Dave Matthews... I tried, but.....

[Vandy Vol]

This is how you really bring the fucking house down:

[War Eagle!!!]

That's how it's done. 

In 20 years...the shit sounds the exact same. Down to the distortion of the guitars, hand movements and the way they play to the crowd, its all the same. What's the point of listening to the same shit over and over again? If you go to one concert, you have been to them all...

1995


1999


Look above for the 2009 version...

[Kaos]

In 20 years...the shit sounds the exact same. Down to the distortion of the guitars, hand movements and the way they play to the crowd, its all the same. What's the point of listening to the same shit over and over again? If you go to one concert, you have been to them all...

 

Fuck that.  I know Ace's solos by heart.  Miss one bent note and I'm going to notice.  It's the consistency and familiarity that I like.   If he played it different every time I'd fucking HATE it. 

[Thrilla]

Holy Shiznit, WE!!! thanks for posting that from 1995.  Friggin' awesome flashback...he's definitely got fat and happy and fine tuned his sound (but most of that is probably due to advancement in music equipment technology)

[Kaos]

Tell you what.  The day that Dave has a band of midget impersonaters?  We can talk.  Until then, Dave is back burner. 

[Thrilla]

Tell you what.  The day that Dave has a band of midget impersonaters?  We can talk.  Until then, Dave is back burner. 

As much as I like Dave and just think that KISS is OK...you make a very strong point here. 

[Buzz Killington]

As much as I like Dave and just think that KISS is OK...you make a very strong point here. 

With a KISSSSSSSSS of cherry.

[jadennis]

Tell you what.  The day that Dave has a band of midget impersonaters?  We can talk.  Until then, Dave is back burner. 

 

Not sure how the discussion got to this....but you win....no question.

K, one reason I referenced DMB's old stuff was that I know you do have a well rounded musical library.  I thought for sure you would like some of his older stuff.  Maybe you should listen through a few times, try different stuff, etc.  It's hard for me to imagine that you like the stuff you like, but wouldn't find quality in a lot of the DMB stuff. 

Get at least 5 1/2 minutes into this before stopping it.  Boyd Tinsley (the violinist) plays his violin like a guitar....they're creative, I think you'll appreciate it.  Check from 7:15 to 8:15 too to catch drummer Carter Beauford having fun.


This song is one of my favorites of his.  Great music, well written words I think too...give it 5 1/2 minutes too (preferably 8 1/2 plus).



Here is a good cover of an old Johnny Cash song, Long Black Veil. (no video, the sound is taken from the live DVD Listener Supported).  Great, great song.  Again, give it 5 minutes.

[Kaos]

It's just not my thing.  People sitting around riffing and skippledy-bee-boo never impressed me at all.  

When I hear a band I like I want to hear the music they perform in the way that I enjoy it.  

I know how the guitar solos sound in Welcome to the Jungle, Paradise City, Sweet Child of Mine and November Rain. As much as I respect Slash's ability, I don't want to hear him boodely-boo-beeping up and down the frets and changing that up.  

Same with Van Halen.  Same with Pink Floyd. Same with Boston. Same with Styx, Journey, Prince, etc.  When I go see Snoop, I know the words and the beat. That's what I want to hear, not a bunch of self-indulgent riffing.

Same with The Eagles.  When they do Hotel California, I have every piece of the end memorized.  Why fuck with it?  

What Dave Matthews does is, to me, the absolute height of arrogance.  It's HIM having fun doodling around.  Fuck him.  

It just doesn't reach me.  

[wesfau2]

Dave served his purpose in the mid-90's:  He got college girls to drop their panties.  I attended a few shows for just that purpose.

Somewhere along the line, he started putting out the same...fucking...album over and over.

The first one or two albums were listenable, but his lazy songwriting and douchebag audience torpedoed any lasting appeal.

[jadennis]

It's just not my thing.  People sitting around riffing and skippledy-bee-boo never impressed me at all.  

When I hear a band I like I want to hear the music they perform in the way that I enjoy it.  

I know how the guitar solos sound in Welcome to the Jungle, Paradise City, Sweet Child of Mine and November Rain. As much as I respect Slash's ability, I don't want to hear him boodely-boo-beeping up and down the frets and changing that up.  

Same with Van Halen.  Same with Pink Floyd. Same with Boston. Same with Styx, Journey, Prince, etc.  When I go see Snoop, I know the words and the beat. That's what I want to hear, not a bunch of self-indulgent riffing.

Same with The Eagles.  When they do Hotel California, I have every piece of the end memorized.  Why phuk with it?  

What Dave Matthews does is, to me, the absolute height of arrogance.  It's HIM having fun doodling around.  phuk him.  

It just doesn't reach me.  

I can get all that.  But one interesting thing....once you know the music down to the tiniest note, like you mention, you never feel lost in a live Dave Matthews song....even if it's a 10 minute version of a 6 minute song.   You just never feel like "what the hell is this?"...it somehow seems like just more of the same and your brain just anticipates and goes with it as if you've heard it before.

So, maybe his actual album work would make more sense to you.

To change it completely up, I came across this on YouTube.  It's an instrumental (shown here in a tribute to their sax player that died recently).  I used to fall asleep to this 15 years ago.

[Vandy Vol]

It's just not my thing.  People sitting around riffing and skippledy-bee-boo never impressed me at all. 

When I hear a band I like I want to hear the music they perform in the way that I enjoy it. 

I know how the guitar solos sound in Welcome to the Jungle, Paradise City, Sweet Child of Mine and November Rain. As much as I respect Slash's ability, I don't want to hear him boodely-boo-beeping up and down the frets and changing that up. 

Same with Van Halen.  Same with Pink Floyd. Same with Boston. Same with Styx, Journey, Prince, etc.  When I go see Snoop, I know the words and the beat. That's what I want to hear, not a bunch of self-indulgent riffing.

Same with The Eagles.  When they do Hotel California, I have every piece of the end memorized.  Why fuck with it? 

What Dave Matthews does is, to me, the absolute height of arrogance.  It's HIM having fun doodling around.  Fuck him.   

It just doesn't reach me. 

I agree to some degree.  Bands like Phish and Widespread Panic annoy the shit out of me with their endless jamming.  They play for so long that it completely changes the song.  I'm not a huge fan of instrumentals either, so when you just fucking jam for that long, the song loses its original identity and becomes some impromptu instrumental that is played in the same key as the original song.

That doesn't mean that I don't like jamming or riffing at all.  Most guitar solos developed from the guitarist "boodely-boo-beeping" on the guitar, and it just became the version they used on the album when they recorded.  And, by their very nature, guitar solos deviate from the chorus and verses of the song so as to provide a different sound, often during a bridge.  However, it doesn't do so to such a degree that the song loses its identity and is unrecognizable or unenjoyable.

I'm not a huge fan of Dave Matthews, but I also don't view him like I do Phish and Widespread Panic.  As jadennis stated, I'm never left wondering what the fuck song Dave Matthews is playing.  The "boodely-boo-beeping" is similar enough (and short enough) that I know it's the same song and can still appreciate the sound of that song.

I view it this way:  You like the solo in Welcome to the Jungle and know what to expect from it.  You like it because you've heard it before, and thus know it and know that you like it.  If you go to a live concert and they decide to change it up, you won't know whether you like it or not until you've heard it.  Their live solo could be completely different and twice as long, but you can't state that you don't like it until you've heard it.

That's how I view live music at concerts.  The band gets bored with playing the same thing over and over for years, and they want to change it up.  Sure, I came to the show because I liked the band and what I know about them.  But just as with every new band or new song that comes out, I won't know whether I like it until I've heard it.  Hearing something new due to a band changing things up doesn't bother me; it's when they completely fucking lose me in non-stop instrumental shit for 10 minutes that I get bored.

[Kaos]

I agree to some degree.  Bands like Phish and Widespread Panic annoy the shit out of me with their endless jamming.  They play for so long that it completely changes the song.  I'm not a huge fan of instrumentals either, so when you just fucking jam for that long, the song loses its original identity and becomes some impromptu instrumental that is played in the same key as the original song.

That doesn't mean that I don't like jamming or riffing at all.  Most guitar solos developed from the guitarist "boodely-boo-beeping" on the guitar, and it just became the version they used on the album when they recorded.  And, by their very nature, guitar solos deviate from the chorus and verses of the song so as to provide a different sound, often during a bridge.  However, it doesn't do so to such a degree that the song loses its identity and is unrecognizable or unenjoyable.

I'm not a huge fan of Dave Matthews, but I also don't view him like I do Phish and Widespread Panic.  As jadennis stated, I'm never left wondering what the fuck song Dave Matthews is playing.  The "boodely-boo-beeping" is similar enough (and short enough) that I know it's the same song and can still appreciate the sound of that song.

I view it this way:  You like the solo in Welcome to the Jungle and know what to expect from it.  You like it because you've heard it before, and thus know it and know that you like it.  If you go to a live concert and they decide to change it up, you won't know whether you like it or not until you've heard it.  Their live solo could be completely different and twice as long, but you can't state that you don't like it until you've heard it.

That's how I view live music at concerts.  The band gets bored with playing the same thing over and over for years, and they want to change it up.  Sure, I came to the show because I liked the band and what I know about them.  But just as with every new band or new song that comes out, I won't know whether I like it until I've heard it.  Hearing something new due to a band changing things up doesn't bother me; it's when they completely fucking lose me in non-stop instrumental shit for 10 minutes that I get bored.

I'm good with all of this.  I'd prefer not to hear a different version of Welcome to the Jungle, because I liked WttJ enough to come see the band. Them indulging in their own desires by changing it up is unlikely to be met with gratitude. I won't boo them off the stage for it, though. 

I will say that KISS fans are likely to riot if Tommy Thayer misses a single warped chord of an Ace solo.  Not only that, but he has to pretty much nail the movements, too.  It has to be an exact duplicate or he's getting shit from the hardcore fans.  Bruce Kulick didn't get that kind of scrutiny and brought a different sound to some of the songs, but he wasn't painted like Ace.  That changes the dynamic.

[jadennis]

I'm good with all of this.  I'd prefer not to hear a different version of Welcome to the Jungle, because I liked WttJ enough to come see the band. Them indulging in their own desires by changing it up is unlikely to be met with gratitude. I won't boo them off the stage for it, though. 

I will say that KISS fans are likely to riot if Tommy Thayer misses a single warped chord of an Ace solo.  Not only that, but he has to pretty much nail the movements, too.  It has to be an exact duplicate or he's getting poop from the hardcore fans.  Bruce Kulick didn't get that kind of scrutiny and brought a different sound to some of the songs, but he wasn't painted like Ace.  That changes the dynamic.

Good points ....Kaos, to me, if a band is going to play exactly the same thing, note for note, every song they play....why even go?  Just listen to the CD.  Now I know, that's like saying why bother to go to a game when you can watch it on TV.  So I don't mean that literally.  But that's kind of why I like that some bands mix it up a least some on some songs.  Lenny Kravitz was good at this.  Some songs...by the book.  Some songs, mixed it up some.  Pearl Jam was this way too (except in the early 90s when they were so drugged up that every song was an adventure, whether they meant for it to be that way or not).

Also...they are the one's that wrote the song and the music...they aren't exactly being disrespectful to it or arrogant if they like to play if differently.  I wouldn't expect a cover band to get creative, it wasn't their creativity that produced the song to begin with.  But if someone wants to expand on their own music, who are we to call them out on it?

For the record, I saw Dave Matthews 11 times, but all from 1993 to 1996 or 97.  Somewhere shortly after that they did lose something.

[Kaos]

Good points ....Kaos, to me, if a band is going to play exactly the same thing, note for note, every song they play....why even go?  Just listen to the CD.  Now I know, that's like saying why bother to go to a game when you can watch it on TV.  So I don't mean that literally.  But that's kind of why I like that some bands mix it up a least some on some songs.  Lenny Kravitz was good at this.  Some songs...by the book.  Some songs, mixed it up some.  Pearl Jam was this way too (except in the early 90s when they were so drugged up that every song was an adventure, whether they meant for it to be that way or not).

Also...they are the one's that wrote the song and the music...they aren't exactly being disrespectful to it or arrogant if they like to play if differently.  I wouldn't expect a cover band to get creative, it wasn't their creativity that produced the song to begin with.  But if someone wants to expand on their own music, who are we to call them out on it?

For the record, I saw Dave Matthews 11 times, but all from 1993 to 1996 or 97.  Somewhere shortly after that they did lose something.

Does shit blow up when you listen to the CD?  Can you see somebody fly to the rafters and vomit blood on you from a CD?  Can you listen to the CD and feel the heat of the flames as they roar along to the music?  Can you scream as loud as you want while rockets shoot out of a burning guitar?  Can a CD throw you guitar picks?  Rain confetti on your head?  Will a CD pour smoke out of it?  Shoot lasers? 

It's visual.  I go to hear the music, yeah, but I go to SEE the music, too.  Earth Wind & Fire with their 800 horns used to put on a fantastic visual show.  Loved it.  The white sparkly space suits... awesome.

KISS does mix it up.  Some solos are longer live than on the CD.  There are drum solos added live that aren't on the CD.  (But if you've listened to live CDs you know what's coming when usually). 

I go to be entertained.  En-ter-tain-ed.  Some doofus skibbledy-scoo-booing isn't my idea of entertainment. 

[Vandy Vol]

Does shit blow up when you listen to the CD?  Can you see somebody fly to the rafters and vomit blood on you from a CD?  Can you listen to the CD and feel the heat of the flames as they roar along to the music?  Can you scream as loud as you want while rockets shoot out of a burning guitar?  Can a CD throw you guitar picks?  Rain confetti on your head?  Will a CD pour smoke out of it?  Shoot lasers?

I might have an erection...

[AUTiger1]

You do realize that no matter how much you talk him up or show youtube clips, that Kaos will never like DMB?  Just not his style. 

Oh, and Kaos is right.  You ain't shit and haven't hit the big time until you have bunch of midgets impersonating you.  For me that was the end of discussion.

[Kaos]

You do realize that no matter how much you talk him up or show youtube clips, that Kaos will never like DMB?  Just not his style. 

I won't even watch the clips.  I heard the guy when he first came out, tried it again a couple of years later and it just doesn't work for me. 

I simply don't like it. 

Don't like tomatoes or lettuce on my sandwich either.  Ask that fat black bitch at the Hardees drive through in Demopolis.  I asked her three times if she understood no lettuce or tomatoes because she seemed distracted.  When I found the fucking things on my sandwich, I turned around in the road, went back to the drive through, punched open the window and flung the entire thing at her.   I ate the fries.