Question for the local X Alabama fans

[jadennis]

I've engaged in a fruitless attempt to discuss Auburn and Alabama football history with some Bama fan on another board. 

I wanted to come here to the bama fans I know best and ask if the concession I was seeking was reasonable.

He was talking about cheating and said how funny it was to him that Auburn fans thought Alabama ever needed to cheat to get players since they have such superior facilities, coaches, history, fan base size, finances, etc.

I made the mistake of saying that aside from overall history and fan base size, that the programs were actually pretty equal these days, and have been for about 30 years.

I was very clear to acknowledge Alabama's superior OVERALL history as a program.  I even listed about 12 other programs I consider more prominent than Auburn, and that the last 30 years doesn't make us a "blue blood" of the sport.

He mocked that idea.  So in an attempt to take some of the "opinion" out of the discussion, I listed the following....

National Titles since 1981
Auburn: 1 (2010)
Alabama: 2 (1992, 2009)

SEC Titles since 1981
Auburn: 6 (1983, 1987, 1988, 1989, 2004, 2010)
Alabama: 5 (1981, 1989, 1992, 1999, 2009)

Undefeated Seasons
Auburn: 3 (1993, 2004, 2010)
Alabama: 2 (1992, 2009)

Iron Bowl Wins
Auburn: 17 (1982, 1983 1986, 1987, 1988, 1989, 1993, 1995, 1997, 2000, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2010)
Alabama: 13 (1981, 1984, 1985, 1990, 1991, 1992, 1994, 1996, 1998, 1999, 2001, 2008, 2009)

Wins since 1981
Auburn: 254 (11 nationally)
Alabama: 226 (22nd nationally)

SEC Wins Since 1981
Auburn: 141
Alabama: 129

Bowls Since 1981
Auburn: 22 (15-6-1)
Alabama: 19 (12-7)

Heisman Trophy Winners since 1981
Auburn: 2
Alabama: 1

NCAA Probations since 1981
Auburn: 1
Alabama: 3

Top 25 Appearances in final poll:

1. 21 : Florida
2. 19 : Auburn
2. 19 : Georgia
2. 19 : Tennessee
5. 17 : Alabama
6. 17 : LSU

Top 15 Appearances in final poll:

1. 20 : Florida
2. 16 : Alabama
2. 16 : Auburn
2. 16 : Tennessee
5. 14 : Georgia
6. 12 : LSU

Top 10 Appearances in the final poll:

1. 16 : Florida
2. 11 : Alabama
3. 10 : Auburn
4. 9 : Tennessee
5. 8 : Georgia
5. 8 : LSU

Top 5 Appearances in the final poll:

1. 11 : Florida
2. 5 : Tennessee
3. 4: Alabama
3. 4 : Auburn
3. 4 : Georgia
3. 4 : LSU

He scoffed at the convenient 30 year time frame.  I told him it's because 30 years ago there was a change in the direction of both programs.  In the 30 years from 1951 to 1980 Alabama won 13 SEC titles.  In the next 30 years they won 5.  Auburn won 1 SEC title from 51 to 80, then 6 in the last 30 years.  I wasn't hiding my agenda....it's the last 30 years that I'm talking about.

So I contended that Alabama has a superior history based on their success up until 30 years ago, but that since that time, the programs have been at least on equal footing.  Bear Bryant is the difference.  Auburn was 12-9-1 vs Alabama before Bryant, and 16-12 since Bryant.

He absolutely couldn't bring himself to admit it.  He went with "delusional" and "dumb ass" while avoiding any substantive responses to the facts. 

So....for the last 30 years the two programs have been equal?  Reasonable statement?

[JR4AU]

Waste of time...

[Snaggletiger]

The key is what is the history after they changed from leather helmets to one's with face masks?

The stats speak for themselves.  Auburn has acquitted itself well in that time period and is established as one of the better programs in the best conference in the nation. And I'd argue that the SEC has been one of the top 2 conferences in any given year during that time span.  We didn't just put ourselves on the map the last 5 years.

Last year, I had a friend of mine arguing til he was blue in the face that the ACC had as good a history in college football as the SEC and at least as many MNC's.  I told him quite frankly, "You done lost yo' damn mind."  So as proof, he googles teh national championships and starts claiming the championships of Miami before they ever joined the conference.  Bottom line, you can't argue with some folks. 

[RWS]

I've engaged in a fruitless attempt to discuss Auburn and Alabama football history with some Bama fan on another board. 

You shouldn't have even wasted your time finding all the statistics, etc. It's very simple. Alabama has had some good teams. Auburn has had some good teams. Auburn has enjoyed the upper hand for a while. Both programs have had great success the past few years. It's not an exact science as to who is better in what areas, etc. It doesn't have to be a pissing match. Both teams are pretty good right now. The whole problem, in a nutshell, is some can't stand anything less than the other side being a train wreck. I think your "at least equal footing" assesment is more than reasonable.

Alabama has cheated in the past. Auburn has cheated in the past. Countless other programs around the country have cheated in the past. It doesn't fucking matter. Winning how many ever SEC titles 30+ years ago doesn't matter. What have you done for me lately? Don't get me wrong. It's cool to be able to look back and say "Man, those would have been some good days......if I was alive then." But, it doesn't have shit to do with present day.

[Kaos]

So....for the last 30 years the two programs have been equal?  Reasonable statement?

They didn't just start playin football in 1981 ya GAH DAMM dumas.  Ya can't ignare BAER BRYANT jus because he beat ya'll's's ASS EVER FUCKIN' YEAR he was the GAH DAMM coach ya dumas. 

That is why ALLABAMA is the GAH DAMM sooper power of the GAH DAMM SEC ya dumas.   EVER BODY aferaid of us.

THAT is why WE GET REESPECK and AU-BARN don't ya GAH DAMM dumas.

[jadennis]

I wouldn't have looked up the stats just for him, I had them and just cut and pasted....took 30 seconds. 

It wasn't so much a pissing match about who was better, or even a discussion of head-to-head.  It was simply saying that 30 years ago things changed.  Auburn started winning more, and Alabama started winning less.

And ever since, it's been pretty darn even.   Nothing bothers me more than misplaced arrogance.  Combine that with ignorance and you have the one combo worse than "Leaders and Legends". 

It was more of a "you'll never be us" vs "for the last 30 years we HAVE been you....minus 2 NCAA probations".   He couldn't bring himself to say it. 

Pride I guess.  Or some kind of mental block or brainwashing, whatever the elder Bammers do to the young ones to erase 1982-1991 and 1993-2007 from their minds.

[jadennis]

They didn't just start playin football in 1981 ya GAH DAMM dumas.  Ya can't ignare BAER BRYANT jus because he beat ya'll's's ASS EVER phukIN' YEAR he was the GAH DAMM coach ya dumas. 

That is why ALLABAMA is the GAH DAMM sooper power of the GAH DAMM SEC ya dumas.   EVER BODY aferaid of us.

THAT is why WE GET REESPECK and AU-BARN don't ya GAH DAMM dumas.

Seems like you've heard that before. 

Oh yeah, the guy also scoffed at the idea of the REC ever having anything to do with cheating.  He said, "I'm a member of the REC, you should come to a meeting, you'd laugh your ass off.  You idiots have built up to something it's not".

I told him that's like saying someone should have known what ENRON was up to because they attended a shareholders meeting. 

[The Prowler]

Seems like you've heard that before. 

Oh yeah, the guy also scoffed at the idea of the REC ever having anything to do with cheating.  He said, "I'm a member of the REC, you should come to a meeting, you'd laugh your ass off.  You idiots have built up to something it's not".

I told him that's like saying someone should have known what ENRON was up to because they attended a shareholders meeting. 

That guy does know that the biggest cheater in the History of the NCAA, the Bahr, started the first Red Elephant Club, after meeting with a group of boosters, right?

[GH2001]

Seems like you've heard that before. 

Oh yeah, the guy also scoffed at the idea of the REC ever having anything to do with cheating.  He said, "I'm a member of the REC, you should come to a meeting, you'd laugh your ass off.  You idiots have built up to something it's not".

I told him that's like saying someone should have known what ENRON was up to because they attended a shareholders meeting.

So where the hell you been dude?

Thought you left. Post more often.

[Saniflush]

They didn't just start playin football in 1981 ya GAH DAMM dumas.  Ya can't ignare BAER BRYANT jus because he beat ya'll's's ASS EVER FUCKIN' YEAR he was the GAH DAMM coach ya dumas. 

That is why ALLABAMA is the GAH DAMM sooper power of the GAH DAMM SEC ya dumas.   EVER BODY aferaid of us.

THAT is why WE GET REESPECK and AU-BARN don't ya GAH DAMM dumas.

Then I always make sure they remember "Ears" Whitworth as well.

[djsimp]

So where the hell you been dude?

Thought you left. Post more often.

He's holding down the AUC.

[AUeagle]

So where the hell you been dude?

Thought you left. Post more often.

   I'll tell you where I've been........"kicking turds to the curb".    I don't take no crap off those inbreds.

[Godfather]

  I'll tell you where I've been........"kicking turds to the curb".    I don't take no crap off those inbreds.

Welcome...enjoy our little slice of teh ebays.

Do you have a dog? Please see Jumbo he has something for you...a gift.

[Jumbo]

Welcome...enjoy our little slice of teh ebays.

Do you have a dog? Please see Jumbo he has something for you...a gift.

Fisting=All In.

[GH2001]

  I'll tell you where I've been........"kicking turds to the curb".    I don't take no crap off those inbreds.

Sounds like southside simp.

Southside, see jumbo for your double fisting. Bring your dog. I promise its good. In a real bad way.

[djsimp]

Sounds like southside simp.

Southside, see jumbo for your double fisting. Bring your dog. I promise its good. In a real bad way.

Holy shit, the old man has finally done it. Hey man, you need to go get you cup to cover that old man nutsack cause the shit gets real over here. Glad to see you've made it. And like mentioned, your dog is requested.

[Godfather]

Holy shit, the old man has finally done it. Hey man, you need to go get you cup to cover that old man nutsack cause the shit gets real over here. Glad to see you've made it. And like mentioned, your dog is requested.

Oh shit...you know these guys.

In that case you start out with -50 points.

[GH2001]

Oh shit...you know these guys.

In that case you start out with -50 points.

Sort of. He's an old man with a crusty sack and a young wife. He's also in Gadsden so he's our hookup for "Dres mom" pictures. Southside, any new charger pics?

[djsimp]

Oh shit...you know these guys.

In that case you start out with -50 points.

Yeah, the guy kind of reminds me of Snaggle in a lot of ways. Mainly because his wife has his balls in her purse. Now that I mention, hey aueagle, never mind about the cup.

Nah, dudes cool. We know him from the AUC and met him at an AUC tailgate. He had the pleasure of watching one of my sons devour the baked beans. He is short of a full deck so he'll fit in nicely here.

[GH2001]

Yeah, the guy kind of reminds me of Snaggle in a lot of ways. Mainly because his wife has his balls in her purse. Now that I mention, hey aueagle, never mind about the cup.

Nah, dudes cool. We know him from the AUC and met him at an AUC tailgate. He had the pleasure of watching one of my sons devour the baked beans. He is short of a full deck so he'll fit in nicely here.

You had to invoke auc didn't ya? I feel gayer just reading it.

Speaking of, someone needs to invite xaff over. Maybe Kevin can since they are such good buds. There aint enough popcorn in this bitch for what would ensue if that guy came onboard.