Tigers X - Number one Source to Talk Auburn Tigers Sports

"Who Dat" Bounty Games...

AUChizad

  • Female Pledge Trainer
  • ***
  • 19523
  • Auburn Basketball Hits Everything
Re: "Who Dat" Bounty Games...
« Reply #400 on: June 26, 2012, 11:48:51 AM »
http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=8097121

Listen to
2:19-6:13

Brees:
Quote
It's one thing to have the power to levy punishment, it's another thing to have legitimate reason and evidence that backs that punishment up, and that's the stuff that we have not seen. The only thing that's been proven is that there was a lot of tough talk. When you listen to the Gregg Williams tape, and I certainly don't condone what was in that tape, talking like a mad man and very careless and irresponsible. Mike, you've been in locker rooms before, you hear the stuff that's said. It's much different when things are said "Hey we're gonna go hit him in the mouth" or "We're gonna go rip this guy's head off", it's a big difference from actually saying it, and going out there with an intent to injure or an intent to end a guy's career. And they've proven that there was tough talk, but they haven't proven that money was actually changing hands to go out and intentionally injure people.

Greenberg:
Quote
And Golic, you've said that many times, as you've heard far worse in those locker rooms.

Golic:
Quote
Yep, absolutely. Yep. Yep.
friendly
0
funny
0
like
0
dislike
0
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions

wesfau2

  • ***
  • 13846
  • I love it when you call me Big Poppa
Re: "Who Dat" Bounty Games...
« Reply #401 on: June 26, 2012, 11:55:15 AM »
There are still so many things you refuse to address or even acknowledge.

You post an article that grades the evidence presented.  You highlight every F or incomplete, yet ignore the other pieces of evidence which received higher grades.

A player can audibly be heard to yell "Give me my money" when Vitt informs the players that Favre was hurt in the most recent play.  Hargrove's verbal denial that he said that is blindly accepted.  Furthermore, you ignore the fact that someone on the Saints said it, even if it wasn't Hargrove.

You ignore that Hargrove admitted to being told to "play dumb" when investigators came to ask about a bounty system, and don't want to address what exactly he was being told to play dumb about.

You don't want to acknowledge Williams' apology, and his express statement that he was putting players' safety in danger with his system.  You also ignore Williams' admission that Vitt told Hargrove to lie about a bounty system, and instead choose to believe Vitt's denial.

There are express references in the documents to monetary pay outs, cart-off hits, and bounties, yet you blindly accept an after-the-fact explanation by Williams that these terms don't mean what we think.  This same explanation comes from the guy who stated that Vitt told a player to lie about the existence of a bounty system.  Oh...I'm sorry...not "lie" about a bounty system, but "play dumb," "stick to the story," and "stay on the same page" about something.  I'm sure Williams has an explanation for those terms as well.

Vilma, Smith, Fujita, and Hargrove show up to their appeal hearing, cry about not having exactly 72 hours to review the evidence, and are given until the afternoon (the end of the 72 hour period they are guaranteed) to review the evidence and make their appeal.  Vilma didn't show up to make an appeal that afternoon, and although the other three showed up, they had no response to give to the evidence even after protesting not having enough time (and receiving additional time) to review the evidence.  And Goodell kept the case open for the remainder of last week to allow the players to come back and put up a defense if they feel they have a legitimate case that needs to be considered...yet they didn't, as far as I've heard.

And what has yet to be mentioned is that the Saints have failed to offer anything to refute what the NFL has presented, other than verbal denials regarding the authenticity of documentation and the meaning of words.  Do you think that Goodell rappelled into the Saints' headquarters and stole documentation like a ninja?  Why didn't the coaches, players, and/or their attorneys make copies of documents before handing them over?  Why not submit those copies during the appeal instead of walking away from the hearing and not coming back with any response whatsoever?

For a team which vehemently believes that every accusation is false and that there is no evidence, they sure are failing to present any evidence or provide any verifiable defenses, other than broad verbal denials by those accused.

Strong...to very strong.
friendly
0
funny
0
like
0
dislike
0
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
You can keep a wooden stake in your trunk
On the off-chance that the fairy tales ain't bunk
And Imma keep a bottle of that funk
To get motel parking lot, balcony crunk.

RWS

  • ****
  • 6053
  • The guy your mother warned you about
Re: "Who Dat" Bounty Games...
« Reply #402 on: June 26, 2012, 12:24:02 PM »
Because you can't read.

Don't know how many times it has to be posted.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/serious-implications-goodell-admitting-vitt-evidence-incorrect-fans-021300536--nfl.html
Oh, I can read just fine. The problem is, it says "according to Joe Vitt". That isn't exactly a reputable source at the moment. Unless you are a Saints fan, apparently. I haven't seen anything from Goodell.

By the way everybody, this is just an act by Chizad. He said that he agrees with me on this issue. I told Vandy Vol that Chizad agrees, so he can corroborate that it actually happened.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2012, 12:27:53 PM by RWS »
friendly
0
funny
0
like
0
dislike
0
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions

"You're too stupid to realize that I'm one of the levelheaded Auburn fans around here" - The Prowler

AWK

  • Caller of the "Taint"
  • ***
  • 8190
  • Damn Right.
Re: "Who Dat" Bounty Games...
« Reply #403 on: June 26, 2012, 12:30:00 PM »

Says, You guys is funny.
friendly
0
funny
0
like
0
dislike
0
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
Redskins cornerback DeAngelo Hall said, "Guys don't mind hitting Michael Vick in the open field, but when you see Cam, you have to think about how you're going to tackle him. He's like a big tight end coming at you."

AUChizad

  • Female Pledge Trainer
  • ***
  • 19523
  • Auburn Basketball Hits Everything
Re: "Who Dat" Bounty Games...
« Reply #404 on: June 26, 2012, 12:31:03 PM »
There are still so many things you refuse to address or even acknowledge.

You post an article that grades the evidence presented.  You highlight every F or incomplete, yet ignore the other pieces of evidence which received higher grades.
I did respond to several of them. I skipped exactly two above a "D" without my own comment. Both were to at least try to limit my redundancy, as both items had already been addressed ad-nausea.

Quote
A player can audibly be heard to yell "Give me my money" when Vitt informs the players that Favre was hurt in the most recent play.  Hargrove's verbal denial that he said that is blindly accepted.  Furthermore, you ignore the fact that someone on the Saints said it, even if it wasn't Hargrove.
It wasn't Hargrove. I'm 100% positive. But let's say that it was. Hargrove was punished, and this was their evidence for his punishment. How does it make any sense whatsoever that Hargrove would expect payment after a hit from Bobby McCray and Remi Ayodele in which he was not involved? Also, the play did not result in Favre being removed from the game, so there goes definitive proof of what "cart-off" means. As mentioned in the article by former NFL player Bucky Brooks that I linked and quoted earlier, quote "Players have been known to shout "cha-ching" (mimicking the sound of a cash register) on the field following turnovers". When presented out of context, and you're told what to look for to stretch and connect-the-dots, with a presumption of guilt, then there is high potential for that to look worse than it actually was.

Quote
You ignore that Hargrove admitted to being told to "play dumb" when investigators came to ask about a bounty system, and don't want to address what exactly he was being told to play dumb about.
Nope. I've addressed it many times. I keep having to repeat myself because apparently everyone glazes over what I say in this thread.

I'll just quote myself.
Again, you continue to live in this black-and-white, all or nothing world. He admits to being misleading about the existence of a pay for performance system (which, again, exists in some form on every team in the NFL and has for generations), but adamantly denies admitting that intentionally injuring players had anything to do with these systems.

Quote
You don't want to acknowledge Williams' apology, and his express statement that he was putting players' safety in danger with his system.  You also ignore Williams' admission that Vitt told Hargrove to lie about a bounty system, and instead choose to believe Vitt's denial.
You're repeating yourself. See above. I think there was a pay for performance, and I think Williams was involved. I also think Williams was a "tough talker" as Brees alluded to, and as you're unfamiliar with as commonplace in NFL lockerrooms. I will concede that maybe Williams was a tad more over the top than average. When brought out into the public eye, as those conversations are never intended to be, they look bad, yes.

Quote
There are express references in the documents to monetary pay outs, cart-off hits, and bounties, yet you blindly accept an after-the-fact explanation by Williams that these terms don't mean what we think.  This same explanation comes from the guy who stated that Vitt told a player to lie about the existence of a bounty system.  Oh...I'm sorry...not "lie" about a bounty system, but "play dumb," "stick to the story," and "stay on the same page" about something.  I'm sure Williams has an explanation for those terms as well.
See above.  :facepalm:

And, again, the documents were "reproduced". In what court of law does "reproduced" written confessions, without the originals, or even an accusation of who allegedly wrote them, admissible?

Quote
Vilma, Smith, Fujita, and Hargrove show up to their appeal hearing, cry about not having exactly 72 hours to review the evidence, and are given until the afternoon (the end of the 72 hour period they are guaranteed) to review the evidence and make their appeal.  Vilma didn't show up to make an appeal that afternoon, and although the other three showed up, they had no response to give to the evidence even after protesting not having enough time (and receiving additional time) to review the evidence.  And Goodell kept the case open for the remainder of last week to allow the players to come back and put up a defense if they feel they have a legitimate case that needs to be considered...yet they didn't, as far as I've heard.

And what has yet to be mentioned is that the Saints have failed to offer anything to refute what the NFL has presented, other than verbal denials regarding the authenticity of documentation and the meaning of words.  Do you think that Goodell rappelled into the Saints' headquarters and stole documentation like a ninja?  Why didn't the coaches, players, and/or their attorneys make copies of documents before handing them over?  Why not submit those copies during the appeal instead of walking away from the hearing and not coming back with any response whatsoever?

For a team which vehemently believes that every accusation is false and that there is no evidence, they sure are failing to present any evidence or provide any verifiable defenses, other than broad verbal denials by those accused.
So you're mad because they didn't refute any of the "evidence", and then you're also mad that they are denying the "evidence". I mean, what else can they say besides, "This is bullshit. I didn't say that. I didn't do that. Those documents are fabricated."? The onus of proof is on the prosecutors to validate any evidence they have. Show the originals. Tell us where they came from.
friendly
0
funny
0
like
0
dislike
0
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions

GH2001

  • *
  • 23846
  • I'm a Miller guy. Always been. Since I was like, 8
Re: "Who Dat" Bounty Games...
« Reply #405 on: June 26, 2012, 12:34:56 PM »
I did respond to several of them. I skipped exactly two above a "D" without my own comment. Both were to at least try to limit my redundancy, as both items had already been addressed ad-nausea.
It wasn't Hargrove. I'm 100% positive. But let's say that it was. Hargrove was punished, and this was their evidence for his punishment. How does it make any sense whatsoever that Hargrove would expect payment after a hit from Bobby McCray and Remi Ayodele in which he was not involved? Also, the play did not result in Favre being removed from the game, so there goes definitive proof of what "cart-off" means. As mentioned in the article by former NFL player Bucky Brooks that I linked and quoted earlier, quote "Players have been known to shout "cha-ching" (mimicking the sound of a cash register) on the field following turnovers". When presented out of context, and you're told what to look for to stretch and connect-the-dots, with a presumption of guilt, then there is high potential for that to look worse than it actually was.
Nope. I've addressed it many times. I keep having to repeat myself because apparently everyone glazes over what I say in this thread.

I'll just quote myself.You're repeating yourself. See above. I think there was a pay for performance, and I think Williams was involved. I also think Williams was a "tough talker" as Brees alluded to, and as you're unfamiliar with as commonplace in NFL lockerrooms. I will concede that maybe Williams was a tad more over the top than average. When brought out into the public eye, as those conversations are never intended to be, they look bad, yes.
See above.  :facepalm:

And, again, the documents were "reproduced". In what court of law does "reproduced" written confessions, without the originals, or even an accusation of who allegedly wrote them, admissible?
So you're mad because they didn't refute any of the "evidence", and then you're also mad that they are denying the "evidence". I mean, what else can they say besides, "This is bullshit. I didn't say that. I didn't do that. Those documents are fabricated."? The onus of proof is on the prosecutors to validate any evidence they have. Show the originals. Tell us where they came from.

Goodell now runs a court of law?
friendly
0
funny
0
like
0
dislike
0
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
WDE

AUChizad

  • Female Pledge Trainer
  • ***
  • 19523
  • Auburn Basketball Hits Everything
Re: "Who Dat" Bounty Games...
« Reply #406 on: June 26, 2012, 12:39:57 PM »
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82a1e438/article/players-likely-to-challenge-goodells-bounty-rulings-in-court

Quote
NFLPA planning another legal challenge to Goodell on 'bounty' case
Jason La Canfora
By Jason La Canfora | CBS Sports NFL Insider
June 25, 2012 5:48 PM ET

The NFLPA is prepared to make one other attempt via federal court to attempt to challenge Roger Goodell's powers regarding the Saints players discipline in the "bounty" case, according to sources with knowledge of the situation.

If Goodell ends up upholding his own previous decisions on Jonathan Vilma, Anthony Hargrove, Scott Fujita and Will Smith, the NFLPA has a legal strategy in place to attempt to limit Goodell's powers via the court system. It plans to make the case that he should not have full authority in this matter because on-field discipline is doled out via Ted Cottrell and Art Shell.

The CBA gives Goodell wide berth here, and thus the court challenge may prove fruitless, but the step is likely to be taken to exhaust all legal means with frustration growing in union circles regarding the league's bounty investigation and subsequent penalties. Two grievances on the matter were denied by arbitrators -- they are currently under appeal -- including one that claimed these accusations to be the domain of the on-field justice system (Shell and Cottrell are hired jointly by the NFL and NFLPA).

The strategy also helps explain why the accused players did not speak or raise any new evidence during last week's appeals hearing in New York; they were advised to allow the league to continue the process using its evidence from the lengthy NFL investigation into the matter. Several parties involved in the case figure Goodell will render a decision as soon as this week, with many officials and executives heading to vacation in early July around the holiday, although the league has put no timetable on the commissioner's decision.

A final decision on filing the lawsuit has not been made, sources said, but several people familiar with the case said they expected it to be filed unless the NFL makes a drastic decision in regards to the punishment. The NFLPA has also requested that the NFL start a new investigation into the matter. To this point the NFL has said it stands behind its investigation.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82a1e438/article/players-likely-to-challenge-goodells-bounty-rulings-in-court
Quote
Players likely to challenge Goodell's bounty rulings in court

    By Steve Wyche
    Reporter, NFL.com and NFL Network
    Published: June 25, 2012 at 07:03 p.m.

The players suspended in the aftermath of the New Orleans Saints' "bounty" program have refused to speak with NFL officials, partially to preserve a chance to challenge Commissioner Roger Goodell's jurisdiction in federal court, a source with knowledge of the situation said Monday.

The players had opportunities to confer with officials before their suspensions were handed down and at their appeals hearings last week. However, doing so could have been interpreted as an acknowledgement that Goodell was acting within his proper jurisdiction.


Players have lost two grievances before arbitrators challenging Goodell's jurisdiction to rule against them and hear their appeals. One of those rulings is being appealed.

Linebacker Jonathan Vilma -- who's using his own attorney, not the NFL Players Association lawyers used by the three other players -- possibly tipped the strategy Monday by tweeting, "What's this guy waiting on? Make your ruling so we can get on with phase 2 already."

Vilma apparently was referring to Goodell. The commissioner hasn't ruled whether or not to uphold the suspensions for Vilma (one season), Will Smith (four games), former Saints defensive lineman Anthony Hargrove (eight games) and former Saints linebacker Scott Fujita (three games). The NFL said it hasn't set a timetable for when it could rule.
friendly
0
funny
0
like
0
dislike
0
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions

Saniflush

  • Pledge Master
  • ****
  • 21656
Re: "Who Dat" Bounty Games...
« Reply #407 on: June 26, 2012, 12:48:27 PM »
Huh.  A labor union challenging their labor being disciplined.  Who woulda' thought it?
friendly
0
funny
0
like
0
dislike
0
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
"Hey my friends are the ones that wanted to eat at that shitty hole in the wall that only served bread and wine.  What kind of brick and mud business model is that.  Stick to the cart if that's all you're going to serve.  Then that dude came in with like 12 other people, and some of them weren't even wearing shoes, and the restaurant sat them right across from us. It was gross, and they were all stinky and dirty.  Then dude starts talking about eating his body and drinking his blood...I almost lost it.  That's the last supper I'll ever have there, and I hope he dies a horrible death."

Kaos

  • *
  • 29524
  • It's GO time
    • No, YOU Move!
Re: "Who Dat" Bounty Games...
« Reply #408 on: June 26, 2012, 01:29:38 PM »
GUILTY![/font][/color]
friendly
0
funny
0
like
0
dislike
0
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
If you want free cheese, look in a mousetrap.

Vandy Vol

  • ***
  • 3637
  • Bitches ain't shit but hos and tricks.
Re: "Who Dat" Bounty Games...
« Reply #409 on: June 26, 2012, 01:34:07 PM »
friendly
0
funny
0
like
0
dislike
0
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
"You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on." - Dean Martin

Kaos

  • *
  • 29524
  • It's GO time
    • No, YOU Move!
Re: "Who Dat" Bounty Games...
« Reply #410 on: June 26, 2012, 03:08:10 PM »
Dear Saints:



Congratulations.  You deserve it.  You're bad. 
friendly
0
funny
0
like
0
dislike
0
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
If you want free cheese, look in a mousetrap.

RWS

  • ****
  • 6053
  • The guy your mother warned you about
friendly
0
funny
0
like
0
dislike
0
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions

"You're too stupid to realize that I'm one of the levelheaded Auburn fans around here" - The Prowler

GH2001

  • *
  • 23846
  • I'm a Miller guy. Always been. Since I was like, 8
Re: "Who Dat" Bounty Games...
« Reply #412 on: June 26, 2012, 03:23:27 PM »
You do realize that it doesn't matter, right? Because the players are going to get smacked down in court.

You're going to give Chad a stroke.
friendly
0
funny
0
like
0
dislike
0
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
WDE

djsimp

  • *
  • 13946
  • Why don't you blow me ump!
Re: "Who Dat" Bounty Games...
« Reply #413 on: June 26, 2012, 03:28:48 PM »
You're going to give Chad a stroke.

Well, since he hasn't made a post about the topic since 11:39, I think someone should give him
a call to see if he's still breathing.
friendly
0
funny
0
like
0
dislike
0
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions

AUChizad

  • Female Pledge Trainer
  • ***
  • 19523
  • Auburn Basketball Hits Everything
Re: "Who Dat" Bounty Games...
« Reply #414 on: June 26, 2012, 03:31:48 PM »
You do realize that it doesn't matter, right? Because the players are going to get smacked down in court.
I'm sure they're taking this to court with the full realization that they have no case and will be wasting their own time, money, and further damaging their own reputation... :taunt:
friendly
0
funny
0
like
0
dislike
0
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions

Kaos

  • *
  • 29524
  • It's GO time
    • No, YOU Move!
Re: "Who Dat" Bounty Games...
« Reply #415 on: June 26, 2012, 03:35:05 PM »
I'm sure they're taking this to court with the full realization that they have no case and will be wasting their own time, money, and further damaging their own reputation... :taunt:

The New Orleans Sanduskys are...



friendly
0
funny
0
like
0
dislike
0
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
If you want free cheese, look in a mousetrap.

RWS

  • ****
  • 6053
  • The guy your mother warned you about
Re: "Who Dat" Bounty Games...
« Reply #416 on: June 26, 2012, 03:38:15 PM »
I'm sure they're taking this to court with the full realization that they have no case and will be wasting their own time, money, and further damaging their own reputation... :taunt:
Death row inmates file appeals after conviction all the time. Numerous appeals. It doesn't mean that it has any merit, or makes them less guilty. It's simply a shot in the dark.


Just sayin.......
« Last Edit: June 26, 2012, 03:39:47 PM by RWS »
friendly
0
funny
0
like
0
dislike
0
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions

"You're too stupid to realize that I'm one of the levelheaded Auburn fans around here" - The Prowler

RWS

  • ****
  • 6053
  • The guy your mother warned you about
Re: "Who Dat" Bounty Games...
« Reply #417 on: June 26, 2012, 03:41:11 PM »
You're going to give Chad a stroke.
I'm well aware. That is the only way that this thread is going to end, though.
friendly
0
funny
0
like
0
dislike
0
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions

"You're too stupid to realize that I'm one of the levelheaded Auburn fans around here" - The Prowler

AUChizad

  • Female Pledge Trainer
  • ***
  • 19523
  • Auburn Basketball Hits Everything
Re: "Who Dat" Bounty Games...
« Reply #418 on: June 26, 2012, 03:47:14 PM »
I'm well aware. That is the only way that this thread is going to end, though.
Cause I'm the only one posting in it.

Quit making asinine unfounded accusations and I'll quit shooting holes in your silly arguments.
friendly
0
funny
0
like
0
dislike
0
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions

Kaos

  • *
  • 29524
  • It's GO time
    • No, YOU Move!
Re: "Who Dat" Bounty Games...
« Reply #419 on: June 26, 2012, 03:50:09 PM »
Cause I'm the only one posting in it.

Quit making asinine unfounded accusations and I'll quit shooting holes in your silly arguments.

I don't usually agree with goat fuckers.  But when I do?  The New Orleans Bammers are GUILTY. 
friendly
0
funny
0
like
0
dislike
0
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
If you want free cheese, look in a mousetrap.