2014 NFL Draft...

[WiregrassTiger]

In 1813 Thomas Jefferson wrote a recently discovered letter to the Five Forks Methodists in what is now Maine where he addressed this subject.

The letter reads in part:
...when discourse regarding superior play is undertaken it must follow that such discourse is by nature bound to be subjective, restricted by the personal predjudices of mortal man and influenced by their vagaries. Mere statistical relationships cannot fully  define the greatness of a man. One must take into consideration his competition, his peers, the relative performance of others in his same capacity and the opportunities his position allowed. No two shall ever fully agree on these variables, therefore consensus can rarely be reached. Each then is right in his analysis so long as a case with relative merit can be made. And oh, by the way? I carved the Moses statue and super glued it to the Supreme Court. If I'd known people were going to misinterpret what I meant as a simple preventative measure to disallow a papal king and use it to make children cry by ripping nativity scenes out of public buildings, I would have written it differently so the idiots would make no mistake as to my intent."


Madison, Washington, Hamilton and Nicholas Cage all penned letters of agreement.

Do you have a link?

[Snaggletiger]

In 1813 Thomas Jefferson wrote a recently discovered letter to the Five Forks Methodists in what is now Maine where he addressed this subject.

The letter reads in part:
...when discourse regarding superior play is undertaken it must follow that such discourse is by nature bound to be subjective, restricted by the personal predjudices of mortal man and influenced by their vagaries. Mere statistical relationships cannot fully  define the greatness of a man. One must take into consideration his competition, his peers, the relative performance of others in his same capacity and the opportunities his position allowed. No two shall ever fully agree on these variables, therefore consensus can rarely be reached. Each then is right in his analysis so long as a case with relative merit can be made. And oh, by the way? I carved the Moses statue and super glued it to the Supreme Court. If I'd known people were going to misinterpret what I meant as a simple preventative measure to disallow a papal king and use it to make children cry by ripping nativity scenes out of public buildings, I would have written it differently so the idiots would make no mistake as to my intent."


Madison, Washington, Hamilton and Nicholas Cage all penned letters of agreement.

 

[Vandy Vol]

Like I said, ALL of those players played and rotated along with Dee Ford. Don't take production as a reflection of playing time either.

If a player is good enough to spend more time playing in the rotation, the stats generally reflect that.

But even if you don't want to accept that general premise and still want to argue that freshmen and sophomores were prominently featured in the rotation, then you've still got a dilemma to overcome in your argument:  If Auburn is playing a freshman DE a significant enough amount of time to impact Ford's playing, then you don't have any standout DEs that should even be considered for SEC DPOY.  You're defeating the "Ford for SEC DPOY" argument by suggesting the freshmen get as much playing time or any significant amount of playing time.

You also have no idea if Missouri rotated the DEs as much, nor do you have no idea if they rotated DTs in place of the DEs, therefore you can't use that analogy. I can though, because I know for a fact (watched it with my own two eyes) that the DEs at Auburn all rotated and two of them were also used as DTs.

Did you clock the amount of time they were in?  Got comparisons to the amount of time Ford played?  If not, then you can't argue that this alleged rotation of freshmen and sophomores who had a handful of tackles was the reason for diminishing Ford's stats.

Aside from that, you also don't know what Missouri's DEs and DTs did, therefore you also can't argue that Sam has better stats because Missouri doesn't rotate DEs and DTs, but Auburn does.  Again, defeating your own argument.  It's not a legitimate analogy if you don't know the attributes of both subjects being compared.

[Snaggletiger]

Craig Sanders has a rotating shower head. 

[Vandy Vol]

Craig Sanders has a rotating shower head.

Do you think he'd let me turn it on full blast and shove it in my butt?

[GH2001]

If a player is good enough to spend more time playing in the rotation, the stats generally reflect that.

But even if you don't want to accept that general premise and still want to argue that freshmen and sophomores were prominently featured in the rotation, then you've still got a dilemma to overcome in your argument:  If Auburn is playing a freshman DE a significant enough amount of time to impact Ford's playing, then you don't have any standout DEs that should even be considered for SEC DPOY.  You're defeating the "Ford for SEC DPOY" argument by suggesting the freshmen get as much playing time or any significant amount of playing time.


Did you clock the amount of time they were in?  Got comparisons to the amount of time Ford played?  If not, then you can't argue that this alleged rotation of freshmen and sophomores who had a handful of tackles was the reason for diminishing Ford's stats.

Aside from that, you also don't know what Missouri's DEs and DTs did, therefore you also can't argue that Sam has better stats because Missouri doesn't rotate DEs and DTs, but Auburn does.  Again, defeating your own argument.  It's not a legitimate analogy if you don't know the attributes of both subjects being compared.

Dude....it's not a court room.

This was a real simple premise. Tw asked why Sam won the award despite the fact the he looks inferior in almost all aspects. And my take is that is was the stats. And like you said, the fact that Fords best performances came after the award was voted on. It's not really a debate on who is better so much as it is - although someone could have been better why did Sam win it anyway? And I still stand by what I said. How a player can win an award can be the result of many factors and very circumstantial. I think that was the case here. Stats and timing were everything. Whether Sam was better or not was all decided on both of those factors.

And then there's Clowneys laziness that got in the way too. And Mosely being a bit underwhelming in 2013.

[Vandy Vol]

Dude....it's not a court room.

Logic applies everywhere.

This was a real simple premise. Tw asked why Sam won the award despite the fact the he looks inferior in almost all aspects.

Inferior based on a one day performance at a combine?  He can (and did) look shitty on combine day, but that doesn't change what he did during the 2013 season.  The award was not "Most Athletically Talented Player Who Likely Will Have a More Fruitful Career in the Future."  It was SEC DPOY for 2013.

And my take is that is was the stats. And like you said, the fact that Fords best performances came after the award was voted on. It's not really a debate on who is better so much as it is - although someone could have been better why did Sam win it anyway?

Someone may have been better statistically.  Someone may have been better in some way other than statistics (although I still argue that statistics go a long way, because you can't be the best defensive player if you're not making defensive plays, e.g., tackles, TFLs, sacks, etc.).  But advocating Ford as that "someone" for 2013?  I personally don't agree with it.  Again, not saying that Ford was vastly inferior, but simply not good enough to be clearly the choice over Sam in 2013.  Sam was also unanimously voted as first team SEC defense, so I'm not alone in this.

And I still stand by what I said. How a player can win an award can be the result of many factors and very circumstantial. I think that was the case here. Stats and timing were everything. Whether Sam was better or not was all decided on both of those factors.

And then there's Clowneys laziness that got in the way too. And Mosely being a bit underwhelming in 2013.

Indeed.  And just because a player wins an award in 2013 doesn't mean he's the best player generally, or that he'll consistently be better season after season.  I'm in no way defending Sam as one of the best players to play the game, or as the clear winner for SEC DPOY over everyone else.  I'm just saying that I don't see how Ford could be selected as "superior" over Sam for SEC DPOY 2013.

[Buzz Killington]

Craig Sanders has a rotating shower head.

After his honeymoon anyway...

[Tiger Wench]

Logic applies everywhere.

I'll bet you are a riot at parties.

[Snaggletiger]

I'll bet you are a riot at parties.

He's the Spock of the X

[Tiger Wench]

He's the Spock of the X

He's the Sheldon of the X.

[Snaggletiger]

He's the Sheldon of the X.

Bazinga

[Kaos]

Bazinga

I'll be that other one who used to live with Ellen Griswold and now gets to hook up with the moon-faced chick.

[Vandy Vol]

I'll bet you are a riot at parties.

That depends on how many penises are exposed.

[djsimp]

That depends on how many penises are exposed.

See, that all depends on how many "dicks" show up.

[DnATL]

Quick comparison of playing styles:

Ford plays mostly piano, Sam plays rusty trombone and skin flute
Ford tickles the ivory, Sam tickles the brown eye
Ford pursues quarterbacks, Sam pursues tight ends

Obviously prefers Sam

[Vandy Vol]

Quick comparison of playing styles:

Ford plays mostly piano, Sam plays rusty trombone and skin flute
Ford tickles the ivory, Sam tickles the brown eye
Ford pursues quarterbacks, Sam pursues tight ends

Obviously prefers Sam

Between the two?  Of course...but if we're talking ideal preferences, I prefer John Stamos as Uncle Jesse.

[The Prowler]

He's the Sheldon of the X.