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Thoughts on the Fire Dept Debate

Token

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Re: Thoughts on the Fire Dept Debate
« Reply #20 on: October 07, 2010, 06:17:46 PM »
Token, I disagree with your analogy, since laws are there to protect everyone, and a policeman enforces the laws of his jurisdiction for everyone present in that jurisdiction. 

I.C.E. has a contract with my agency that requires my agency to transport prisoners in the state of Georgia.  While on these transport details, I am driving in a government vehicle and am required to wear a badge and gun at all times.  If my transport detail carries me into Toccoa Falls Georgia and I need fuel, I must stop at a gas station in that city and purchase fuel.  If I need to use the restroom while at this gas station, I happen across a robbery, should get a good description of the robber and call 911?  After all, I'm not in my jurisdiction. 

Not only will I be called a coward and slammed on local and possible national outlets (as I should be), I've also brought a huge embarrassment on my agency and will most likely lead to the end of my career.  I have a moral obligation to help that person in distress regardless of my jurisdiction.  Not because they are a person being robbed, but because I'm on the scene of the crime with the tools needed to assist the victim. 

You show me a police officer (on or off duty) who refuses to assist a citizen in trouble regardless of jurisdiction, and I'll show you a coward who lacks what it takes to protect the sheep.  You show me a firefighter in the area of a burning house (WITH THE FUCKING FIRE TRUCK) who watches someone's life burn to the ground, and I'll show you someone who won't run into your house to save you or your family. 

My issue isn't whether or not they should have responded.  Their policy prohibits them from responding to houses outside of their jurisdiction who have not paid the fee.  Fine.  But to come the aid of the neighbor, and stand there while this family watches their house burn down?  I have no respect for any fireman on that scene.  The fact that none of them said "fuck the policy, we're already here so let's help the people" tells me all I need to know about those individuals, and their leaders.  It's fucking WATER.  What's it going to cost the department?  $1000.00 at the most?  They are willing to put their department in the line of National public scrutiny for a few hundred dollars? 

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This fire fighting service is an OPTION that was generously extended at a reasonable cost to people who otherwise would not have had access at all.  In this case, the family chose not to avail themselves of the service, with tragic consequences.

People make choices - and some of them have horrible consequences.  That's life.  I understand their anger but - actions have consequences.

Again, my problem isn't with the policy.  It's with these dicksuckers who's conscience allowed them to stand around and not help a citizen (WHO THEY COULD SEE NEEDED HELP).  If their conscience allowed them to stand and watch a family while the house burned down with offering to help, what will their conscience allow them to do when a child is trapped upstairs?  As a citizen of that city, I'd be very concerned with that fire crew and it's leadership.
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AUTiger1

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Re: Thoughts on the Fire Dept Debate
« Reply #21 on: October 07, 2010, 11:52:16 PM »
Bunch of bleeding heart liberals ITT, token brings up somthing.  I woudl help a child in any circumstance, ANY circumstance.  Children don't know the   difference and can't help it that their folks don't abide by the rules and pay the fee.  but that would all that I would do. 

Where is Tarheel and what is his opinon  on this, I would be interested in heraing it?

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Courage is only fear holding on a minute longer.--George S. Patton

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It isn't that liberals are ignorant. It's just they know so much that isn't so. --Ronald Reagan

Saniflush

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Re: Thoughts on the Fire Dept Debate
« Reply #22 on: October 08, 2010, 06:53:47 AM »
He has been pretty tied up at work I think.
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"Hey my friends are the ones that wanted to eat at that shitty hole in the wall that only served bread and wine.  What kind of brick and mud business model is that.  Stick to the cart if that's all you're going to serve.  Then that dude came in with like 12 other people, and some of them weren't even wearing shoes, and the restaurant sat them right across from us. It was gross, and they were all stinky and dirty.  Then dude starts talking about eating his body and drinking his blood...I almost lost it.  That's the last supper I'll ever have there, and I hope he dies a horrible death."

Re: Thoughts on the Fire Dept Debate
« Reply #23 on: October 08, 2010, 10:11:39 AM »
You could have saved me a lot of typing.  Jump in there any time, dipwad.

He's not the best colorman in the league for nothing.
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Tiger Wench

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Re: Thoughts on the Fire Dept Debate
« Reply #24 on: October 08, 2010, 10:20:19 AM »
If you want to debate the HUMMANITY of it, that is one thing.  Humans are ruled by their emotions.  From a human point of view, no way could I have stood there and watched that house burn without helping.  i cannot fathom why the firemen themselves would do that.

But if we are debating the unemotional basic circumstances, I still say that there have to be and should be consequences to people's choices and actions and inactions.  This is an extreme case with a tragic outcome - but the underlying idea is the same.  Until this country stops picking up the slack for people who CAN but DON'T, people will not be inclined to DO for themselves at all, knowing that Big Brother will take care of them, so why bother?

I guarantee you that there are a buncha folks in that county right now making sure their $75 is paid in full. 
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Snaggletiger

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Re: Thoughts on the Fire Dept Debate
« Reply #25 on: October 08, 2010, 10:44:39 AM »
Wow..just wow.  I hope I'm never in an emergency situation of any kind and have to rely on some of you.   I'll probably be dead before you finish making sure I'm a good law abiding  citizen who has handled all his responsibilities to your expectations.   
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My doctor told me I needed to stop masturbating.  I asked him why, and he said, "because I'm trying to examine you."

Saniflush

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Re: Thoughts on the Fire Dept Debate
« Reply #26 on: October 08, 2010, 10:48:33 AM »
Wow..just wow.  I hope I'm never in an emergency situation of any kind and have to rely on some of you.   I'll probably be dead before you finish making sure I'm a good law abiding  citizen who has handled all his responsibilities to your expectations.

We'll ask your wife whether or not to save you.
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"Hey my friends are the ones that wanted to eat at that shitty hole in the wall that only served bread and wine.  What kind of brick and mud business model is that.  Stick to the cart if that's all you're going to serve.  Then that dude came in with like 12 other people, and some of them weren't even wearing shoes, and the restaurant sat them right across from us. It was gross, and they were all stinky and dirty.  Then dude starts talking about eating his body and drinking his blood...I almost lost it.  That's the last supper I'll ever have there, and I hope he dies a horrible death."

Snaggletiger

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Re: Thoughts on the Fire Dept Debate
« Reply #27 on: October 08, 2010, 10:57:20 AM »
We'll ask your wife whether or not to save you.

Shit, I'm toast.
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My doctor told me I needed to stop masturbating.  I asked him why, and he said, "because I'm trying to examine you."

AUTiger1

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Re: Thoughts on the Fire Dept Debate
« Reply #28 on: October 08, 2010, 11:12:37 AM »
poop, I'm toast.

Nah, CCTAU will come to your rescue.
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Courage is only fear holding on a minute longer.--George S. Patton

There are gonna be days when you lay your guts on the line and you come away empty handed, there ain't a damn thing you can do about it but go back out there and lay em on the line again...and again, and again! -- Coach Pat Dye

It isn't that liberals are ignorant. It's just they know so much that isn't so. --Ronald Reagan

Tiger Wench

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Re: Thoughts on the Fire Dept Debate
« Reply #29 on: October 08, 2010, 12:40:43 PM »
Wow..just wow.  I hope I'm never in an emergency situation of any kind and have to rely on some of you.   I'll probably be dead before you finish making sure I'm a good law abiding  citizen who has handled all his responsibilities to your expectations.
I would save you, baby... but you would pay.  Oh, yes, you would pay...
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Re: Thoughts on the Fire Dept Debate
« Reply #30 on: October 08, 2010, 12:42:49 PM »
I would save you, baby... but you would pay.  Oh, yes, you would pay...

$75 bucks if I pay in advanced?
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Tiger Wench

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Re: Thoughts on the Fire Dept Debate
« Reply #31 on: October 08, 2010, 12:43:29 PM »
$75 bucks if I pay in advanced?
It would not be a cash transaction.
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Snaggletiger

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Re: Thoughts on the Fire Dept Debate
« Reply #32 on: October 08, 2010, 12:51:36 PM »
It would not be a cash transaction.

Help...Help....S.O.S......Heeeeeeelllp!!!!!!
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My doctor told me I needed to stop masturbating.  I asked him why, and he said, "because I'm trying to examine you."

Saniflush

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Re: Thoughts on the Fire Dept Debate
« Reply #33 on: October 08, 2010, 01:04:27 PM »
It would not be a cash transaction.

But cash is untraceable, whereas caning marks are more so.
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"Hey my friends are the ones that wanted to eat at that shitty hole in the wall that only served bread and wine.  What kind of brick and mud business model is that.  Stick to the cart if that's all you're going to serve.  Then that dude came in with like 12 other people, and some of them weren't even wearing shoes, and the restaurant sat them right across from us. It was gross, and they were all stinky and dirty.  Then dude starts talking about eating his body and drinking his blood...I almost lost it.  That's the last supper I'll ever have there, and I hope he dies a horrible death."

Tiger Wench

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Re: Thoughts on the Fire Dept Debate
« Reply #34 on: October 08, 2010, 01:13:04 PM »
But cash is untraceable, whereas caning marks are more so.
I don't leave marks where anyone can see them...
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Token

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Re: Thoughts on the Fire Dept Debate
« Reply #35 on: October 08, 2010, 05:55:24 PM »
If you want to debate the HUMMANITY of it, that is one thing.  Humans are ruled by their emotions.  From a human point of view, no way could I have stood there and watched that house burn without helping.  i cannot fathom why the firemen themselves would do that.

But if we are debating the unemotional basic circumstances, I still say that there have to be and should be consequences to people's choices and actions and inactions.  This is an extreme case with a tragic outcome - but the underlying idea is the same.  Until this country stops picking up the slack for people who CAN but DON'T, people will not be inclined to DO for themselves at all, knowing that Big Brother will take care of them, so why bother?

I guarantee you that there are a buncha folks in that county right now making sure their $75 is paid in full.

We agree on the unemotional basic circumstances.  And you'd have no complaint from me had the FD not responded to the call.  I live just outside the city limits so I don't expect our city FD to respond to my house when it's burning.  Instead, I'll get a group of neighbors who decided to volunteer their extra time to fight fires and help other people in need.  Maybe that's something those citizens in that rural area should consider.  Plenty of grant money available. 

I still stand by my comments though.  The FD was ALREADY there.  The fact they could stand there and not break policy by putting some water on that fire says a lot about their character.  I'm willing to bet that as much hell as we give people around here, very few of you would have stood there and watched that house burn.  Instead, you would have said "fuck the policy" and started putting water on that house.  All it takes is one to stand up.  The rest would have followed. 

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Token

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Re: Thoughts on the Fire Dept Debate
« Reply #36 on: October 08, 2010, 05:57:12 PM »
And now I'm the asshole for assuming the 15 posts after the one I just quoted would still be on topic. 
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Tiger Wench

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Re: Thoughts on the Fire Dept Debate
« Reply #37 on: October 09, 2010, 01:38:25 PM »
And now I'm the asshole for assuming the 15 posts after the one I just quoted would still be on topic.

That's fine - you and I can still debate.  It's not our fault that the rest of the crew has ADD...
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Tarheel

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Re: Thoughts on the Fire Dept Debate
« Reply #38 on: October 11, 2010, 05:58:01 PM »
Bunch of bleeding heart liberals ITT, token brings up somthing.  I woudl help a child in any circumstance, ANY circumstance.  Children don't know the   difference and can't help it that their folks don't abide by the rules and pay the fee.  but that would all that I would do. 

Where is Tarheel and what is his opinon  on this, I would be interested in heraing it?

I heard that someone missed me.

This is truly a catastrophe for this family and I do hate it for them.

But all emotion, conjecture, and supposition aside, the City of South Fulton Fire Dept. offers their service as a Value-Added benefit to rural, county residents of Obion County for a fee.  If you don't pay you don't get the service.  It's noted in one of the articles that this has been common practice for 20 years and it has worked fine.

However, my understanding is that a rural neighbor to the Cranick's house did pay and the City FD showed up to put out the fire at their home; it stands to reason that while they were there I would think they would be obligated to put the entire fire out including the Cranick's house; this would have been the responsible thing to do.  It follows that the Cranick's should have had to pay them for doing it.

To take it full-circle of course, actions have consequences; had they been responsible and paid the fee in the first place this mess would not have been a story for debate.
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GarMan

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Re: Thoughts on the Fire Dept Debate
« Reply #39 on: October 11, 2010, 11:05:14 PM »
I guess hindsight is not always 20/20.  Just something to consider...

What if a firefighter was hurt in the blaze after deciding to respond?  Knowing that the no-pay-no-service rule was known by everyone beforehand, who would pay for the firefighter's medical bills and disability?  The city/municipality insurance agreements may not cover injuries sustained in these circumstances.  At least from my perspective, that's enough of a reason to let the house burn. 

Of course, my thoughts are different if there's a chance that a person is requiring assistance in the burning home. 
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