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The Library => The SGA => Topic started by: Tarheel on June 17, 2010, 06:43:51 PM
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Wow! Is she beginning to tack to the libertarian side? I know that in the past I've heard something similar to what she's said...but I just can't remember where. Hmmm...this could indicate a sea-change in the Republican Party.
Excerpt from The Politico, all emphasis is my own:
Palin: Pot is a 'minimal problem'
By: Andy Barr
June 17, 2010 07:47 AM EDT
Former Alaska GOP Gov. Sarah Palin said Wednesday night that law enforcement should not focus its energy on the “minimal problem” of marijuana.
Palin made the comment during an appearance on the Fox Business Network with Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas).
The libertarian Paul said enforcing marijuana restrictions specifically and the war on drugs more generally is a “useless battle,” a point Palin somewhat agreed with, though she was clear that she does not support legalization.
"If we're talking about pot, I'm not for the legalization of pot,” Palin said. “I think that would just encourage our young people to think that it was OK to go ahead and use it.”
“However, I think we need to prioritize our law enforcement efforts,” Palin added. “If somebody's gonna smoke a joint in their house and not do anybody any harm, then perhaps there are other things our cops should be looking at to engage in and try to clean up some of the other problems we have in society.”
Palin then urged law enforcement to “not concentrate on such a, relatively speaking, minimal problem we have in the country.”
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Source:
http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=45BC8F2D-18FE-70B2-A8EE810B4F176C56 (http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=45BC8F2D-18FE-70B2-A8EE810B4F176C56)
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Wow! Is she beginning to tack to the libertarian side? I know that in the past I've heard something similar to what she's said...but I just can't remember where. Hmmm...this could indicate a sea-change in the Republican Party.
Excerpt from The Politico, all emphasis is my own:
Source:
http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=45BC8F2D-18FE-70B2-A8EE810B4F176C56 (http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=45BC8F2D-18FE-70B2-A8EE810B4F176C56)
Not exactly advocating legalization. She just doesn't think that's priority one for our government.
You're in a sad place where you find yourself to the right of Sarah Palin on social issues.
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Not exactly advocating legalization. She just doesn't think that's priority one for our government.
You're in a sad place where you find yourself to the right of Sarah Palin on social issues.
I'm all for it being legal. I do not like it personally just like I don't cigarettes - allergy induced asthma prevents me from doing either even if I wanted to. But I think it would solve a lot legalizing it - free up more police resources, jail cells (if you have enough on you to get put in jail over it), it would do a lot to stop the cartels in Mexico at the border, we could tax the hell out of it and bring in more revenue. Same rules would apply to it as apply to alcohol - if it impairs your ability to operate a vehicle, you will get in trouble. Chad - I fear this is a topic we will agree on.
But she may be right, we probably have bigger fish to fry at the moment. But it def should be visited soon when some of the dust settles from BP and the immigration issue.
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I'm all for it being legal. I do not like it personally just like I don't cigarettes - allergy induced asthma prevents me from doing either even if I wanted to. But I think it would solve a lot legalizing it - free up more police resources, jail cells (if you have enough on you to get put in jail over it), it would do a lot to stop the cartels in Mexico at the border, we could tax the hell out of it and bring in more revenue. Same rules would apply to it as apply to alcohol - if it impairs your ability to operate a vehicle, you will get in trouble. Chad - I fear this is a topic we will agree on.
But she may be right, we probably have bigger fish to fry at the moment. But it def should be visited soon when some of the dust settles from BP and the immigration issue.
I do not propose full legalization. But to get arrested because you have a small bag of pot on you is ridiculous. As long as the stoners are doing it and not driving, I'm good. I don;t think anyone has ever stoned themselves to death. Yet we have alcoholics running around town every day. It would be simple really. If a cop pulls over a car and finds pot in it, all he has to do is offer the driver a twinkie. If the driver cannot resist, he is high. Arrest him. Otherwise, let them go. A ton of time and paperwork would be saved.
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Not exactly advocating legalization. She just doesn't think that's priority one for our government.
You're in a sad place where you find yourself to the right of Sarah Palin on social issues.
Not really.
With the possible exception of reversing the national healthcare scam, I, like her apparently, see this issue as a very, very low priority...along with DADT, Gay 'Marriage', and Pro-Life/Pro-Choice.
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Not really.
With the possible exception of reversing the national healthcare scam, I, like her apparently, see this issue as a very, very low priority...along with DADT, Gay 'Marriage', and Pro-Life/Pro-Choice.
I don't mind...not I advocate focussing on large grow operations like some I've seen on TV, and in my work...mainly because they're dangerous to innocent people and cops that might stumble upon them and their booby traps. Other than that MJ is, or should be very low priority, and I don't think I'd have great heartburn over it being de-criminalized. And though I don't advocate driving stoned, there's very little evidence that it greatly impairs you physically.
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I don't mind...not I advocate focussing on large grow operations like some I've seen on TV, and in my work...mainly because they're dangerous to innocent people and cops that might stumble upon them and their booby traps. Other than that MJ is, or should be very low priority, and I don't think I'd have great heartburn over it being de-criminalized. And though I don't advocate driving stoned, there's very little evidence that it greatly impairs you physically.
What does Michael Jackson have to do with any of this?
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Not really.
With the possible exception of reversing the national healthcare scam, I, like her apparently, see this issue as a very, very low priority...along with DADT, Gay 'Marriage', and Pro-Life/Pro-Choice.
I don't think you understand the implications of your own position.
1) You started this thread mockingly saying Palin's beliefs were aligned with mine. She didn't advocate legalization at all, she just said that right now we have more important use of government funds than locking people up for a dime bag.
2) You agree with this completely. I would take a more hard-nosed stance and would say that we have more importnat use of government funds than locking people up for having any amount or using marijuana at all. Like GH2001 said, it should be taxed and regulated.
3) By even having the laizzes faire attitude that "It shouldn't be a huge priority right now", you are actually supporting the argument of legalization. By legalizing marijuana, the government is allowed to shift all of it's focus and efforts completely away from the failed drug war.
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I don't think you understand the implications of your own position.
3) By even having the laizzes faire attitude that "It shouldn't be a huge priority right now", you are actually supporting the argument of legalization. By legalizing marijuana, the government is allowed to shift all of it's focus and efforts completely away from the failed drug war.
I think if she were against it, she would have said so. Thats how Palin is. I heard her statement as: "I support legalizing it to some degree OR am open to the idea of it - but right now may not be the best time to discuss it". She actually has a ton of libertarian views and is a big fan of Ron Paul.
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I don't think you understand the implications of your own position.
1) You started this thread mockingly saying Palin's beliefs were aligned with mine. She didn't advocate legalization at all, she just said that right now we have more important use of government funds than locking people up for a dime bag.
2) You agree with this completely. I would take a more hard-nosed stance and would say that we have more importnat use of government funds than locking people up for having any amount or using marijuana at all. Like GH2001 said, it should be taxed and regulated.
3) By even having the laizzes faire attitude that "It shouldn't be a huge priority right now", you are actually supporting the argument of legalization. By legalizing marijuana, the government is allowed to shift all of it's focus and efforts completely away from the failed drug war.
Chizad, I was at one time adamantly against legalizing pot; I'm still against using it. But, I think that it can be legalized in a way similar to the program that Portugal implemented which lead to the end result of lowering it's use and, in fact, discouraging it's use altogether by youth which is important in my opinion. The results of their program were vividly portrayed on a before/after chart. I think that it was really this chart (that Ogre had posted some time ago) that led to my reading into it and being convinced that it could be done.
I should state though that they did not de-criminalize it; it's still illegal to have more than a certain amount in your personal possession for your personal use; it's illegal to traffic in it (it's only 'legally' obtainable through the government and it's heavily taxed and, obviously, regulated). This latter part of their program differs from the libertarian ideals as I understand them and is probably where we are going to disagree.
A thoughtful program like this could indeed free up the police to deal with more pressing issues of crime on a local scale. In a Federal sense it could free up more resources to 'build the dang fence' and man it.
One point in posting this was perhaps to mock the libertarian position a little (not you personally) but, more importantly, demonstrate that Palin is probably not the Uber Conservative darling that she's been portrayed as by the Republican establishment elites...especially when it comes to this particular social issue. I was genuinely surprised at what she said. I did not know her position on this issue and, like many I'll warrant, assumed she was very hard lined.
Another point in posting this article, and I think that you might agree, is that the Republican candidates (and the Party establishment) are going to have to downplay the hard line positions on social issues at least in the near term. We do have bigger issues. That may mean that by default we need a laissez-faire attitude until the economy improves. It's counter-productive to waste any time on it right now unless The ONE wants to do something to generate some real tax revenue...which would really piss-off some of his supporters.
Maybe The ONE should nationalize the Pot industry.
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I don't think you understand the implications of your own position.
1) You started this thread mockingly saying Palin's beliefs were aligned with mine. She didn't advocate legalization at all, she just said that right now we have more important use of government funds than locking people up for a dime bag.
2) You agree with this completely. I would take a more hard-nosed stance and would say that we have more importnat use of government funds than locking people up for having any amount or using marijuana at all. Like GH2001 said, it should be taxed and regulated.
3) By even having the laizzes faire attitude that "It shouldn't be a huge priority right now", you are actually supporting the argument of legalization. By legalizing marijuana, the government is allowed to shift all of it's focus and efforts completely away from the failed drug war.
I don't think you understand the absurdity of your own position.
1. I just don't see a rogue, brutal police force knocking down doors and arresting people for dime bag possession. Where is this occurring? Is it really a problem? How many of your friends have actually been arrested for this level of possession?
2. I don’t completely disagree with this, but again, I’m just not finding this police-state going after your beloved weed.
3. Did you type that after a joint or something, because I’ve never seen such convoluted logic? From what I’ve seen, the drug war seems to be less about pot these days. Do you really believe that the legalization of pot will enable the government to "shift all of it's focus and efforts completely away from the failed drug war"??? Really? What does that say about all of the other illegal drug imports? Will everyone miraculously stop using, pushing and importing these other narcotics once pot is legalized? <I didn't think so.>
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I don't think you understand the absurdity of your own position.
1. I just don't see a rogue, brutal police force knocking down doors and arresting people for dime bag possession. Where is this occurring? Is it really a problem? How many of your friends have actually been arrested for this level of possession?
If you are found with less than 2 pounds of marijuana or any marijuana paraphernalia in Alabama, the penalty is up to one year in prison.
Additionally, there are cases like Webster Alexander. Google him.
He was a high school student from Moulton, Alabama who received a 26 year prison sentence after arranging a plea bargain for selling an ounce at a time, four times, to an under cover agent posing as another high school student who approached him relentlessly "begging" for a sale.
2. I don’t completely disagree with this, but again, I’m just not finding this police-state going after your beloved weed.
Ok...
3. Did you type that after a joint or something, because I’ve never seen such convoluted logic? From what I’ve seen, the drug war seems to be less about pot these days. Do you really believe that the legalization of pot will enable the government to "shift all of it's focus and efforts completely away from the failed drug war"??? Really? What does that say about all of the other illegal drug imports? Will everyone miraculously stop using, pushing and importing these other narcotics once pot is legalized? <I didn't think so.>
"Shift all of its focus and efforts completely away from the failed drug war" on pot.
This was implied by the subject of discussion. I will not waste any further time arguing semantics with you, as we've seen this song and dance a thousand times from you. Confusing the issue until you've crafted an argument I did not make by clinging desperately to small windows for wild misinterpretations.
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If you are found with less than 2 pounds of marijuana or any marijuana paraphernalia in Alabama, the penalty is up to one year in prison.
Additionally, there are cases like Webster Alexander. Google him.
He was a high school studen from Moulton, Alabama who recieved a 26 year prison sentence after arranging a plea bargain for selling an ounce at a time, four times, to an under cover agent posing as another high school student who approached him relentlessly "begging" for a sale.
Ok...
3. Did you type that after a joint or something, because I’ve never seen such convoluted logic? From what I’ve seen, the drug war seems to be less about pot these days. Do you really believe that the legalization of pot will enable the government to "shift all of it's focus and efforts completely away from the failed drug war"??? Really? What does that say about all of the other illegal drug imports? Will everyone miraculously stop using, pushing and importing these other narcotics once pot is legalized? <I didn't think so.>
"Shift all of its focus and efforts completely away from the failed drug war" on pot.
This was implied by the subject of discussion. I will not waste any further time arguing semantics with you, as we've seen this song and dance a thousand times from you. Confusing the issue until you've crafted an argument I did not make by clinging desperately to small windows for wild misinterpretations.
Now do you believe that I lean more libertarian and GarMan more authoritarian? I agree with your post above....although it looks like the quote function smoked a doobie.
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Now do you believe that I lean more libertarian and GarMan more authoritarian? I agree with your post above....although it looks like the quote function smoked a doobie.
True dat. The quote function just learned never to smoke with Jumbo.
I fixed it though.
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If you are found with less than 2 pounds of marijuana or any marijuana paraphernalia in Alabama, the penalty is up to one year in prison.
Here we go again... Less than 2 pounds... And, if I'm found with a moonshine still in my backyard, regardless of the size, I can get 30 years and a $150,000 fine.
Additionally, there are cases like Webster Alexander. Google him.
He was a high school student from Moulton, Alabama who received a 26 year prison sentence after arranging a plea bargain for selling an ounce at a time, four times, to an under cover agent posing as another high school student who approached him relentlessly "begging" for a sale.
Seems like the typical drug pusher scenario to me... We all know it's illegal to sell MJ. Perhaps, he should have considered the downside of getting caught prior to committing the crimes...
"Shift all of its focus and efforts completely away from the failed drug war" on pot.
This was implied by the subject of discussion. I will not waste any further time arguing semantics with you, as we've seen this song and dance a thousand times from you. Confusing the issue until you've crafted an argument I did not make by clinging desperately to small windows for wild misinterpretations.
Silly... Convoluted logic at best... I guess there's some mass storm-trooper police force out there solely dedicated to the war on pot. Do you really think the Mexican drug cartels would magically stop trafficking meth if MJ were legalized? Naive...
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Here we go again... Less than 2 pounds... And, if I'm found with a moonshine still in my backyard, regardless of the size, I can get 30 years and a $150,000 fine.
Less than 2 pounds. That's zero to 2 pounds. That's one ounce or less. Get it? You can be sent to jail for possession of any amount of marijuana.
Seems like the typical drug pusher scenario to me... We all know it's illegal to sell MJ. Perhaps, he should have considered the downside of getting caught prior to committing the crimes...
Yeah, this is a regular Tony Montana here. A high school kid selling dime bags deserves to get put away for 26 years...
Silly... Convoluted logic at best... I guess there's some mass storm-trooper police force out there solely dedicated to the war on pot. Do you really think the Mexican drug cartels would magically stop trafficking meth if MJ were legalized? Naive...
No.
How can you possibly construe that from anything I wrote? This is more of exactly what I'm talking about. Keep trying to spin my position until it is completely unrecognizable from anything I came close to saying. And I'm the one with "silly...convoluted logic at best..."
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Less than 2 pounds. That's zero to 2 pounds. That's one ounce or less. Get it? You can be sent to jail for possession of any amount of marijuana.
Yeah, this is a regular Tony Montana here. A high school kid selling dime bags deserves to get put away for 26 years...
No.
How can you possibly construe that from anything I wrote? This is more of exactly what I'm talking about. Keep trying to spin my position until it is completely unrecognizable from anything I came close to saying. And I'm the one with "silly...convoluted logic at best..."
Don't know about the specific case you cited, but I suspect it was some time ago, and/or more to it than what you stated.
You won't go to jail in AL for mere possession unless you have a substantial prior history. And yes, Marijuana is treated differently from other drugs as to possession. Possession for a personal use amount, is a misdemeanor. Possession of an amount for "other than personal use" is a felony. Totality of the circumstances comes in to play. If you have an ounce, in one bag with some rolling papers, it might be a personal use amount. If you have an ounce, packaged seperatly in dime bags, some scales, and a wad of money, you'll probably be charged with a felony. Possession of 2.2 pounds is trafficking. Selling is selling (distribution), and very different from use and possesson. Still rare for a small time dealer to get jail/prison time, except in the most ass backwards counties in the state.
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Still rare for a small time dealer to get jail/prison time, except in the most ass backwards counties in the state.
Read: Moulton, Alabama.
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2 lbs of pot. http://www.metacafe.com/watch/197945/2_lbs_of_marijuana_weed/ (http://www.metacafe.com/watch/197945/2_lbs_of_marijuana_weed/)
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Read: Moulton, Alabama.
I googled him...
Can only find stuff about him on "pot sites" for the most part. And in reading, learned that his sentence was reduced to 1 year in the county jail. His "26 year sentence" you mentioned was the result of two 13 year sentences run concurrently. I am sure that I am not, nor are you, getting the full story...I will try to research it more when I have time...bottom line is, this kid never served a day of his sentence beyond that which he didn in jail after arrest and making bond. He sold drugs. He got caught.
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One thing I found...it's contradictory in places...but the picture says a lot.
http://www.mpp.org/victims/webster-alexander.html (http://www.mpp.org/victims/webster-alexander.html)
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Also should be noted that it was over 8 years ago. Things change...fast on certain issues.
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Less than 2 pounds. That's zero to 2 pounds. That's one ounce or less. Get it? You can be sent to jail for possession of any amount of marijuana.
You can also be sent to jail for unpaid parking tickets.
Yeah, this is a regular Tony Montana here. A high school kid selling dime bags deserves to get put away for 26 years...
You seem to be desensitized to the criminal side of this. A high school drug pusher should get some sort of leniency? Really??? And, it looks like Webster's 26 year sentence didn't go so far, but thanks for all of the bloviated hype regarding this scumbag.
How can you possibly construe that from anything I wrote? This is more of exactly what I'm talking about. Keep trying to spin my position until it is completely unrecognizable from anything I came close to saying. And I'm the one with "silly...convoluted logic at best..."
You talk in generalized terms to spin your story. I call you out for your absurd literal statements, and I'm being unreasonable...
By legalizing marijuana, the government is allowed to shift all of it's focus and efforts completely away from the failed drug war.
Nice...
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You can also be sent to jail for unpaid parking tickets.
You seem to be desensitized to the criminal side of this. A high school drug pusher should get some sort of leniency? Really??? And, it looks like Webster's 26 year sentence didn't go so far, but thanks for all of the bloviated hype regarding this scumbag.
You talk in generalized terms to spin your story. I call you out for your absurd literal statements, and I'm being unreasonable...
Nice...
"Drug Pusher"? ROFLMFAO at the 70s lingo.
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"Drug Pusher"? ROFLMFAO at the 70s lingo.
Respect your elders... BITCH!
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http://www.boreme.com/boreme/funny-2007/fg-peter-lois-stoned-p1.php (http://www.boreme.com/boreme/funny-2007/fg-peter-lois-stoned-p1.php)