"Who Dat" Bounty Games...

[Snaggletiger]

The only thing I have to say about it is that if you are playing within the realm of the rules and making clean hits then why do you need a bounty?  If it's about rewarding good play then put it in the contract.  If I say "$1500 if Favre leaves on the cart" and I'm the coach isn't that telling the players that I want to see Favre out of the game and I'm not real particular about how it happens?

I think we're all in agreement on the intent to injure a specific player issue.  If money is put up to intentionally injure Farvray or Warner or anyone else, the league should come down hard. 

With regard to bounties for "clean hits' or great plays, I think that's a pretty good idea.  It's not really about the money, at least for most of them. However, for the guy signed off the scout team to be a back up and play special teams, yeah, $1,000.00 for causing a fumble on kick off coverage might be a pretty big deal.  But, I would think it's more of a motivational thing.  Don't care for Crown Royal but damn it, something's on the line in Battle For The Crown.  I want to win it.   

[JR4AU]

The only thing I have to say about it is that if you are playing within the realm of the rules and making clean hits then why do you need a bounty?  If it's about rewarding good play then put it in the contract.  If I say "$1500 if Favre leaves on the cart" and I'm the coach isn't that telling the players that I want to see Favre out of the game and I'm not real particular about how it happens?

It's just how the personal motivation happens.  None of those fuckers needs the $1000 bounty to make ends meet financially.  It's like the $1 bet the rich old fuckers had in Trading Places.  Just in fun. 

[AUChizad]

There was a $1500 bonus for "cart off" hits.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/17619056/saints-owner-not-backing-off-support-for-payton-in-bounty-scandal

This sounds like "The money was too good" or Stanley McClover type of bullshit to me.

The players, and players of other programs where Williams coached in the past are denying it.

And the quote from Sharper about how the fine for injuring a player would far outweigh a couple hundred bucks for this bounty, is an ice cold bucket of liquid logic to dump on these allegations.

[Townhallsavoy]

This sounds like "The money was too good" or Stanley McClover type of bullshit to me.

The players, and players of other programs where Williams coached in the past are denying it.

And the quote from Sharper about how the fine for injuring a player would far outweigh a couple hundred bucks for this bounty, is an ice cold bucket of liquid logic to dump on these allegations.

"Alright, kid!  Here's the deal.  You jack that punk ass motherfucker out of the game, and I'll see that you get a couple of grand for it."

"But, Coach!  They gonna fine me about $20,000!  Look at James Harrison!"

"Does this look like a math class to you!?  Or does it look like football?"

"Yes sir.  I'll make sure he's injured next play."

"Atta boy."

[Snaggletiger]

"Alright, kid!  Here's the deal.  You jack that punk ass motherfucker out of the game, and I'll see that you get a couple of grand for it."

"But, Coach!  They gonna fine me about $20,000!  Look at James Harrison!"

"Does this look like a math class to you!?  Or does it look like football?"

"Yes sir.  I'll make sure he's injured next play."

"Atta boy."

Sweep the leg

Sensay?

You have a problem with that?

No Sensay

[AU_Tiger_2000]

Sweep the leg

Sensay?

You have a problem with that?

No Sensay

You're the Best!
Around!
Nothing's gonna keep you down!



Get a body bag Johnny!!!!!  YEEEAAAAHHHH!!!!!

[Snaggletiger]

What do we study here?
THE WAY OF THE FIST SIR.
And what is that way?
STRIKE FIRST. STRIKE HARD. NO MERCY SIR.
I can't hear you.
STRIKE FIRST. STRIKE HARD. NO MERCY SIR

[JR4AU]

What do we study here?
THE WAY OF THE FIST SIR.
And what is that way?
STRIKE FIRST. STRIKE HARD. NO MERCY SIR.
I can't hear you.
STRIKE FIRST. STRIKE HARD. NO MERCY SIR

I thought Sani studied the way of the fist, and that way was plunge hard, plunge deep?

[Kaos]

Uh oh.... they DID know. 

Shut this franchise down.  Seen enough.  Put Mark Ingram in the unemployment line.

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2012/03/payton_loomis_acknowledge_boun.html

[JR4AU]

Uh oh.... they DID know. 

Shut this franchise down.  Seen enough.  Put Mark Ingram in the unemployment line.

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2012/03/payton_loomis_acknowledge_boun.html

Not going to happen.  Don't get your hate for the Saints, but that doesn't matter.  By default this is the hot topic on talk radio, and so many are acting so indignant about it.  But, when you hear players talk, they all tell you this goes on on every team.  It's the culture of the league.  Heard an interview with Joe Horn today, and he said if they're going to spank the Saints, then they better be fair and investigate the entire league.  Said it was happening on every team he played for.  Said Goodell knows damn well this is, and has been going on.   Goodell is going to have to do something, but the more I think about it, it's probably going to be something symbolic, and not really punishment.  I'm thinking fines for all the coaches involved, and for the Saints, but it won't be a lot of money to them. 

[wesfau2]

There was a $1500 bonus for "cart off" hits.

That is intent to injure...and it doesn't matter if it applies to a specific player.

It's perfectly kosher for the players (or a subset thereof: special teams, defense, etc...) to offer up internal incentives for key plays:  sacks, ints, special teams plays inside the 10.  That is the players generating competition amongst themselves for legal objectives.  The league might frown on it, but it won't/can't stop it or articulate an exact rule this violates because it isn't team (read: franchise/league) sanctioned.

The problem here is twofold: 

1) Williams (team/league rep) apparently endorsed this injury for pay incentive...to the extent of providing his own (team?) funds to pay the incentives; and
2) Incentives, regardless of the trigger, paid by the franchise/team violate the cap rules.

[JR4AU]

That is intent to injure...and it doesn't matter if it applies to a specific player.

It's perfectly kosher for the players (or a subset thereof: special teams, defense, etc...) to offer up internal incentives for key plays:  sacks, ints, special teams plays inside the 10.  That is the players generating competition amongst themselves for legal objectives.  The league might frown on it, but it won't/can't stop it or articulate an exact rule this violates because it isn't team (read: franchise/league) sanctioned.

The problem here is twofold: 

1) Williams (team/league rep) apparently endorsed this injury for pay incentive...to the extent of providing his own (team?) funds to pay the incentives; and
2) Incentives, regardless of the trigger, paid by the franchise/team violate the cap rules.

You can collect a "cart off" bonus with a perfectly legal hit.  How do you distinguish?

[wesfau2]

You can collect a "cart off" bonus with a perfectly legal hit.  How do you distinguish?

The carting off can be the result of a legal hit...but if the intent of the hit is to get the player carted off, then you have hit with intent to injure.

Not all rectangles are squares, but all squares are rectangles.

[JR4AU]

The carting off can be the result of a legal hit...but if the intent of the hit is to get the player carted off, then you have hit with intent to injure.

Not all rectangles are squares, but all squares are rectangles.

The "intent to injure" can be a part of the game that the parties consent to, assuming legal hits.

[Kaos]

They STANK.  And I hate 'em. 

First of all, they're lazy good for nothin' tricksters, crack smokin' swindlers, big butt havin', big head swellin' takin' up all the good team's press.

[GH2001]

The carting off can be the result of a legal hit...but if the intent of the hit is to get the player carted off, then you have hit with intent to injure.

Not all rectangles are squares, but all squares are rectangles.

On THIS....I agree with you 100%. The intent is the key here.

[JR4AU]

The carting off can be the result of a legal hit...but if the intent of the hit is to get the player carted off, then you have hit with intent to injure.

Not all rectangles are squares, but all squares are rectangles.

How do you distinguish the intent to do your job with the most force possible, from the intent to inflict a specific injury?  Football is not played with a "only the force necessary to do the job", it's played (and coached) to be: "bring as much force to the play as you can, every play".   If it's a legal hit, that occurs between the whistles, it's going to be difficult to determine an intent to injure.

[GH2001]

How do you distinguish the intent to do your job with the most force possible, from the intent to inflict a specific injury?  Football is not played with a "only the force necessary to do the job", it's played (and coached) to be: "bring as much force to the play as you can, every play".   If it's a legal hit, that occurs between the whistles, it's going to be difficult to determine an intent to injure.

This is where the "paying them" to purposely injure players comes in. That's about the only way intent can be proven. A player would need to come fwd and say "yeah, I was paid to injury Warner. That was the sole purpose of what I did. And Coach Gregg W paid me too. Simple as that." Hell, Williams may admit it if there is enough witnesses and evidence.

[JR4AU]

This is where the "paying them" to purposely injure players comes in. That's about the only way intent can be proven. A player would need to come fwd and say "yeah, I was paid to injury Warner. That was the sole purpose of what I did. And Coach Gregg W paid me too. Simple as that." Hell, Williams may admit it if there is enough witnesses and evidence.

I don't think anybody is going to admit that.  Their may be a snitch that will allege it, but I don't think anybody is going to admit to what amounts to criminal behavior.   And, yes, they, could be charged and/or sued.  Trust me, this is being discussed behind closed doors, and they're (owners, players and coaches) circling the wagons.

[GH2001]

I don't think anybody is going to admit that.  Their may be a snitch that will allege it, but I don't think anybody is going to admit to what amounts to criminal behavior.   And, yes, they, could be charged and/or sued.  Trust me, this is being discussed behind closed doors, and they're (owners, players and coaches) circling the wagons.

But I think someone (more than 1) have already done such. Or this wouldn't be a story. Payton has even admitted it happened now.