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The Library => Haley Center Basement => Topic started by: RWS on May 27, 2009, 11:46:54 AM
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I'm so fed up with North Korea. I think the main problem here is, our president has pretty much made public a policy of talking until we cannot breathe anymore, with no threat of actually following through on anything. NK is not scared of the UN. They don't care about the people that reside in their country, and they are hell bent on pulling us into a conflict. Personally, thats fine with me. They are crazy as a shit house rat over there, and there is no telling what lengths they would go to for an opportunity to strike against our mainland given the time to develop more advanced arms. It was one thing when they showed no progress with their weapons systems, but the shit is getting real now. We know that their intent is to make a nuclear weapon that can strike as far away as possible. The North has already said that publically during some of their saber-rattling sessions.
One possibility, I suppose, is to give them enough rope in the world's eyes to hang themselves. At this point it would be iffy in the global community for us to rock their shit over some talk. I think if they took some sort of action against S. Korea or something, that would be enough for us to jump in. I doubt it would require any troops on the ground, and I really doubt you would actually want to put troops on the ground either. I don't see it as an Iraq invasion type scenario. Maybe I'm just an asshole, I don't know. America really needs to take a stance on this, and not be pussies about it.
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I'm so fed up with North Korea. I think the main problem here is, our president has pretty much made public a policy of talking until we cannot breathe anymore, with no threat of actually following through on anything. NK is not scared of the UN.
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NK setting off a nuclear device and launching numerous missiles the past few days has been in my opinion the biggest news item of the year and the world is doing nothing. And Mr. Obama thinks he can negotiate with this pot-bellied tyrant. Despite that they are holding a large portion of our Treasury Bills I still think that we need to force this issue on China; they need us as much as we apparently need them. This little turd is China's problem and they should be held accountable to solve this situation.
Short of that a well placed nuclear bomb in Pyong Yang is the only answer.
And if you think Kim Jong-ill is crazy as a march hare wait until the Mullahs in Iran or Chavez get their paws on a nuclear weapon.
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I guess that The ONE could try and assuage Mr. ill by sending former Clintonista Sec-State Madelyn Albright over to clink champagne glasses with him again.
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I know technically, this probably goes in the political forum, but I want some input from more than the 4 who actually post there. In Seinfeld voice.."What's the deal..with North Korea?"
Seriously, does anyone here follow this enough to know what the hell has put the burr in their saddle? I realize they're consistently in the news for sword rattling about this and that, but why the sudden escalation? In the last two days alone, they're testing missles, getting their nuke facilities geared up and now they're threatening to invade South Korea.
And if that fat little Korean fucker does decide to do something like that, what would be the response. I would not think that after the last few years, that America is in any position to get caught up in a battle with a super power like N. Korea, are we? If there is a response, you can bet your ass it would be America while the rest of the world protests. Or, would Obama take a completely different approach if something like that were to break out?
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Seriously, does anyone here follow this enough to know what the hell has put the burr in their saddle?
Hans Brix.
He's breakin' their balls.
Kim Jong Il is just a rittle ronery.
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Hans Brix.
He's breakin' their balls.
Kim Jong Il is just a rittle ronery.
It will be 911 times 2356
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I love how after North Korea successfully tested a nuclear bomb, Obama gave a speech that consisted of "North Korea better not do that again or we're going to be really, really angry with you!"
It was straight out of Team Fucking America.
"We're going to write you very angry letters! So....you better stop!"
Bush would have already sent in the troops and hung the mission accomplished banner. Not saying it would have been intelligent or correct, but at least he got shit done.
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The threat to attack S. Korea just boggles my mind. We don't like the way shit's going soooooo....we're just gonna' fuck with South Korea.
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The threat to attack S. Korea just boggles my mind. We don't like the way shit's going soooooo....we're just gonna' fuck with South Korea.
He wants to be taken seriously. If you were trying to become the world's bully, you would have to actually bully someone.
Kim doesn't know what he's doing, though. Hopefully, if he starts shit, the U.S. of Mother F'n A will show him what the world's true bully looks like.
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I am with rws (Fuck me! I can't believe I said that) but I too am fed up with NK. Of course I have been fed up with Kim Jong for a while. It's been pretty obvious to anyone who has been paying attention that for the past 4 to 6 years he has been acting like a little kid. Make enough noise so people will see what all the commotion is about, but once he gets too loud he backs off a little and pushes further and further each time.
Of course, this is all that damn Bush's fault. He tired to warn people about Kim Jong over 5 years ago..........wait, what?
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The threat to attack S. Korea just boggles my mind. We don't like the way shit's going soooooo....we're just gonna' fuck with South Korea.
The thing that boggles my mind is here we have this deranged, nuclear armed, madman who also has missiles to threaten our regional allies and what is The ONE doing? Cutting the missile defense program.
http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=1573231 (http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=1573231)
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I am with rws (Fuck me! I can't believe I said that) but I too am fed up with NK. Of course I have been fed up with Kim Jong for a while. It's been pretty obvious to anyone who has been paying attention that for the past 4 to 6 years he has been acting like a little kid. Make enough noise so people will see what all the commotion is about, but once he gets too loud he backs off a little and pushes further and further each time.
Of course, this is all that damn Bush's fault. He tired to warn people about Kim Jong over 5 years ago..........wait, what?
It's been going on a lot longer than that, AUTiger1. I made a brief reference to it above but I recall Clinton arranging a 'deal' with that fucking tyrant to provide Light Water Nuclear Reactors strictly for energy needs just to assuage NK from further nuclear bomb development. That's what led to Albright going there and clinking champagne glasses with that little turd. You see how far that arrangement got us.
But, you're right, it's all Bush's fault.
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The thing that boggles my mind is here we have this deranged, nuclear armed, madman who also has missiles to threaten our regional allies and what is The ONE doing? Cutting the missile defense program.
http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=1573231 (http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=1573231)
Because if missiles are outlawed, only outlaws will have missiles.
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It's been going on a lot longer than that, AUTiger1. I made a brief reference to it above but I recall Clinton arranging a 'deal' with that fucking tyrant to provide Light Water Nuclear Reactors strictly for energy needs just to assuage NK from further nuclear bomb development. That's what led to Albright going there and clinking champagne glasses with that little turd. You see how far that arrangement got us.
But, you're right, it's all Bush's fault.
NK has probably pushed harder in the past two weeks than he ever pushed the Bush administration.
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It's been going on a lot longer than that, AUTiger1. I made a brief reference to it above but I recall Clinton arranging a 'deal' with that fucking tyrant to provide Light Water Nuclear Reactors strictly for energy needs just to assuage NK from further nuclear bomb development. That's what led to Albright going there and clinking champagne glasses with that little turd. You see how far that arrangement got us.
But, you're right, it's all Bush's fault.
:doh:
Damn how did I let that slip my mind, temporary brain freeze!
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It's been going on a lot longer than that, AUTiger1. I made a brief reference to it above but I recall Clinton arranging a 'deal' with that fucking tyrant to provide Light Water Nuclear Reactors strictly for energy needs just to assuage NK from further nuclear bomb development. That's what led to Albright going there and clinking champagne glasses with that little turd. You see how far that arrangement got us.
But, you're right, it's all Bush's fault.
How dare you question the Clintons. They know what is best for you.
Prepare to be whisked away for a few days of enlightenment very shortly.
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NK has probably pushed harder in the past two weeks than he ever pushed the Bush administration.
Well, Biden did say that The ONE would be tested during the first few months of his administration.
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How dare you question the Clintons. They know what is best for you.
Prepare to be whisked away for a few days of enlightenment very shortly.
Yes, the Clintons (and all Democrats socialists) only have our best interest at heart and are as pure as the wind-driven snow.
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Sorry, just saw the Korea thread in the Politico forum. RWS and others say they're fed up with NK. I have no problem with that; however, I have to lean more towards Tarheel's take that this should be China's baby. I fully understand that they could/have develop(ed) missiles capable of reaching the U.S. (Well, 12 crab fishermen on the Bearing Sea). But, why the U.S.? Why the fuck should a military that's already engaged in a war and has been for years, have to spearhead a fight against NK? This is NOT Iraq or Afghanistan or any other country of towel headed car bombers. An all out war with these folks will automatically be termed WWIII. This is in everybody's back yard except ours. And regardless of whether Obama would have the nads to make the call or not, this country does NOT need to get caught up in this shit...or at least not be the aggressors in taking it on.
China and the REST of the wimpy ass countries around the world need to step up and squash this shit.
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The questions that come to mind (After my post in Haley Center)
1. Would Obama be best served by rallying the U.N. and the rest of the world to take the lead in this or is going to America...AGAIN...jumping in feet first while the rest of the world protests?
2. If Obama has the berries to make the call, do we have a military capable right now of taking them on? I don't even claim to have much knowledge in that area, but it would seem logical that a country that has basically been at war for years now, would be stretched too thin to mobilize anything formidable enough to challenge NK.
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Sorry, just saw the Korea thread in the Politico forum. RWS and others say they're fed up with NK. I have no problem with that; however, I have to lean more towards Tarheel's take that this should be China's baby. I fully understand that they could/have develop(ed) missiles capable of reaching the U.S. (Well, 12 crab fishermen on the Bearing Sea). But, why the U.S.? Why the fuck should a military that's already engaged in a war and has been for years, have to spearhead a fight against NK? This is NOT Iraq or Afghanistan or any other country of towel headed car bombers. An all out war with these folks will automatically be termed WWIII. This is in everybody's back yard except ours. And regardless of whether Obama would have the nads to make the call or not, this country does NOT need to get caught up in this shit...or at least not be the aggressors in taking it on.
China and the REST of the wimpy ass countries around the world need to step up and squash this shit.
Why do hate the "Deadliest Catch"?
In all seriousness I was one of the ones that is fed up with Kim Jong, but that has taken place over many years and in the past I have been on the "China needs to get off their commie asses and step up to the plate" and I still am. I agree that we don't need to be "the aggressors in taking it on", but I don't think we have a choice but to be caught up into it.
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China and the REST of the wimpy ass countries around the world need to step up and squash this shit.
And this is exactly why if anything is to be done it will fall at our feet again.
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The questions that come to mind (After my post in Haley Center)
1. Would Obama be best served by rallying the U.N. and the rest of the world to take the lead in this or is going to America...AGAIN...jumping in feet first while the rest of the world protests?
2. If Obama has the berries to make the call, do we have a military capable right now of taking them on? I don't even claim to have much knowledge in that area, but it would seem logical that a country that has basically been at war for years now, would be stretched too thin to mobilize anything formidable enough to challenge NK.
I guess call it "American arrogance", or maybe I'm not educated enough in such things, but I don't really see us wanting to commit a bunch of troops to march right down the main drag. I could definitely see us making some missile strikes (Shock and Awe), and severely crippling their military capabilities. But then again, I'm all about getting the job done right the first time too. I don't want to see us go in there and halfass it, then 10 years later we're right back where we started and they have a REALLY good reason to try and get back at us. I say if we do it, do the damn thing. But like you, I can't see where we could really commit troops to this. There are about 25,000 troops based in South Korea right now. It would take much more than that if you plan on sending them in. Airstrikes are the way to go.
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The questions that come to mind (After my post in Haley Center)
1. Would Obama be best served by rallying the U.N. and the rest of the world to take the lead in this or is going to America...AGAIN...jumping in feet first while the rest of the world protests?
2. If Obama has the berries to make the call, do we have a military capable right now of taking them on? I don't even claim to have much knowledge in that area, but it would seem logical that a country that has basically been at war for years now, would be stretched too thin to mobilize anything formidable enough to challenge NK.
*DISCLAIMER* This is just my humble opinion so it really doesn't amount to shit.
1. Rallying China, Japan, Russia and several others from that region, most especially China is the route to take. That entire region has a lot to be worried about if they can be hit by a nuke that Kim Jong can launch. Is that what will happen? IDK, just like the rest of us.
2. To be honest I don't think that we can mobilize a "fighting force" capable of doing anything more than "policing the area" right now. We are, if the reports are accurate, stretched too thin right now to jump in feet first and taking it to them.
Just my take, someone with more knowledge may give better answers.
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Why do hate the "Deadliest Catch"?
In all seriousness I was one of the ones that is fed up with Kim Jong, but that has taken place over many years and in the past I have been on the "China needs to get off their commie asses and step up to the plate" and I still am. I agree that we don't need to be "the aggressors in taking it on", but I don't think we have a choice but to be caught up into it.
I'm going back and forth between here and the thread in the political forum. I'll ask these questions.
1. Is Obama better served to rally the UN and the rest of the world in taking the lead on this or if he does show the berries to take them on....
2. Do we have the capabilities right now to mobilize a force that could take them on? The U.S. has been at war on several fronts for quite a few years now. How would they even be able to drop the towel head fight and start over with a new war.....and what would be a MAJOR all out war?
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I'm going back and forth between here and the thread in the political forum.
Same here, I responded over in the SGA.
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Bottom line, when it comes down to it, the US would knock NK's dick in the dirt. You know it. I know it. The rest of the world knows it. NK sure as fuck knows it. Thats why I highly doubt you actually see them make a move. They know if they attacked South Korea or any of our allies, we would bury them. There is alot of common logic in the situation that everybody knows. The big wildcard here is Kim Jong is crazy as a shithouse rat. Even though logic tells him they will be crushed, he doesn't care. He obviously doesn't care about the people of his country, and I don't think he has long to live in this world naturally anyway. So, what does he have to lose?
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Merged. flex thy mod powers.
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The questions that come to mind (After my post in Haley Center)
1. Would Obama be best served by rallying the U.N. and the rest of the world to take the lead in this or is going to America...AGAIN...jumping in feet first while the rest of the world protests?
2. If Obama has the berries to make the call, do we have a military capable right now of taking them on? I don't even claim to have much knowledge in that area, but it would seem logical that a country that has basically been at war for years now, would be stretched too thin to mobilize anything formidable enough to challenge NK.
In all seriousness I must ask what can anyone do with this maniac? The time to do something was BEFORE this insect was nuclear armed. Honestly, it's just too late to take military action in my opinion. One nuclear warhead detonated in Seoul and it's all over; and the turd is fully capable of doing it.
To further exacerbate the issue this turd has demonstrated that negotiations are useless. The Clintons tried to practice 'containment and appeasement' with NK but that got us nothing; the Bush Administration did make a good faith attempt to restart the 6 Party negotiation but here again that has achieved nothing.
The ONE might be able to rally the U.N. and the rest of the world but what are they going to do...write a letter and practice appeasement again?
The only meaningful way to solve this problem is to flush the turd(s). Maybe whose left over can be persuaded to disarm like Libya did; it is possible. And as much as I despise the Chi-comms I think that China can be a real help in this regard.
Just my two cents anyway.
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What is the relationship between China and N. Korea? Both Communist countries, correct? Any chance (Just thinking out loud) they're working together to bait the aggressive Americans into a war with N. Korea and then China jumps in with both feet?
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What is the relationship between China and N. Korea? Both Communist countries, correct? Any chance (Just thinking out loud) they're working together to bait the aggressive Americans into a war with N. Korea and then China jumps in with both feet?
Not sure to what end? China has a pretty large stake in us by the bank notes they hold.
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What is the relationship between China and N. Korea? Both Communist countries, correct? Any chance (Just thinking out loud) they're working together to bait the aggressive Americans into a war with N. Korea and then China jumps in with both feet?
China provides most of their food and the majority of their oil, plus they have a land border with North Korea. If you think about it, if the world actually does take action against NK that is going to fuck up some of China's revenue. Then factor in the number of refugees fleeing NK that will enter or attempt to enter China.
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You remember that thing we had about 30 years ago called the Korean conflict? And how we failed to achieve victory? How come we didn't cross the 38th parallel and push those rice-eaters back to the Great Wall of China? Then take the fucking wall apart brick by brick and nuke them back into the fucking stone age forever? Tell me why! How come? Say it! Say it!
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China provides most of their food and the majority of their oil, plus they have a land border with North Korea. If you think about it, if the world actually does take action against NK that is going to fuck up some of China's revenue. Then factor in the number of refugees fleeing NK that will enter or attempt to enter China.
China makes almost nothing from the food products and other goods that it provides to North Korea. Most of what they provide amounts to foreign aid according to this article. Here's a quote:
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The relationship between North Korea and China is a product of history and geography. The 850-mile border with China is North Korea's main connection to the outside world -- given that the DMZ bordering South Korea is as fortified as ever. Virtually all flights in and out of North Korea pass through China.
Even as North Korea has tested nuclear weapons, test-fired missiles and generally made a nuisance of itself in the neighborhood, Beijing has supplied its old ally with goods varying from fuel to fertilizer, corn to cosmetics, shoes, clothing and electronics. Chinese exports to North Korea last year amounted to $2 billion.
North Korea isn't the only country where everything has "Made in China" stamped on it. But North Korea isn't able to pay the bill, so much of the trade is tantamount to aid.
Nicholas Eberstadt, an economist with the American Enterprise Institute, recently analyzed North Korea's trade imbalance with China and concluded that Beijing's support to Pyongyang has in effect quadrupled since 2004.
He contends that China is playing a two-faced game -- supporting the U.S.-led effort to stop weapons proliferation while propping up Kim's regime.
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This is actually a very germane article about this discussion and worth reading:
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-fg-china-korea27-2009may27,0,4005894.story (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-fg-china-korea27-2009may27,0,4005894.story)
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You remember that thing we had about 30 years ago called the Korean conflict? And how we failed to achieve victory? How come we didn't cross the 38th parallel and push those rice-eaters back to the Great Wall of China? Then take the fucking wall apart brick by brick and nuke them back into the fucking stone age forever? Tell me why! How come? Say it! Say it!
All right. I'll say it. 'Cause Truman was too much of a pussy to let MacArthur go in there and blow out those Commie bastards!
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All right. I'll say it. 'Cause Truman was too much of a pussy to let MacArthur go in there and blow out those Commie bastards!
I'm gonna be watching you.
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All right. I'll say it. 'Cause Truman was too much of a pussy to let MacArthur go in there and blow out those Commie bastards!
Good answer...good answer. I like the way you think
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If the damn Democrat Kennedy would have gotten the Bay of Pigs right and not taken away Black Bag ops, this situation would have been dealt with long ago, but thats just my opinion.
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All right. I'll say it. 'Cause Truman was too much of a pussy to let MacArthur go in there and blow out those Commie bastards!
Someone quick! Buy this man a drink!
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Good answer...good answer. I like the way you think
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bfgrj_62-Y&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bfgrj_62-Y&feature=related)
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If the damn Democrat Kennedy would have gotten the Bay of Pigs right and not taken away Black Bag ops, this situation would have been dealt with long ago, but thats just my opinion.
Yes, I know you were making a movie reference but it is true.
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The only meaningful way to solve this problem is to flush the turd(s).
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Yes, I know you were making a movie reference but it is true.
Actually the Korean Conflict was the movie reference. The opinion of Kennedy and Black Bag Ops were my actual thoughts. I know its hard to tell the difference, I have a hard time myself sometimes.
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We know where the Troll Doll's reactors are. I think surgical strikes bombing the fuck out of NK would resolve a lot of issues.
1. The immediate threat would be gone.
2. No one other than a few NKs give a fuck about NK. They are leeches with a nuclear bomb. I am not so sure that there would be much response except for a few "You pissed in our backyard" statements from the ChiComs and Russia. Big fucking whoop. We use surgical precision to excise a tumor that everyone else obviously wants gone and no one else has to get their hands dirty. We did that to Libya and got some throat clearing from the UN and that was about it. What is China or Russia gonna do? Invade Alaska as retailliation for an attack on NK? Please.
3. Our guys would get some valuable live action target practice. Sweet.
Now, do I think the ONE has the stones to do that?
Not a fucking chance.
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The little rat bastard should have been taken out long ago. Now that the ball less one is in office kim jong is gonna try and see just how much obama will take. I'm positive the one has the UN on this...who will prompty threaten to sanction etc., etc...
The bitch of it is how the media will end up spinning whatever happens. Bet your ass before it's over it will be W's fault.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0hk9vaqWUg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0hk9vaqWUg)
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Actually the Korean Conflict was the movie reference. The opinion of Kennedy and Black Bag Ops were my actual thoughts. I know its hard to tell the difference, I have a hard time myself sometimes.
OK, I'll just hang up now and get back to listening to teh AM radio.
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I hope that you all will indulge my late post on this issue but another thought came to my mind on this issue; especially after watching a spirited discussion about it on Fox News Sunday this morning.
Japan and South Korea are both regional allies and as such are de facto protected by our 'nuclear umbrella' but I was surprised to hear that neither nation is actually nuclear armed. That could fairly easily be remedied by the US. Not sure if this would help for us to do so in an immediate sense but it would certainly change the dynamics of our relationship with the Chi-comms and the Russkies in terms of putting pressure on them to solve this problem with their pot-bellied, god-less communist dictator friend in Pyongyang. Even the threat of our arming South Korea and Japan (or, perhaps, the Republic of China {Taiwan}, eh?) could change the situation.
Anyway, just a thought before I forgot it.
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I hope that you all will indulge my late post on this issue but another thought came to my mind on this issue; especially after watching a spirited discussion about it on Fox News Sunday this morning.
Japan and South Korea are both regional allies and as such are de facto protected by our 'nuclear umbrella' but I was surprised to hear that neither nation is actually nuclear armed. That could fairly easily be remedied by the US. Not sure if this would help for us to do so in an immediate sense but it would certainly change the dynamics of our relationship with the Chi-comms and the Russkies in terms of putting pressure on them to solve this problem with their pot-bellied, god-less communist dictator friend in Pyongyang. Even the threat of our arming South Korea and Japan (or, perhaps, the Republic of China {Taiwan}, eh?) could change the situation.
Anyway, just a thought before I forgot it.
I'm pretty sure the treaty signed after WWII stipulates that Japan can never become a nuclear power, and that they cannot have a fighting force per se, only a "defense force".
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All right. I'll say it. 'Cause Truman was too much of a pussy to let MacArthur go in there and blow out those Commie bastards!
And Bush 1 was too much of a pussy to let Schwarzkopf finish Saddam when we had all the tools sitting there ready willing and able.
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I'm pretty sure the treaty signed after WWII stipulates that Japan can never become a nuclear power, and that they cannot have a fighting force per se, only a "defense force".
Never say never with human beings.
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Well my opinion doesn't count for much, besides I'm one of those damn democrats you guys seem to hate (I'm to poor to be a republican), but I believe I'd have to agree with TigerWench. If the nuclear weapons are the problem, fly a couple of stealth bombers over there and take them out. Seems like I read somewhere you can blow them up without actually setting them off, but maybe not. If it takes them another 5 or 10 years to put the program back together, just blow it apart again then.
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As a follow-up it looks like the UN is going to send another letter to the little NK tyrant after all. Surprisingly, China and Russia have actually agreed to back a draft resolution to "curb" loans to North Korea in addition to continuing the interdiction of cargo to and from NK. The real proof of China's and Russia's support will come if their U. N. representatives sign on to the real resolution in coming days.
Here's an excerpt from Bloomberg:
China, Russia Agree to Back U.S. on North Korea Curbs (Update2)
By Bill Varner
June 10 (Bloomberg) -- China and Russia will back a United Nations draft resolution that would seek to curb loans and money transfers to North Korea as punishment for its nuclear-bomb test and missile launches, U.S. and Japanese diplomats said.
The U.S., Japan, China, Russia, Britain, France and South Korea agreed on the text during negotiations after North Korea detonated a nuclear bomb on May 25, U.S. Ambassador Susan Rice said. Support from China and Russia, which have resisted tighter sanctions on North Korea, makes it likely the draft resolution will be adopted unanimously this week.
The text calls for the interdiction at seaports, airports or in international waters of any cargo suspected of containing nuclear or missile-related materials going to or from North Korea. It would prohibit the refueling or servicing of such vessels at sea, and would require any ship to proceed to a convenient port for inspection in the event consent for boarding is refused.
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Full article:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601085&sid=aLHFniH1sBD0 (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601085&sid=aLHFniH1sBD0)