Tigers X - Number one Source to Talk Auburn Tigers Sports
Pat Dye Field => War Damn Eagle => Topic started by: AuburnChopper 3.0 on November 18, 2009, 09:17:04 AM
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**Note** Copied over from a site that "*****'s name... **Note**
Scarbinsky: Gene Chizik's debut season mirrors Nick *****'s at
bama.
AUBURN -- Gene Chizik is not Nick *****.
Chizik is 10 years younger as a man and 11 seasons younger as a college head coach. And Chizik’s national championship came as a defensive coordinator.
Among other differences.
But the more you look at Chizik’s first season at Auburn, as the 7-4 Tigers take their first break after 11 straight games, the more you can’t help feeling that you’ve seen this movie before.
It looks an awful lot like ... *****’s first season at Alabama. Like a rollercoaster.
*****’s 2007 Alabama team started with a three-game winning streak and closed the regular season with four straight defeats.
Chizik’s 2009 Auburn team followed its 5-0 start by dropping three in a row.
*****’s first Alabama team, which beat two ranked teams, was ranked as high as No. 16 itself. That team suffered one bad loss to Louisiana-Monroe.
Chizik’s first Auburn team, which has beaten one ranked team, has been ranked as high as No. 17 itself.
This team has no loss that anyone would compare to Pearl Harbor or 9/11. *****’s debut season in Tuscaloosa featured a defense that gave up more points than all but two teams in Alabama history.
Chizik’s debut season here features a defense that has surrendered more points than any Auburn team ever. Imagine what a kick in the gut that was for ***** and is for Chizik, two guys who know how to run a defense.
That Alabama team finished the regular season 6-6.
This Auburn team is going to finish the regular season 7-5. That, however, is where the similarities end and hard, cold reality sets in for Auburn.
Because nothing in this state happens in a vacuum, you always have to consider the circumstances at the rival school.
When ***** got to Alabama, Auburn already had begun its slow descent from the undefeated season, No. 2 national finish and SEC title of 2004.
When Chizik got here, Alabama already had started its meteoric rise into the race for the national championship.
"It makes it tough on everybody in the league," Chizik said Tuesday. "Obviously, we’re in the same state so it’s magnified. We’ve got our work cut out for us, now."
It’s hard to stop a herd of elephants running downhill.
"I’ve come here at a time when Alabama is on an upswing," Chizik said. "My job is to get us to that point as well. We’ve got our work cut out for us, but we’re willing to do it. That’s part of the fun."
There’s another reason that Chizik’s rebuilding job at Auburn is much tougher than *****’s rebuilding job at Alabama. ***** inherited a team that lost the previous Iron Bowl 22-15.
Chizik took over a team that lost the last Iron Bowl 36-0. Is it possible that Mike Shula left behind more quality players for ***** than Tommy Tuberville did for Chizik?
"I said at the beginning, and I still say now," Chizik said, "where this program was, it’s gotta be rebuilt. I don’t think anyone can deny that."
Nor can anyone deny that, for opposing coaches, Alabama on tape is a horror film. What stands out to Chizik in the Tide tapes he’s studied?
"They’re so deep, and they’re so physical," he said. "Very physical on both sides of the ball. Very well-coached, as you would expect. Just very sound and very disciplined in everything they do. They’re a great football team."
Did he mention physical?
Hey, that’s what Chizik has been preaching he wants Auburn to be.
"That’s what we have to be," he said.
Better hurry.
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Well thank you Captain Obvious Scarbinski.
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Scarbinsky writes, "Gene Chizik is not Nick Saban."
No shit. Thankfully.
Scarbinsky writes, "Because nothing in this state happens in a vacuum, you always have to consider the circumstances at the rival school."
Bullshit. Doesn't have to be. I've been told by people in Cousinhumpaloosa that beating Auburn is not a major goal of Alabama's. (Allegedly, they aim higher. What the fuck ever.) It's only that way when you (the motherfucking Bammer run media) look at Auburn progress. It never measures up to the Bahr or Sabear or the Crapstone.
Scarbinsky writes, "Better hurry."
Translation: because I'm about to nut all over my keyboard with excitement as members of the REC jack me off while I write this.
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Scarbinsky writes, "Better hurry."
Translation: because I'm about to nut all over my keyboard with excitement as members of the REC jack me off while I write this.
Scarbinsky at least tries in my opinion. Actually I think that this is an article that mirrors a lot of debate between Auburn and Alabama fans over the last year. The situations are fairly similar, but the over-all picture is different and it's interesting to see how the two different style coaches are going to (one already has..and well) come out of their challenges.
I didn't take anything negative from this.
The "better hurry" quote? Not a pot stirring statement, but surely an accurate one.
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Just another article to assure Bammers that their team is superior.
Cocksuckers
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I didn't see anything that was really out of line in that article.
Other than Chizik attempting to guarantee himself five years to phuk everything up by declaring that the program has to be "rebuilt" as if he's starting from scratch (one of the most ludicrous statements ever uttered, he inherited more talent than any coach in the last 100 years), there really wasn't anything there that raised my hackles.
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I didn't see anything that was really out of line in that article.
Other than Chizik attempting to guarantee himself five years to phuk everything up by declaring that the program has to be "rebuilt" as if he's starting from scratch (one of the most ludicrous statements ever uttered, he inherited more talent than any coach in the last 100 years), there really wasn't anything there that raised my hackles.
The article you just read disagrees with you (and RWS).
When Saban got to Alabama, Auburn already had begun its slow descent from the undefeated season, No. 2 national finish and SEC title of 2004.
When Chizik got here, Alabama already had started its meteoric rise into the race for the national championship.
There’s another reason that Chizik’s rebuilding job at Auburn is much tougher than Saban’s rebuilding job at Alabama. Saban inherited a team that lost the previous Iron Bowl 22-15.
Chizik took over a team that lost the last Iron Bowl 36-0. Is it possible that Mike Shula left behind more quality players for Saban than Tommy Tuberville did for Chizik?
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(one of the most ludicrous statements ever uttered, he inherited more talent than any coach in the last 100 years)
I am assuming you mean at Auburn.
Terry Bowden hates you.
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fuck me running, did we already play the iron bowl? That sucks that we were defeated, but then again, do we do anything good?
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I am assuming you mean at Auburn.
Terry Bowden hates you.
Okay.. I'll rescind that. I did mean at Auburn, but Bowden's 1993 team probably had more top-shelf players than this one does. Dye did not leave him without players.
But I've seen teams/programs that needed "rebuilding" and Auburn at this point in time is not one of them. Might be in three or four years, but not right now. Chizik is just laying the groundwork for his failures.
It's the ISU blueprint. Say what you want about McCarney and the "nobody can win there" deal, but he did have the program as stable as it had been in its entire history. The ISU AD believed it was and also that it was on the cusp of turning a significant corner. That's why he hired Chizik -- who immediately declared it a disaster and in need of rebuilding. Not what he was hired for.
And here we are today... we need to be rebuilt.
BULL shit.
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Okay.. I'll rescind that. I did mean at Auburn, but Bowden's 1993 team probably had more top-shelf players than this one does. Dye did not leave him without players.
But I've seen teams/programs that needed "rebuilding" and Auburn at this point in time is not one of them. Might be in three or four years, but not right now. Chizik is just laying the groundwork for his failures.
It's the ISU blueprint. Say what you want about McCarney and the "nobody can win there" deal, but he did have the program as stable as it had been in its entire history. The ISU AD believed it was and also that it was on the cusp of turning a significant corner. That's why he hired Chizik -- who immediately declared it a disaster and in need of rebuilding. Not what he was hired for.
And here we are today... we need to be rebuilt.
BULL shit.
Reasons aside, I think it's easy for anyone to say that when you're coming off a 5-8 season with one coach, coming out of a period (again, reasons aside) where you're woefully short on scholarship players and depth, that Auburn IS in fact, in a state of being rebuilt right now.
I think you'll find it hard to argue that we are not. True?
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Reasons aside, I think it's easy for anyone to say that when you're coming off a 5-8 season with one coach, coming out of a period (again, reasons aside) where you're woefully short on scholarship players and depth, that Auburn IS in fact, in a state of being rebuilt right now.
I think you'll find it hard to argue that we are not. True?
Depends on how you define rebuilding.
Tear down the walls and start from scratch, which is what Chizik seems to insinuate, or change some attitudes and refocus?
If it's tear down the walls because Auburn doesn't have shit to work with? No. I call bullshit on that.
By the way? Chizik says depth isn't the problem.
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The last two years of CTT's tenure, alot of AU fans defended him and his recruiting. When he made his famous "We recruit character, not stars" comment, some AU fans nearly splooged all over their keyboards. CTT was actually outrecruiting Saban, because he is landing actual quality talent, and not recruiting from Rivals. etc, etc, etc. Amazing how that works. Making a shitty OC hire gets you fired, and then all of a sudden those "character" guys were shitty the whole time, and the new regime doesn't even have a chance with them. AU is in shambles, and needs a total rebuild.
Alabama has 4 years of Mike fucking Shula, and meh, no biggie. Easy fix. Are you guys telling me that Shula was a better evaluator of talent than Tuberville?
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Depends on how you define rebuilding.
Tear down the walls and start from scratch, which is what Chizik seems to insinuate, or change some attitudes and refocus?
If it's tear down the walls because Auburn doesn't have shit to work with? No. I call bullshit on that.
By the way? Chizik says depth isn't the problem.
I think when you start a season 10 short on schollies and end up with even less, depth is at minimum, a negative, if not the core problem.
I think in the end, I don't believe Chizik is tearing down anything. Tuberville initiated the move away from traditional offenses. Not Chizik. I don't think that anyone has asserted that Chizik had "shit" to work with, but certainly I've seen many places where people have questioned talent at specific positions, particularly QB.
I've got ZERO problems with what's going on. Not yet anyway. I've seen more to be excited about than ground work for some impending disaster.
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The last two years of CTT's tenure, alot of AU fans defended him and his recruiting. When he made his famous "We recruit character, not stars" comment, some AU fans nearly splooged all over their keyboards. CTT was actually outrecruiting Saban, because he is landing actual quality talent, and not recruiting from Rivals. etc, etc, etc. Amazing how that works. Making a shitty OC hire gets you fired, and then all of a sudden those "character" guys were shitty the whole time, and the new regime doesn't even have a chance with them. AU is in shambles, and needs a total rebuild.
Alabama has 4 years of Mike fucking Shula, and meh, no biggie. Easy fix. Are you guys telling me that Shula was a better evaluator of talent than Tuberville?
Evaluating talent, and ultimately doing something with it are different things. In the end, Alabama did a better job of it, then stacked two outstanding recruiting classes on top of it.
It sounded great at the time, but Auburn ultimately only showed that you can't live on diamonds in the rough if the other school has a pile of them already.
It was great at the time, but it doesn't work that way anymore.
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Our local sports talk guy read some quotes yesterday from Chizik saying depth is in fact the problem right now. How could it not be a major factor in where we are? However, rebuilding may be a bit strong for the state of the program. I think we have seen what this team is capable of with the influx of a little talent and a wide open system. "Building" on that with a couple of top flight recruiting classes vaults us to the upper tier of this league...and the nation.
Now, that's where coaching or lack thereof will really come to the forefront.
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Are any of the scribes of TigersX.com going to "grade" the coaches after the season ends?
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Are any of the scribes of TigersX.com going to "grade" the coaches after the season ends?
I'm sure there will be as many different grades and opinions offered as there are posters here. Some I believe have their mind made up already. Some are rival posters and will pop out interesting takes.
I think it'll be hard to grade everything in this first year. What they've had to do this year, and into the next year or two will encompass MUCH outside of just x's and o's.
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I'm gonna' go ahead and handle the Special Teams Corching grade.
Uummm....let's see...wait, I don't "G" anywhere on the list of possible grades.
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I think it'll be hard to grade everything in this first year. What they've had to do this year, and into the next year or two will encompass MUCH outside of just x's and o's.
That's like saying you shouldn't get grades in high school English classes until your junior year because you will have received adequate time to practice it.
Doesn't hold water, Chop.
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I'm sure there will be as many different grades and opinions offered as there are posters here. Some I believe have their mind made up already. Some are rival posters and will pop out interesting takes.
I think it'll be hard to grade everything in this first year. What they've had to do this year, and into the next year or two will encompass MUCH outside of just x's and o's.
Something that must be taken into consideration is recruiting. Saban's first season at Alabama wasn't great. Losing to ULM was damn embarrassing. BUT, he went on to sign one of the top, if not the best, recruiting class in the country. A class that has played a huge role in the 22-2 record Alabama has since signing the dotted line.
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Thoughts from the assholes 'cross the state.
http://forums.tidesports.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/3631098265/m/6521042249 (http://forums.tidesports.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/3631098265/m/6521042249)
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I've got ZERO problems with what's going on. Not yet anyway. I've seen more to be excited about than ground work for some impending disaster.
You said that about Franklin. And again about the 2009 defense which has (with two games to go) already surrendered more points than any in Auburn history.
Just saying...
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A class that has played a huge role in the 22-2 record Alabama has since signing the dotted line.
Really? Really?
List the ones from that signing class who played last year. How many are playing this year?
Show your work.
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Our local sports talk guy read some quotes yesterday from Chizik saying depth is in fact the problem right now.
Either your local sports guy is lying or Chizik is.
http://wareagleextra.blogspot.com/2009/11/live-blogging-gene-chizik_15.html (http://wareagleextra.blogspot.com/2009/11/live-blogging-gene-chizik_15.html)
"Depth isn't the problem, execution is."
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That's like saying you shouldn't get grades in high school English classes until your junior year because you will have received adequate time to practice it.
Doesn't hold water, Chop.
No, more like getting your FINAL grade for the quarter only 4-5 weeks in.
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Really? Really?
List the ones from that signing class who played last year. How many are playing this year?
Show your work.
Julio Jones - starter
Mark Ingram - starter
Barret Jones - starter
Terrance Cody - starter
Marcel Dareus - starter
Mark Barron - starter
Robby Green - backup
John Micheal Boswell - backup
Don'ta Hightower - starter
Courtney Upshaw - backup
Brad Smelley - backup
Michael Williams - backup
There are more that play special teams, but those are the cats who have factored in a lot of playing time.
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No, more like getting your FINAL grade for the quarter only 4-5 weeks in.
I didn't say FINAL grade, just FIRST SEASON grade. Based on your logic, it's the first semester grades.
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Julio Jones - starter
Mark Ingram - starter
Barret Jones - starter
Terrance Cody - starter
Marcel Dareus - starter
Mark Barron - starter
Robby Green - backup
John Micheal Boswell - backup
Don'ta Hightower - starter
Courtney Upshaw - backup
Brad Smelley - backup
Michael Williams - backup
There are more that play special teams, but those are the cats who have factored in a lot of playing time.
Which of these played last year?
Ingram. Cody. Maybe Hightower, I don't remember.
You're really going to count Brad Smelley? Or Michael Williams? Seriously? He's played in two games and has three catches. Yeah, that's significant. Who the FUCK is Robby Green? His mother doesn't know him. John Michael Boswell? He used to be the guy who worked with Charlie's Angels, right?
Saban is making his gravy with Shula's players. That, more than anything, is what concerns me about that shit eating leprechaun.
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Julio Jones - starter
Mark Ingram - starter
Barret Jones - starter
Terrance Cody - starter
Marcel Dareus - starter
Mark Barron - starter
Robby Green - backup
John Micheal Boswell - backup
Don'ta Hightower - starter
Courtney Upshaw - backup
Brad Smelley - backup
Michael Williams - backup
There are more that play special teams, but those are the cats who have factored in a lot of playing time.
yeah well sure, so there's that.
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Who the FUCK is Robby Green?
The guy that picked off J. Lee at the end of the LSU game this year. Of course, a lot of SEC defensive players can lay claim to INTs from Lee.
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That's like saying you shouldn't get grades in high school English classes until your junior year because you will have received adequate time to practice it.
Doesn't hold water, Chop.
No. It's not the same. I know you, Kaos and others have your approach. No big deal. I however feel, that while you think my approach doesn't hold water (and that's fine) I think naming them a failure or not after this one year would be irresponsible.
This isn't English class. However, if I DO use your analogy, I'll use it to point out that what you're doing your Senior year is much more complicated, or advanced than your freshman year. Your freshman year, you build your skills and prepare for your sophmore year, and etc...etc...
Chizik is a freshman at Auburn. He's getting his first year to create a foundation for his style of coaching. He has a good staff, and is recruiting for it. He's doing a good job at it as well. I'm not sure where we'll be as a senior in 2013, but for now, I haven't seen anything that makes him a failure, nor driving it in that direction.
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Which of these played last year?
Ingram. Cody. Maybe Hightower, I don't remember.
You're really going to count Brad Smelley? Or Michael Williams? Seriously? He's played in two games and has three catches. Yeah, that's significant. Who the phuk is Robby Green? His mother doesn't know him. John Michael Boswell? He used to be the guy who worked with Charlie's Angels, right?
Saban is making his gravy with Shula's players. That, more than anything, is what concerns me about that poop eating leprechaun.
You asked who has played, not who has made the greatest impact. Smelley has played a lot. Michael Williams switched from Defensive End to Tight End this season. He's started at a new position and has pushed his way to #2 on the depth chart, but yeah, he hasn't really made a huge impact.
Robby Green plays a lot also. He's also been involved in some big plays this fall.
I agree that Saban has done a good job coaching up Shula's players, but depth is where these players helped the most. We don't fall apart in the 4th quarter because we have quality players to plug in during the game. As for the players who have the greatest impact.
Ingram - leading rusher in the SEC
Jones - leading receiver on the team
Dareus - leads team in sacks
Barron - leads SEC in interceptions
Cody - eats up most of the interior line
Just take those players away and you are not looking at a 10-0 team right now.
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Maybe, but that Ingram is no Ben Tate
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I think naming them a failure or not after this one year would be irresponsible.
Who even said that? You are assuming a whole lot. Who said I'd be grading? I asked if someone would.
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Maybe, but that Ingram is no Ben Tate
He's still got two more years left. Hopefully he'll make it there by his senior season.
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He's still got two more years left. Hopefully he'll make it there by his senior season.
Well, it's a lofty goal. Just don't be shedding any tears if he doesn't
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Who even said that? You are assuming a whole lot. Who said I'd be grading? I asked if someone would.
I included you with someone else who's deemed Chizik a person on the road to failure. Actually though, I honestly answered that there would be many different grades as to Chizik's performance, and think there will be many ways to do it.
How come you won't be grading?
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Alabama has 4 years of Mike fucking Shula, and meh, no biggie. Easy fix. Are you guys telling me that Shula was a better evaluator of talent than Tuberville?
When you went to all of those Mike Shula Coached games, was it just as fustrating in the stadium as it was watching them on TV? :rofl:
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When you went to all of those Mike Shula Coached games, was it just as fustrating in the stadium as it was watching them on TV? :rofl:
Sorry RWS but.... I chuckled
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Well, it's a lofty goal. Just don't be shedding any tears if he doesn't
It's attainable. All he really has to do is...
- run a little more straight up
- miss a few more blocks on the pass rush
- stop breaking so many tackles
If he really applies himself, he can do it.
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It's attainable. All he really has to do is...
- run a little more straight up
- miss a few more blocks on the pass rush
- stop breaking so many tackles
If he really applies himself, he can do it.
I bet he waits until he's drafted by the Rams or the Raiders to do all that shit.
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I didn't say FINAL grade, just FIRST SEASON grade. Based on your logic, it's the first semester grades.
Was "quarters" last time I was in a college classroom...yeah - I'm old. :)
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Was "quarters" last time I was in a college classroom...yeah - I'm old. :)
I was on the quarters system. Played a lot of quarters too
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Played a lot of quarters too
If you old timers ever feel like blowing the dust off of your skillz....
Maybe at the tailgate.
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If you old timers ever feel like blowing the dust off of your skillz....
Maybe at the tailgate.
IF..you show!!!
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IF..you show!!!
IF I do...you taking me up on my challenge?
If you're scared, just say scared.
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IF I do...you taking me up on my challenge?
If you're scared, just say scared.
Not skeered. I'll set the pace. Try and keep up.
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Not skeered. I'll set the pace. Try and keep up.
Make sure your kitchen pass lets you out till Saturday.....
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If you old timers ever feel like blowing the dust off of your skillz....
Maybe at the tailgate.
Your a hearbreaker...
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I suck at teh quarters, but I think that's why I enjoy the game so much. Even when you lose, you win.