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Pat Dye Field => War Damn Eagle => Topic started by: Kaos on November 10, 2009, 02:09:09 PM

Title: Winningest Active Coaches
Post by: Kaos on November 10, 2009, 02:09:09 PM
Here's an interesting list.

Coach, Curr. School Yrs W L T Pct. Bowls
1. Pete Carroll, USC 9 95 17 0 .848 6-2
2. Urban Meyer, UF 9 92 17 0 .844 5-1
3. Bob Stoops, OU 11 114 28 0 .803 4-7
4. Mark Richt, UGA 9 87 26 0 .770 6-2
5. Gary Patterson, TCU 10 82 27 0 .752 5-3
6. Joe Paterno, PSU 44 391 129 3 .750 23-11-1
7. Bobby Bowden, FSU 44 386 128 4 .749 21-10-1

Couple of things stand out at me. 

Only two people on this list don't have a NC.  Richt and Patterson. 

We could have had Patterson and at least one of those omissions would have been eliminated.
Title: Re: Winningest Active Coaches
Post by: Thrilla on November 10, 2009, 02:17:56 PM
I knew Stoops usually blows the bowl games, but I didn't know it was THAT bad.  Did Bowden ever have to vacate those wins due to NCAA infractions, and is that reflected here?
Title: Re: Winningest Active Coaches
Post by: eagleair89 on November 10, 2009, 02:45:28 PM
Patterson is a good coach with an impressive record..........

I just have never believed that he would have been a good hire at Auburn.....know why you think so and no problem with the thought process......

I just do not believe that a good  record compiled at TCU transfers automatically into success elsewhere.....there is a/are reason(s) no one else has hired him.

Not trying to re-open or rehash the coaching search hire.......but from what I know, have seen & been told...I like our guy and this staff and what they have done to date.

Let the assassination attempts begin  :suicide:

WAR EAGLE
 :wartim:
Title: Re: Winningest Active Coaches
Post by: Townhallsavoy on November 10, 2009, 04:55:49 PM
That list is interesting only because Georgia fans are serious about discussing Richt's future. 

Gary Patterson is a good to great coach, but I really think we needed something unconventional with this staff.  I think Patterson was too bland. 

Turner Gill had the race card, but that would have faded just like Croom at Miss St.  Chizik brought in Troop and Lupe along with Malzahn's offense. 

We now compete in recruiting with the big time programs.  Patterson wouldn't have done that. 
Title: Re: Winningest Active Coaches
Post by: Kaos on November 10, 2009, 07:00:04 PM
Could not disagree more vehemently with the two opinions above.

Winners win. Patterson isn't a flash in the pan. He has established a clear pattern of long term success at TCU. Not a single season wunderkind but a lengthy pattern of success.

He's done it while recruiting head to head with Texas, OU, A&M and Nebraska.

All the things you collectively said were stacked against Chizik at ISU also face Patterson at TCU.

Every "yeah but he didn't have Auburn players, facilities, fans etc. applied to Chiziks failures also apply to Pattersons  successes.

Winners win. Ask Urban Meyer.

Bland? Fuck me. I'll take 10 or 11 bland ass wins every single fucking season. That's what his bland gives TCU.

I may be wrong about many things. But mark this for I am not. Patterson jumps to a major program? They win a NC within three years.  I am utterly convinced we would have too.
Title: Re: Winningest Active Coaches
Post by: Pell City Tiger on November 10, 2009, 07:34:45 PM
Patterson was my choice. Would have done wonders on the Plains.
Title: Re: Winningest Active Coaches
Post by: jadennis on November 10, 2009, 09:49:13 PM
I wouldn't have minded Patterson, he's basically another Tuberville in a lot of ways (defense and ball control).

However, I think it's way, way too simplistic to say "winners win".  Not in the mood to track them down, but there are plenty of guys that succeeded at lesser programs and didn't when they moved on to big time football.  Heck, first one that comes to mind is Patterson's predecessor, Coach Fran.  Dan Hawkins at Colorado is another that comes to mind.  Our own Jeff Lebo is a good hoops example.  Mark Dantonio moved from Cincy to Michigan State...he's not doing so hot.  What was that guys name that went from Pitt to Stanford?  Walt Harris or something?  He won 8+ games his last three years at Pitt, then won 5 games in year one and 1 game in year two at Stanford.   Fired.

Patterson may well have won here, but he also may not have.  Every move up doesn't work out like Urban Meyer.
Title: Re: Winningest Active Coaches
Post by: Snaggletiger on November 10, 2009, 10:08:21 PM
Our talent level is what it is.  We have more talent than we showed last year but certainly not enough to compete for SEC titles right now.  If someone came in and tried to play defense first and conservative on O...we'd be 4-6 at best right now and wondering why the hell we hired this guy.  First and foremost, we have to get the athletes in here before ANYONE can prove themselves as a coach in this situation. 

I give Chizik credit for two things.  First, implementing a system (Through Malzahn) that maximizes the talent we do have.  Second, creating an atmosphere and/or a buzz (Through the assistants) with our recruiting efforts to seemingly get the ball rolling in the right direction to quickly bring top flight athletes in so we can compete. 

Is Chizik a good coach?  Still don't know if he's the right guy for the job.  I liken him to my feelings on Chris Todd.  They've both done some real good things to this point but I'm still not comfortable going to battle with either one.
Title: Re: Winningest Active Coaches
Post by: eagleair89 on November 10, 2009, 11:47:29 PM
"if Patterson jumps to a major program" ---Kaos

He has been at TCU for 9 years....why is it every major program is so blind to this wunderkind coach?

Why has not someone picked him up?

Your Urban example........only took him 4 years as a HC to land a big time job.............
Again why 9 years and no offer for Patterson......please answer this for I would like to know...........not every major FBS program has JJ as the AD and YellerMan & the Bankrupt Banker screwing everything up :doh:

and to use our very own hero...Pat Dye...only took him 7 years before he got his shot at AU...........

9 years of success is a long time to be at TCU w/o one single major FBS school even giving you a serious interview..............heck Sullivan was at TCU only 3 years before LSU hired him and then that crazy-ass AD Joe Dean Sr. screwed Pat royally

you can't answer these questions & neither can I.........but my bet is there are those who can.

WAR EAGLE
 :wartim:

ps: I few things that stand out to me on that list

Carroll was a so-so coach in  the NFL and had no college HC experience
Paterno, Richt and Stoops also had no HC experience when hired and were not proven "winners" as a HC
Bowden coached at 1 very small program (and won), one so-so program (and won) & then took over at a former all girls teacher college/homecoming opponent team and built a dynasty....both AU & uat made serious efforts to hire the man in the 1980's........didn't work out.

Patterson has been at TCU for a while and before that labored away at mostly small programs.........maybe he is in his comfort zone and has no desire to move...........

Urban is Urban and UF got him and the rest of us did not....
Title: Re: Winningest Active Coaches
Post by: Kaos on November 11, 2009, 01:04:49 AM
"if Patterson jumps to a major program" ---Kaos

He has been at TCU for 9 years....why is it every major program is so blind to this wunderkind coach?

Why has not someone picked him up?

Your Urban example........only took him 4 years as a HC to land a big time job.............
Again why 9 years and no offer for Patterson......please answer this for I would like to know...........not every major FBS program has JJ as the AD and YellerMan & the Bankrupt Banker screwing everything up :doh:

and to use our very own hero...Pat Dye...only took him 7 years before he got his shot at AU...........

9 years of success is a long time to be at TCU w/o one single major FBS school even giving you a serious interview..............heck Sullivan was at TCU only 3 years before LSU hired him and then that crazy-ass AD Joe Dean Sr. screwed Pat royally

you can't answer these questions & neither can I.........but my bet is there are those who can.

WAR EAGLE
 :wartim:

ps: I few things that stand out to me on that list

Carroll was a so-so coach in  the NFL and had no college HC experience
Paterno, Richt and Stoops also had no HC experience when hired and were not proven "winners" as a HC
Bowden coached at 1 very small program (and won), one so-so program (and won) & then took over at a former all girls teacher college/homecoming opponent team and built a dynasty....both AU & uat made serious efforts to hire the man in the 1980's........didn't work out.

Patterson has been at TCU for a while and before that labored away at mostly small programs.........maybe he is in his comfort zone and has no desire to move...........

Urban is Urban and UF got him and the rest of us did not....


Patterson is looking for the right opportunity, not any opportunity.  He's a smart guy.  He's not going to jump from TCU to Memphis or somewhere like that just for the sake of jumping. 

He's built something good at TCU and it would take the right offer to make him leave.  We had the right offer and Jacobs chose not to exercise it.  I'm pretty sure I know why but since part of my knowledge is actually speculation I'm going to leave it alone. 

All I'll say about it is that the reasons were short-sighted and self-absorbed. 
Title: Re: Winningest Active Coaches
Post by: wesfau2 on November 11, 2009, 08:49:34 AM
Patterson is looking for the right opportunity, not any opportunity.  He's a smart guy.  He's not going to jump from TCU to Memphis or somewhere like that just for the sake of jumping. 


That's a quick dodge from the eagleair's actual question.

I agree that Patterson is a helluva a coach, and I was in his corner somewhat during the Auburn search.

The question, however, was: why hasn't the "right opportunity" or attractive offer been made available to Patterson in nearly a decade?
Title: Re: Winningest Active Coaches
Post by: GH2001 on November 11, 2009, 09:37:25 AM
That's a quick dodge from the eagleair's actual question.

I agree that Patterson is a helluva a coach, and I was in his corner somewhat during the Auburn search.

The question, however, was: why hasn't the "right opportunity" or attractive offer been made available to Patterson in nearly a decade?

Thats the only thing that has concerned me about Patterson. Why has no school went after him?

I often wondered the same about Mike Leach until last year - and I found my answer. Guy is a nut. Arrrgggggggghhhh!!
Title: Re: Winningest Active Coaches
Post by: Kaos on November 11, 2009, 09:54:40 AM
That's a quick dodge from the eagleair's actual question.

I agree that Patterson is a helluva a coach, and I was in his corner somewhat during the Auburn search.

The question, however, was: why hasn't the "right opportunity" or attractive offer been made available to Patterson in nearly a decade?

What jobs have been out there in the last five years? 

Iowa State?  He's not stupid.
Tennessee? They needed bigger sizzle.
Auburn? Idiot athletic director.

I can't answer why he hasn't been made that offer.  He's come up in connection to a couple of jobs but has a pretty big buyout ($1 M or more) for a smaller school guy.  He's also rebuffed pretty quickly the few who did come calling like Minnesota.  He checked out that situation and decided it wasn't for him.

I don't know know anything, but I have heard that he was on the Auburn list, but didn't want to have the "front door" meeting Jacobs insisted on.  Wanted to be able to evaluate the situation and make a decision without having to go back and explain to his players and possible recruits if he decided to stay put.  Our AD wouldn't do that.  It had to be public.  So he Patterson refused to talk to him at all.  That's the short version, anyway.
Title: Re: Winningest Active Coaches
Post by: jadennis on November 11, 2009, 10:01:01 AM
I think it's pretty well known that Patterson is apparently not a good interview for ADs.  But with his winning, that alone can't be the reason he is still at TCU, so it must be part him, part ADs not finding him "attractive" during an interview.

I would have to go with the latter being the biggest reason.  Of course he wouldn't go from TCU to Memphis, but in the last 6 years or so, think of all the programs that have been in a coaching search...

Texas A&M, Oklahoma State, Clemson, Georgia Tech, LSU, South Carolina, Tennessee, Auburn, Ole Miss, Mississippi State, Miami, North Carolina, NC State, Kansas State (twice), Colorado, Baylor, Florida, UCLA, Stanford, Arizona State, Louisville, West Virginia, Michigan, Michigan State, Northwestern, Indiana, Illinois, Arkansas, Arizona, etc.

And those are just the ones I can come up with in my head going through each conference.  It is just odd that not one of those listed, and the majority of those listed are upgrades from TCU, were never the right fit....for whatever reason.  

Who knows, maybe he just wants to stay there and continue to build it over the next 20 years.  Like EA said, he has to be pretty comfortable, winning 10+ five of the last seven years (about to be 6 of 8) will do that.
Title: Re: Winningest Active Coaches
Post by: wesfau2 on November 11, 2009, 10:16:29 AM
What jobs have been out there in the last five years? 

Iowa State?  He's not stupid.
Tennessee? They needed bigger sizzle.
Auburn? Idiot athletic director.

That's a ridiculously half-assed list.  You're better than that.
Title: Re: Winningest Active Coaches
Post by: Saniflush on November 11, 2009, 10:23:13 AM
Iowa State?  He's not stupid.
 


So you are saying it is hard to win there?
Title: Re: Winningest Active Coaches
Post by: Godfather on November 11, 2009, 10:23:50 AM
Charles Strong was my pick, no one listens to me.
Title: Re: Winningest Active Coaches
Post by: War Eagle!!! on November 11, 2009, 10:42:18 AM
Charles Strong was my pick, no one listens to me.

I wanted Chizik from the start. I met him at the airport...
Title: Re: Winningest Active Coaches
Post by: eagleair89 on November 11, 2009, 10:43:31 AM
but I have heard that he was on the Auburn list, but didn't want to have the "front door" meeting Jacobs insisted on.  Wanted to be able to evaluate the situation and make a decision without having to go back and explain to his players and possible recruits if he decided to stay put." - Kaos

There is a reason for this (I think I know one of the major factors of this) and I blame neither Patterson or JJ (bless his little heart) for not coming to terms on this sticking point.  (There was/is a lot of "family" history on both sides that made each man stick to his guns on this point)

........but has a pretty big buyout ($1 M or more) for a smaller school guy. - Kaos

His buyout is large........BNSF (the railroad) has been, & I think still is, the major $$$ behind TCU Football since at least the 90's...they have a little bit of cash to throw around.......the support (read corporate $$$) for TCU football is pretty dang good, all things considered.

but in the last 6 years or so, think of all the programs that have been in a coaching search...Kansas State (twice) - jadennis

This is just me.......but why he is not at K-State surprises me......it is his alma mater (he was born in Kansas & played & coached D for K-State) and the Big 12 North is there for the taking......and K-State can and has won the Big 12 Championship Game...why retread Snyder instead of getting one of your own who is younger and successful...................money/support might have been an issue here....& imho K-State might be a lateral move from where he is.

WAR EAGLE
Title: Re: Winningest Active Coaches
Post by: eagleair89 on November 11, 2009, 10:45:22 AM
I wanted Chizik from the start. I met him at the airport...

were you the one that was too stupid to realize he was not on that flight?  Or were you one of the crowd that showed up when Chizik was actually on the plane?

 :rofl:

WAR EAGLE
Title: Re: Winningest Active Coaches
Post by: Godfather on November 11, 2009, 11:01:01 AM
I wanted Chizik from the start. I met him at the airport...
I wanted a winner not a loser...
Title: Re: Winningest Active Coaches
Post by: The Prowler on November 11, 2009, 07:40:56 PM
I wanted Chizik from the start. I met him at the airport...
Oh yeah, well I told him to get off my farm.....
Title: Re: Winningest Active Coaches
Post by: wesfau2 on November 11, 2009, 08:40:11 PM

So you are saying it is hard to win there?

Well played, sir.
Title: Re: Winningest Active Coaches
Post by: dallaswareagle on November 13, 2009, 02:24:07 PM
Patterson was my choice. Would have done wonders on the Plains.

Prolly very good, if this was the schuedule and we did not play in the SEC: Two very weak teams in the top 20 and SQUAT after that.

 Sat, Sep 12 at Virginia W 30-14  
  Sat, Sep 19 Texas State W 56-21  
  Sat, Sep 26 at Clemson W 14-10  
  Sat, Oct 3 Southern Methodist W 39-14  
  Sat, Oct 10 at Air Force W 20-17  
  Sat, Oct 17 Colorado State W 44-6  
  Sat, Oct 24 at (16) Brigham Young W 38-7  
  Sat, Oct 31 UNLV W 41-0  
  Sat, Nov 7 at San Diego State W 55-12  Audio
  Sat, Nov 14 (16) Utah 7:30 pm  
  Sat, Nov 21 at Wyoming 2:00 pm  
  Sat, Nov 28 New Mexico 1:00 pm
Title: Re: Winningest Active Coaches
Post by: dallaswareagle on November 13, 2009, 02:42:42 PM
And I would say recruiting is going a little different for us:

TCU   2010

QB  101    Sam Carter                           2 stars
(Morton Ranch HS)
Katy, TX    6-0.5/210/4.60  07/29/2009 
  TCU 
S  NR    Stephen Bryant                         1 star                     
(New Deal HS)
New Deal, TX   -/-  06/23/2009
  TCU 
S  141    Travaras Battle                        2 star
(Jay HS)
San Antonio, TX   5-10/175/4.40  06/15/2009
  TCU 
OLB  106    Marcus Mallett                       2 star
(Cleveland HS)
Cleveland, TX    6-1/200/4.80  02/27/2009
  TCU 
OLB  48    Blake Roberts                          3 star
(Lee HS)
Tyler, TX    6-3/210/4.60  02/12/2009
  TCU 
DE  88    David Johnson                           3 star
(Argyle HS)
Argyle, TX    6-2/255/4.70  02/04/2009
  TCU 
Title: Re: Winningest Active Coaches
Post by: JR4AU on November 13, 2009, 03:14:13 PM
Could not disagree more vehemently with the two opinions above.

Winners win. Patterson isn't a flash in the pan. He has established a clear pattern of long term success at TCU. Not a single season wunderkind but a lengthy pattern of success.

He's done it while recruiting head to head with Texas, OU, A&M and Nebraska.

All the things you collectively said were stacked against Chizik at ISU also face Patterson at TCU.  

Every "yeah but he didn't have Auburn players, facilities, fans etc. applied to Chiziks failures also apply to Pattersons  successes.

Winners win. Ask Urban Meyer.

Bland? Fuck me. I'll take 10 or 11 bland ass wins every single fucking season. That's what his bland gives TCU.

I may be wrong about many things. But mark this for I am not. Patterson jumps to a major program? They win a NC within three years.  I am utterly convinced we would have too.

Patterson a winner?  Agree.  Does TCU play very good football?  Hell yes!  Does the Mtn. West play good football?  Absolutely!  BUT, they don't do it with SEC or Big 12 level players.  Utah can beat a sleepwalking bammer in a bowl game...they'd go 7-5 or 6-6 playing an SEC schedule with those players.  The coaches there can coach as good as any.  But they're not playing with the same players, or going head to head with Stoops, Brown, and the other big boys for 5 star talent.  TCU is batteling Texas Tech for the best of the rest after TX, OU, Neb, LSU, even Auburn now, and others come pick theirs, and then beating out SMU and such for the best Mtn. West level players.  But there is no comparing ISU's pathetic program that plays in one of the best 3 BCS conferences, to TCU's program that plays in a state loaded with players and a conference not loaded with talent. Would Patterson's success translate?  Smart money would say yes, but it's still a gamble, and not a sure thing. 
Title: Re: Winningest Active Coaches
Post by: Kaos on November 13, 2009, 03:49:38 PM
Well played, sir.

Never said it wasn't difficult.  It can be done.  Patterson would win at ISU, you can bank on that.

But the meaning was really that ISU is at the very best a step sideways from TCU.  It's probably a step down.
Title: Re: Winningest Active Coaches
Post by: Kaos on November 13, 2009, 03:50:50 PM
Patterson a winner?  Agree.  Does TCU play very good football?  Hell yes!  Does the Mtn. West play good football?  Absolutely!  BUT, they don't do it with SEC or Big 12 level players.  Utah can beat a sleepwalking bammer in a bowl game...they'd go 7-5 or 6-6 playing an SEC schedule with those players.  The coaches there can coach as good as any.  But they're not playing with the same players, or going head to head with Stoops, Brown, and the other big boys for 5 star talent.  TCU is batteling Texas Tech for the best of the rest after TX, OU, Neb, LSU, even Auburn now, and others come pick theirs, and then beating out SMU and such for the best Mtn. West level players.  But there is no comparing ISU's pathetic program that plays in one of the best 3 BCS conferences, to TCU's program that plays in a state loaded with players and a conference not loaded with talent. Would Patterson's success translate?  Smart money would say yes, but it's still a gamble, and not a sure thing. 

Urban Meyer says  :fu:
Title: Re: Winningest Active Coaches
Post by: Kaos on November 13, 2009, 03:52:28 PM
And I would say recruiting is going a little different for us:

TCU   2010

QB  101    Sam Carter                           2 stars
(Morton Ranch HS)
Katy, TX    6-0.5/210/4.60  07/29/2009 
  TCU 
S  NR    Stephen Bryant                         1 star                     
(New Deal HS)
New Deal, TX   -/-  06/23/2009
  TCU 
S  141    Travaras Battle                        2 star
(Jay HS)
San Antonio, TX   5-10/175/4.40  06/15/2009
  TCU 
OLB  106    Marcus Mallett                       2 star
(Cleveland HS)
Cleveland, TX    6-1/200/4.80  02/27/2009
  TCU 
OLB  48    Blake Roberts                          3 star
(Lee HS)
Tyler, TX    6-3/210/4.60  02/12/2009
  TCU 
DE  88    David Johnson                           3 star
(Argyle HS)
Argyle, TX    6-2/255/4.70  02/04/2009
  TCU 


It went different for AU prior, too. 

AU has more "stars" than TCU by a good margin.  Who would you put money on if the two teams played tomorrow?  Your last ten dollars.... where does it go?

You just proved the fuck out of MY point dallas.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Winningest Active Coaches
Post by: JR4AU on November 13, 2009, 03:53:52 PM
Urban Meyer says  :fu:

Take off the boxing gloves and read the entire post...especially the first part of the last sentence.
Title: Re: Winningest Active Coaches
Post by: JR4AU on November 13, 2009, 03:58:37 PM
Never said it wasn't difficult.  It can be done.  Patterson would win at ISU, you can bank on that.

But the meaning was really that ISU is at the very best a step sideways from TCU.  It's probably a step down.

Apples and oranges...TCU is a good program in a lesser league.  ISU is a miserable program in a very good league. 

MS State, Ole Miss, So. Carolina, and Kentucky would compete for, and usually win the WAC or Mtn West Crown every year with what they compete with at a mediocre (or less) level in the SEC. 
Title: Re: Winningest Active Coaches
Post by: dallaswareagle on November 13, 2009, 04:14:54 PM
It went different for AU prior, too.  

AU has more "stars" than TCU by a good margin.  Who would you put money on if the two teams played tomorrow?  Your last ten dollars.... where does it go?

You just proved the fuck out of MY point dallas.  Thanks.

It would go on Auburn, I see year in and year out TCU play that weak ass shit schedule, play anybody worth a damn and get killed. Auburn would kill them. Have you looked at their roster?
Title: Re: Winningest Active Coaches
Post by: JR4AU on November 13, 2009, 04:28:26 PM
It would go on Auburn, I see year in and year out TCU play that weak ass shit schedule, play anybody worth a damn and get killed. Auburn would kill them. Have you looked at their roster?

You do understand that "weak ass schedule" is relative don't you?  To an SEC team TCU's schedule would be a cake walk.  Not to a Mtn West team.  The fact they're playing with lesser players doesn't mean they're not playing good football, or well coached, just that they're not as big, strong, or as fast man for man as an SEC team.  I get tired of reading that kind of crap.  The fact that an SEC team would destroy Hoover HS, Spain Park, Bob Jones, Prattville, or whatever doesn't mean those aren't good HS teams, just that they're HS teams competing on a different level.  TCU might be Div 1 or FBS or whatever, but clearly they're not playing with the same talent as the perennial top 25 programs.
Title: Re: Winningest Active Coaches
Post by: dallaswareagle on November 13, 2009, 04:37:02 PM
You do understand that "weak ass schedule" is relative don't you?  To an SEC team TCU's schedule would be a cake walk.  Not to a Mtn West team.  The fact they're playing with lesser players doesn't mean they're not playing good football, or well coached, just that they're not as big, strong, or as fast man for man as an SEC team.  I get tired of reading that kind of crap.  The fact that an SEC team would destroy Hoover HS, Spain Park, Bob Jones, Prattville, or whatever doesn't mean those aren't good HS teams, just that they're HS teams competing on a different level.  TCU might be Div 1 or FBS or whatever, but clearly they're not playing with the same talent as the perennial top 25 programs.

Good point, I was about to make a comment on this, I was lucky enough to come back for two games-La Tech and ole miss, and have been to "whatever" conference games they have out here( 6 games of different teams), It is like watching two different level of teams, the speed, size, and ability in the SEC is on a different level.  TCU is a good team-against other TCU like teams.
Title: Re: Winningest Active Coaches
Post by: Kaos on November 13, 2009, 04:56:48 PM
All Y'all are crazy. I would take TCU and your money. 
Title: Re: Winningest Active Coaches
Post by: JR4AU on November 13, 2009, 04:58:57 PM
Good point, I was about to make a comment on this, I was lucky enough to come back for two games-La Tech and ole miss, and have been to "whatever" conference games they have out here( 6 games of different teams), It is like watching two different level of teams, the speed, size, and ability in the SEC is on a different level.  TCU is a good team-against other TCU like teams.

To bring this back around on point...

A coach that wins at this level is capable of coaching more talented players to the same level of success...USUALLY.  But as has been noted the REAL differences in winning at TCU and TX or Auburn, or bammer...is that you must recruit.  D-1 players are freaks of nature...even 2 and 3 stars are better athletes than most of us have even known.  But to win at the highest levels you have to recruit the best of the best, and they're not a dime a dozen...they're highly coveted.  Compared to the number of kids a program like TX, USC, OU, AU, Bammer would offer, there's scads of kids that TCU could play with and win with.  Note I said comparatively speaking. Still, Patterson is proving that among the Mtn. West teams, he's capable of getting the best that will play there, and coaching them up.  Still, not every Mtn West program really cares about football.  Even TCU has some patsies on it's schedule, and some programs that have to beg even the 2 stars to come play.  So, it's a step up to have to recruit against Saban, Meyer, Kiffen, even Chizik at this point it seems...and the pool from which to draw is smaller though the competition is tougher.  And further, the "off the field" crap is 10x, 20x more, and more pressure packed and scrutenized.  Kiffen can't utter a word without it be discected 15 different ways to try and make it some jab at another SEC coach or the officials now.  I'm convinced that some very fine coaches shy away from the big time jobs due to the fact that there's so little "coaching" involved.  It's a far different job to be an SEC coach than say a Div II coach, or even the coach at a WAC or Mtn West school, yet at the end of the day, your title is coach, and you're judged on Ws and Ls.  You can fail for a lot more reasons than not knowing football, and football players.  In fact, you can fail while being a very good on the field coach.  
Title: Re: Winningest Active Coaches
Post by: Buzz Killington on November 13, 2009, 05:00:23 PM
All Y'all are crazy. I would take TCU and your money. 

So, you really think Clemson would beat Auburn if they played tomorrow?
Title: Re: Winningest Active Coaches
Post by: JR4AU on November 13, 2009, 05:00:53 PM
All Y'all are crazy. I would take TCU and your money. 

I never took the bet...but if I did, TODAY, I'd take TCU on a neutral field.
Title: Re: Winningest Active Coaches
Post by: boartitz on November 13, 2009, 08:07:20 PM
I never took the bet...but if I did, TODAY, I'd take TCU on a neutral field.
I don't think I would bet on TCU against any SEC team. Anywhere. Really.
I'm not saying they couldn't slip up and beat one, but bet on it, no.
Title: Re: Winningest Active Coaches
Post by: wesfau2 on November 13, 2009, 09:38:09 PM
Never said it wasn't difficult.  It can be done. 

Except that no one...ever...has done so on a consistent basis.  Even McCarney (longest tenured and most successful coach in ISU history) left with a sub-40% winning percentage.

Quote
Patterson would win at ISU, you can bank on that.


You're a talented writer.  You can argue a point occasionally.  But shit like this makes me shake my head and chuckle at you.  No one can say what you said above with any certainty at all.  It's a positively moronic statement predicated on nothing more than conjecture and wishful thinking.
Title: Re: Winningest Active Coaches
Post by: Jumbo on November 14, 2009, 02:25:18 AM
Except that no one...ever...has done so on a consistent basis.  Even McCarney (longest tenured and most successful coach in ISU history) left with a sub-40% winning percentage.

You're a talented writer.  You can argue a point occasionally.  But shit like this makes me shake my head and chuckle at you.  No one can say what you said above with any certainty at all.  It's a positively moronic statement predicated on nothing more than conjecture and wishful thinking.
Only 1 coach in the past 75 years has left Isu with a winning record! In the early 80's, he won 2 more than he lost.
Title: Re: Winningest Active Coaches
Post by: Kaos on November 14, 2009, 08:40:37 AM

You're a talented writer.  You can argue a point occasionally.  But poop like this makes me shake my head and chuckle at you.  No one can say what you said above with any certainty at all.  It's a positively moronic statement predicated on nothing more than conjecture and wishful thinking.

No....

It's my considered opinion based on the evidence in front of me.  

Go all the way back to 1960 with TCU.  Between 1960 and Patterson's first year as head coach there, the Horned Frogs had two seven win seasons, two eight win seasons and one ten-win season.  

In that same 41 year span, TCU had 28 seasons of four or fewer wins.  

Back it on up if you want to.  Between 1938 and 1960 -- another 22 years -- a total of seven seasons with seven or more wins.  Ten of four or fewer.  

So in the 63 years before Patterson arrived, TCU had a total of 12 seasons of seven or more wins.  That's 19%.  In that 63 year span, TCU had two seasons of ten or more wins (one of those coming in 1938).  3%.  

SIXTY percent of the time, TCU was a four-win team or worse. 

Guess what, wes?  That's ISU bad.  It's worse than ISU.

Since Patterson?  Six seasons of ten or more wins.  No seasons of four or fewer.  He's been there nine years.  Six of his nine teams (67%) have won ten or more games. 

TCU's beaten Northwestern, Southern Miss, Louisville, Houston, Tulane, Vanderbilt (30-13), Arizona, South Florida, Cincy, Army, Oklahoma, Utah (and Meyer), Wyoming, New Mexico, Air Force, Iowa State, BYU, Baylor, Texas Tech, Stanford and Boise State during that span. 

So you can't even use the inferior competition ruse.

As for somebody who said he's "a defensive guy, like Tuberville" it should be noted that his teams score an average of about 380 points a season (Nearly 32 ppg) which is better than all but one of Tub's seasons.   

If he can do it at TCU in a similar "nobody can win there" situation, and do it as consistently as he has, there's no logical reason to believe he couldn't have similar results at ISU.  

The only moron here is.... well..... not me.  

People should do their fucking homework. 
Title: Re: Winningest Active Coaches
Post by: eagleair89 on November 14, 2009, 08:56:18 AM
the type/quality of player that TCU gets has not changed much if any since 1960.

Since 1996 the quality/type of opponent TCU faces has been downgraded significantly.

make of it what you will.

WAR EAGLE
 :wartim:
Title: Re: Winningest Active Coaches
Post by: Kaos on November 14, 2009, 09:20:06 AM
the type/quality of player that TCU gets has not changed much if any since 1960.

Since 1996 the quality/type of opponent TCU faces has been downgraded significantly.

make of it what you will.

WAR EAGLE
 :wartim:

Northwestern, Southern Miss, Louisville, Houston, Tulane, Vanderbilt (30-13), Arizona, South Florida, Cincy, Army, Oklahoma, Utah (and Meyer), Wyoming, New Mexico, Air Force, Iowa State, BYU, Baylor, Texas Tech, Stanford and Boise State. 

Says you're not thinking straight. 

A quick check of the schedules shows not a whole lot of difference, but I only went back to the 80s.  Same basic teams:  Baylor, Rice, USM, Western Michigan, blah, blah, blah. 

Definitely not a "significant downgrade" by any stretch. 
Title: Re: Winningest Active Coaches
Post by: eagleair89 on November 14, 2009, 09:23:15 AM
Northwestern, Southern Miss, Louisville, Houston, Tulane, Vanderbilt (30-13), Arizona, South Florida, Cincy, Army, Oklahoma, Utah (and Meyer), Wyoming, New Mexico, Air Force, Iowa State, BYU, Baylor, Texas Tech, Stanford and Boise State.  

Says you're not thinking straight.  

A quick check of the schedules shows not a whole lot of difference, but I only went back to the 80s.  Same basic teams:  Baylor, Rice, USM, Western Michigan, blah, blah, blah.  

Definitely not a "significant downgrade" by any stretch.  

try another cup of coffee and look again.

if you want to go on comparing the old SWC to the current MWC....ok, have fun...I am off  the Athens  :)

WAR EAGLE
 :wartim:
Title: Re: Winningest Active Coaches
Post by: Kaos on November 14, 2009, 09:28:19 AM
try another cup of coffee and look again.

if you want to go on comparing the old SWC to the current MWC....ok, have fun...I am off  the Athens  :)

WAR EAGLE
 :wartim:

Don't drink coffee.  And there's no need.  

Not a significant difference.   The list of teams I gave you speaks for itself.  And those are just the wins (some of them multiples).
Title: Re: Winningest Active Coaches
Post by: wesfau2 on November 14, 2009, 09:39:55 AM
No....

It's my considered opinion based on the evidence in front of me.  

Blah...blah

If he can do it at TCU in a similar "nobody can win there" situation, and do it as consistently as he has, there's no logical reason to believe he couldn't have similar results at ISU.  

The only moron here is.... well..... not me.  

People should do their fucking homework. 


Fuck you and your fucking homework. There is no way to draw direct comparisons like you're attempting to do between two programs that are on different levels within their sport, playing different opponents each year.

So, you may hold the "considered opinion" that you do, but it is still laughable.
Title: Re: Winningest Active Coaches
Post by: Kaos on November 14, 2009, 09:56:39 AM
phuk you and your phuking homework. There is no way to draw direct comparisons like you're attempting to do between two programs that are on different levels within their sport, playing different opponents each year.

So, you may hold the "considered opinion" that you do, but it is still laughable.

Actually, wes, that's the ONLY way to make comparisons -- based on the evidence presented.  Similar situations you can expect similar results.  Obviously you can't take Patterson and plunk him down in Ames as an experiment, so if you're going to make a judgement, you have to take what is there and make a critical evaluation.

Why do you hire someone (unless you're Jay Jacobs and looking at your shit on toilet paper trying to discern some meaning)?  You hire them because their past performance in a situation indicates that they might be a good candidate for the position in question. 

Why did Alabama hire Nick Saban?  Because they liked his vocabulary?  You look at what they've done in the past and predict what they will do in the future in a similar situation.

Based on the circumstances at both TCU and ISU, the evidence suggests (quite strongly) that Patterson would succeed at ISU. 

The only -- ONLY -- conjecture and bullshit here is on the part of those who have zero evidence to the contrary and attempt to make that argument. 

I've shown you ample evidence of Patterson's ability to take a situation just as dire as ISU and completely alter the dynamic. 

Why don't you show me some proof that he isn't capable of doing so?   Until then, wes ?  The laugh is on you. 

Title: Re: Winningest Active Coaches
Post by: jmar on November 14, 2009, 12:30:31 PM
No one "succeeds" at ISU. Florida can make anyone look good. TCU is probably pulling off of A&M's recent failures and Richt's days are numbered at UG. Two on the list are legends, but now dinosaurs. Jimbo Fisher is similar to Richt. 

Carroll makes marginal opponents look much better than they are.

TCU and Cincy are the new WVU and VaTech and they will not last.

Petrino made Louisville viable for a couple of years and Rutgers is Syracuse with a head coach.

Good coach- bad league or vice versa. Location and timing. You can't use a toilet in an urban McDonalds, but they can still turn a profit without quality or hygiene. I know, I know, WTF!

 
Title: Re: Winningest Active Coaches
Post by: wesfau2 on November 14, 2009, 02:42:52 PM
Actually, wes, that's the ONLY way to make comparisons -- based on the evidence presented.  Similar situations you can expect similar results.  Obviously you can't take Patterson and plunk him down in Ames as an experiment, so if you're going to make a judgement, you have to take what is there and make a critical evaluation.

Why do you hire someone (unless you're Jay Jacobs and looking at your shit on toilet paper trying to discern some meaning)?  You hire them because their past performance in a situation indicates that they might be a good candidate for the position in question. 

Why did Alabama hire Nick Saban?  Because they liked his vocabulary?  You look at what they've done in the past and predict what they will do in the future in a similar situation.

Based on the circumstances at both TCU and ISU, the evidence suggests (quite strongly) that Patterson would succeed at ISU. 

The only -- ONLY -- conjecture and bullshit here is on the part of those who have zero evidence to the contrary and attempt to make that argument. 

I've shown you ample evidence of Patterson's ability to take a situation just as dire as ISU and completely alter the dynamic. 

Why don't you show me some proof that he isn't capable of doing so?   Until then, wes ?  The laugh is on you. 



Fair enough. Caught me prior to my caffeine this morning.

I was taking issue with your laughable sense of certainty in your "considered opinion."
Title: Re: Winningest Active Coaches
Post by: RWS on November 14, 2009, 02:54:00 PM
TCU and Cincy are the new WVU and VaTech and they will not last.
Wait, what is this TCU will not last? Its not like the success they have is newfound.

2002: 10-2
2003: 11-2
2004: 5-6
2005: 11-1
2006: 11-2
2007: 8-5
2008: 11-2
2009: 9-0

Thats 76-20 over 8 years, and not bad. Looks like they have a rebuilding year every few years, but other than that, seem to be OK.
Title: Re: Winningest Active Coaches
Post by: jmar on November 14, 2009, 05:28:44 PM
Out of the SWC since '94, this team has found its niche in lesser conferences against inferior opponents. All hail TCU! Nice run though I agree.
Title: Re: Winningest Active Coaches
Post by: The Prowler on November 14, 2009, 06:14:18 PM
Based on the circumstances at both TCU and ISU, the evidence suggests (quite strongly) that Patterson would succeed at ISU. 

Why don't you show me some proof that he isn't capable of doing so?   Until then, wes ?  The laugh is on you. 
Here ya go...... :popcorn:

Gary Patterson 1996-1998 Idaho Vandals HC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Patterson)

Head coaching record
1996 UI 6–5 (3–2)
1997 UI 5–6 (2–3)
1998 UI 3–9 (1–4)
 
Idaho: 14–20 (6–9)
Title: Re: Winningest Active Coaches
Post by: jmar on November 14, 2009, 08:36:41 PM
Okay history shows two seasons of success at ISU are possible. It is a place to make a name until some school notices you and nothing more.
Title: Re: Winningest Active Coaches
Post by: Jumbo on November 15, 2009, 07:16:33 AM
Here ya go...... :popcorn:

Gary Patterson 1996-1998 Idaho Vandals HC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Patterson)

Head coaching record
1996 UI 6–5 (3–2)
1997 UI 5–6 (2–3)
1998 UI 3–9 (1–4)
 
Idaho: 14–20 (6–9)
:pwnd: