"Who Dat" Bounty Games...

[AUChizad]

Correct me if I'm wrong chad but I thought you hated Espn and most other outlets. Now they are legit?

What I hate is anyone with an axe to grind, feverishly desperate to whisk up a scandal, trying to turn sports into some soap opera.

Early on, with only the NFL's word, most of the media was guilty of this. Now that the truth has emerged, even the media sharks have stopped circling and are calling Goodell on his bullshit.

I haven't seen anyone shave their heads and don their matching black & white Nikes to the drum of Goodell's indoctrination anywhere the way that I've seen it here.

And that little grading system is all subjective. Who decides what grades they get? What if I say they all get A's and B's? It all depends on which side you stand that determines how you want to paint the picture.

Well, first of all, this was written by Mike Freeman, who wrote the most contentious piece against the Saints to date the day before the NFL's "evidence" was released, which, along with several other Saints-bashing pieces reminiscent of Pete Thamel's strange obsession with Auburn, earned him a spot as one of the "12 Apostles" of biased journalists Goodell hand-selected to report on the appeal hearing.

[AUChizad]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8090950/scott-fujita-sees-bounty-probe-smear-campaign

Scott Fujita questions probe
Updated: June 24, 2012, 9:12 PM ET

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=espn:8068436

Fujita: NFL Smear Campaign
Scott Fujita says the NFL has embarked on a smear campaign and denies any involvement in Saints bounty program.Tags: SportsCenter, Roger Goodell, Fujita, Saints Bounties, Bounty Program

NEW ORLEANS -- Former New Orleans Saints linebacker Scott Fujita, a union leader who has criticized the NFL's player-safety record, sees elements of a "smear campaign" in a bounty investigation that has sullied his reputation.

Some NFL players agree, and question whether Fujita's three-game suspension has something to do with retribution.

"I'm not saying the NFL is intentionally lying," Fujita said in an interview with The Associated Press. "I've been willing to give them the benefit of the doubt that they may have just been working with the information they've been given, even though much of that information was inaccurate and lacked credibility.

"It's their cavalier interpretation of everything that's been way off. They clearly proceeded with a public smear campaign with very little regard for the truth."

Saints linebacker Scott Shanle finds it hard to ignore the symmetry of the NFL portraying Fujita as a hypocrite on player-safety matters after Fujita had done the same thing to the league.

"When you look at Scott, who was here for one season (of the three spanned by the bounty probe), for him to get three games, I just felt like there had to be more of a personal issue with that," Shanle said. "When you look at how outspoken he is and a lot of the issues he tries to address, it probably doesn't sit well with the league."

NFL spokesman Greg Aiello said the NFL stands by its finding that Fujita gave "more than token amounts" of money to a pool that also rewarded injury-producing hits called "cart-offs" and "knockouts."

"The process gave all of the players every opportunity to raise arguments and provide any mitigating information," Aiello said. "Scott Fujita unfortunately chose not to avail himself of the process. Nothing that he has asserted in his various public statements undermines the findings of the investigation."

Fujita, who now plays for the Cleveland Browns, was one of four current or former Saints suspended in the bounty probe. Two of them, Jonathan Vilma and Will Smith, still play for New Orleans. The other, Green Bay Packers defensive lineman Anthony Hargrove, left New Orleans after 2010, while Fujita left after 2009, the first season covered by the investigation.

In 2010, Fujita became a member of the NFLPA executive committee, and has since echoed comments by Congresswoman Linda Sanchez (D-Calif.) comparing the NFL's 2009 position on concussions' links to brain disease to the way the tobacco industry denied knowledge that smoking caused cancer.

Fujita argued that NFL commissioner Roger Goodell undermined his own credibility on player-safety matters when he pushed for an 18-game regular season.

He called for the NFL to employ independent neurological consultants after Browns quarterback Colt McCoy was knocked out of a game, but allowed to return, despite later being diagnosed with a concussion.

With both undergraduate and master's degrees from Cal-Berkeley, Fujita is seen by contemporaries as someone with a strong command of NFL labor issues, who can be relied upon to hold league officials accountable.

An example Browns players cite came in the summer of 2010, when Goodell visited team headquarters around the league to hear players' concerns about the impending lockout.

Browns players described Fujita challenging Goodell's answers to a range of questions, including how a lockout would affect players' health coverage. Fujita also pressed the commissioner on why the NFL had hired attorney Bob Batterman, who had represented the NHL during its 2004-05 lockout, and why the league negotiated TV contracts that would pay even if games weren't played.

"Scott wasn't scared to ask the tough questions that some of us wouldn't or some of us didn't even know to ask," Browns tight end Benjamin Watson said. "Scott wanted to make sure the commissioner owned up to all that stuff and ... you could tell that Mr. Goodell wasn't comfortable answering some of those questions."

Former Browns linebacker Eric Barton added: "Most people in the room were like, 'This guy (the commissioner) is full of it,' and Scott just called him out, and it was almost like, 'Oh, Scott, you're going to be in trouble.' "

After seeing evidence the NFL presented against him in last week's appeal hearing on the four players' suspensions, Fujita has more questions:

• Why has the NFL linked him to bounties in its public statements, while its disciplinary letter announcing his suspension acknowledges there is no evidence he "pledged money toward a specific bounty" on a particular player?

• Why does that same letter state he was a member of the Saints in the 2010 season, when he was with Cleveland? And what does that say about the quality of the investigation?

• If the investigation was going on for parts of three years, why did no one contact him before the league's first report in March?

• Why did Goodell twice call his personal phone after union attorneys notified the NFL they were representing Fujita, meaning Goodell was not supposed to call him without an NFLPA attorney on the line?

Aiello responded that while the NFL never accused Fujita of targeting a specific opponent, his discipline letter clearly stated "that he contributed a significant sum to the general pool that included payments for nonspecific bounties in the form of 'cart-offs' and 'knockouts.' "

Fujita was not contacted about the probe earlier, Aiello said, because the league was unable to identify specific players and their roles in the program until late in 2011.

"Every individual that was eventually disciplined was invited to speak to our office prior to any decision on discipline," Aiello said. "None of the players, including Mr. Fujita, agreed to be interviewed during the process."

Aiello added that Goodell's calls to Fujita were in response to calls Fujita had placed to Goodell, but the NFLPA said Goodell should not have been making personal calls to players facing punishment at that point.

"It's inappropriate. It is completely outside legal conduct rules," NFLPA lawyer Heather McPhee said. "You cannot directly contact a represented party when you know a party's represented and it's especially odd in this case when Roger purports to be the judge. Picture a judge getting on the phone with a defendant or a suspect."

After the second call, McPhee emailed NFL counsel Jeff Pash and Goodell, saying Fujita would be happy to talk with Goodell with counsel present, but there was no further communication, and Fujita learned days later he'd been suspended.

Fujita said his only chance to speak with Goodell directly came in early March after the release of the initial bounty report, which did not identify players, although Fujita's name had been leaked. Fujita said he called Goodell to explain locker room culture as it relates to tough talk and informal performance incentives, and how it could be misconstrued.

He said Goodell told him then that "he would have no problem coming down hard on Saints coaches, but that when it comes to players, he's not quite sure what he's got."

Fujita acknowledges he offered teammates cash for big plays, mainly because "that's the way it was done when I was a young player and I kind of looked at that as paying it forward."

But Fujita contends he never contributed to team-organized pools, instead paying pledges directly to teammates. The NFL's current collective bargaining agreement applies only to pools organized by team officials, like the one former defensive coordinator Gregg Williams has apologized for running.

According to a transcript AP obtained from the appeal hearing, NFL outside counsel Mary Jo White described an unnamed coach and another witness saying Fujita pledged unspecified sums of cash for "big plays" during the 2009-10 playoffs.

The NFL also presented printed reproductions of handwritten notes, which White said show Fujita pledging $1,000 to a pool for sacks and forced fumbles during the regular season, and $2,000 during the playoffs to a "general pool," which she said in part paid for injury-inducing plays.

The note indicated safety Roman Harper, who was not punished, pledged $5,000 to the general pool, and that assistant head coach Joe Vitt pledged $5,000 to knock then-Minnesota quarterback Brett Favre out of the NFC title game.

Hoping to protect those who helped their investigation, the NFL did not present the original notes or identify who wrote them.

"We don't know who wrote the note. We haven't seen the original, and the fact that Joe Vitt's name is on it proves how bogus it is," Fujita said. "No way he ever contributed, not even $100 for anything. It's not his style."

Vitt has said the part of the document showing his pledge is false, which he said raises questions about all of the evidence.

However the bounty saga winds up, Fujita said he has no regrets about his aggressive tactics as a union leader.

"I've had a few concussions myself. I have a dear friend (former Saints player Steve Gleason) who has ALS. I have a friend and former mentor (Lew Bush) who died earlier this year. Then there was the tragic death of someone I've admired for so long, Junior Seau," Fujita said. "I can't say for sure that all of these things happened because of football, but I've seen enough to have some concerns. I was elected to fight for these men, so in no way do I regret that."

[AUChizad]

For those who still refuse to believe that pay-for-performance schemes exist in every locker room, or that the word "bounty" means anything other than "pay-for-intentionally-injuring-players".

This article is from NFL.com back in early March.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8275bb0f/article/saints-pay-for-performance-system-commonplace-in-nfl

Saints' 'pay for performance' system commonplace in NFL

    By Bucky Brooks NFL.com
    Analyst, NFL.com and NFL Network
    Published: March 3, 2012 at 12:25 p.m.

The news of the New Orleans Saints operating a "bounty" program from 2009 to 2011 under defensive coordinator Gregg Williams has created quite a stir since the news broke Friday, but I will let you in on a dirty little secret: The practice is commonplace throughout the league.

While the salacious details of the "pay for performance" program certainly will draw the ire of Commissioner Roger Goodell, the act of players providing cash bonuses to their teammates for impact plays has been a part of the league's subculture for years.

From my rookie season in 1994 to my final year as a scout in 2007, I was associated with several teams that incorporated various forms of the "bounty" program cited in New Orleans. Most of those bonuses were tied to sacks, interceptions, forced fumbles and return touchdowns, but big hits and knockout shots were also included in the payouts. The financial incentives were established by players prior to the season, typically within a position group, and the payouts ranged from a few hundred dollars to $1,500 at the max.

The money used to make the payments came from fines for various mental errors on the practice field or in games, and the group would designate which players were worthy of receiving the gifts. The intent of the program was to promote accountability for players for their play on the field, while also adding a competitive element to the group.

As silly as it sounds to those on the outside, the thought of collecting a few hundred bucks from your teammates for a big play provides a bit of motivation for a player already cashing huge checks for his performance. Players have been known to shout "cha-ching" (mimicking the sound of a cash register) on the field following turnovers, and the byproduct of utilizing such a "kitty" program is better camaraderie among the group.

In addressing the damning allegations of placing bounties on opposing players, I would like to believe the Saints instituted policies that rewarded defenders for hard but clean shots that separated ball carriers from the ball. These "knockout" shots, as we called them, were not inflicted with the intent to injure, but rather to establish a physical tone that created hesitation and fear in the minds of offensive players venturing across the middle of the field.

Offensive players might scoff at the notion of intimidation impacting the game, but there is something to putting teeth-rattling collisions on tape that alters the way future opponents play the game. If you don't believe me, look at the way receivers short arm balls with defenders in close proximity, or how quarterbacks flinch with rushers bearing down on them. Simply put, big hits matter in this game, and defensive coaches and players overemphasize the importance of physicality.

To illustrate that point, I will point to an example from my time with the Kansas City Chiefs during which we routinely would reward players with framed pictures of their big hits in team meetings. This certainly didn't promote dirty play or encourage defenders to play beyond the whistle, but receiving recognition for a bone-jarring hit definitely was motivating.

The New Orleans Saints won Super Bowl XLIV behind a hard-nosed, aggressive defense that specialized in creating takeaways and pummeling opponents, and Williams' "pay for performance" system is a time-honored tradition in locker rooms across the league.

[Saniflush]

And the NFL is trying to put an end to it and N.O. likes to lie about doing it.

[wesfau2]

And the NFL is trying to put an end to it and N.O. likes to lie about doing it.

Rack him.

That's the end of the discussion.

[djsimp]

Rack him.

That's the end of the discussion.

Please.

[AUChizad]

Rack him.

That's the end of the discussion.

So, you honestly believe that the punishment of a half a million dollar fine, banning Gregg Williams' from the NFL indefinitely, suspending HC Sean Payton for a full calendar year, GM Mickey Loomis for half a season, Assistant HC Joe Vitt for six games, LB Jonathan Vilma for a calendar year, DL Anthony Hargrove for eight games, DE Will Smith for four games, and LB Scott Fujita for three games, all without pay is equitable punishment? Considering that all of the evidence's validity has been called into question, and most of it is verifiable false and factually inaccurate?

Considering that in 2007, the NFL found the Green Bay Packers to be guilty of a "bounty program" and didn't issue any punishment whatsoever?

[Kaos]

Early on, with only the NFL's word, most of the media was guilty of this. Now that the truth has emerged, even the media sharks have stopped circling and are calling Goodell on his bullshit.

 

Wrong

[wesfau2]

So, you honestly believe that the punishment of a half a million dollar fine, banning Gregg Williams' from the NFL indefinitely, suspending HC Sean Payton for a full calendar year, GM Mickey Loomis for half a season, Assistant HC Joe Vitt for six games, LB Jonathan Vilma for a calendar year, DL Anthony Hargrove for eight games, DE Will Smith for four games, and LB Scott Fujita for three games, all without pay is equitable punishment? Considering that all of the evidence's validity has been called into question, and most of it is verifiable false and factually inaccurate?

Considering that in 2007, the NFL found the Green Bay Packers to be guilty of a "bounty program" and didn't issue any punishment whatsoever?

No, I think it's excessive...which has been Goodell's MO for a while.  He started out pussy-footing discipline just like Tagliabue, but he's dropped the hammer recently.

And, really, the "everyone else does it" defense is total bullshit...and very BG03.  You're better than that, Spanish.

[Saniflush]

No, I think it's excessive...which has been Goodell's MO for a while.  He started out pussy-footing discipline just like Tagliabue, but he's dropped the hammer recently.

And, really, the "everyone else does it" defense is total bullshit...and very BG03.  You're better than that, Spanish.

If the punishment is not excessive then the people breaking the rules point and laugh.

[GH2001]

If the punishment is not excessive then the people breaking the rules point and laugh.

This guy ^^^ gets it.

I think we've admitted that it is mostly punitive Chad. He is sending a message. Agree with it or not, that is what is happening here. I'll bet you it stops this kind of behavoir cold, or at the least puts it to a minimum.

[ssgaufan]

Could one of the mods lock this bitch down?

[AUTiger1]

Could one of the mods lock this bitch down?

Mods, I do not appreciate the use of ssgaufan's language.  Besides what does a female dog have to do with this?  Can you spike his warn meter and please move this to the woodshed where it belongs?

[ssgaufan]

Mods, I do not appreciate the use of ssgaufan's language.  Besides what does a female dog have to do with this?  Can you spike his warn meter and please move this to the woodshed where it belongs?

They can shove their warn meters up their asses.

[Saniflush]

They can shove their warn meters up their asses.

Kinky.

[ssgaufan]

Kinky.

With a little anal eze anything is possible.

[AUTiger1]

They can shove their warn meters up their asses.

You just wait mister!

[AUChizad]

Wrong

http://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/saints_bounty_scandal_is_this_all_the_evidence/11082977

Saints Bounty Scandal: Is This "All" The Evidence?
June 25, 2012 2:25 am


Indecisiveness will kill you.

History is replete with stories of generals who sort of, maybe, decided to make a move, only to be crushed for having that move be weak.

The NFL doesn't seem to understand this concept... and it has cost their reputation dearly.

For the last several months, the NFL has been pursuing the allegations of a "pay to injure" scheme. During the entire investigation, they have played their cards very close to the vest, so to speak. We have all operated under the assumption that the suspensions that followed for the coaching staff as well as the players had a trail of substantial evidence. By posturing and refusing to show the public, it may have annoyed some of the fans, but at least it displayed a measure of wisdom by appearing to be just and handle the situation in house.

When public demand increased, Roger Goodell relented to a degree stating that after the process was over, the evidence would be released to the public.

The grand unveiling of the long awaited evidence played out very badly for the NFL. The evidence appears to be less factual and more based on inference. This does not mean that the league can't act on those inferences, but it makes the grounds for doing so decidedly weaker.

Some have suggested that this is only part of the evidence and that the NFL is holding the most crucial pieces back. However, even if that is in fact the case, this was a tactically horrific move.

The league exposed a decidedly weak hand and have announced that the fate of a number of different players was based on this evidence. What could have been used as an effective tool to put this issue to bed, has essentially done the opposite. Instead of running and hiding from the public, players now feel justified in their accusations of inappropriate use of power by the league.

If this is the extent of the evidence that they have, Vilma will likely win his defamation suit in court. He is also not likely to be alone. Other players (and perhaps the coaches) will follow suit. There may be far more powerful evidence that will be released at that time, but the NFL response has now almost ensured that the case will be taken to that point.

The NFL and Roger Goodell had a right to suppress the evidence claiming that it was for the benefit of the league. They also had the right to completely expose a mountain of evidence that made direct connections to a "pay to injure" scheme, and then follow it up with indefinite suspensions for those who forced the information to be released. All of this, again, could have been done based on the premise of protecting the image of the league. Either of these moves would have offered a haven of sorts.

But they did neither. Now the NFL has exposed their position. It is either very weak, or strong but displayed in a way that brings damage to the image of the league...

And now the enemy fire will come.

[GH2001]

http://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/saints_bounty_scandal_is_this_all_the_evidence/11082977

He's dropping an Atom Bomb now because nothing was ever done the last 40 years by any of the pussy commishes. Again, punitive. The Saints are just going to have to take this one in the ass. It is what it is Chizad.

[AUChizad]

Do yourselves a favor and listen to this if you missed OTL today:

http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=8094857&s=espn