Pac-10 expanding?

[Ogre]

Word on da skreets (Rivals, in my case) is the PAC-10 is about to formally invite Texas, Texas A&M, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State and Colorado to join the conference.

The Texas Rivals site has a story up on thier front page:

Link

Discuss.

[Snaggletiger]

Texas schools make no F'n sense.  Neither does Colorado or OU. 

They should get Utah, Fresno, BYU and Boise...and shut the fuck up.

[JR4AU]

Texas schools make no F'n sense.  Neither does Colorado or OU. 

They should get Utah, Fresno, BYU and Boise...and shut the fuck up.

Don't know how it will shake out...but the shit is fixin' to hit the fan on this expansion crap.  It's gonna happen, or so it seems.  You can bet that the SEC won't miss out on any money making deals.  I'll be curious to see how it shakes out.

[Snaggletiger]

Texas seems to be on everyone's hit list.  And rightfully so.  My problem is the expansion causing it to get totally away from the regional aspect of the conferences.  I still think that so much of the attraction of college football stems from the traditions that arise not only from the colleges themselves, but from different areas of the country.  Anyone recall the article written several years back by the Syracuse writer after his visit to Teh Planes for the game?  One of the best I've ever read and in a nutshell it said, "They get it....we don't".   

[djsimp]

Word on da skreets (Rivals, in my case) is the PAC-10 is about to formally invite Texas, Texas A&M, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State and Colorado to join the conference.

The Texas Rivals site has a story up on thier front page:

Link

Discuss.

The Pac 10 must be pretty confident. There is no way any of these schools leave the comfort of their home to go Pacific. I agree; Utah, Fresno, BYU and Boise is the best they can do.

[JR4AU]

Texas seems to be on everyone's hit list.  And rightfully so.  My problem is the expansion causing it to get totally away from the regional aspect of the conferences.  I still think that so much of the attraction of college football stems from the traditions that arise not only from the colleges themselves, but from different areas of the country.  Anyone recall the article written several years back by the Syracuse writer after his visit to Teh Planes for the game?  One of the best I've ever read and in a nutshell it said, "They get it....we don't".   

The Big XII is ripe for picking...it's not a long standing conference.  Several long standing rivarlies that can be preserved whereever they elect to go...if they go...but the Big XII hasn't been around that long.  They'll likely be the conference that is the first to break up.

[Pell City Tiger]

We (the SEC) will wind up raiding the ACC if this happens. Va Tech, Clemson, UNC, FSU, Miami, & Ga Tech.

It came to me in a dream.

[Jumbo]

We (the SEC) will wind up raiding the ACC if this happens. Va Tech, Clemson, UNC, FSU, Miami, & Ga Tech.

It came to me in a dream.

Dream Weaver....

[djsimp]

We (the SEC) will wind up raiding the ACC if this happens. Va Tech, Clemson, UNC, FSU, Miami, & Ga Tech.

It came to me in a dream.

FSU and GA Tech makes the most sense to me but I agree.

[BZ770]

The only reasoning I could see with the Texas Tam to Pac 10 is that they'd be the shit of the league. 

[AUChizad]

Texas seems to be on everyone's hit list.  And rightfully so.  My problem is the expansion causing it to get totally away from the regional aspect of the conferences.  I still think that so much of the attraction of college football stems from the traditions that arise not only from the colleges themselves, but from different areas of the country.  Anyone recall the article written several years back by the Syracuse writer after his visit to Teh Planes for the game?  One of the best I've ever read and in a nutshell it said, "They get it....we don't".   

This is true, but as PCT pointed out, they will likely raid the southern part of the ACC. It may be true of other conferences, but fuck them, who cares. It's just another reason to laugh at them for misrepresentation, much like the Big Televen.

However, we would have to add all Eastern Teams. This would fuck up the whole structure of the SEC, division-wise, which I think is one of the few institutions in college football, that's pretty damn near perfect. Playing all teams from your respective division, rotating two from the other division in and out of your schedule every year, and having one inter-division rival is a pretty perfect system. Even moreso are those inter-division rivalries, that are pretty evenly matched for the most part. AU & UGA, LSU & UF, uat & UT, UA & SC (the n00bs), OM & Vandy, MSU & UK. The teams, and even the fans of those schools in each pair are very similar.

Throw in, say, 4 teams in the east. You'd have to move two teams over to the west, (Probably Vandy, and maybe UK or UT?) And worse, you'd probably only get to play one team from the other division a year. Would they rotate the one every year? If so, does that mean the oldest rivalry in the south (AU-UGA) ceases to exist? No more Third Saturday in October for the hillbillies & mullets? The only alternative would be to keep the inter-divisional rivalry. Then what? Never play any team from the other division, unless you meet them for the championship? This also fucks things up because no teams from either division will have common opponents with any team from the other division.

Bottom line. I'm not an advocate.

[djsimp]

Bottom line. I'm not an advocate.

That was a well thought out post Chizad. I actually haven't really thought about it that way and now that I am, I am not so sure I like the idea either. I guess if I was to have my say, I would at least add to both divisions to keep the thing more equal. Say we added, Ga Tech or FSU to the mix. I would then look at Texas or Texas aTm to the West. This may be sort of a stretch geographically but it would finally give Ark a real rivalry in the SEC.

[AUChizad]

http://blog.al.com/tigerscorner/2010/05/sec_expansion_from_auburns_per.html

SEC Expansion from Auburn's perspective
By Charlie Roberts
May 19, 2010, 3:01PM
In the deadest period of the college football year, the only real news on the table remains the possibility of Big 10 expansion and how the rest of the country will react.

Make no mistake, the SEC will respond. When the next wave of conference realignment and expansion hits, the SEC will be a part of it. The question is, how will that benefit the average football fan?

One thing that a lot of Auburn fans complained about (rightly, in my view) during the first round of SEC expansion was that it risked some of the Tigers' traditional rivalries. Auburn lost its yearly game with Tennessee in 1992, when the conference went to a 5-2-1 format (playing five games against divisional rivals, two games against the same two inter-divisional teams, and one rotating game against the rest of the opposite division).

Auburn's two divisional rivals were Georgia and Florida, two of the SEC's best programs. Switching to a 5-1-2 format, with only a single fixed divisional game, balanced out schedule difficulties. But it also meant that Auburn lost another yearly game against a traditional rival, this time Florida.

Losing these rivalries hurt. Even all these years after the divisional split, Auburn has still played Florida more times than any other current SEC team except for Georgia and Mississippi State. The Tigers have played Tennessee more than any but those three and Alabama. The now-annual rivalry with LSU, it is true, has become one of the best series in the nation. That doesn't meant Auburn didn't lose something important when the conference expanded.

But now, talk of conference expansion is an opportunity for Auburn. What if the SEC were to bring in some of Auburn's traditional non-conference rivals? There are lots of possibilities that I am sure that the SEC is considering (teams like Texas, Texas A&M, Miami, or Virginia Tech). But looking at the possibilities of SEC expansion from an Auburn perspective, here's who I'd like to see get invited to the conference.

Georgia Tech: The Yellow Jackets are the big one. Georgia Tech is still Auburn's second-most played opponent after the University of Georgia. Some of Auburn's most colorful and enjoyable traditions involve Georgia Tech, like the Wreck Tech Pajama Parade, which is exactly what it sounds like: students have a parade, in their pajamas.

From an SEC perspective, Georgia Tech has some pluses and minuses. They're a natural fit for the conference -- competitive in football and basketball, but not so much as to upset the balance of things. They would certainly improve the conference's academic profile. And Georgia Tech already has some natural rivalries in the SEC; obviously, there's Georgia, but Tech also has a history with Tennessee and Alabama.

Does Georgia Tech have much of a shot at getting an invitation, should the SEC expand? I've got to assume, probably not. From the perspective of the SEC decision-makers, Georgia Tech doesn't add much. It doesn't have the huge alumni base of schools like Florida. With the University of Georgia (and, to a lesser extent, Auburn and Tennessee), the SEC already commands the lion's share of interest in the state, even in Atlanta. And while Georgia Tech has a long and storied tradition, it doesn't have enough to make that alone reason to grab Tech.

Tech brings everything in terms of academics and athletics. They probably don't bring enough in terms of viewership and increased revenue to justify an invitation, no matter how much SEC fans would like it.

Clemson: If Georgia Tech is a good fit for the SEC, Clemson is perfect. In fact, why aren't they already an SEC team? They've got the right size, academic profile, athletic achievement and campus personality.

From an Auburn fan's perspective, Clemson would be a perfect fit. Auburn has played Clemson 46 times in the past, more often than LSU, Arkansas, or Ole Miss. Clemson's not as close a drive to Auburn as is Georgia Tech, but it's a shorter drive than from Auburn to Oxford, Baton Rouge, Starkville, or Knoxville.

But if the advantages that Clemson brings to the SEC are similar to those of Georgia Tech, so are the disadvantages. The Tigers might have a big fan base, but Clemson doesn't add a new TV market. They don't add enormous new revenues. Despite being almost perfect for the conference from a fan's perspective, the accountants and the marketers would probably ensure that Clemson won't get an SEC invite.*

Florida State: Auburn doesn't have a terribly long connection with Florida States. The Seminoles and Tigers have only played 18 times (which is still only one less than Auburn-Arkansas). But in the 1980s, Florida State was practically a conference regular -- Auburn played the Seminoles every season but one between 1983 and 1990, and in general they were some exciting games. Tallahassee is closer to Auburn than all but two current SEC schools.

From the SEC's perspective, we might be talking. While Florida State isn't the powerhouse they were in the 1990s, there's no doubt that they can be. They match almost perfectly the SEC's academic, social, and athletic mold. And, if the SEC takes FSU in a combination move with, say, some of Clemson, Georgia Tech, Virginia Tech, and/or Miami, their biggest rival (the ACC) would be long-term mangled as a competitive football conference and might move into Big East/basketball conference territory.

But once again, we have a contender who misses out on the TV exposure test. Florida State would probably help the SEC get eyeballs in Florida, by far the biggest state with a conference school. But not that much -- the SEC already has the University of Florida. And Florida State is by no means the second biggest college in Florida; both Central Florida and South Florida actually have a bigger overall enrollment.

Florida State is closer to a realistic possibility than is Clemson or Georgia Tech, but I'm still afraid that they wouldn't be among the SEC's first set of choices for expansion.

Other possibilities: Auburn's other big non-conference series are pretty much no-gos. Auburn has played 37 games against Tulane, and it was a good series (Tulane actually has a winning record against Auburn). But the Green Wave left the SEC for a reason; they haven't regularly been an important football team since the Roosevelts were a political dynasty.

The Tigers' 22-game series with Southern Miss hasn't exactly been competitive. It's not even really accurate to say it was ever a rivalry, unlike the historic (in the sense of very old) rivalry with Tulane. And there are literally fewer than ten 1-A teams in the entire country that would add less to the SEC's profile than would USM.

Concluding: More generally, if the SEC honchos are thinking in terms of adding Texas and Oklahoma, or something like that, I have to ask just how much harder they want this conference to be. Florida, LSU, and Alabama are all recent national title winners; Auburn went undefeated just a few years ago; Tennessee and Georgia are traditionally excellent teams with enormous resources, both of whom have been in the hunt for a national title at least once in the last decade.

That's already six teams with "among the all-time greats" type histories. The current talk is of adding two or four more teams in that same caliber. How much tougher do we want this? Do we really want the winner of, say, Auburn-Texas or Oklahoma-Alabama playing the winner of Miami-Florida or Virginia Tech-Tennessee, just for a conference title?

Anyway: From a purely Auburn perspective, then, expansion doesn't have much to recommend itself. Adding Georgia Tech and Clemson in the East, and Florida State and some other balanced school (Louisville? Good for basketball, if not much of an Auburn rival.) in the West might be the best Auburn fans could hope for, but I don't know how much chance that has of actually happening.

[chinook]

Texas schools make no F'n sense.  Neither does Colorado or OU.  

They should get Utah, Fresno, BYU and Boise...and shut the fuck up.

i agree...the texas schools do not make sense but again they do make $en$e.

if you look at boise state, fresno state, utah and byu...those schools for the most part (w/ byu the closest but they are mormons) do not parallel the pac-10 schools academically or athletically (they are not the complete package). as an example boise state doesn't have a baseball team (they do have a club).  i guess the argument could be said about u of o before this year regarding baseball but that's a different story for a different day.  those 4 teams do not have the market, fan base and full-steam capabilities to bring in the green back.

also, it has something to do with tv.  how many of you east coast guys watch ncaa basketball (west coast teams) at 10:30 p.m.?  probably not many of you.  

if the pac 10 can bring a few teams, like a&m and colorado, they can bring the $, tv market (earlier start times) and whatever else they can drum up.

my position is keep the pac 10 the pac 10.  

[BZ770]

Looks like Big 12 has given Nebraska and Missouri ultimatum by Friday at 5pm to let them know if they are looking at leaving.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=5257088

[jmar]

There seems to be some residual leaks from the NCAA's investigation of USC. The latest is the claim that a former NFL coach (Rodriguez) actually performed coaching duties which Pete Carroll says is after the fact and that they used several NFL coaches in the past in similar capacities incl. A. Gibbs.

Could the NCAA realize its weakening stance amid the super conference discussion? Can the talk of such alliances have some sort of bearing in it's findings against USC? Could these findings actually injure the Pac-10 discussions with the Texas 4, Colorado and Oklahoma?

Texas and USC  tend to belong together in terms of overall ego.

Texas Reformatory College could get a Pac 10 invite as long as the Univ. of Texas was the prize.

Notre Dame (the other prize) can just wait out the storm while all the others jockey for position.

I do not think Missouri and Nebraska are the bad guys here.   

[Hogwally]

     If the SEC adds teams, my guess (and it is only a guess) would be they add Tex A&M and Virginia Tech.  Solid programs that will bring in the TV markets.  I don't think Texas will bargain for the SEC.  IMO they will either go to the Pac-10 or try to keep the Big12 together by starting some type of TV network similar to the Big10's.

[jmar]

    If the SEC adds teams, my guess (and it is only a guess) would be they add Tex A&M and Virginia Tech.  Solid programs that will bring in the TV markets.  I don't think Texas will bargain for the SEC.  IMO they will either go to the Pac-10 or try to keep the Big12 together by starting some type of TV network similar to the Big10's.

The problem here is that Texas is a package deal (politically) and Fox already has the Big 10 market(#1) and offers the Pac 10 a like revenue deal. (20M per?) The SEC has been silent except for Slive's opening remarks about expansion.

[ssgaufan]

Texas politicians are wanting to replace Colorado with Baylor.  So yeah, to get Texas you have to sleep with her ugly friend.

[jmar]

Texas politicians are wanting to replace Colorado with Baylor.  So yeah, to get Texas you have to sleep with her ugly friend.

How ugly?

True, but I do like Hogwally's entry on Va Tech being added , maybe paired with FSU if it has to happen. I'm not to keen on south FL in general. The elitist thing in the ACC would probably prevent a full scale merger.

Question then would be, if ie. Va Tech and FSU are added to the SEC or a possible combo of say 4, which eastern division team(s) move west?

The rivalry aspect clutters things from our perspective but money is the issue.  TRADITIONS not so much!

Hey I love baseball, but it doesn't bring in much revenue. If it did I would say lock down the rest of Florida and grab Clemson.

Baylor to the Pac 10 seems as strange to me as NC State to the SEC.

How far can the SEC go before it starts diluting an already powerhouse conference?

 Anyway, FOR A FUN AND INSIGHTFUL READ CHECK OUT si.coms Andy Staples, "Time for Full-blown Conference Realignment" article.