What's funny to me...

Kaos · « **Reply #40 on:** October 25, 2011, 12:03:34 PM »

Go back and watch for yourself. When they tried to pour it on with the blitz or the line was getting mauled it was one step, two step, third step rifle the ball for a ten yard completion on the sideline route.

Drift back and duck is not the same.

You CAN win with a mediocre quarterback. Wish AU had one. Mediocre would be a drastic improvement.

Of course anybody looks mediocre compared to Cam, but still.

AUTiger1 · « **Reply #41 on:** October 25, 2011, 12:10:32 PM »

Cam could do what Cam could do b/c he was superhuman, but you also realize that Cam wouldn't have the stats he had last year playing with this years line? They would still be unreal, but there were games when the line made the difference.

Mosley and Fraizer are doing/done what they are doing/done (Against UF and LSU) b/c we have shitty line play and they have no time to do shit. Mosley would be as serviceable as Chris Todd if not better with the OL we had last year. There is no way that you say with a straight face that Todd has a better arm than Mosley and I would say that Mosley is a tad bit quicker. Todd had a pretty damn good line to help him out.

It's both the OL and our QB's. You can't pin it all one or the other. The QB's are sucking and the OL is blowing.

I think people forget (except Cam, b/c he damn sure sang their praises last season) how bad ass Ziemba, Isom, Pugh and Berry were.

wesfau2 · « **Reply #42 on:** October 25, 2011, 12:11:18 PM »

Quote from: Kaos on October 25, 2011, 12:03:34 PM

Go back and watch for yourself. When they tried to pour it on with the blitz or the line was getting mauled it was one step, two step, third step rifle the ball for a ten yard completion on the sideline route.

Drift back and duck is not the same.

You CAN win with a mediocre quarterback. Wish AU had one. Mediocre would be a drastic improvement.

Of course anybody looks mediocre compared to Cam, but still.

Agree with this generally, but if you truly see no difference in the OL between 2010 and 2011, then you are being willfully blind.

Kaos · « **Reply #43 on:** October 25, 2011, 12:15:18 PM »

Quote from: wesfau2 on October 25, 2011, 12:11:18 PM

Agree with this generally, but if you truly see no difference in the OL between 2010 and 2011, then you are being willfully blind.

It's not an earth-rending difference. It's definitely not difference enough to drop production from 40 points per game to 10.

Townhallsavoy · « **Reply #44 on:** October 25, 2011, 12:20:41 PM »

Quote from: Kaos on October 25, 2011, 12:15:18 PM

It's not an earth-rending difference. It's definitely not difference enough to drop production from 40 points per game to 10.

This.

I'm not seeing an NFL offensive line out there. But they're definitely not getting any help. Neither is Dyer.

When we really push the passing game, we throw an interception. That's killing us.

Gus has had success every place he's been. Except this year. This is the year he couldn't work his magic with the quarterbacks.

wesfau2 · « **Reply #45 on:** October 25, 2011, 12:30:23 PM »

Quote from: Kaos on October 25, 2011, 12:15:18 PM

It's not an earth-rending difference.

Yeah, it is. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this.

Kaos · « **Reply #46 on:** October 25, 2011, 12:33:31 PM »

Quote from: wesfau2 on October 25, 2011, 12:30:23 PM

Yeah, it is. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this.

When somebody says that, all I hear is them conceding they were wrong.

JR4AU · « **Reply #47 on:** October 25, 2011, 12:49:01 PM »

Quote from: Kaos on October 25, 2011, 12:15:18 PM

It's not an earth-rending difference. It's definitely not difference enough to drop production from 40 points per game to 10.

Yeah, it really is! We had a dominant OL last year.

Trotter, nor Mosley is as good as Cam? Shocking revelation.

Is QB play a problem? Yes, it's a problem, but not the problem. LSU was far and away the best defensive front we'll see, at least until bammer. They blitzed the shit out of a RS Soph. making his first start ever in Baton Rouge. The OL, and sometimes the pass pro by the RBs wasn't great. It was horrible at times, and some of the sacks or hurries may have been the fault of Mosley too.

You can win with mediocre QB play only if the rest of the offense isn't mediocre. We are short 2 starting WRs, and our OL isn't really even mediocre, at least not when facing a defense like LSU's.

AWK · « **Reply #48 on:** October 25, 2011, 12:54:58 PM »

You are both right and you are both wrong. It's not just the OL and it's not just the QB. It's both...or a combination thereof that is causing the offensive woes.

wesfau2 · « **Reply #49 on:** October 25, 2011, 12:57:44 PM »

Quote from: Kaos on October 25, 2011, 12:33:31 PM

When somebody says that, all I hear is them conceding they were wrong.

Of course that's what you hear. In reality it's the sane people simply refusing to argue with a brick wall.

Snaggletiger · « **Reply #50 on:** October 25, 2011, 12:58:20 PM »

Gotta' go with a combination of the two but definitely more of the blame lies with the line. There's a video I watched the other day, can't find it right now but it was every offensive play last year that AU ran against LSU. Two things stuck out. Our line owned them. Sure, there were some plays that LSU made but that's to be expected. But for the most part, the blocking was a thing of beauty. However, that being said, another thing that can't be overstated is Cam's influence on what the D did. Go back and look at how many times a play was successful simply due to that extra second or two of time that was bought, simply because Cam took that one quick step towards the line like he was running...then stepped back in the pocket to throw a pass. Amazing how something that simple froze the D. He was just that good and his ability to run forced them to respect him and freeze for that instant.

As for the line, think about it. Ryan Pugh and Lee Ziemba started every game from the time they set foot on campus. Over the course of his career, Ziemba went from around 280 to 320 and Pugh also put on 25 pounds of muscle by his senior year. Berry and Isom joined the line as sophomores and over the next 3 years, that foursome played together with only a hiccup or two for injuries. They knew each other. They knew all the blocking schemes without thinking about it. They had each other's back and said how much of a difference that made in a lot of interviews. Now, we have a true freshman at center. We had Jared Cooper who was never good enough to start, replaced by a 2* lineman who was signed because he camped well and had good feet. Our tackles are both guys who fought to be the 5th starter last year. You take that group and put them in a position where the defense has no reason to respect the run from Trotter or Moseley. Not a good combination.

wesfau2 · « **Reply #51 on:** October 25, 2011, 12:58:55 PM »

Quote from: AWK on October 25, 2011, 12:54:58 PM

You are both right and you are both wrong. It's not just the OL and it's not just the QB. It's both...or a combination thereof that is causing the offensive woes.

I've conceded as much...but the OL is the genesis of all the other problems.

Snaggletiger · « **Reply #52 on:** October 25, 2011, 01:05:17 PM »

Here ya' go

GH2001 · « **Reply #53 on:** October 25, 2011, 01:09:24 PM »

Quote from: Kaos on October 25, 2011, 12:15:18 PM

It's not an earth-rending difference. It's definitely not difference enough to drop production from 40 points per game to 10.

Dude you are on crack.

Isom, Berry, Pugh, Ziemba - that was an all star cast.

Now you have a true fr at Center. And Slade filling in now for one of the lineman that replaced one of the starters from last year. This OL is light years away from last years.

JR4AU · « **Reply #54 on:** October 25, 2011, 01:15:59 PM »

Last year, an example...

Pre snap (look at where the 3 tech. and the NG are...

After the snap, Ziemba has the 3 tech, turned and walled off, the LG is getting up to the LB #11, Isom has the DE in his sights, though the DE runs around Isom's kickout block, essentially blocking himself, and Lutz will lead through on #22. Simple Counter GB, and it went for 30 yards. That's DOMINANT OL play.

We have nothing close to this type of ability to shove people around this year.

Kaos · « **Reply #55 on:** October 25, 2011, 01:18:42 PM »

Quote from: wesfau2 on October 25, 2011, 12:58:55 PM

I've conceded as much...but the OL is the genesis of all the other problems.

I disagree with your disagreement. The OL isn't the best in the league, but it is adequately average for the most part. The signal calling is pretty abysmal. With few exceptions, the QB leaves the pocket when he should step up. And steps up when he should break out. Very little awareness. Trotter was scared to pull the trigger.

Only twice did he play like he's capable. We were behind and needed something to happen against Utah State and we were behind and needed a TD to win at SC. We were in a bind and needed to make something happen. Trotter stepped up and actually played[/b] QB instead of thinking about playing it.

Given the right motivation (at least in those two instances), Trotter actually did pretty well. The rest of the time, though, when he was given the opportunity to think rather than react, he failed to make plays.

I think that's what the coaches saw in him from the start. I imagine he looks like that in practice because he knows there he's not going to lose a game if he makes a mistake. In games he played (at least to me) like he was afraid to make one a mistake -- and that never wins.

In retrospect I'm not sure I would have pulled him now. Moseley isn't any better. Might be worse. Through the first half of the Clemson game, Trotter looked like he was going to at least be adequate and/or average. I wish I knew what happened to him after the 21st point against the Paws.

If we have a QB who can make quick throws, who can take a step or two in the right direction to give himself a lane (like Trotter did in the last drive at SC and the last two drives against USU) nobody would be discussing the OL play. It would take care of itself.

Kaos · « **Reply #56 on:** October 25, 2011, 01:19:54 PM »

Quote from: Snaggletiger on October 25, 2011, 01:05:17 PM

Here ya' go

tl;dw

GH2001 · « **Reply #57 on:** October 25, 2011, 01:23:45 PM »

Quote from: Kaos on October 25, 2011, 01:18:42 PM

I disagree with your disagreement. The OL isn't the best in the league, but it is adequately average for the most part. The signal calling is pretty abysmal. With few exceptions, the QB leaves the pocket when he should step up. And steps up when he should break out. Very little awareness. Trotter was scared to pull the trigger.

Only twice did he play like he's capable. We were behind and needed something to happen against Utah State and we were behind and needed a TD to win at SC. We were in a bind and needed to make something happen. Trotter stepped up and actually played[/b] QB instead of thinking about playing it.

Given the right motivation (at least in those two instances), Trotter actually did pretty well. The rest of the time, though, when he was given the opportunity to think rather than react, he failed to make plays.

I think that's what the coaches saw in him from the start. I imagine he looks like that in practice because he knows there he's not going to lose a game if he makes a mistake. In games he played (at least to me) like he was afraid to make one a mistake -- and that never wins.

In retrospect I'm not sure I would have pulled him now. Moseley isn't any better. Might be worse. Through the first half of the Clemson game, Trotter looked like he was going to at least be adequate and/or average. I wish I knew what happened to him after the 21st point against the Paws.

If we have a QB who can make quick throws, who can take a step or two in the right direction to give himself a lane (like Trotter did in the last drive at SC and the last two drives against USU) nobody would be discussing the OL play. It would take care of itself.

Adequate against most teams. Not against LSU's NFL D. You are expecting way too much out of this OL against D's like LSU and Bama.

JR4AU · « **Reply #58 on:** October 25, 2011, 01:31:46 PM »

Quote from: Kaos on October 25, 2011, 01:19:54 PM

tl;dw

When I see that, I see at someone conceding they're wrong.

Snaggletiger · « **Reply #59 on:** October 25, 2011, 01:47:29 PM »

I say let's see what happens this weekend and then have the same discussion. Ole Mrs. is a team we should...should beat, regardless of who is back there. Not saying we hang 50 on them or even win by 3 or more scores.. But, all things being equal, we should be able to handle this bunch by games end. Prediction wise....10-14 point win. They won't be facing anything close to LSU or even Sakerlina's D for that matter. This weekend should tell us if our line has the ability to give the QB some time. And if they do...does Moseley look solid or does he still go full on tard?