Tigers X - Number one Source to Talk Auburn Tigers Sports

Iran and Beyond

Snaggletiger

  • *
  • 44541
  • My Fighting Pearls
Iran and Beyond
« on: June 22, 2009, 04:59:33 PM »
A few weeks back, we debated over America's position/involvement with the North Korea situation.  That little problem has slowly but surely escalated, if not by action, certainly with the war of words.  It seems a new declaration of war comes out daily from Long Duck Dong. 

Total unrest in Iran over the election.  It's in the news every hour so no need to go there.  One thing that has made headlines the last couple of days though, is the GOP's claim of a lack of response to the Iran situation from President YoMama. I fully understand the USA would love to see the current dicktater, Achmanijihadidad out of power, but can't that be said for about 50 other countries around the world?

As I asked about the N.Korean deal, does the U.S. have the manpower to handle that and why the hell does it have to be America leading the charge?  Is it really YoMama's place to get involved in the Iran unrest or is that just the GOP taking an opportunity to take a jab the One? I know we have some stake in the outcome, but it's not exactly in our back yard.  What does Russia have to say about it?  How about Spain?  Hey Germany, you got anything to say about it? 

Why is it just the U.S. of A. and Britain that Achmahjebaba wants to exclude from his Friends and Family plan?  Where is the rest of the world on these matters and will it just be our soldiers that die if the shipth hits the fan?   
friendly
0
funny
0
like
0
dislike
0
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
My doctor told me I needed to stop masturbating.  I asked him why, and he said, "because I'm trying to examine you."

RWS

  • ****
  • 6053
  • The guy your mother warned you about
Re: Iran and Beyond
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2009, 05:15:56 PM »
A few weeks back, we debated over America's position/involvement with the North Korea situation.  That little problem has slowly but surely escalated, if not by action, certainly with the war of words.  It seems a new declaration of war comes out daily from Long Duck Dong. 

Total unrest in Iran over the election.  It's in the news every hour so no need to go there.  One thing that has made headlines the last couple of days though, is the GOP's claim of a lack of response to the Iran situation from President YoMama. I fully understand the USA would love to see the current dicktater, Achmanijihadidad out of power, but can't that be said for about 50 other countries around the world?

As I asked about the N.Korean deal, does the U.S. have the manpower to handle that and why the hell does it have to be America leading the charge?  Is it really YoMama's place to get involved in the Iran unrest or is that just the GOP taking an opportunity to take a jab the One? I know we have some stake in the outcome, but it's not exactly in our back yard.  What does Russia have to say about it?  How about Spain?  Hey Germany, you got anything to say about it? 

Why is it just the U.S. of A. and Britain that Achmahjebaba wants to exclude from his Friends and Family plan?  Where is the rest of the world on these matters and will it just be our soldiers that die if the shipth hits the fan?   
I actually agree with the stance on the Iran election. Any kind of endorsement the US gives to these protesters, I think, undermines what they are trying to do. Everybody knows the election was a sham. Everybody knows that we think this as well. Do we really need to put out a statement telling the world this is what we think? I don't see what the point would be. Sure, the Iranian regime will still claim that we are meddling in their affairs, but at least the rest of the world will see that we kept our mouths shut about it.

I don't see where it is our place to mess with their domestic issues. I think half of our problems stem from us sticking our nose where it doesn't belong. Our noses belong in N. Korea because they are crazy as fuck over there and are obviously wanting to fuck with us. Thats understandable. But I see no reason for us to get into this domestic mess they have in Iran. Now, if they say they're going to nuke our asses, then yeah, ok, lets do something. But until then, we should keep on keeping on. Other countries have denounced the Iranian election. Of all countries, France has publicaly stated its support of the protestors. I see no reason to do so at this time.
friendly
0
funny
0
like
0
dislike
0
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions

"You're too stupid to realize that I'm one of the levelheaded Auburn fans around here" - The Prowler

AUTailgatingRules

  • Home of the Tailgate
  • ***
  • 3990
  • By the Pink Dumpster since 2004
Re: Iran and Beyond
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2009, 05:54:18 PM »


 Now, if they say they're going to nuke our asses, then yeah, ok, lets do something. But until then, we should keep on keeping on. Other countries have denounced the Iranian election. Of all countries, France has publicaly stated its support of the protestors. I see no reason to do so at this time.

Trust me when I say that if they could find a way to make a nuke fly far enough they would nuke us tomorrow.  Have you not been paying attention to the threats made on a daily basis toward Israel.  Here is where most of the pussy ass Libs get it wrong.  You don't wait until someone that hates you figures out a way to pull it off, you have to make sure they never get that ability.  If we support the uprising from the folks in a place like Iran, you have the chance of changing the directions and un-seating a mad man that would kill us in a second if he was able.
friendly
0
funny
0
like
0
dislike
0
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions

RWS

  • ****
  • 6053
  • The guy your mother warned you about
Re: Iran and Beyond
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2009, 06:36:09 PM »
Trust me when I say that if they could find a way to make a nuke fly far enough they would nuke us tomorrow.  Have you not been paying attention to the threats made on a daily basis toward Israel.  Here is where most of the pussy ass Libs get it wrong.  You don't wait until someone that hates you figures out a way to pull it off, you have to make sure they never get that ability.  If we support the uprising from the folks in a place like Iran, you have the chance of changing the directions and un-seating a mad man that would kill us in a second if he was able.
I'm sure there are others that would nuke us tomorrow if they could. Don't get me wrong, I'm all about fucking somebody up on principle just as much as the next person. I'm all about nipping the problem in the bud too. But I don't think we would want to do anything unless there was some pretty concrete evidence. One of the problems alot of people had with the Iraq war was the lack of WMDs found after the invasion. You and I both know there were weapons there at some point. However, I don't think we can afford to have egg on our faces in the eyes of the world again. The Iranians could eventually do something to harm us. Hell, Prowler might eventually get laid. It doesn't mean its about to happen. Personally, I don't want it to get to that point. Its just a really iffy situation I think.
friendly
0
funny
0
like
0
dislike
0
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions

"You're too stupid to realize that I'm one of the levelheaded Auburn fans around here" - The Prowler

AUTailgatingRules

  • Home of the Tailgate
  • ***
  • 3990
  • By the Pink Dumpster since 2004
Re: Iran and Beyond
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2009, 11:05:05 AM »
I'm sure there are others that would nuke us tomorrow if they could. Don't get me wrong, I'm all about fucking somebody up on principle just as much as the next person. I'm all about nipping the problem in the bud too. But I don't think we would want to do anything unless there was some pretty concrete evidence. One of the problems alot of people had with the Iraq war was the lack of WMDs found after the invasion. You and I both know there were weapons there at some point. However, I don't think we can afford to have egg on our faces in the eyes of the world again. The Iranians could eventually do something to harm us. Hell, Prowler might eventually get laid. It doesn't mean its about to happen. Personally, I don't want it to get to that point. Its just a really iffy situation I think.

As it concerns Iran, the US has always been a beacon of "democracy" to the people in countries that are ravaged by brutal dictators.  When the folks rise up and protest for their rights to be a democracy of their own, the US should stand up and show support for their efforts.  Revolution from the people is the only way to overturn a brutal dictator without our military getting involved.  By not standing with the people of Iran, obama is giving Iran's Dictator silent permission to be as brutal as he wants in dealing with the uprising.

As far as this particular uprising, I'm not sure the new guy would be any better than the old one, however it is a step in the democratization of Iran.  all we can support is their right to be democratically governed, we can't pick who they vote for.  I am not for going in and bombing the shit out of Iran (that is Israel's job), but we should be vocal in support of their right to free and fair elections so that they can be governed by the persoon of their choice.
friendly
0
funny
0
like
0
dislike
0
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions

Tiger Wench

  • ******
  • 10352
  • Does this armour make my ass look big?
Re: Iran and Beyond
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2009, 11:30:02 AM »
The other problem with elections in Iran is that it really doesn't matter which mouth foaming puppet is the Head Douche in Charge, since the Mad Mullahs are the ones truly in power.  Khamenei is the puppet master, Adchamdenneenitjahaadad is just a figurehead.  He pretty much does not shit without Khamenei's permission, altho he puts on a big show in public of being Da Man.
friendly
0
funny
0
like
0
dislike
0
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions

RWS

  • ****
  • 6053
  • The guy your mother warned you about
Re: Iran and Beyond
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2009, 06:06:05 PM »
As it concerns Iran, the US has always been a beacon of "democracy" to the people in countries that are ravaged by brutal dictators.  When the folks rise up and protest for their rights to be a democracy of their own, the US should stand up and show support for their efforts.  Revolution from the people is the only way to overturn a brutal dictator without our military getting involved.  By not standing with the people of Iran, obama is giving Iran's Dictator silent permission to be as brutal as he wants in dealing with the uprising.

As far as this particular uprising, I'm not sure the new guy would be any better than the old one, however it is a step in the democratization of Iran.  all we can support is their right to be democratically governed, we can't pick who they vote for.  I am not for going in and bombing the shit out of Iran (that is Israel's job), but we should be vocal in support of their right to free and fair elections so that they can be governed by the persoon of their choice.
So by the US publically siding with the Iranian people, exactly what will that accomplish? Apparently they need no motivation to stand up for what they believe in. They are already doing that. We can't make Iran hold another election. Their government could give two shits and a fuck less about what America has to say. Their government does whatever they want in their country anyway. How long has the US been trying to put Western influence into the Middle East now? News flash: it doesn't work because they are not rational people over there, for the most part. Nobody can compel them to hold another election, or to do a recount. Whats the point in doing either of those when you and I both know that the government is going to manipulate that as well?

If we were discussing sane, rational people and governments, then yeah I could go along with your notion. The problem is their leadership is crazier than a run over dog. They don't care what we, or anybody else thinks.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2009, 06:09:11 PM by runswithscissors »
friendly
0
funny
0
like
0
dislike
0
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions

"You're too stupid to realize that I'm one of the levelheaded Auburn fans around here" - The Prowler

Saniflush

  • Pledge Master
  • ****
  • 21656
Re: Iran and Beyond
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2009, 07:43:37 AM »
As it concerns Iran, the US has always been a beacon of "democracy" to the people in countries that are ravaged by brutal dictators.  When the folks rise up and protest for their rights to be a democracy of their own, the US should stand up and show support for their efforts.  Revolution from the people is the only way to overturn a brutal dictator without our military getting involved.  By not standing with the people of Iran, obama is giving Iran's Dictator silent permission to be as brutal as he wants in dealing with the uprising.

As far as this particular uprising, I'm not sure the new guy would be any better than the old one, however it is a step in the democratization of Iran.  all we can support is their right to be democratically governed, we can't pick who they vote for.  I am not for going in and bombing the shit out of Iran (that is Israel's job), but we should be vocal in support of their right to free and fair elections so that they can be governed by the person of their choice.

I agree to a point but Bush sr. did this after the first gulf war and it completely backfired on him.
friendly
0
funny
0
like
0
dislike
0
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
"Hey my friends are the ones that wanted to eat at that shitty hole in the wall that only served bread and wine.  What kind of brick and mud business model is that.  Stick to the cart if that's all you're going to serve.  Then that dude came in with like 12 other people, and some of them weren't even wearing shoes, and the restaurant sat them right across from us. It was gross, and they were all stinky and dirty.  Then dude starts talking about eating his body and drinking his blood...I almost lost it.  That's the last supper I'll ever have there, and I hope he dies a horrible death."

Snaggletiger

  • *
  • 44541
  • My Fighting Pearls
Re: Iran and Beyond
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2009, 08:00:13 AM »
So by the US publically siding with the Iranian people, exactly what will that accomplish? Apparently they need no motivation to stand up for what they believe in. They are already doing that. We can't make Iran hold another election. Their government could give two shits and a fuck less about what America has to say. Their government does whatever they want in their country anyway. How long has the US been trying to put Western influence into the Middle East now? News flash: it doesn't work because they are not rational people over there, for the most part. Nobody can compel them to hold another election, or to do a recount. Whats the point in doing either of those when you and I both know that the government is going to manipulate that as well?

If we were discussing sane, rational people and governments, then yeah I could go along with your notion. The problem is their leadership is crazier than a run over dog. They don't care what we, or anybody else thinks.


This...I totally agree with.  It's not our country and it's not our business.  It's on the other side of the world and for the most part, they hate our guts.  It's not up to us to try and push our beliefs on them and promote a democratic form of government for their people.  Iran is in Germany's back yard...and Russia's back yard..and all of Europe's back yard.  If they don't like what's going on, let them deal with it if they want to.  We have no business in Iran and..oh, wait..I forgot..

oil.
friendly
0
funny
0
like
0
dislike
0
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
My doctor told me I needed to stop masturbating.  I asked him why, and he said, "because I'm trying to examine you."

Tarheel

  • Pledge
  • ***
  • 4166
  • "I'm not really wise, but I can be cranky."
Re: Iran and Beyond
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2009, 12:41:35 PM »
The real government in Iran (the mad mullahs as TigerWench and others pointed out) hate us primarily because of our support of Israel.  This is true for practically every Islamic country in the Middle-East (not to mention other parts of the world).  It does not matter what The ONE says or doesn't say.  They will always hate us and blame us for everything because of this support.  We do buy their oil and that fact makes for a uneasy truce but I think that's the only thing that does (as Birdman pointed out).

The people of Iran are ethnically different from the Arabs in the Middle-East which makes them more inclined towards democracy because of their pre-Islam civilization and traditions rather than the Arabs who are still very culturally tribal and backward due, in part, because of the Religion of Pieces as I see it which has never been reformed from it's medieval practices (unlike Christianity, for example, which went through a reformation and modernization for lack of better terms).  The ONE was partially correct in pointing out in his speech in Cairo that some of the great advances of civilization started in Persia (Iran) with these people but that was before Islam dragged their society back to the Stone Age (which The ONE did not point out).

There's really not much that we can do to bring about a lasting democracy to any country in the Middle-East until the followers of the Religion of Pieces leave their old religious practices behind and reform it and the backward cultural practices that it causes.  There's a good chance that the Iranian people can make this happen but they are the ones that have to do it.

Realistically, the US has bought about a democratic change for Iraq and Afghanistan but the cost was heavy (and exacerbated by the media/Democrats due to their political hatred of W).  The question remains as to whether either democracy will succeed there without our presence.  It is possible.  Turkey is a good example but were it not for the modernization bought about there internally by Ataturk that nation would probably be just as backward as the rest of the Arab countries.

The real issue beyond a fundamental reformation as I see it is Nuclear Arms.  The US and our allies have got to keep this kind of power out of the hands of these backward, medieval, mad mullahs along with the power-crazed Arabs.  Maybe solving that problem should be left to Israel?  The only other way I think to solve that is to make it personal for the mad mullahs and Arab leaders as we did with Qaddafi.  He readily disarmed when he knew that his personal life was at the stake.  We have to take this approach because we have no leverage with this folk other than our need for their oil and their willingness to sell it to us for products/services/money that they need.  And, while our military is exemplary, we simply can't force democratic change over the entire Middle-East (especially with the socialists bankrupting what's left of our government with their pet schemes and social engineering).

As to North Korea we've squandered away what leverage we did have with that little, pot-bellied tyrant by not putting intense pressure on the Chi-comms to solve the Nuclear issue there.  Now that he has nukes and missiles to put them on he basically has started a new, regional Cold War.  If he was insane enough to use them I think that he would have already done so (as someone implied about the mad mullahs who are crazed enough) but he's having too much 'fun' trying to sell them to the mad mullahs, Chavez, and anybody else he can find who hates the US.

It's a bad situation all around.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2009, 12:46:50 PM by Tarheel »
friendly
0
funny
0
like
0
dislike
0
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me. 
-Ayn Rand

The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.
-The Right Honourable Margaret Thatcher

The government solution to a problem is usually as bad as the problem.
-Milton Friedman

The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'
-Ronald Reagan

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
-Thomas Jefferson