care what anyone says: rocket and bonds were both phenoms. Drugs or not. They were both badass before them.

[Godfather]

But the question remains.  If it wasn't banned at the time and these guys were basically put up on a pedastol and used as the face of baseball, how do you go back and strip anything from them?  Plus, guys like Bonds, Sosa and McGuire got "caught"...some have never admitted nor been proven guilty...because they were hitting bombs.  They were doing what fans paid to see. They were under much more of a microscope later because of their, for lack of a better term, feats of strength.  I'm 100% certain that these guys were a drop in the bucket with regard to how many were using.  What about the pitchers?  Petit admitted it...after he got called out.  Clemens denied and his cases thrown out. 
 

Yeah but it was an illegal drug.  Again just because these guys weren't caught doesn't make it right.

[Snaggletiger]

And I don't care what anyone says: rocket and bonds were both phenoms. Drugs or not. They were both badass before them.

Heard a national sports talk guy on Yahoo say the same thing.  He said virtually everyone of these guys were HOF candidates long before they decided to juice it up.  But hell, think about it.  It's all they've ever known.  None of them has ever held a "real job".  Playing your sport is all you've ever done and the better you are at it and the longer you play, the more money you make.   

[Snaggletiger]

Yeah but it was an illegal drug.  Again just because these guys weren't caught doesn't make it right.

So is nose candy but that wouldn't keep anyone out of the HOF or cause their records to be stricken.

[AWK]

So is nose candy but that wouldn't keep anyone out of the HOF or cause their records to be stricken.

Cocaine doesn't make someone better at their individual sport.  And in some cases, it will cause people to vacate a win/title.

[Snaggletiger]

Cocaine doesn't make someone better at their individual sport.  And in some cases, it will cause people to vacate a win/title.

Debatable.  How many professional athletes have taken pain killers they didn't obtain legally, in order to get themselves able to play?  Wonder how many times Brett Fahvray took something he wasn't supposed to be taking? 

[AUJarhead]

So all I'm getting from this is that Snaggle is an expert in blow.

[Godfather]

So all I'm getting from this is that Snaggle is an expert in blow.

and the Saints are a bunch of cheaters.

[Token]

Some of you no longer have a right to bitch about anything going on in Tuscaloosa.  If Tom is providing benefits.....if Calloway took a beach vacation on someone's dime.....if Yeldon received any benefits.....if etc, etc......it's totally cool because they haven't been caught. 

And years down the road, if it is found that any of those rumors are true, the NCAA shouldn't strip any scholarships, championships or hand out any bowl bans, because they should have caught the cheating when it was happening. 

Yeah, that makes perfect sense.