So, The Defense...

[GH2001]

Exactly...its fall practice...and they are grueling. Anyone who has been through them knows this. You can have tired bodies and legs before a day's practice even starts fro previous days' physical activities. Go out and run 3-5 miles a day for 5 days straight days and on the morning of the 6th day, your ass will have tired legs before you even jog your first step. Same thing in a season - with our depth last year, these guys were worn down by mid/late season, even at the start of a game. Its easy to backseat drive this thing and pick apart everything we think the coaches aren't doing right but we were mighty thin everywhere last year. With the cupboard more stocked this year and even moreso next year - I expect improvement. If we dont get it, then yes, we have a valid complaint. Like JR said, even the most brilliant D minds can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit. 

[Snaggletiger]

Even chicken shit can be taught to wrap up a ball carrier.

All I'm saying is until they go out there and prove they've made the necessary changes on defense and stop people, I'm concerned about a very real problem and there is nothing to indicate it's going to be better.  We read that AGAIN, our D can't stop a good YMCA team and all I've heard is everything from depth, to injuries, to our offense is too good for them, leg weary, arm weary, diarrhea, herpes, gaut, girlfriend problems, boyfriend problems and that time of the month...

If they come out when the lights are on for real and show they can actually play some defense in this league, I'll be the first to say, Good job, you got your shit together.  But if you can honestly look at the situation from last year to now and continue throwing  at it, then you may wind up being in for a huge letdown this year.

 

[JR4AU]

Maybe it's just a coincidence the SAME barber cuts the hair of two guys whose cable went out last night.

Roof is the defensive coordinator. Chizik is the head coach at Auburn, and was at Iowa State. He was the DC at Auburn and Texas. Those defenses did well.

Sure, he may have some final say, but as far as defensive schemes and teaching fundamentals, that's not his job. When it was his job, he proved to do quite well at it. I know it's beyond comprehension for you as a bama fan since it is ingrained in you that Saban controls the offense, defense, strength & conditioning, the hiring of the basketball coach, the weather, the stock market, and the gravitational pull of the Earth's surface. But in reality, coordinators are hired for a reason.

No, the defense, and individual coaching isn't Chizik's job...but it's his job to see that the folks whose job it is, are doing it.  And he knows enough about defense to know if fundamentals are fucked up or not.  I assume that if we really can't tackle, he'd call Roof, Rocker, and Lolley and say "hey guys, what the fuck is up with that shit?  Do I need to fire your asses and hire someone that knows how to teach basic tackling skills?"

[JR4AU]

Even chicken shit can be taught to wrap up a ball carrier.

All I'm saying is until they go out there and prove they've made the necessary changes on defense and stop people, I'm concerned about a very real problem and there is nothing to indicate it's going to be better.  We read that AGAIN, our D can't stop a good YMCA team and all I've heard is everything from depth, to injuries, to our offense is too good for them, leg weary, arm weary, diarrhea, herpes, gaut, girlfriend problems, boyfriend problems and that time of the month...

If they come out when the lights are on for real and show they can actually play some defense in this league, I'll be the first to say, Good job, you got your shit together.  But if you can honestly look at the situation from last year to now and continue throwing  at it, then you may wind up being in for a huge letdown this year.

If they can't tackle again this yeark, I'll be in the "fire Roof" brigade too.  The biggest necessary changes are more players, and more "players". 

[AUChizad]

No, the defense, and individual coaching isn't Chizik's job...but it's his job to see that the folks whose job it is, are doing it.  And he knows enough about defense to know if fundamentals are fucked up or not.  I assume that if we really can't tackle, he'd call Roof, Rocker, and Lolley and say "hey guys, what the fuck is up with that shit?  Do I need to fire your asses and hire someone that knows how to teach basic tackling skills?"

I agree with this. Just saying (to RWS) that a MUCH better barometer of his defensive-guru-ness would be where he actually ran the defense, no where it was someone else's job to do it.

[Snaggletiger]

I agree with this. Just saying (to RWS) that a MUCH better barometer of his defensive-guru-ness would be where he actually ran the defense, no where it was someone else's job to do it.

The question of the extent of corching involvement always comes up for me when talking about this.  The fact that Tuberville came up through the ranks as a defensive guy always made you think he had some input, but I don't know how much he actually jumped in as far as actually hands on corching or if he just discussed strategy with Muschamp and Chizik etc.  Not once in any practice I ever went to was Tuberville doing any corching of any sort.  Hell, he was rarely there.  Maybe those who attended others had a different take.

However, everything I've seen of Chizik has been a very involved, hands-on approach.  Does Rhoads have a DC at ISU or did he take on those duties as well?  If he's stopping practice to go back to tackling 101, I imagine he's all up in dey bidnezz. 

[JR4AU]

The question of the extent of corching involvement always comes up for me when talking about this.  The fact that Tuberville came up through the ranks as a defensive guy always made you think he had some input, but I don't know how much he actually jumped in as far as actually hands on corching or if he just discussed strategy with Muschamp and Chizik etc.  Not once in any practice I ever went to was Tuberville doing any corching of any sort.  Hell, he was rarely there.  Maybe those who attended others had a different take.

However, everything I've seen of Chizik has been a very involved, hands-on approach.  Does Rhoads have a DC at ISU or did he take on those duties as well?  If he's stopping practice to go back to tackling 101, I imagine he's all up in dey bidnezz.

Wally Burnham is the DC at ISU.  Came from South Fl.  He's an old head, Samford (Howard) 1963, which means he would have played for Bobby Bowden there.  He's from Pell City AL.  Coached at places like South Carolina, and FSU under Bowden.   

[No Huddle]

TIFWIW When I was at Troy LB did not do much coaching. He let his assistants do the coaching. If he ever stopped practice to say something or something it normally meant trouble. I know the Saban is always coaching and involved but it could be because he is a control freak. Also it looks like we lost Alfy Hill to academic reasons. Something the clearinghouse just found from his high school that was not right.

[No Huddle]

Wally Burnham is the DC at ISU.  Came from South Fl.  He's an old head, Samford (Howard) 1963, which means he would have played for Bobby Bowden there.  He's from Pell City AL.  Coached at places like South Carolina, and FSU under Bowden.   

Well I can tell you who got Cheesit his coaching break.

[JR4AU]

Well I can tell you who got Cheesit his coaching break.

Danny Ford

[RWS]

Snaggle...what you saw was a defense that was leg weary and tired.  Nobody in the video posted earlier in this thread made any attempt at a big hit...they stood straight up and tried to arm tackle.  A sure sign of fatique...or just spin...up to you how to take it. 

Maybe bammer's corches have forgot how to coach defense suddenly too...

http://www.tidesports.com/article/20100817/NEWS/100819672/1011?Title=Members-of-the-UA-football-team-hold-a-players-only-meeting

As I said yesterday from the report my buddy gave me from Tuscaloser...they haven't been tackling full speed in camp because they're young, and these guys on bammer team are not yet used to the rigorous workouts...they're tired, and that leads to poor tackling every single time.

Saban has never allowed full tackling in practices. I think that even goes back to his time at LSU. Ever since he came to Alabama, they thud. They do allow tackling during the scrimmages, which there have only been 2 so far. You're probably right that they are having a hard time adjusting to the workouts and that they're tired. Especially with all of the underclassmen we have. Half of the scholarship players on roster are true or redshirt freshmen. Replacing 9 guys on defense doesn't help either. But to say all of that combined has caused the team to tackle poorly in camp is just inaccurate, due to the fact that they never really tackle anyway.

[JR4AU]

Saban has never allowed full tackling in practices. I think that even goes back to his time at LSU. Ever since he came to Alabama, they thud. They do allow tackling during the scrimmages, which there have only been 2 so far. You're probably right that they are having a hard time adjusting to the workouts and that they're tired. Especially with all of the underclassmen we have. Half of the scholarship players on roster are true or redshirt freshmen. Replacing 9 guys on defense doesn't help either. But to say all of that combined has caused the team to tackle poorly in camp is just inaccurate, due to the fact that they never really tackle anyway.

So, Saban forgot how to coach them?  That's what you're saying?

[RWS]

So, Saban forgot how to coach them?  That's what you're saying?

Yes, he forgot how to coach tackling. That's why the team has used the thud technique the past 3 years. And he is getting old, so maybe he did forget coaching since January. I know the line you're trying to draw, but the two situations are different. I think Alabama proved last year that the coaches are coaching the right shit. So, if we are having an issue this year, it can be logical to say "Well, we just replaced 9 senior starters with underclassmen. Maybe that's the problem." It's not an automatic blame the coaching type of thing. We've seen what our coaches can do at Alabama, and for the most part know what to expect.

Look, it could be everything, or it could be nothing. It is still Fall camp. Bad tackling plagued ISU. Same last year at AU. We will have to see about this year. All I'm saying is there is a pattern there. Not saying Chizik is the worst coach in the world, just offering a differing opinion on the whole kill Roof theory.

[JR4AU]

Yes, he forgot how to coach tackling. That's why the team has used the thud technique the past 3 years. And he is getting old, so maybe he did forget coaching since January. I know the line you're trying to draw, but the two situations are different. I think Alabama proved last year that the coaches are coaching the right shit. So, if we are having an issue this year, it can be logical to say "Well, we just replaced 9 senior starters with underclassmen. Maybe that's the problem." It's not an automatic blame the coaching type of thing. We've seen what our coaches can do at Alabama, and for the most part know what to expect.

Look, it could be everything, or it could be nothing. It is still Fall camp. Bad tackling plagued ISU. Same last year at AU. We will have to see about this year. All I'm saying is there is a pattern there. Not saying Chizik is the worst coach in the world, just offering a differing opinion on the whole kill Roof theory.

I know, I know...it's always different when it's Saban and Alabama.  Espeically whey they've proved they can coach, when the players don't do it, it's the player's fault not the coach's fault.  Those coaches have proved they can coach, and recently!  OTOH, Chizik proved he could coach tackling, but it's been a while since then, and maybe he really has forgotten how to do it.

[Snaggletiger]

I'm going up Saturday for 9:30 practice, 11:30 Low Country Boil, 12:30 beers.

I'll let you know if we're tackling or thudding.  Somebody tell my computerly impaired ass how to put pics on this site cause' I plan on taking a lot of them.

Pic #1 shows Neiko Torched getting beat by 7 yards for a score.

Pic #2 shows Desmond Washington throwing a mean form body block tackle...attempt on Michael Dyer.

Pic #3 shows Ziemba coming out of the locker room at 9:25. 

[War Eagle!!!]

I'm going up Saturday for 9:30 practice, 11:30 Low Country Boil, 12:30 beers.

I'll let you know if we're tackling or thudding.  Somebody tell my computerly impaired ass how to put pics on this site cause' I plan on taking a lot of them.

Pic #1 shows Neiko Torched getting beat by 7 yards for a score.

Pic #2 shows Desmond Washington throwing a mean form body block tackle...attempt on Michael Dyer.

Pic #3 shows Ziemba coming out of the locker room at 9:25.

I am glad that Ziemba is coming out early for extra wo...

wait...you were saying...I get it...hahahaha

[RWS]

I know, I know...it's always different when it's Saban and Alabama.  Espeically whey they've proved they can coach, when the players don't do it, it's the player's fault not the coach's fault.  Those coaches have proved they can coach, and recently!  OTOH, Chizik proved he could coach tackling, but it's been a while since then, and maybe he really has forgotten how to do it.

Just like how it's always different when it's AU and Chizik........right?

[JR4AU]

Just like how it's always different when it's AU and Chizik........right?

You can re-read my posts and see if my defense is a blind defense of Chizik, or merely a learned opinion.   

[Buzz Killington]

I'm going up Saturday for 9:30 practice, 11:30 Low Country Boil, 12:30 beers.

I'll let you know if we're tackling or thudding.  Somebody tell my computerly impaired ass how to put pics on this site cause' I plan on taking a lot of them.

Pic #1 shows Neiko Torched getting beat by 7 yards for a score.

Pic #2 shows Desmond Washington throwing a mean form body block tackle...attempt on Michael Dyer.

Pic #3 shows Ziemba coming out of the locker room at 9:25.

Tell Coarch Chizik I said hey and I'm sorry I couldn't make it this year for the skrimps. 

[Snaggletiger]

Tell Coarch Chizik I said hey and I'm sorry I couldn't make it this year for the skrimps.

Yeah, I knew you were giving this up for a weekend of drinking, golfing and debauchery with numerous miscreant X'rs.  And you call yourself and Auburn man. 

Wait, what time are you guys playing?