Rest In Piss...

[GarMan]

Those "advances in healthcare and medicine" are part and parcel of the reason why people are turning to choosing their right to die on their own terms.  Sometimes - many times - the treatment is worse than the disease.  And all the treatment might do is buy some additional time, but what good is additional time if you are too sick or swollen to enjoy it?  I would rather spend my last days off the treatment, stoned on pain meds as necessary, at home with my pets and surrounded by family and friends, and slip off quietly into that good night on my own terms, than to be in some hospital, hooked up to tubes, losing all my hair, dropping down to 90 lbs of skin and bones because the chemo makes me too sick to eat, watching my friends and family suffer right along with me.  Medicine may keep my body alive far longer than God intended - and if it is my time to go, I want to go on my own terms, and at peace.

You are totally off the mark on this one, Gar Man.  My life, my choice as to when to end it.  None of your damn business, or the government's either.

 

You're still hung up on this...  If I don't drink the koolaide, accept AND condone this reprehensible act unconditionally, I'm somehow imposing my will on others.   I don't care what you do with your life.  I disagree with this decision.  I believe it to be a cowardly act, and I don't believe that others should participate in assisting you.  If my grandmother had accepted the assessment of the first four oncologists, she would have shriveled up and died within six months, similar to your explanation above.  She also would have missed almost an entire decade of her 72 year lifespan and several experiences that brought her joy and pride.  There are no absolutes.  The professional assessments of the first four oncologists were proven to be wrong after she continued to fight and seek alternative treatments.  Sure, she had periods of pain and other discomfort...  Sure, she had to endure chemo and the associated sickness...  And, the end wasn't fun...  She didn't give up, and she went out on her terms... terms that I find MUCH more dignified than yours...

[GarMan]

You are REALLY trivializing this. 

I believe the same of your views on this.  Treating life and death as a trivial concept... an inconvenience at times...  Pardon me....

       

[RWS]

I'm fine with that.  I'm all about the personal responsibility.  By all means, do it yourself, but as said before, don't bastardize the medical industry or condone contract-for-hire grim reapers to prey on pathetic cowards in a moment of despair in their desire to abandon life.  That's not dignity, and that's the biggest issue I have with this. 

Why is it that they are pathetic cowards? You're not them. You're not going through what they are. It's easy for you to sit there and talk about how weak and pathetic somebody is for wanting to end their life. You're not them. It's not up to you or I to decide at what point offing yourself is cowardly or pathetic.

What is dignity? Your adult kids having to bathe you and help you go to the bathroom? Somebody having to feed you? Somebody having to bathe you 24/7? Shitting and pissing on yourself on a daily basis? Living in terrible pain on a daily basis? Withering away in front of your family and becoming a freak show? Fuck. That.

I told my wife that if anything ever happens to me where I'm in a coma or a vegetative state to give me a month, and let me go if nothing changes. That's my choice. I'm not putting my family through years of sadness, and I don't want to live that way. If that makes me pathetic or a coward, then so be it. It's my choice what I do with my life.

[GarMan]

Why is it that they are pathetic cowards? You're not them. You're not going through what they are. It's easy for you to sit there and talk about how weak and pathetic somebody is for wanting to end their life. You're not them. It's not up to you or I to decide at what point offing yourself is cowardly or pathetic.

Sure it is...  We're all entitled to an opinion.  I don't have to agree with yours, and you don't have to agree with mine.  Like I said before, I really don't give a rat's ass what anyone does with their life.  I don't have to accept or like your decision, and my experiences thus far have convinced me that this "offing yourself" decision is a cowardly position. 

What is dignity? Your adult kids having to bathe you and help you go to the bathroom? Somebody having to feed you? Somebody having to bathe you 24/7? poopting and pissing on yourself on a daily basis? Living in terrible pain on a daily basis? Withering away in front of your family and becoming a freak show? eff. That.

Ever visit a family member in an assisted living center?  You've just described most of them...

I told my wife that if anything ever happens to me where I'm in a coma or a vegetative state to give me a month, and let me go if nothing changes. That's my choice. I'm not putting my family through years of sadness, and I don't want to live that way. If that makes me pathetic or a coward, then so be it. It's my choice what I do with my life. 

Well harumph, harumph, harumph...  For all you know, this level of consciousness in this state could be an extreme state of pleasure or euphoria.  I do understand what you're saying, but the decision to end your life in these scenarios is driven by fear.  Fear of being a burden…  Fear of being dependent…  Fear of incapacity…  Fear of an uncontrollable existence… 

[GH2001]

Why is it that they are pathetic cowards? You're not them. You're not going through what they are. It's easy for you to sit there and talk about how weak and pathetic somebody is for wanting to end their life. You're not them. It's not up to you or I to decide at what point offing yourself is cowardly or pathetic.

What is dignity? Your adult kids having to bathe you and help you go to the bathroom? Somebody having to feed you? Somebody having to bathe you 24/7? Shitting and pissing on yourself on a daily basis? Living in terrible pain on a daily basis? Withering away in front of your family and becoming a freak show? Fuck. That.

I told my wife that if anything ever happens to me where I'm in a coma or a vegetative state to give me a month, and let me go if nothing changes. That's my choice. I'm not putting my family through years of sadness, and I don't want to live that way. If that makes me pathetic or a coward, then so be it. It's my choice what I do with my life.

It took Dr. Death to get RWS and the rest of us Aubs to agree wholeheartedly on something.

[CCTAU]

My only point of support for assisted suicide would come from a pain standpoint. Some people can live with it and have experiences that make life worthwhile. But there are a lot of people out there in pain every day with no relief. The strongest drug we have today is still morphine. But too much of it stops your heart. And there are many people that the amount of morphine it would take to alleviate their daily pain, would either kill them or put them into a comatose like state.

But then there are people like you who have no idea what true pain is and think that these people are just faking it so they can be part of a new assisted suicide club. I assure you that for every one freak that may do that, there are many more that know that death is around the corner and they are living in hell daily with no relief. These are the people that need to have the choice.


I abhor suicide from a normal perspective. Those folks who do it because life is just too much, make me nauseated. There is help for those. We do have medication and therapy for that. And I feel like you that they are cowards and want to run from the real life. But again, they have resources to help them get better or at least cope.


But there are some the we still do not have enough medication to stop the pain enough that it is not excruciating on a daily basis. Until you have lived beside someone on a daily basis that has to take pain medicine to function each day, you have no idea what you are talking about. When the doctor says this is your only choice, and when it gets too bad that the medicine will not help anymore we do not know what to do, then these people need a choice.

People like you stand ignorantly by and think that they should just suck it up. The one's in pain pray the you never have to go through what they do. Because they know what it is like. And they do not wish it on you, even though you would force them to endure it.

[AUTiger1]

I watched my 86 year old grandfather eat Oxycotin like they were tic-tac's b/c not only was the cancer eating his body alive but the chemo was making him puke, lose weight, poop water,  stay freezing cold in a 85 degree house,  turning his skin greyish yellow and just basically killing him, but by all means you are correct.....if he had wanted to "end it all" he was just being a goddamn effing coward for not wanting to live in misery and put others through the hell of watching him suffer and die. 

 

Oh, and btw, we (my father, my brother, uncles and myself) had several discussions with him where he would tell us that he was so sick that he prayed he would die and wished he could do as much.  He basically died b/c he was so sick that the fluid build up in his lungs suffocated him.  There wasn't a medicine that was going to cure him and he knew it, he had been fighting it for too many years and it kept winning.  Sorry, but in that situation, I would gladly take a "night night shot" and get it over with.

[GarMan]

My only point of support for assisted suicide would come from a pain standpoint. Some people can live with it and have experiences that make life worthwhile. But there are a lot of people out there in pain every day with no relief. The strongest drug we have today is still morphine. But too much of it stops your heart. And there are many people that the amount of morphine it would take to alleviate their daily pain, would either kill them or put them into a comatose like state.

But then there are people like you who have no idea what true pain is and think that these people are just faking it so they can be part of a new assisted suicide club. I assure you that for every one freak that may do that, there are many more that know that death is around the corner and they are living in hell daily with no relief. These are the people that need to have the choice.


I abhor suicide from a normal perspective. Those folks who do it because life is just too much, make me nauseated. There is help for those. We do have medication and therapy for that. And I feel like you that they are cowards and want to run from the real life. But again, they have resources to help them get better or at least cope.


But there are some the we still do not have enough medication to stop the pain enough that it is not excruciating on a daily basis. Until you have lived beside someone on a daily basis that has to take pain medicine to function each day, you have no idea what you are talking about. When the doctor says this is your only choice, and when it gets too bad that the medicine will not help anymore we do not know what to do, then these people need a choice.

People like you stand ignorantly by and think that they should just suck it up. The one's in pain pray the you never have to go through what they do. Because they know what it is like. And they do not wish it on you, even though you would force them to endure it. 

I don't need to rape a child, know a pedophile or have been raped as a child to assess that pedophilia is wrong.  I don't even need to be a parent to determine their punishment... slow, painful disembowelment followed by dismemberment with a rusty spoon.  It'll hurt more.  Back on topic, I'm not forcing anybody to do anything here, and I don't have to approve of the concept.  I do not agree that the medical industry should be bastardized to put people down like the local animal shelter or vet does with strays and sick animals.  Exaggeration?  Perhaps, to an extent...  Nobody is forcing these people to do anything.  If medical care is keeping them alive, they can refuse it if that's their wish. 

[GH2001]

I don't need to rape a child, know a pedophile or have been raped as a child to assess that pedophilia is wrong.  I don't even need to be a parent to determine their punishment... slow, painful disembowelment followed by dismemberment with a rusty spoon.  It'll hurt more.  Back on topic, I'm not forcing anybody to do anything here, and I don't have to approve of the concept.  I do not agree that the medical industry should be bastardized to put people down like the local animal shelter or vet does with strays and sick animals.  Exaggeration?  Perhaps, to an extent...  Nobody is forcing these people to do anything.  If medical care is keeping them alive, they can refuse it if that's their wish.

Not getting the big picture.

I think we're stuck in a "personal opinion vs legal right" blackhole here. Hate it all you want personally. But what someone wants to do in regards to ending their pain and suffering on their own terms is should only be the business of them and their family. Not a state gov't, not a federal gov't. They are not doing anything to kill or harm anyone else. I do not know why that cannot be a legal choice. Like AUT1, I watched my grandfather suffer and die from Alzheimers. Horrible horrible death. I would love for someone to be able to choose NOT to go through that type of pain and suffering if given the option ahead of time.

[RWS]

He basically died b/c he was so sick that the fluid build up in his lungs suffocated him. 

But, as far as you know, that felt euphoric.

 

[GarMan]

Not getting the big picture.

I think we're stuck in a "personal opinion vs legal right" blackhole here. Hate it all you want personally. But what someone wants to do in regards to ending their pain and suffering on their own terms is should only be the business of them and their family. Not a state gov't, not a federal gov't. They are not doing anything to kill or harm anyone else. I do not know why that cannot be a legal choice. Like AUT1, I watched my grandfather suffer and die from Alzheimers. Horrible horrible death. I would love for someone to be able to choose NOT to go through that type of pain and suffering if given the option ahead of time.

I've got the big picture.  I've been close enough to the horrendous terminal cancer battles of four grandparents and an uncle.  My opinion isn't going to change, and I don't know how much more clearly I can say the following.  I'm not imposing my views or suggesting any laws to constrain anyone else's decisions.  I don't approve of the concept, and I don't believe the medical industry should provide supportive services to put people down.  That's all.  What do you folks really expect here?  Legalized euthanasia or suicide?  Or, do you need everyone else's acceptance and approval of your position on the matter?  That last one's not going to happen...