What Should Happen At Penn State?

Snaggletiger · « **on:** July 12, 2012, 05:22:21 PM »

Been listening to a lot of sports talk today and obviously today, along with the last few months, the PSU scandal has been at the forefront. Everyone has an opinion and most seem to come down on the side of hammering the University and/or the football program. I have no dog in the fight and certainly no allegiance to Sandusky U. But, I am kind of torn over what, if anything should happen.

On one hand, I simply don't see this as an NCAA matter. When the NCAA gets involved, it usually stems from a program trying to get a leg up on everyone else, whether it be paying players, fixing grades, Phi Mu coke whores for recruits or any other illegal benefit. While I think everyone involved in the scandal, from Sandusky all the way up to the Pres. and anyone else involved, should be ripped a new one both criminally and civilly, I can't see shutting down the program or hitting it with sanctions because of criminal acts that had nothing to do with gaining an advantage or providing illegal benefits in any way.

However....the other side of me sees where it could be exactly that. You've basically covered up horrible criminal activity in order to save the program any embarrassment and try to keep your football program at least at status quo level. I believe it's the nature and severity of the acts and ommissions that has everyone up in arms. If Sandusky had a problem with theft or defrauding investors etc. and Paterno and company tried to cover it up, would we be talking about this? But buggering little boys is off the charts wrong...so here we are.

I don't have an answer. I think I fall on the side of keeping the NCAA out of it and letting the criminal and civil systems handle everything. But you won't get an argument from me if they do come in and drop the hammer. Thoughts?

AUChizad · « **Reply #1 on:** July 12, 2012, 05:38:02 PM »

I feel exactly 100% exactly like you do about it. Almost wrote out my thoughts almost exactly as you did, but hadn't had the time to put it into words.

I get that not only were horrific crimes fostered there, but the coverup to damage their reputation pretty much tainted the whole program.

But I feel like people clamoring for the NCAA to "Give 'em the Death Penalty" have their priorities all out of whack. It's an extension of how I feel about sports in general as of late. People want blood. They want the NCAA to shut a program down so there's one less program to compete with.

This has nothing to do with gaining an unfair advantage. Every single party remotely involved should be punished to the full extent of the law. Let our justice system take care of them. It will. Unless they were selling kids into prostitution to fund the athletic program, this is out of their jurisdiction IMO.

djsimp · « **Reply #2 on:** July 12, 2012, 05:53:56 PM »

I don't feel like all the students at Penn State should be punished for something they had nothing to do with but they should for sure clean house in the administration and other high up people. Also, Penn State should pay in full for everyone of those victims higher education.

wesfau2 · « **Reply #3 on:** July 12, 2012, 06:38:42 PM »

After the civil suits are paid out, PSU won't be able to afford to field a tiddly winks team.

AWK · « **Reply #4 on:** July 12, 2012, 08:29:05 PM »

Quote from: wesfau2 on July 12, 2012, 06:38:42 PM

After the civil suits are paid out, PSU won't be able to afford to field a tiddly winks team.

Fact. Don't need the NCAA. Penn State will be renamed Kids Molested by Sandusky State University after the civil suits.

Kaos · « **Reply #5 on:** July 12, 2012, 09:02:37 PM »

I feel weird about this.

It's like there was one mistake. Maybe Sandusky convinced them he was on drugs, had a tumor or it wasn't what they thought it was.

They made the decision at that point to keep things on the down low.

Then when it came back up it rolled into preservation mode. You've covered once, if you speak out now EVERYBODY is ruined.

I know a lot of people with great character and integrity who, when faced with utter and permanent ruin, take that one tiny step that leads to two that leads to three and then it's too late.

Not defending necessarily, but it's so damn easy now when you have the totality of it all to say what should or shouldn't have been done. The decisions at the time may have looked different.

I don't think Joe was a bad guy. I think he made one bad decision that snowballed. And I think it's possible that at the time he made the decision he might have thought he was doing what was best for everybody. But probably not.

This isn't the NCAA's business. it's a criminal/civil matter.

I do think it shows what can happen when a person becomes so powerful that no one is willing to challenge him. Sounds As Bad As Nutjob across the state?

The Prowler · « **Reply #6 on:** July 12, 2012, 10:26:44 PM »

Quote from: Kaos on July 12, 2012, 09:02:37 PM

I feel weird about this.

It's like there was one mistake. Maybe Sandusky convinced them he was on drugs, had a tumor or it wasn't what they thought it was.

They made the decision at that point to keep things on the down low.

Then when it came back up it rolled into preservation mode. You've covered once, if you speak out now EVERYBODY is ruined.

I know a lot of people with great character and integrity who, when faced with utter and permanent ruin, take that one tiny step that leads to two that leads to three and then it's too late.

Not defending necessarily, but it's so damn easy now when you have the totality of it all to say what should or shouldn't have been done. The decisions at the time may have looked different.

I don't think Joe was a bad guy. I think he made one bad decision that snowballed. And I think it's possible that at the time he made the decision he might have thought he was doing what was best for everybody. But probably not.

This isn't the NCAA's business. it's a criminal/civil matter.

I do think it shows what can happen when a person becomes so powerful that no one is willing to challenge him. Sounds As Bad As Nutjob across the state?

Yeah...and while we're at it, make sure that Ray Gricar fella doesn't say anything (gotta cover all the bases).

Kaos · « **Reply #7 on:** July 12, 2012, 10:41:35 PM »

Quote from: The Prowler on July 12, 2012, 10:26:44 PM

Yeah...and while we're at it, make sure that Ray Gricar fella doesn't say anything (gotta cover all the bases).

I don't know who this is.

JR4AU · « **Reply #8 on:** July 13, 2012, 12:35:42 AM »

Quote from: Kaos on July 12, 2012, 09:02:37 PM

I feel weird about this.

It's like there was one mistake. Maybe Sandusky convinced them he was on drugs, had a tumor or it wasn't what they thought it was.

They made the decision at that point to keep things on the down low.

Then when it came back up it rolled into preservation mode. You've covered once, if you speak out now EVERYBODY is ruined.

I know a lot of people with great character and integrity who, when faced with utter and permanent ruin, take that one tiny step that leads to two that leads to three and then it's too late.

Not defending necessarily, but it's so damn easy now when you have the totality of it all to say what should or shouldn't have been done. The decisions at the time may have looked different.

I don't think Joe was a bad guy. I think he made one bad decision that snowballed. And I think it's possible that at the time he made the decision he might have thought he was doing what was best for everybody. But probably not.

This isn't the NCAA's business. it's a criminal/civil matter.

I do think it shows what can happen when a person becomes so powerful that no one is willing to challenge him. Sounds As Bad As Nutjob across the state?

Nothing more to add. Spot on.

Kaos · « **Reply #9 on:** July 13, 2012, 07:27:33 AM »

Quote from: JR4AU on July 13, 2012, 12:35:42 AM

Nothing more to add. Spot on.

Scarbinsky disagrees and his argument is compelling if emotionally charged.

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2012/07/penn_states_football_problem_d.html#incart_river_default

All Bama fans want Paterno destroyed and disgraced. Then they'll turn their venom on Bobby. The goal is to shove Bryant's moldy carcass back to the top.

bottomfeeder · « **Reply #10 on:** July 13, 2012, 08:04:14 AM »

They should be forced to change their name to Pedophile State.

Godfather · « **Reply #11 on:** July 13, 2012, 08:43:14 AM »

See I think this is more than football. I could care less if they get the death penalty or not.

I really don't know what you do, I think that is what a lot of people are struggling with.

Like I said in the other thread I think you should take away their accreditation. Which by in large would shut them down, I really think this is that big. My problem with this solution or the death penalty is who does this really hurt, but more innocent people. College Students, Faculty, Staff, people that had nothing to do with the cover up.

However, I do believe that an example does need to be made, to show everyone that something like this cannot be tolerated. I just don't know what that example should be.

bottomfeeder · « **Reply #12 on:** July 13, 2012, 08:50:38 AM »

Quote from: Godfather on July 13, 2012, 08:43:14 AM

See I think this is more than football. I could care less if they get the death penalty or not.

I really don't know what you do, I think that is what a lot of people are struggling with.

Like I said in the other thread I think you should take away their accreditation. Which by in large would shut them down, I really think this is that big. My problem with this solution or the death penalty is who does this really hurt, but more innocent people. College Students, Faculty, Staff, people that had nothing to do with the cover up.

However, I do believe that an example does need to be made, to show everyone that something like this cannot be tolerated. I just don't know what that example should be.

Any and all accomplices should see prison time and be subject to civil suits by the victims. All internal records should be confiscated to prove the cases.

Kaos · « **Reply #13 on:** July 13, 2012, 09:13:01 AM »

Here's what puzzles me.

At the time Sandusky "retired" he was at the top of the game. Considered one of the best DC's in the country. The heir apparent to Paterno. Definite HC material.

So he leaves and NOBODY calls to interview him for an opening? He's not in the mix for any job that comes open around that time?

That seems weird. Did Paterno blackball him? We're his antics more widely known?

Something isn't right.

Saniflush · « **Reply #14 on:** July 13, 2012, 09:15:58 AM »

Quote from: Kaos on July 13, 2012, 09:13:01 AM

Here's what puzzles me.

At the time Sandusky "retired" he was at the top of the game. Considered one of the best DC's in the country. The heir apparent to Paterno. Definite HC material.

So he leaves and NOBODY calls to interview him for an opening? He's not in the mix for any job that comes open around that time?

That seems weird. Did Paterno blackball him? We're his antics more widely known?

Something isn't right.

Exactly. At one time he was thought to be the heir apparent for Joe Pa before anyone realized Paterno was going to stay on so long.

CCTAU · « **Reply #15 on:** July 13, 2012, 09:50:44 AM »

Quote from: Kaos on July 12, 2012, 09:02:37 PM

This isn't the NCAA's business. it's a criminal/civil matter.

This is where I lean. The NCAA already thinks that they are the end all to be all. Do we really need to give them the power to venture into these waters. Many of you are so upset that you are willing to allow this to happen to get to what you perceive as justice. Don't fall into the "well its for the kids" mindset. When we start doing that, we start compromising the rights. This will work itself out in court. If any actions need to be taken against PSU, it should come from an education standpoint, not an athletic one. This is not within the NCAA's sphere. So lets not allow them to enter it.

Godfather · « **Reply #16 on:** July 13, 2012, 10:00:27 AM »

Quote from: CCTAU on July 13, 2012, 09:50:44 AM

This is where I lean. The NCAA already thinks that they are the end all to be all. Do we really need to give them the power to venture into these waters. Many of you are so upset that you are willing to allow this to happen to get to what you perceive as justice. Don't fall into the "well its for the kids" mindset. When we start doing that, we start compromising the rights. This will work itself out in court. If any actions need to be taken against PSU, it should come from an education standpoint, not an athletic one. This is not within the NCAA's sphere. So lets not allow them to enter it.

Why do you hate sexy children?

Saniflush · « **Reply #17 on:** July 13, 2012, 10:13:16 AM »

Quote from: Godfather on July 13, 2012, 10:00:27 AM

Why do you hate sexy children?

Jerry, you'll appreciate this.............

Kaos · « **Reply #18 on:** July 16, 2012, 08:15:59 AM »

It seems every sportswriter in the country is calling on the NCAA to eviscerate the Penn State program.

I think that's completely wrong. The NCAA's role is to monitor the amateur status of the athletes. It should become involved only in issues related to a student's eligibility or academic progress. It has no place in criminal matters.

If the NCAA acts on Penn State it sets a terrible precedent.

If the can sanction in the Sandusky case, what prevents it from swooping down on Tuscaloosa after a few players kick out police car windows, sell cocaine and attempt to rob students? What punishment should that collection of transgressions warrant? Saban certainly didn't have his program under control (and doesn't now, he's just able to get situations buried). Should he be flagged with failure to monitor?

And what of Auburn? Four players commit armed robbery? Another has a bar fight? If the NCAA can act on the Sandusky matter, it certainly can reach out to issue an opinion here.

Bad mojo for the NCAA to become involved.

The Six · « **Reply #19 on:** July 16, 2012, 09:06:45 AM »

Quote from: Kaos on July 16, 2012, 08:15:59 AM

Bad mojo for the NCAA to become involved.

Agreed. The knee-jerk reaction from the media is typical. Bobby Knight said it best when he compared that "profession" to prostitution.

Penn State has inherited a big golden post bed but when they pulled back the sheets to climb in they see that JoePa and previous company did indeed take a big

in it and just hoped it would go away. The new regime is left holding that bag and it'll take several years to overcome the bad press. But never discount what winning a lot of games fast can do.