Tigers X - Number one Source to Talk Auburn Tigers Sports
Pat Dye Field => War Damn Eagle => Topic started by: Birmingham on January 26, 2010, 12:40:31 AM
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It's clear that the current Auburn staff all have a great work ethic and are committed to not being outworked. I made fun of the limo. I made fun of all the things that were easy to make fun of. I've stopped laughing. I don't think Chizik's a great coach but it's clear that he doesn't give a poop what I think and is answering his critics one 4* at a time.
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It's clear that the current Auburn staff all have a great work ethic and are committed to not being outworked. I made fun of the limo. I made fun of all the things that were easy to make fun of. I've stopped laughing. I don't think Chizik's a great coach but it's clear that he doesn't give a poop what I think and is answering his critics one 4* at a time.
Remember back in Jan. when I said that Coach Chizik put together a Hell of a recruiting staff? I think my actual statement was.."Really Good to Great Coaches that're Really Good to Great Recruiters". There were some posters, okay TWO, that didn't believe. I wonder if they believe now? Probably not, I heard that the cave, they stay in, is comfy this time of year.
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Remember back in Jan. when I said that Coach Chizik put together a Hell of a recruiting staff? I think my actual statement was.."Really Good to Great Coaches that're Really Good to Great Recruiters". There were some posters, okay TWO, that didn't believe. I wonder if they believe now? Probably not, I heard that the cave, they stay in, is comfy this time of year.
Well, when Chizik was hired, you said:
I'm hearing that the paper work has been signed by everyone except for Gouge....Chizik will be coming to Auburn. If this is True.....The Auburn fanbase will Riot in Auburn and I'll be at the front of the pack. Get ready to see some UAB size attendances...first come, first serve. Also, TPTB just waved the white flag for the upcoming Ironbowls and recruiting. Hindenburg II
Soooo, which one do you want us to go with?
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Well, when Chizik was hired, you said:
Soooo, which one do you want us to go with?
hahahahahahahaha.......damn...
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Ron Zook second coming
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Ron Zook second coming
Does that mean we hire a slam-dunk coach in two years, followed by an MNC? Cool!
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Well, when Chizik was hired, you said:
Soooo, which one do you want us to go with?
Damn........
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I'm sure you can find similar quotes from me around that time. I didn't get it at the time. It didn't take long at all for him to win me over. Like a couple of weeks. I wrote an article on the front page of this site when I came around. Since that day, he hasn't stopped impressing more and more every day. Like Birmingham, I have the cognitive ability to recognize facts and change my opinion based upon them.
Some people prefer to shut themselves off to outside stimuli so as to appear principled. Really they just appear uninformed and stubborn. Not naming names but
Ron Zook second coming
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Ron Zook second coming
Ron Zook was a great as a recruiter, so I get that part. However, Ron Zook didn't have the staff Chizik has put together, and he was horrible at Florida, and is horrible at Illinois. He benefited one one good year from Juice Williams, Arrelious Benn, and the kid playing for the Steelers now. Chizik's staff does more of the recruiting that Chizik does, where Ron Zook does a lot of his own. It's two completely different situations and places.
There are a lot of great recruiters, and Ron Zook would be up there with them, but that's where the comparisons stop. You're getting more and more cynical, and it's either blinding you, or exposing how little you actually know about anything.
I'm sure you can find similar quotes from me around that time. I didn't get it at the time. It didn't take long at all for him to win me over. Like a couple of weeks. I write an article on the front page of this site when I came around. Since that day, he hasn't stopped impressing more and more every day. Like Birmingham, I have the cognitive ability to recognize facts and change my opinion based upon them.
Some people prefer to shut themselves off to outside stimuli so as to appear principled. Really they just appear uninformed and stubborn. Not naming names but
This.
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I'm sure you can find similar quotes from me around that time. I didn't get it at the time. It didn't take long at all for him to win me over. Like a couple of weeks. I write an article on the front page of this site when I came around. Since that day, he hasn't stopped impressing more and more every day. Like Birmingham, I have the cognitive ability to recognize facts and change my opinion based upon them.
Some people prefer to shut themselves off to outside stimuli so as to appear principled. Really they just appear uninformed and stubborn. Not naming names but
And you're not going around telling people "See, I told you so!" either, so I have no issue here.
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And you're not going around telling people "See, I told you so!" either, so I have no issue here.
Just maybe he wasn't pointing at you exclusively with everything said either....
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Does that mean we hire a slam-dunk coach in two years, followed by an MNC? Cool!
That's a possibility.
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Just maybe he wasn't pointing at you exclusively with everything said either....
I didn't assume that he was.
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Some people prefer to shut themselves off to outside stimuli so as to appear principled. Really they just appear uninformed and stubborn. Not naming names but
And some people can't resist the urge to be a dick whenever possible. Thanks, Biff.
(http://www.bobcesca.com/images/biff_tannen.jpg)
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And some people can't resist the urge to be a dick whenever possible. Thanks, Biff.
(http://www.bobcesca.com/images/biff_tannen.jpg)
Agreed, so why don't you make like a tree...... and get out of here.
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And some people can't resist the urge to be a dick whenever possible. Thanks, Biff.
(http://www.bobcesca.com/images/biff_tannen.jpg)
I know a guy like that that posts here.
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I was shocked when Chizik was hired. It was the kind of thing that would ruin my day out of nowhere. I would be going along through a day, doing fine, then remember we just hired Chizik, and I would get chest pains.
That lasted a few days. Then I used my brain, and not my heart, because honestly, my heart had no business feeling at this point...it didn't have anything to really go on. I realized how many great hires had turned poopty over the years. I remembered how many "who the hell is that" hires had turned golden.
Many have said how good of a hire Charlie Strong is for Louisville. Many even wanted him to get a shot at Auburn. Isn't he Ron Zook? I mean, Zook did a good job at Florida as an assistant coach. Zook only looks like a failure of a head coach hire NOW that we know better. We deem Strong a good head coach hire....thing is, as of NOW, we don't know any better.
When Mike Bellotti named Chip Kelly offensive coordinator, and soon named him the head-coach-in-waiting....people thought, "who the hell is this guy?". He'd been at New Hampshire for the previous 13 years. Was he never good enough to get a better job than New Hampshire for 13 years? And now he was worthy of being head coach in the Pac 10? He must be in over his head right? First year....10-3, #11 final AP ranking.
Anyway, I came to the conclusion that since I didn't feel like I had enough information to just assume with any degree of certainty that Chizik had a 90% or better chance of guaranteed failure, then I would take my ultimate decision about him step by step. As he did and didn't do certain things, I would begin shaping my opinion of his performance as the head coach of Auburn's football program.
First off, I would not judge his ability based on Iowa State, as it was as different as Texas A&M and Alabama was for Gene Stallings (7 years at each school....27 wins at A&M, 70 wins at Alabama). Secondly, I would not judge his ability based on what "coach speak" he shared with the media and how he looked in front of the camera....after all, it's the media, and maybe he's not an award winning orator (which is not what we hired him to be), or maybe he doesn't like being candid with the media until they've earned his trust. Who knows? Who cares.
So to me, we are still just in the midst of the writing of the Chizik era at Auburn. It hasn't been concluded yet. I assume this will be at least a 6 chapter book....two chapters per year, one is recruiting, one is on-field results. Chapter 1 was pretty good, as he added most of the top recruits that we had in our 2009 class (8 of the top 13). Chapter 2 was encouraging, as we improved in a lot of areas over last year. After all, it was the first year for all of these players and coaches to work together. Chapter 3 is shaping up to be excellent, we can all see that on any recruiting service we choose to endorse.
However, it's only chapter 3. We can easily assume that we are no more than half way through, at best (assuming he's here through the 2011 season). The rest of the book on him is unwritten, and I will treat my opinion on him as such. Does the book look pretty good so far? I would say that it has gotten better by the chapter, and at this point, is an encouraging read. Will it continue to get better? I'll just keep reading, and with every new page of information, I will continue to shape my opinion accordingly. The final three chapters could be dreadful. Or, it could turn out to be a 20 chapter novel that ends up being the best volume in the 25 volume set that is the Auburn Coaching library.
What kind of book reviewer, regardless of how much they dislike the cover design, stops and writes his entire review after only reading the first three chapters?
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I was shocked when Chizik was hired. It was the kind of thing that would ruin my day out of nowhere. I would be going along through a day, doing fine, then remember we just hired Chizik, and I would get chest pains.
That lasted a few days. Then I used my brain, and not my heart, because honestly, my heart had no business feeling at this point...it didn't have anything to really go on. I realized how many great hires had turned poopty over the years. I remembered how many "who the hell is that" hires had turned golden.
Many have said how good of a hire Charlie Strong is for Louisville. Many even wanted him to get a shot at Auburn. Isn't he Ron Zook? I mean, Zook did a good job at Florida. Zook only looks like a failure of a hire NOW that we know better. We deem Strong a good hire....as of NOW, we don't know any better.
When Mike Bellotti named Chip Kelly offensive coordinator, and soon named him the head-coach-in-waiting....people thought, "who the hell is this guy?". He'd been at New Hampshire for the previous 13 years. Was he never good enough to get a better job than New Hampshire for 13 years? And now he was worthy of being head coach in the Pac 10?
Anyway, I came to the conclusion that since I didn't feel like I had enough information to assume he was a 90% or better guaranteed failure, then I would take my ultimate decision about him step by step, as he did and didn't do certain things.
I would not judge his ability based on Iowa State, as it was as different as Texas A&M and Alabama was for Gene Stallings (7 years at each school....27 wins at A&M, 70 wins at Alabama). I would not judge his ability based on what "coach speak" he shared with the media....after all, it's the media, and maybe he's not an award winning orator (which is not what we hired him to be).
So to me, we are still just in the midst of the writing of the Chizik era at Auburn. It hasn't been concluded yet. I assume this will be at least a 6 chapter book....two chapters per year, one is recruiting, one is on-field results. Chapter 1 was pretty good, as he added most of the top recruits that we had in our 2009 class. Chapter 2 was encouraging, as we improved in a lot of areas over last year, and it was the first year for all of these players and coaches to be together. Chapter 3 is shaping up to be excellent, we can all see that.
However, it's chapter 3. We can easily assume that we are no more than half way through, at best. The rest of the book on him is unwritten, and I will treat my opinion on him as such. Does the book look pretty good so far? I would say that it has gotten better by the chapter. Will it continue to get better? I'll just keep reading, and with every new page of information, I will continue to shape my opinion accordingly. What kind of book reviewer stops and writes his entire review after only reading the first three chapters?
Five star post. In fact, we've been dry on front page material, and I'd say this certainly qualifies.
Although, I would fix this.
However, it's chapter 3. We can easily assume that we are no more than half way through, at bestworst.
I hope he stays with us more than two seasons.
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Five star post. In fact, we've been dry on front page material, and I'd say this certainly qualifies.
Although, I would fix this.I hope he stays with us more than two seasons.
I was implying three seasons. Recruiting of 09 is chapter 1. Season of 2011 would be chapter 6.
Chapter 1 - Recruiting 2009 - Added 8 of the top 13 recruits in roughly 6 weeks on the job.
Chapter 2 - Season 2010 - 8-5, Outback Bowl. 6-8 wins was on the radar...finished at the high end of expectations.
Chapter 3 - Recruiting 2010 - Currently looking at a Top 5 class, but more importantly addresses our biggest needs: Offensive line, linebackers, defensive line (incomplete), immediate QB help, restocking the running backs.
Chapter 4 - Season 2010 -
Chapter 5 - Recruiting 2011 -
Chapter 6 - Season 2011 -
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I know a guy like that that posts here.
Good for you. Self-awareness is the first step.
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I was implying three seasons. Recruiting of 09 is chapter 1. Season of 2011 would be chapter 6.
Chapter 1 - Recruiting 2009 - Added 8 of the top 13 recruits in roughly 6 weeks on the job.
Chapter 2 - Season 2010 - 8-5, Outback Bowl. 6-8 wins was on the radar...finished at the high end of expectations.
Chapter 3 - Recruiting 2010 - Currently looking at a Top 5 class, but more importantly addresses our biggest needs: Offensive line, linebackers, defensive line (incomplete), immediate QB help, restocking the running backs.
Chapter 4 - Season 2010 -
Chapter 5 - Recruiting 2011 -
Chapter 6 - Season 2011 -
Right. I meant two more seasons.
Just saying, with the way the first half has played out, I'm hoping we're not actually halfway through yet.
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I was shocked when Chizik was hired. It was the kind of thing that would ruin my day out of nowhere. I would be going along through a day, doing fine, then remember we just hired Chizik, and I would get chest pains.
That lasted a few days. Then I used my brain, and not my heart, because honestly, my heart had no business feeling at this point...it didn't have anything to really go on. I realized how many great hires had turned poopty over the years. I remembered how many "who the hell is that" hires had turned golden.
Many have said how good of a hire Charlie Strong is for Louisville. Many even wanted him to get a shot at Auburn. Isn't he Ron Zook? I mean, Zook did a good job at Florida as an assistant coach. Zook only looks like a failure of a head coach hire NOW that we know better. We deem Strong a good head coach hire....thing is, as of NOW, we don't know any better.
When Mike Bellotti named Chip Kelly offensive coordinator, and soon named him the head-coach-in-waiting....people thought, "who the hell is this guy?". He'd been at New Hampshire for the previous 13 years. Was he never good enough to get a better job than New Hampshire for 13 years? And now he was worthy of being head coach in the Pac 10? He must be in over his head right? First year....10-3, #11 final AP ranking.
Anyway, I came to the conclusion that since I didn't feel like I had enough information to just assume with any degree of certainty that Chizik had a 90% or better chance of guaranteed failure, then I would take my ultimate decision about him step by step. As he did and didn't do certain things, I would begin shaping my opinion of his performance as the head coach of Auburn's football program.
First off, I would not judge his ability based on Iowa State, as it was as different as Texas A&M and Alabama was for Gene Stallings (7 years at each school....27 wins at A&M, 70 wins at Alabama). Secondly, I would not judge his ability based on what "coach speak" he shared with the media and how he looked in front of the camera....after all, it's the media, and maybe he's not an award winning orator (which is not what we hired him to be), or maybe he doesn't like being candid with the media until they've earned his trust. Who knows? Who cares.
So to me, we are still just in the midst of the writing of the Chizik era at Auburn. It hasn't been concluded yet. I assume this will be at least a 6 chapter book....two chapters per year, one is recruiting, one is on-field results. Chapter 1 was pretty good, as he added most of the top recruits that we had in our 2009 class (8 of the top 13). Chapter 2 was encouraging, as we improved in a lot of areas over last year. After all, it was the first year for all of these players and coaches to work together. Chapter 3 is shaping up to be excellent, we can all see that on any recruiting service we choose to endorse.
However, it's only chapter 3. We can easily assume that we are no more than half way through, at best (assuming he's here through the 2011 season). The rest of the book on him is unwritten, and I will treat my opinion on him as such. Does the book look pretty good so far? I would say that it has gotten better by the chapter, and at this point, is an encouraging read. Will it continue to get better? I'll just keep reading, and with every new page of information, I will continue to shape my opinion accordingly. The final three chapters could be dreadful. Or, it could turn out to be a 20 chapter novel that ends up being the best volume in the 25 volume set that is the Auburn Coaching library.
What kind of book reviewer, regardless of how much they dislike the cover design, stops and writes his entire review after only reading the first three chapters?
Nice JA. I about 98% agree with your post. I remember spitting up in my mouth for 24 hours everytime I ate when Chiz was hired. I was mad as hell. I think the shock was mainly that no one so it coming. He wasnt even in the discussion until the last 24 hours before he was hired. I am still not 100% sold on him as a coach, but I am impressed with the staff and the recruiting. The coaching was BETTER than I thought it would be the first year. I can only honestly say we got out coached in 2 games (Ky and Arky). Sorry but LSU and GA just "out-athleted" us.
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I was shocked when Chizik was hired. It was the kind of thing that would ruin my day out of nowhere. I would be going along through a day, doing fine, then remember we just hired Chizik, and I would get chest pains.
That lasted a few days. Then I used my brain, and not my heart, because honestly, my heart had no business feeling at this point...it didn't have anything to really go on. I realized how many great hires had turned poopty over the years. I remembered how many "who the hell is that" hires had turned golden.
There is nothing wrong with having an opinion that changes over time as progress warrants a change.
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Nice JA. I about 98% agree with your post. I remember spitting up in my mouth for 24 hours everytime I ate when Chiz was hired. I was mad as hell. I think the shock was mainly that no one so it coming. He wasnt even in the discussion until the last 24 hours before he was hired. I am still not 100% sold on him as a coach, but I am impressed with the staff and the recruiting. The coaching was BETTER than I thought it would be the first year. I can only honestly say we got out coached in 2 games (Ky and Arky). Sorry but LSU and GA just "out-athleted" us.
Notice the games you listed though....curiously three of them are when Chris Todd fired up the flux capacitor and went back to 2008 for some reason. His career passer rating of 133.7 was put on the shelf while a passer rating of 77 showed up for Kentucky, Arkansas, and LSU. I would love to say those were the three best pass defenses we faced, but not one of them was in the top 3.
So coaching played a role, no doubt. But Todd was just horrible in those games and we weren't able to adjust or make anything work with him being so worthless.
To me, Georgia was a mixed bag. He played well at times, went cold for a while, but did lead us back and put the ball on Fannin's numbers at the goal line....Fannin just couldn't hold on to it. Aside from that, the Georgia game was the main one in which I felt depth finally hurt. We couldn't stop them from running the ball in the 4th quarter. Bynes and Stevens had played every meaningful snap for 10 straight games...they were worn out.
I'll add too that I think Georgia was hitting their "rushing attack" stride in that game. They ran for 742 yards in the three games following us.
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Notice the games you listed though....curiously three of them are when Chris Todd fired up the flux capacitor and went back to 2008 for some reason. His career passer rating of 133.7 was put on the shelf while a passer rating of 77 showed up for Kentucky, Arkansas, and LSU. I would love to say those were the three best pass defenses we faced, but they none of them were in the top 3.
So coaching played a role, no doubt. But Todd was just horrible in those games and we weren't able to adjust or make anything work with him being so worthless.
To me, Georgia was a mixed bag. He played well at times, went cold for a while, but did lead us back and put the ball on Fannin's numbers at the goal line....Fannin just couldn't hold on to it. Aside from that, the Georgia game was the main one in which I felt depth finally hurt. We couldn't stop them from running the ball in the 4th quarter. Bynes and Stevens had played every meaningful snap for 10 straight games...they were worn out.
I'll add too that I think Georgia was hitting their "rushing attack" stride in that game. They ran for 742 yards in the three games following us.
Martinez also coached the game of his life (for his job). UGA's D made huge adjustments and had the athletes to do it.
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I was shocked when Chizik was hired. It was the kind of thing that would ruin my day out of nowhere. I would be going along through a day, doing fine, then remember we just hired Chizik, and I would get chest pains.
That lasted a few days. Then I used my brain, and not my heart, because honestly, my heart had no business feeling at this point...it didn't have anything to really go on. I realized how many great hires had turned poopty over the years. I remembered how many "who the hell is that" hires had turned golden.
Many have said how good of a hire Charlie Strong is for Louisville. Many even wanted him to get a shot at Auburn. Isn't he Ron Zook? I mean, Zook did a good job at Florida as an assistant coach. Zook only looks like a failure of a head coach hire NOW that we know better. We deem Strong a good head coach hire....thing is, as of NOW, we don't know any better.
When Mike Bellotti named Chip Kelly offensive coordinator, and soon named him the head-coach-in-waiting....people thought, "who the hell is this guy?". He'd been at New Hampshire for the previous 13 years. Was he never good enough to get a better job than New Hampshire for 13 years? And now he was worthy of being head coach in the Pac 10? He must be in over his head right? First year....10-3, #11 final AP ranking.
Anyway, I came to the conclusion that since I didn't feel like I had enough information to just assume with any degree of certainty that Chizik had a 90% or better chance of guaranteed failure, then I would take my ultimate decision about him step by step. As he did and didn't do certain things, I would begin shaping my opinion of his performance as the head coach of Auburn's football program.
First off, I would not judge his ability based on Iowa State, as it was as different as Texas A&M and Alabama was for Gene Stallings (7 years at each school....27 wins at A&M, 70 wins at Alabama). Secondly, I would not judge his ability based on what "coach speak" he shared with the media and how he looked in front of the camera....after all, it's the media, and maybe he's not an award winning orator (which is not what we hired him to be), or maybe he doesn't like being candid with the media until they've earned his trust. Who knows? Who cares.
So to me, we are still just in the midst of the writing of the Chizik era at Auburn. It hasn't been concluded yet. I assume this will be at least a 6 chapter book....two chapters per year, one is recruiting, one is on-field results. Chapter 1 was pretty good, as he added most of the top recruits that we had in our 2009 class (8 of the top 13). Chapter 2 was encouraging, as we improved in a lot of areas over last year. After all, it was the first year for all of these players and coaches to work together. Chapter 3 is shaping up to be excellent, we can all see that on any recruiting service we choose to endorse.
However, it's only chapter 3. We can easily assume that we are no more than half way through, at best (assuming he's here through the 2011 season). The rest of the book on him is unwritten, and I will treat my opinion on him as such. Does the book look pretty good so far? I would say that it has gotten better by the chapter, and at this point, is an encouraging read. Will it continue to get better? I'll just keep reading, and with every new page of information, I will continue to shape my opinion accordingly. The final three chapters could be dreadful. Or, it could turn out to be a 20 chapter novel that ends up being the best volume in the 25 volume set that is the Auburn Coaching library.
What kind of book reviewer, regardless of how much they dislike the cover design, stops and writes his entire review after only reading the first three chapters?
Outstanding. Scary that some people seem to think this way of thinking is delusional.
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Outstanding. Scary that some people seem to think this way of thinking is delusional.
Truth is, I don't know of anyone on here that would go to "delusional" about it. Some may not agree with the fact that I started my opinion of him at square one, ground zero, and let him begin to go negative or positive from there.
Some may start their opinion on him at -10, and make him climb out of the "negatives" before he ventures into the "positives". They would base this mostly on his time at Iowa State and just an overall opinion of him gathered by observing him.
As I mentioned, based on things like "good hires gone bad" and "questionable hires turned good", I let him start anew here at Auburn.
Not everyone was willing to do that...and that's okay with me. Keeping him at -10 no matter what they observe, however, is delusional. But I don't think anyone outside of the Weasel does that.
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There is nothing wrong with having an opinion that changes over time as progress warrants a change.
I'm not sure this is true. I've been told by several other Auburn fans (including some here) that I am not "allowed" to change my mind as the situation changes. I should have either been sold out from the beginning they say.
Bama fans are no different.
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I'm not sure this is true. I've been told by several other Auburn fans (including some here) that I am not "allowed" to change my mind as the situation changes. I should have either been sold out from the beginning they say.
Bama fans are no different.
Just for the record this site only this year gave up the rights to firegenechiziknow.com
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I have been told exactly the opposite of that by "true Auburn fans" all over the southeast. Because I have not been rah rah for Chizik since the early times, I cannot decide to support him now. I am bound by what I said at one time no matter how things change.
Bama fans are the same way, RWS. You know this.
Have you really decided to support him now though?
It's a side of you we don't see much of I guess, or at least it isn't very clear when you put it out there. I don't think anyone would expect you act like we've "arrived" under Chizik (I certainly don't feel that way either). But I don't often get from you that you even feel we're at least headed in the right direction either. So maybe it seems to some that you haven't really budged much from the way most of us felt back in those first few days.
And again, as I've said before, maybe you just find yourself trying to temper opinions that you seem are running wild and out of control on the positive side. Maybe that's why we don't see the "support" side often?
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Have you really decided to support him now though?
I support Auburn in spite of who the coach is or isn't. That has never changed in spite of popular opinion. My judgments on Chizik and co. evolve/devolve as they do.
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I'm not sure this is true. I've been told by several other Auburn fans (including some here) that I am not "allowed" to change my mind as the situation changes. I should have either been sold out from the beginning they say.
Bama fans are no different.
Since you edited, I have a different response.
Those fans are stupid.
Tell them to put their hand in a pot of water. Then turn the stove on high. Then, when the water starts boiling, tell them to leave their hand in there based on being "sold out form the beginning". Don't change their minds as the situation changes.
Idiots.
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I support Auburn in spite of who the coach is or isn't. That has never changed in spite of popular opinion. My judgments on Chizik and co. evolve/devolve as they do.
As they should.
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Chopper, damn. You never fucking get it.
As for the rest... Well thought out, perfectly reasoned.
Maybe you haven't noticed but since the WVU game or so, I stick mainly to the "it's too early to plant the victory flag" positon. Most of my "negativity" comes in response to the premature "haha you stupid fuck, Chizik is super awesome" type posts or the absurdly ridiculous and semi-meritless expectations some have.
Do I think Chizik is the long term answer? No. I don't. But he met expectations on the field and is working well in recruiting. That buys him more time to ultimately succeed or fail.
Make all the excuses you want but that was the worst defense Auburn has ever fielded. That's on him. It concerns me that if Malzahn decides to leave that the offense could be in similar straits. If all Chizik is capable of doing is hiring good assistants and paying them a ton of money, couldn't you, or I or Prow...no, let's not get carried away. But couldn't most of us do the same?
The hire itself will forever suck. It was a dark moment. If it works out long-term it will be because Chizik overcame it not because Jacobs was some sage.
I'm not sold on Chizik by any stretch. But I no longer want to lynch him. Nor do I think it's time to build monuments in his anticipated honor as a few seem bound to do.
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Chopper, damn. You never phuking get it.
As for the rest... Well thought out, perfectly reasoned.
Maybe you haven't noticed but since the WVU game or so, I stick mainly to the "it's too early to plant the victory flag" positon. Most of my "negativity" comes in response to the premature "haha you stupid phuk, Chizik is super awesome" type posts or the absurdly ridiculous and semi-meritless expectations some have.
Do I think Chizik is the long term answer? No. I don't. But he met expectations on the field and is working well in recruiting. That buys him more time to ultimately succeed or fail.
Make all the excuses you want but that was the worst defense Auburn has ever fielded. That's on him. It concerns me that if Malzahn decides to leave that the offense could be in similar straits. If all Chizik is capable of doing is hiring good assistants and paying them a ton of money, couldn't you, or I or Prow...no, let's not get carried away. But couldn't most of us do the same?
The hire itself will forever suck. It was a dark moment. If it works out long-term it will be because Chizik overcame it not because Jacobs was some sage.
I'm not sold on Chizik by any stretch. But I no longer want to lynch him. Nor do I think it's time to build monuments in his anticipated honor as a few seem bound to do.
Agree Kaos. Remember - those fans (both sides) are the fringe. Don't hold it against Chizik if some dumbass wants to make him a god.
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Understood.
Laughable that the fringe latched on to JAD's rational post as if it represented their position.
He said he had optimism and was encouraged enough to reserve opinion as things played out. That's a FAR cry cro
"Greatest recruiting class EVAR!!!11", "unprecedented success" and "we will be so much better without our leadi g offensive weapons" delusional yada yada against which I advise caution.
Never even said it won't happen as a few frothers try to claim. Only that a wholesale replacement is unlikely to be the utopian plug and play some envision.
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Chopper, damn. You never phuking get it.
As for the rest... Well thought out, perfectly reasoned.
Maybe you haven't noticed but since the WVU game or so, I stick mainly to the "it's too early to plant the victory flag" positon. Most of my "negativity" comes in response to the premature "haha you stupid phuk, Chizik is super awesome" type posts or the absurdly ridiculous and semi-meritless expectations some have.
Do I think Chizik is the long term answer? No. I don't. But he met expectations on the field and is working well in recruiting. That buys him more time to ultimately succeed or fail.
Make all the excuses you want but that was the worst defense Auburn has ever fielded. That's on him. It concerns me that if Malzahn decides to leave that the offense could be in similar straits. If all Chizik is capable of doing is hiring good assistants and paying them a ton of money, couldn't you, or I or Prow...no, let's not get carried away. But couldn't most of us do the same?
The hire itself will forever suck. It was a dark moment. If it works out long-term it will be because Chizik overcame it not because Jacobs was some sage.
I'm not sold on Chizik by any stretch. But I no longer want to lynch him. Nor do I think it's time to build monuments in his anticipated honor as a few seem bound to do.
You make a good point about the assembling of quality coaches. And the thought of Malzahn leaving gets me back to those chest pains. Without the offense this year, we may have won 2-3 games.
But I'm going to go a step in the other direction and give some credit to Chizik for making it all work pretty well. Anyone can make the hires and hand over the paychecks (as you noted), but it does take something to earn the respect of all those you brought in to follow your leadership. It does take some vision and well thought out communication (a blue print, if you will :poke: ) to get everyone on the same page and not let it all fall apart as time goes on.
Remember, aside from Trooper and Luper, these guys were all new to each other. To bring in different guys from different backgrounds that have all learned their trade from different people, and to get them all cooperating and working seemingly well together is impressive...
....which leads me to saying Chizik is impressive...which I hesitate to do. But hey, maybe it's time I get over the hesitation and say what my logic is leading me to...the job of making all the parts work together has been impressive, and that has to be credited to the head man.
And while it has been impressive (or a surprise), I won't be brimming with confidence until some of these assistants disappear to other jobs and Chizik fills the holes. If he can do that over time, and keep things going....we may have something to be confident in. Until then, the confidence factor remains in limbo.
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Impressive? No.
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Impressive? No.
Not impressive maybe but better than I thought - 2009 season anyway. And thats usually never bad. Recruiting is beyond what I thought it would be. I would say the recruiting is impressive, no doubt.
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Impressive? No.
(note, this isn't to describe the entire season as a whole, but only the aspect of the unity the staff and team seemed to achieve very quickly and maintain throughout the season).
I think taking a bunch of football coaches (headstrong, opinionated, passionate) and getting them all on the same page is difficult.
Don't forget, one thing that was predicted of Chizik is that when things get hectic or stressful, he and his sideline were going to look unorganized and confused (because he was totally inept at holding it all together). None of that happened. In fact, when Mississippi State rattled off 14 or 21 points, whatever it was, there was total calm. No finger pointing. No panic. Nothing. Not only was that unexpected, it's a difficult thing to pull off.
When I see someone do something that is difficult and do it well, I think it's impressive. I think taking a group of men that have never worked together, and taking a group of 80 kids reeling from the disaster of 2008, and bringing them all together was a daunting task. And I think he did a very good job of it. Ergo, I'm impressed. (with that aspect)
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Understood.
Laughable that the fringe latched on to JAD's rational post as if it represented their position.
He said he had optimism and was encouraged enough to reserve opinion as things played out. That's a FAR cry cro
"Greatest recruiting class EVAR!!!11", "unprecedented success" and "we will be so much better without our leadi g offensive weapons" delusional yada yada against which I advise caution.
Never even said it won't happen as a few frothers try to claim. Only that a wholesale replacement is unlikely to be the utopian plug and play some envision.
Whatever, dude.
First of all, JAD has said exactly the same things Chopper, Prowler, and myself have been ridiculed by you for saying, although much better articulated.
As for the other arguments you're throwing in, I doubt JAD would disagree. No, he wouldn't word it "Greatest recruiting class EVAR!!!11", but of course, neither did anyone else. A week before signing day, this class appears to be an unprecedented success. Name a class that was better on paper at the time of Signing day. We have more 5*s in this class than we have had total since I was in high school.
And you've never said what won't happen? That we will likely show improvement next year? If you never said that, then what the fuck did you drag the other thread 6 pages out over?
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Chopper, damn. You never fucking get it.
As for the rest... Well thought out, perfectly reasoned.
Maybe you haven't noticed but since the WVU game or so, I stick mainly to the "it's too early to plant the victory flag" positon. Most of my "negativity" comes in response to the premature "haha you stupid fuck, Chizik is super awesome" type posts or the absurdly ridiculous and semi-meritless expectations some have.
Do I think Chizik is the long term answer? No. I don't. But he met expectations on the field and is working well in recruiting. That buys him more time to ultimately succeed or fail.
Make all the excuses you want but that was the worst defense Auburn has ever fielded. That's on him. It concerns me that if Malzahn decides to leave that the offense could be in similar straits. If all Chizik is capable of doing is hiring good assistants and paying them a ton of money, couldn't you, or I or Prow...no, let's not get carried away. But couldn't most of us do the same?
The hire itself will forever suck. It was a dark moment. If it works out long-term it will be because Chizik overcame it not because Jacobs was some sage.
I'm not sold on Chizik by any stretch. But I no longer want to lynch him. Nor do I think it's time to build monuments in his anticipated honor as a few seem bound to do.
Good lord. I'm constantly amazed at your ability to always, no matter what is EVER said, stick me in the "CHIZIK IS THE FUCKING BEST EVER" crowd.
I agreed with JAD's post because I've always taken the "wait and see" approach with Chizik. Something you made fun of me for constantly for before and during this last year. Now you're okay with it and say that you've taken this approach also??. BULL FUCKING SHIT. I've NEVER taken the hardline approach on this one way or the other. You called this an impending "Hindenburg". Adjust your crosshairs and straighten your shit out.
NOBODY here is about to build shit in his honor. That is something you are COMPLETELY making up. If he pulls a great recruiting class, as it seems he's doing, he deserves some credit. It doesn't mean that people are saying his face should be permanently etched into the bricks at Jordan-Hare. No wonder you get so pissed. It's because you manufacture this horseshit and then get absolutely fucking looney about it. That's YOUR fault. Not ours.
People agree with your reasoning, and your opinions on the subject matter. Give the constant fucking harrassment a rest.
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Whatever, dude.
First of all, JAD has said exactly the same things Chopper, Prowler, and myself have been ridiculed by you for saying, although much better articulated.
As for the other arguments you're throwing in, I doubt JAD would disagree. No, he wouldn't word it "Greatest recruiting class EVAR!!!11", but of course, neither did anyone else. A week before signing day, this class appears to be an unprecedented success. Name a class that was better on paper at the time of Signing day. We have more 5*s in this class than we have had total since I was in high school.
And you've never said what won't happen? That we will likely show improvement next year? If you never said that, then what the fuck did you drag the other thread 6 pages out over?
:rofl:
The three amigos! Nice to see you accept your role, Sancho.
And no, what he said was nothing like what the three of you say -- or actually the two of them say and then you blindly defend (thus Sancho).
Maybe you should articulate better. And use different words. Ones that have different meanings.
And no, I never said it won't happen, only that to expect it to happen flies in the face of rational thinking and is asking a lot. Anything can happen, you know that. Kodi Burns could win the Heisman. Phillip Pierre-Louis could start at defensive end. Byron Isom could be the leading receiver. But you have to look at the situation, make RATIONAL assessments (not wishful-thinking, exception-filled bullshit) and manage expectations without predjudice.
Hope is one thing. Expectations are another.
I hope Auburn wins 14 football games next year. I don't expect that due to a number of variables, not the least of which is replacing Tate (will be harder than you anticipate) as well as -- amazingly -- replacing Todd.
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AWK calls dibs on playing Dulcinea.......
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:rofl:
The three amigos! Nice to see you accept your role, Sancho.
And no, what he said was nothing like what the three of you say -- or actually the two of them say and then you blindly defend (thus Sancho).
Maybe you should articulate better. And use different words. Ones that have different meanings.
And no, I never said it won't happen, only that to expect it to happen flies in the face of rational thinking and is asking a lot. Anything can happen, you know that. Kodi Burns could win the Heisman. Phillip Pierre-Louis could start at defensive end. Byron Isom could be the leading receiver. But you have to look at the situation, make RATIONAL assessments (not wishful-thinking, exception-filled bullshit) and manage expectations without predjudice.
Hope is one thing. Expectations are another.
I hope Auburn wins 14 football games next year. I don't expect that due to a number of variables, not the least of which is replacing Tate (will be harder than you anticipate) as well as -- amazingly -- replacing Todd.
"Hindenburg". You were sure of it. You constantly described in detail why this was the worst hire in the history of Auburn. You were/ are absolutely sure that Chizik was/ is going to ruin Auburn over the course of several years. This is why you laughing and talking your shit makes you a fucking douche beyond "historical precendent". It's an absolute "trend" of yours to mock and derail thread after thread after thread to do nothing but take cheap shots and stir up bullshit.
Nobody here has done ANYTHING but give opinions on their own expectations, just like you have. Not a fucking thing wrong with that. No matter if you like how it's delivered or not.
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Good lord. I'm constantly amazed at your ability to always, no matter what is EVER said, stick me in the "CHIZIK IS THE FUCKING BEST EVER" crowd.
*sigh*
What you didn't get is that your attempt to postulate that Auburn would be better off with random, as-yet-unnamed replacements for Ben Tate and Chris Todd, which was the source of your argument being termed delusional, had no relation, comparison or parallel to the position posted in this thread.
And yet somehow you made that completely illogical leap.
Thus... You NEVER get it. Again.
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"Hindenburg". You were sure of it. You constantly described in detail why this was the worst hire in the history of Auburn. You were/ are absolutely sure that Chizik was/ is going to ruin Auburn over the course of several years. This is why you laughing and talking your shit makes you a fucking douche beyond "historical precendent". It's an absolute "trend" of yours to mock and derail thread after thread after thread to do nothing but take cheap shots and stir up bullshit.
Nobody here has done ANYTHING but give opinions on their own expectations, just like you have. Not a fucking thing wrong with that. No matter if you like how it's delivered or not.
Unreal.
No cheap shots. I'm discussing the point and the point only (one of which is that you don't understand the argument, so that's fair). I'm sorry if YOU don't like how it's delivered.
As for the Hindenburg? I bet the passengers were some happy fucks when it sailed quietly out of Frankfurt. I bet they enjoyed sipping their champagne and watching the ocean roll by. It was a long flight.
He may still crash and burn. I'm damn sure not ready to declare the flight a fucking success when it's barely left the port. You can. I won't.
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AWK calls dibs on playing Dulcinea.......
And I would play it if we win 14 games next year.
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Unreal.
No cheap shots. I'm discussing the point and the point only (one of which is that you don't understand the argument, so that's fair). I'm sorry if YOU don't like how it's delivered.
As for the Hindenburg? I bet the passengers were some happy fucks when it sailed quietly out of Frankfurt. I bet they enjoyed sipping their champagne and watching the ocean roll by. It was a long flight.
He may still crash and burn. I'm damn sure not ready to declare the flight a fucking success when it's barely left the port. You can. I won't.
You may be right. You may be wrong. Nobody has claimed success. Yet you feel obligated to constantly act as if people (myself included) are. It's incorrect. It's false. It's a lie.
Fuck, I thought it was part of the function of a message board to talk about your opinions, hopes, thoughts, stories, news, etc...
If people can't do that, then what's the point? Why bother doing any of this? Why do you not understand this?
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You may be right. You may be wrong. Nobody has claimed success. Yet you feel obligated to constantly act as if people (myself included) are. It's incorrect. It's false. It's a lie.
Fuck, I thought it was part of the function of a message board to talk about your opinions, hopes, thoughts, stories, news, etc...
If people can't do that, then what's the point? Why bother doing any of this? Why do you not understand this?
Hmmmm. I could ask the same question.
It's my opinion that your position on some topics is bogus. But to express that is like expressing a damn dog's anal glands. Stinky shit goes everywhere.
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NOBODY here is about to build shit in his honor.
Where should we put this sta.....oh wait, not yet.
(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm42/theprowler64/CoachChiziksimulationofTigerVII.jpg?t=1264550197)
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Hmmmm. I could ask the same question.
It's my opinion that your position on some topics is bogus. But to express that is like expressing a damn dog's anal glands. Stinky shit goes everywhere.
No. You can't. Fact is, I do NOT follow you around like you do me. I don't make it a point to bring your name into shit like you do, at the level you do.
Guess you hit the edit button before I could respond to the "IS the lie" point about saying I've claimed success, but you knew it was bullshit and squashed it.
Fact is Kaos, you make it a point for whatever reason to make sure that my opinion is viewed as bogus in ALL topics. You KNOW, that despite how I deliver it, I'm NOT claiming absolute victory, or ready to have a Chizik statue commissioned, but something in you has this need to ensure that my name gets dragged through the bullshit every chance you get. I very rarely post in a thread where you aren't somewhere close behind to fuck with it, or referring to it someplace else for no other reason than to draw attention to yourself by throwing out the next Chopper zinger. You're a good enough writer and have good enough opinions to not have a need to do that.
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... and have good enough opinions to not have a need to do that.
Mmmmm Hmmmm...exactly what Chop stated.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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No. You can't. Fact is, I do NOT follow you around like you do me. I don't make it a point to bring your name into shit like you do, at the level you do.
Guess you hit the edit button before I could respond to the "IS the lie" point about saying I've claimed success, but you knew it was bullshit and squashed it.
Fact is Kaos, you make it a point for whatever reason to make sure that my opinion is viewed as bogus in ALL topics. You KNOW, that despite how I deliver it, I'm NOT claiming absolute victory, or ready to have a Chizik statue commissioned, but something in you has this need to ensure that my name gets dragged through the bullshit every chance you get. I very rarely post in a thread where you aren't somewhere close behind to fuck with it, or referring to it someplace else for no other reason than to draw attention to yourself by throwing out the next Chopper zinger. You're a good enough writer and have good enough opinions to not have a need to do that.
I'm trying to discuss the point. Can you stop talking about yourself, please?
I didn't know you were into zingers. Ick.
(http://www.adultnoveltyworld.com/ClientPix/8710_Little%20Zinger%20wb.JPG)
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I'm trying to discuss the point. Can you stop talking about yourself, please?
I didn't know you were into zingers. Ick.
(http://www.adultnoveltyworld.com/ClientPix/8710_Little%20Zinger%20wb.JPG)
Do they make those in black? I like to be tactical.
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By the way, JAD, I added your post to the front page.
Holla at me if you want to change anything.
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By the way, JAD, I added your post to the front page.
Holla at me if you want to change anything.
You should add the picture of the little zinger backdoor ringers.
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He said postulate....huh huh
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Ron Zook second coming
I offered that as a possible scenario long ago...worst case is we have several great recruiting classes, several 8 and 9 win years, followed by hiring a coach to actually coach the talent left behind. Not predicting that, just saying it crossed my mind too. Have to say, that if you compare this staff to the previous one's work with virtually the same players from 2008 to 2009, this one shows some promise of being able to coach.
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I offered that as a possible scenario long ago...worst case is we have several great recruiting classes, several 8 and 9 win years, followed by hiring a coach to actually coach the talent left behind. Not predicting that, just saying it crossed my mind too. Have to say, that if you compare this staff to the previous one's work with virtually the same players from 2008 to 2009, this one shows some promise of being able to coach.
Well let's lock Charlie Weiss Gene Chizik up with a ten year contract!!!!!
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Well let's lock Charlie Weiss Gene Chizik up with a ten year contract!!!!!
I wouldn't go that far...but I'd say he's earned another couple of years (not any kind of extension) to see how he performs with these recruits.
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Do they make those in black? I like to be tactical.
^^Underrated post^^
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Well let's lock Charlie Weiss Gene Chizik up with a ten year contract!!!!!
That's actually a great cautionary tale. But we figured out pretty quick was Weiss' problem was. He could coach already developed, mature talent (Brady Quinn, Darius Walker, Samardzija, Maurice Stovall, Anthony Fasano, etc). And he could recruit talent. But couldn't do anything in between those two things.
I'm encouraged that the guy that broke some records this year is the same guy that was worthless last year. Tate ran 600+ yards last year and double that this year. Darvin Adams was abandoned as useless last year...set some records this year.
Anyway, lets hope we don't have a Weiss, but so far it looks like this group of coaches can make kids better than they were when they found them. 2011 will answer that. Will Benton, Blake, Adams, etc be good receivers? Will Newton or Rollison or Trotter be better in 11 than in 10? Will Owens, Holland, etc be tearing it up in the middle of the defense? Will Gayden, Coleman, Slade, Mack, and Slade be plowing huge holes for 1500 yard rusher Dyer to shoot through?
If all the names I just listed aren't doing those things in 2011 to varying degrees, then we should blow it up and start over.
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Words....words....words....words....then we should blow it up and start over.
There are a few posters that will only comprehend that little bit of your post and that's just plain sad.
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That's actually a great cautionary tale. But we figured out pretty quick was Weiss' problem was. He could coach already developed, mature talent (Brady Quinn, Darius Walker, Samardzija, Maurice Stovall, Anthony Fasano, etc). And he could recruit talent. But couldn't do anything in between those two things.
I'm encouraged that the guy that broke some records this year is the same guy that was worthless last year. Tate ran 600+ yards last year and double that this year. Darvin Adams was abandoned as useless last year...set some records this year.
Anyway, lets hope we don't have a Weiss, but so far it looks like this group of coaches can make kids better than they were when they found them. 2011 will answer that. Will Benton, Blake, Adams, etc be good receivers? Will Newton or Rollison or Trotter be better in 11 than in 10? Will Owens, Holland, etc be tearing it up in the middle of the defense? Will Gayden, Coleman, Slade, Mack, and Slade be plowing huge holes for 1500 yard rusher Dyer to shoot through?
If all the names I just listed aren't doing those things in 2011 to varying degrees, then we should blow it up and start over.
So do you agree with me that 2010 is likely to be a transition year and that maintaining the status quo is a reasonable goal?
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So do you agree with me that 2010 is likely to be a transition year and that maintaining the status quo is a reasonable goal?
I think it is the benchmark to judge next year by.
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Do they make those in black? I like to be tactical.
Not sure, but you can make any of them brown..........