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It Just Hit Home

Snaggletiger

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Re: It Just Hit Home
« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2024, 12:11:01 PM »
If they would rather die, then they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population.
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My doctor told me I needed to stop masturbating.  I asked him why, and he said, "because I'm trying to examine you."

Re: It Just Hit Home
« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2024, 12:27:15 PM »
You're completely missing the point.  I don't deny that there are some who need temporary help in order to overcome short-term issues.  I also don't deny there is an entire class of people who need medical/mental health assistance. Those people shouldn't be on the street. It's NOT helping them to hand them cash. No matter how altruistic your intent.

I'm way older than you.  I guaranTEE you without a shadow of a doubt I've spent more time working in government housing sites and with people on government assistance than you or anyone else on this board.  In a prior life, I built an entire business that catered to that market. 

Have you ever sat in the grease and roach-infested kitchen of a second-generation family on public assistance?  I've done that thousands of times.  Ever listened in as a mom told her 16-year old daughter (who already had one kid) that she needed to have another one because they "needed that check" even as she signed off to pay my company $27 a week for 18 months for a washer-dryer set (she already had a TV, VCR, stereo and living room set from us). 

Ever watched a nice apartment complex turn into a war zone within a year of being designated Section 8? I've seen it numerous times.   

Yes, people need help.  We need to reform the system and figure out a way to cull the grifters who provide nothing in exchange for a government subsidized life. 

People like Wes don't want that.  They're fine with an entire class of people who will live and die without ever contributing a thing to society while they take, take, take, take, take and then bitch and moan about how they don't get enough.  Why?  Because those people vote for people who promise them more free shit - and then rarely deliver.  Those freebies assuage the massive (and unreasonable) amount of white guilt  that burdens people like Wes. 

Thing is?  I don't care how much of HIS money he gives to people or causes. I don't care if he takes every dime he makes and flings it out the window at "stolen valor" veterans begging for cash on every street corner.  I do care when he demands I do the same, and then when I don't at a level he thinks is appropriate, he and his ilk beg the corrupt government to steal more from me in order to fund things I don't support -- like handout programs. 

The problem is that the grifters and the addicts make up 90-95% of the people "in need."  You cannot help them - any of them - and you cannot benefit society by GIVING them more.  We should know that by now.

The point I am making is in through the lenses of morality and spiritual belief.  Trying to keep politics out of it per Snags' request.  I'm not arguing your stance on Government involvement, as I have worked for them before and know how highly inefficient they are at running things.  I also know how carelessly they throw money at problems that perpetuate instead of solve.  Agree with you whole-heartedly there. 

Through that moral & spiritual piece, I know that we are called to help those in need & to witness.  We as a people can do much better helping our fellow men & women in need is the only point I am trying to make.  The real problem is we lack the organization and leadership to do it in the most effective way that is far reaching. 

On another note, with the advances in A.I. technology, I do believe it is inevitable that jobs will be going away at an astronomical rate and that a UBI will be voted in whether we like it or not.  We were supposed to work our way toward a Marty McFly future with flying cars and such.  Instead, we need to go ahead and start strategizing on how to take down Skynet.
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Don't rush me, sonny. You rush a miracle man, you get rotten miracles.

WiregrassTiger

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Re: It Just Hit Home
« Reply #22 on: January 16, 2024, 12:33:58 PM »
You're carrying a mighty broad brush on the issue.  There's validity to the points that you've made.  I'll even concede the majority of that particular demographic falls into the category of sitting back, relaxing, and taking the help with no intentions of climbing out. 

However, there are people that would do better with a little help.  Those are the ones that make it worth it.  To quote the great Jackie Moon, "E.L.E."! 

I once had a similar experience to yours in NYC trying to hand a homeless man a steak quesadilla.  He shoved it back towards me and told me to fuck off.  A few seconds later, I saw another homeless man that graciously took the meal and asked me to pray with him.  Worth it.
 
Handing out quesadillas to the homeless and bartering with them for sex are two totally different propositions.
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WiregrassTiger

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Re: It Just Hit Home
« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2024, 12:48:23 PM »
The problem is that the grifters and the addicts make up 90-95% of the people "in need."  You cannot help them - any of them - and you cannot benefit society by GIVING them more.  We should know that by now.
I agree that 95% of them are addicts/shysters/grifters or fill in the blank. The majority of them played a major part of getting themselves into their situation but it wasn’t intentional. Most of them fucked up but there are some who had life happen. I’ve met quite a few of them. There’s a lot of mental illness, drugs and alcoholism. They are actually pretty cool to hang out with. You never know what’s going to happen next.

But the part about not being able to help them is wrong. Even if you give a meth head a sandwich, sure he is still a meth head. But at least he’s not hungry. So, you HAVE helped him. Like Mother Theresa said, we can’t feed them all but you can feed one. And this is a good thing. Unless of course this person rapes your wife and stabs you in the heart with an ice pick. I would then regret my decision.
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Kaos

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Re: It Just Hit Home
« Reply #24 on: January 16, 2024, 02:21:58 PM »
The point I am making is in through the lenses of morality and spiritual belief.  Trying to keep politics out of it per Snags' request.  I'm not arguing your stance on Government involvement, as I have worked for them before and know how highly inefficient they are at running things.  I also know how carelessly they throw money at problems that perpetuate instead of solve.  Agree with you whole-heartedly there. 

Through that moral & spiritual piece, I know that we are called to help those in need & to witness.  We as a people can do much better helping our fellow men & women in need is the only point I am trying to make.  The real problem is we lack the organization and leadership to do it in the most effective way that is far reaching. 

On another note, with the advances in A.I. technology, I do believe it is inevitable that jobs will be going away at an astronomical rate and that a UBI will be voted in whether we like it or not.  We were supposed to work our way toward a Marty McFly future with flying cars and such.  Instead, we need to go ahead and start strategizing on how to take down Skynet.

I don't disagree with what you said at all. 

My only point is that cash, whether from me, you, the government, or whoever, will NOT solve the problem.  It only exacerbates it. 

I'm willing to do almost anything to help, but that anything stops short them being given money or things with no accountability. Giving things is nothing more than enabling.  And that DOES. NOT. WORK.  Ever. 

All that does is delay them reaching a point where they ask for REAL help.  Not "$20 for a hotel room."
« Last Edit: January 16, 2024, 02:23:35 PM by Kaos »
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If you want free cheese, look in a mousetrap.

WiregrassTiger

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Re: It Just Hit Home
« Reply #25 on: January 16, 2024, 05:12:37 PM »
I don’t know if any of you guys want to participate but me and Kaos are going to make a big drum of hot coffee tonight and piss and shit in it. Then we’re going over to Mobile to distribute it out in the homeless camps.
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Kaos

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Re: It Just Hit Home
« Reply #26 on: January 21, 2024, 11:48:08 AM »
I don’t know if any of you guys want to participate but me and Kaos are going to make a big drum of hot coffee tonight and piss and shit in it. Then we’re going over to Mobile to distribute it out in the homeless camps.

Sorry I missed it. 

I was too busy tracking down the homeless guy who stabbed and tried to rape a woman in Foley.  I wanted to hand him $50 because that would help him sooooo much. 
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If you want free cheese, look in a mousetrap.