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The Library => The SGA => Topic started by: Tiger Wench on April 17, 2009, 08:26:13 PM
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My boss went to U of Virginia for undergrad. From a friend of his. I am nauseous. I suspected as much. Decisive action my ass. There should be a crater in Somalia for every day of the standoff and a crater for every hostage killed subsequent to the recent news that they plan to target Americans in the future. This should have been a routine training exercise, not a four day empowerment class for terrorists. Ronald Reagan is rolling in his grave.
Having spoken to some SEAL pals here in Virginia Beach yesterday and asking why this thing dragged out for 4 days, I got the following:
1. BHO wouldn't authorize the DEVGRU/NSWC SEAL teams to the scene for 36 hours going against OSC (on scene commander) recommendation.
2. Once they arrived, BHO imposed restrictions on their ROE that they couldn't do anything unless the hostage's life was in "imminent" danger
3. The first time the hostage jumped, the SEALS had the raggies all sighted in, but could not fire due to ROE restriction
4. When the navy RIB came under fire as it approached with supplies, no fire was returned due to ROE restrictions. As the raggies were shooting at the RIB, they were exposed and the SEALS had them all dialed in.
5. BHO specifically denied two rescue plans developed by the Bainbridge CPN and SEAL teams
6. Bainbridge CPN and SEAL team CDR finally decide they have the OpArea and OSC authority to solely determine risk to hostage. 4 hours later, 3 dead raggies
7. BHO immediately claims credit for his "daring and decisive" behaviour. As usual with him, it's BS.
So per our last email thread, I'm downgrading Oohbaby's performace to D-. Only reason it's not an F is that the hostage survived.
Read the following accurate account.
Philips’ first leap into the warm, dark water of the Indian Ocean hadn’t worked out as well. With the Bainbridge in range and a rescue by his country’s Navy possible, Philips threw himself off of his lifeboat prison, enabling Navy shooters onboard the destroyer a clear shot at his captors — and none was taken.
The guidance from National Command Authority — the president of the United States, Barack Obama — had been clear: a peaceful solution was the only acceptable outcome to this standoff unless the hostage’s life was in clear, extreme danger.
The next day, a small Navy boat approaching the floating raft was fired on by the Somali pirates — and again no fire was returned and no pirates killed. This was again due to the cautious stance assumed by Navy personnel thanks to the combination of a lack of clear guidance from Washington and a mandate from the commander in chief’s staff not to act until Obama, a man with no background of dealing with such issues and no track record of decisiveness, decided that any outcome other than a “peaceful solution” would be acceptable.
After taking fire from the Somali kidnappers again Saturday night, the on scene commander decided he’d had enough.
Keeping his authority to act in the case of a clear and present danger to the hostage’s life and having heard nothing from Washington since yet another request to mount a rescue operation had been denied the day before, the Navy officer — unnamed in all media reports to date — decided the AK47 one captor had leveled at Philips’ back was a threat to the hostage’s life and ordered the NSWC team to take their shots.
Three rounds downrange later, all three brigands became enemy KIA and Philips was safe.
There is upside, downside, and spinside to the series of events over the last week that culminated in yesterday’s dramatic rescue of an American hostage.
Almost immediately following word of the rescue, the Obama administration and its supporters claimed victory against pirates in the Indian Ocean and [1] declared that the dramatic end to the standoff put paid to questions of the inexperienced president’s toughness and decisiveness.
Despite the Obama administration’s (and its sycophants’) attempt to spin yesterday’s success as a result of bold, decisive leadership by the inexperienced president, the reality is nothing of the sort. What should have been a standoff lasting only hours — as long as it took the USS Bainbridge and its team of NSWC operators to steam to the location — became an embarrassing four day and counting standoff between a ragtag handful of criminals with rifles and a U.S. Navy warship.
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And the headlines today show Irocked Yomama shaking hands and rubbing penises with none other than Hugo Chavez like two long lost fuck buddies. Wow...we gots us some change.
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This country is becoming fucked up as a football bat.
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And the headlines today show Irocked Yomama shaking hands and rubbing penises with none other than Hugo Chavez like two long lost fuck buddies. Wow...we gots us some change.
:puke:
I don't really have the words to express how pissed and sickened that makes me......of course they both love socialism and total government control so it doesn't surprise me in the least.
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:puke:
I don't really have the words to express how pissed and sickened that makes me......of course they both love socialism and total government control so it doesn't surprise me in the least.
Lets go down there and kick his ass and take his oil.
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Lets go down there and kick his ass and take his oil.
I think we should go to Washington and kick some other ass first.
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I think we should go to Washington and kick some other ass first.
Agree 100%
Lets go down there and kick his ass and take his oil.
Nah, lets just go down there after the above is taken care of and kick his ass for being a socialist douchebag.
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...
Ronald Reagan is rolling in his grave.
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Indeed. So is Theodore Roosevelt and Thomas Jefferson.
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And the headlines today show Irocked Yomama shaking hands and rubbing penises with none other than Hugo Chavez like two long lost fuck buddies. Wow...we gots us some change.
Thought that I'd post this pic here too for s's and g's (and for consistency and so you all could see your president with a thug):
(http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20090418/cb-obama-summit/images/cc14010e-f1c5-4bfb-b1ad-2fbcf80f1344.jpg)
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Thought that I'd post this pic here too for s's and g's (and for consistency and so you all could see your president with a thug):
(http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20090418/cb-obama-summit/images/cc14010e-f1c5-4bfb-b1ad-2fbcf80f1344.jpg)
:puke:
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:puke:
Follow this link to "CoMITTedtoRomney" to see an additional sickening picture of The ONE with The Thug:
http://committedtoromney.com/2009/04/20/how-much-more-evil-can-we-get/ (http://committedtoromney.com/2009/04/20/how-much-more-evil-can-we-get/)
I like one of the comments on this site "The White House Christmas Card photo right there..."!
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My boss went to U of Virginia for undergrad. From a friend of his. I am nauseous. I suspected as much. Decisive action my ass. There should be a crater in Somalia for every day of the standoff and a crater for every hostage killed subsequent to the recent news that they plan to target Americans in the future. This should have been a routine training exercise, not a four day empowerment class for terrorists. Ronald Reagan is rolling in his grave.
Having spoken to some SEAL pals here in Virginia Beach yesterday and asking why this thing dragged out for 4 days, I got the following:
1. BHO wouldn't authorize the DEVGRU/NSWC SEAL teams to the scene for 36 hours going against OSC (on scene commander) recommendation.
2. Once they arrived, BHO imposed restrictions on their ROE that they couldn't do anything unless the hostage's life was in "imminent" danger
3. The first time the hostage jumped, the SEALS had the raggies all sighted in, but could not fire due to ROE restriction
4. When the navy RIB came under fire as it approached with supplies, no fire was returned due to ROE restrictions. As the raggies were shooting at the RIB, they were exposed and the SEALS had them all dialed in.
5. BHO specifically denied two rescue plans developed by the Bainbridge CPN and SEAL teams
6. Bainbridge CPN and SEAL team CDR finally decide they have the OpArea and OSC authority to solely determine risk to hostage. 4 hours later, 3 dead raggies
7. BHO immediately claims credit for his "daring and decisive" behaviour. As usual with him, it's BS.
So per our last email thread, I'm downgrading Oohbaby's performace to D-. Only reason it's not an F is that the hostage survived.
Read the following accurate account.
Philips’ first leap into the warm, dark water of the Indian Ocean hadn’t worked out as well. With the Bainbridge in range and a rescue by his country’s Navy possible, Philips threw himself off of his lifeboat prison, enabling Navy shooters onboard the destroyer a clear shot at his captors — and none was taken.
The guidance from National Command Authority — the president of the United States, Barack Obama — had been clear: a peaceful solution was the only acceptable outcome to this standoff unless the hostage’s life was in clear, extreme danger.
The next day, a small Navy boat approaching the floating raft was fired on by the Somali pirates — and again no fire was returned and no pirates killed. This was again due to the cautious stance assumed by Navy personnel thanks to the combination of a lack of clear guidance from Washington and a mandate from the commander in chief’s staff not to act until Obama, a man with no background of dealing with such issues and no track record of decisiveness, decided that any outcome other than a “peaceful solution” would be acceptable.
After taking fire from the Somali kidnappers again Saturday night, the on scene commander decided he’d had enough.
Keeping his authority to act in the case of a clear and present danger to the hostage’s life and having heard nothing from Washington since yet another request to mount a rescue operation had been denied the day before, the Navy officer — unnamed in all media reports to date — decided the AK47 one captor had leveled at Philips’ back was a threat to the hostage’s life and ordered the NSWC team to take their shots.
Three rounds downrange later, all three brigands became enemy KIA and Philips was safe.
There is upside, downside, and spinside to the series of events over the last week that culminated in yesterday’s dramatic rescue of an American hostage.
Almost immediately following word of the rescue, the Obama administration and its supporters claimed victory against pirates in the Indian Ocean and [1] declared that the dramatic end to the standoff put paid to questions of the inexperienced president’s toughness and decisiveness.
Despite the Obama administration’s (and its sycophants’) attempt to spin yesterday’s success as a result of bold, decisive leadership by the inexperienced president, the reality is nothing of the sort. What should have been a standoff lasting only hours — as long as it took the USS Bainbridge and its team of NSWC operators to steam to the location — became an embarrassing four day and counting standoff between a ragtag handful of criminals with rifles and a U.S. Navy warship.
I sent this to snopes. This just sounds fishy to me.
It came from a friend of a friend to begin with- clue #1.
Ronald Reagan citation-Someone is a Republican- clue #2.
Talked to some Seals pals-I have a first cousin in the Seals and he does not say anything about what he does-clue #3.
Read the following accurate account. Does this mean the above information is not accurate? clue #4.
no track record of decisiveness, decided that any outcome other than a “peaceful solution” would be acceptable.
After taking fire from the Somali kidnappers again Saturday night, the on scene commander decided he’d had enough. Nope, doesn't work like that. He had permission all along, it was his option as to when to use it. Clue#5.
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I sent this to snopes. This just sounds fishy to me.
It came from a friend of a friend to begin with- clue #1.
Ronald Reagan citation-Someone is a Republican- clue #2.
Talked to some Seals pals-I have a first cousin in the Seals and he does not say anything about what he does-clue #3.
Read the following accurate account. Does this mean the above information is not accurate? clue #4.
no track record of decisiveness, decided that any outcome other than a “peaceful solution” would be acceptable.
After taking fire from the Somali kidnappers again Saturday night, the on scene commander decided he’d had enough. Nope, doesn't work like that. He had permission all along, it was his option as to when to use it. Clue#5.
"Trust but verify."
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I sent this to snopes. This just sounds fishy to me.
It came from a friend of a friend to begin with- clue #1.
Ronald Reagan citation-Someone is a Republican- clue #2.
Talked to some Seals pals-I have a first cousin in the Seals and he does not say anything about what he does-clue #3.
Read the following accurate account. Does this mean the above information is not accurate? clue #4.
no track record of decisiveness, decided that any outcome other than a “peaceful solution” would be acceptable.
After taking fire from the Somali kidnappers again Saturday night, the on scene commander decided he’d had enough. Nope, doesn't work like that. He had permission all along, it was his option as to when to use it. Clue#5.
It was not from a friend of a friend - it was from my boss's best friend from college who still lives in Virginia. My boss forwarded it directly to me, and it still had his friend's contact information attached - I cleaned all that up before I posted it. The highlighted stuff at the beginning of the post was text I WROTE. The Ronald Reagan quote was MY TEXT.
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It was not from a friend of a friend - it was from my boss's best friend from college who still lives in Virginia. My boss forwarded it directly to me, and it still had his friend's contact information attached - I cleaned all that up before I posted it. The highlighted stuff at the beginning of the post was text I WROTE. The Ronald Reagan quote was MY TEXT.
This is the one I got from a cousin in Texas. He didn't clean the addresses up, so it appears to be in wide circulation. A little different at the start, coming from an Admiral this time. I have received this from 3 other folks also in the last few days. One more with the Admiral opening and the others with just the main body of work.
I think this could be very well be true. But, I also think this has a fishy smell of propoganda about it, circulated by someone with a vast catalog of email addresses. It has certainly spread far and wide in short order. Maybe your boss could ask his friend if the friend was there or was this something he, too, merely passed along. It would be cool if he was the originator of such a popular message. Just saying.
I went back and looked at the chain and there were a bunch of Cargill.com addys in there.
This was passed on to me, but it sounds logical
Got this from a friend who is a retired admiral. looks like Obama and his administration are trying to take credit for the rescue when in reality they prolonged the situation. This bunch of inexperienced clowns are just might ruin this Country in the next 4 years.
The real story of Obama's Decision Making with the hostages.
Having spoken to some SEAL pals here in Virginia Beach yesterday and asking why this thing dragged out for 4 days, I got the following:
1. BHO wouldn't authorize the DEVGRU/NSWC SEAL teams to the scene for 36 hours going against OSC (on scene commander) recommendation.
2. Once they arrived, BHO imposed restrictions on their ROE that they couldn't do anything unless the hostage's life was in "imminent" danger
3. The first time the hostage jumped, the SEALS had the raggies all sighted in, but could not fire due to ROE restriction
4. When the navy RIB came under fire as it approached with supplies, no fire was returned due to ROE restrictions. As the raggies were shooting at the RIB, they were exposed and the SEALS had them all dialed in.
5. BHO specifically denied two rescue plans developed by the Bainbridge CPN and SEAL teams
6. Bainbridge CPN and SEAL team CDR finally decide they have the OpArea and OSC authority to solely determine risk to hostage. 4 hours later, 3 dead raggies
7. BHO immediately claims credit for his "daring and decisive" behaviour. As usual with him, it's BS.
Read the following accurate account.
Philips’ first leap into the warm, dark water of the Indian Ocean hadn’t worked out as well. With the Bainbridge in range and a rescue by his country’s Navy possible, Philips threw himself off of his lifeboat prison, enabling Navy shooters onboard the destroyer a clear shot at his captors — and none was taken.
The guidance from National Command Authority — the president of the United States ,
Barack Obama — had been clear: a peaceful solution was the only acceptable outcome to this standoff unless the hostage’s life was in clear, extreme danger.
The next day, a small Navy boat approaching the floating raft was fired on by the Somali pirates — and again no fire was returned and no pirates killed. This was again due to the cautious stance assumed by Navy personnel thanks to the combination of a lack of clear guidance from Washington and a mandate from the commander in chief’s staff not to act until Obama, a man with no background of dealing with such issues and no track record of decisiveness, decided that any outcome other than a “peaceful solution” would be acceptable.
After taking fire from the Somali kidnappers again Saturday night, the on scene commander decided he’d had enough.
Keeping his authority to act in the case of a clear and present danger to the hostage’s life and having heard nothing from Washington since yet another request to mount a rescue operation had been denied the day before, the Navy officer — unnamed in all media reports to date — decided the AK47 one captor had leveled at Philips’ back was a threat to the hostage’s life and ordered the NSWC team to take their shots.
Three rounds downrange later, all three brigands became enemy KIA and Philips was safe.
There is upside, downside, and spinside to the series of events over the last week that culminated in yesterday’s dramatic rescue of an American hostage.
Almost immediately following word of the rescue, the Obama administration and its supporters claimed victory against pirates in the Indian Ocean and [1] declared that the dramatic end to the standoff put paid to questions of the inexperienced president’s toughness and decisiveness.
Despite the Obama administration’s (and its sycophants’) attempt to spin yesterday’s success as a result of bold, decisive leadership by the inexperienced president, the reality is nothing of the sort.
What should have been a standoff lasting only hours — as long as it took the USS Bainbridge and its team of NSWC operators to steam to the location — became an embarrassing four day and counting standoff between a ragtag handful of criminals with rifles and a U.S. Navy warship.
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Verified this with an old buddy of mine last night - active duty Senior Chief Petty Officer serving in NSWU-2. Said the CO of the Bainbridge is now facing possible administrative action over the incident. He could potentially lose his command and forced into retirement, depending on the outcome.
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Verified this with an old buddy of mine last night - active duty Senior Chief Petty Officer serving in NSWU-2. Said the CO of the Bainbridge is now facing possible administrative action over the incident. He could potentially lose his command and forced into retirement, depending on the outcome.
Are you saying that the commander didn't have permission to use deadly force at all?
That decision made the SEALS, the commander, the Navy and the POTUS all look good.
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From what he said, it went down very close to how it was described. The word that came down from Washington was that there would be a political resolution to this standoff. They (the Navy) had the opportunity several times to end the situation, but were specifically told (ordered) to hold their fire. When these assholes (the pirates) started taking wild assed shots at the ship, the on scene commander - the CO - decided the risk to his sailors standing watch topside (outside the skin of the ship) required him to follow the standard rules of engagement for our naval vessels. He (my bud) didn't mention anything about imminent danger to the hostage being the go=no go criteria for taking the shots. His main concern was the risk presented to his crew. The order was given to fire when the targets presented a clean shot. Now, the CO is in hot water for making this decision. Technically, he disobeyed an order. Realistically, he made the right call by following standard rules of engagement.
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From what he said, it went down very close to how it was described. The word that came down from Washington was that there would be a political resolution to this standoff. They (the Navy) had the opportunity several times to end the situation, but were specifically told (ordered) to hold their fire. When these assholes (the pirates) started taking wild assed shots at the ship, the on scene commander - the CO - decided the risk to his sailors standing watch topside (outside the skin of the ship) required him to follow the standard rules of engagement for our naval vessels. He (my bud) didn't mention anything about imminent danger to the hostage being the go=no go criteria for taking the shots. His main concern was the risk presented to his crew. The order was given to fire when the targets presented a clean shot. Now, the CO is in hot water for making this decision. Technically, he disobeyed an order. Realistically, he made the right call by following standard rules of engagement.
I'll bet the hostage would tell Mr. Obama that the pirates were indeed sho nuff gonna kill him with NO problem.
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From what he said, it went down very close to how it was described. The word that came down from Washington was that there would be a political resolution to this standoff. They (the Navy) had the opportunity several times to end the situation, but were specifically told (ordered) to hold their fire. When these assholes (the pirates) started taking wild assed shots at the ship, the on scene commander - the CO - decided the risk to his sailors standing watch topside (outside the skin of the ship) required him to follow the standard rules of engagement for our naval vessels. He (my bud) didn't mention anything about imminent danger to the hostage being the go=no go criteria for taking the shots. His main concern was the risk presented to his crew. The order was given to fire when the targets presented a clean shot. Now, the CO is in hot water for making this decision. Technically, he disobeyed an order. Realistically, he made the right call by following standard rules of engagement.
I cannot say I am surprised. I hope you can keep tabs on this chief so a few of us can scream from the rooftops if the commander sees ANY disciplinary action.
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I cannot say I am surprised. I hope you can keep tabs on this chief so a few of us can scream from the rooftops if the commander sees ANY disciplinary action.
Likewise.
With this current crowd in DC I was skeptical of The ONE making the call to 'take out' the pirates.
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Snopes report
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/pirates.asp (http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/pirates.asp)
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From NBC's Jim Miklaszewski
There's an email whipping around the internet, supposedly written by a Navy SEAL who complains that President Obama delayed decisions to deploy the Navy SEALs because he wanted to resolve the hostage standoff with Captain Richard Phillips "peacefully."
There's enough background detail in the email to suggest it was in fact written by a SEAL, but several senior military officials who were involved in the direct planning and execution of the mission -- including in consultations with the White House and President Obama -- tell NBC News the claims are bogus.
Here is part of the email:
Having spoken to some SEAL pals in Virginia Beach yesterday and asking why this thing dragged out for 4 days, I got the
following:
1. BHO (President) wouldn't authorize the DEVGRU/NSWC SEAL teams to the
scene for 36 hours going against OSC (on scene commander)
recommendation.
2. Once they arrived, BHO imposed restrictions on their ROE (rules of
engagement) that they couldn't do anything unless the hostage's life was
in "imminent" danger
3. The first time the hostage jumped, the SEALS had the raggies all
sighted in, but could not fire due to ROE restriction
4. When the navy RIB came under fire as it approached with supplies, no
fire was returned due to ROE restrictions. As the raggies were shooting
at the RIB, they were exposed and the SEALS had them all dialed in.
5. BHO specifically denied two rescue plans developed by the Bainbridge
CPN and SEAL teams
6. Bainbridge CPN and SEAL team CDR finally decide they have the OpArea
and OSC authority to solely determine risk to hostage. 4 hours later, 3
dead raggies
7. BHO immediately claims credit for his "daring and decisive"
behavior.
Two senior military officials who talked to NBC about this both said essentially they have no reason to carry President Obama's water on this, but that he and the White House responded quickly and positively to the military's request.
Given some of the details included in the email, military officials say it could very well have come from a "disgruntled" Navy SEAL who had no idea what the White House and senior commanders were planning or executing.
In addition, the email was originally passed around by a former admiral who retired in 1982 who told Navy officials he doesnt know any Navy SEALS and has no idea where the original email came from.
According to the officials the timeline of events and decisions were as follows:
Wednesday, April 8
The Maersk Alabama is hijacked by four Somali pirates. The U.S. destroyer Bainbridge, 300 miles away, heads in that direction. Military officials tell NBC News that officials with the Maersk shipping company informed the U.S. Navy they wanted no military intervention, they wanted to negotiate, pay a ransom and be on their way. Senior military officials informed the White House this would not require a military response but the Bainbridge continued in that direction.
Thursday, April 9
Bainbridge arrives in the vicinity of Maersk Alabama as the situation turned ugly and the four pirates took Captain Richards hostage in a lifeboat. The skipper aboard the Bainbridge realized he didn't have the "assets" necessary to handle a hostage situation and informed his superiors he needed the skills that Navy SEALS could bring to the fight.
Friday, April 10
Captain Phillips jumped into the sea in an attempt to escape his pirate captors, but the Bainbridge was a mile away from the lifeboat at the time and had no special operations forces in the water or the air that could have helped Phillips escape.
The nearest Navy SEAL team was on a training mission in Kenya. In military legalese, that SEAL team was considered an "EXTREMIS NATIONAL ASSET," which meant it would require presidential authority to pull the SEALS out of Kenya. Military officials went to the White House to brief national security officials and within "a couple of hours" President Obama signed off on the order to deploy the Navy SEALS, who were airdropped into the water and taken onto the Bainbridge
Friday night Somalia time: The President also gave the SEALS the authority to use "lethal force" to rescue Captain Philliips if it was determined his life was in "imminent danger."
By late Friday it was determined the specialized more advance skillsets of SEAL TEAM SIX, (the Navy's equivalent of DELTA FORCE), now known as the DEVELOPMENT GROUP were needed and planning began to deploy them from Little Creek, Virginia to the Indian Ocean.
At the same time, the hostage rescue operation was officially designated a "COUNTER-TERRORISM OPERATION," which allowed the White House and the military to cut through the usual red tape that exists in combining military and law enforcement operations.
The White House and military also laid out the three primary objectives of the mission:
1) try to negotiate for the peaceful release of hostage Captain Phillips.
2) keep the lifeboat from reaching the Somali shore.
3) use lethal force if the Captain's life is in imminent danger.
Saturday, April 11
The military sought and President Obama immediately granted the request and authority for SEAL TEAM SIX to use "lethal force" if it was determined Captain Phillips life was in danger. SEAL TEAM SIX was airdropped into the water at night and taken aboard the Bainbridge.
Sunday, April 12
At 7:19 pm Somalia time, three Navy snipers from SEAL TEAM SIX, lying prone on the fan-tail of the Bainbridge, fired three precision and simultaneous shots that instantly killed the three remaining pirates holding Captain Phillips hostage aboard the lifeboat.
Looks like Obama got 2 SEAL teams to the ship in short order according to this account. May have been a disgruntled member of the first team that started this because they didn't get to pull the trigger.
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According to my source, the lifeboat was tethered to the Bainbridge and was being towed closer towards land because of rough seas - it is approaching the time of the year that the southwest monsoon is kicking in (it doesn't really get going good until early June. Due to the steady southwest wind in this region, the seas in the Indian Ocean get pretty rough. They were nearly 250 miles offshore when they intercepted the lifeboat, and it was agreed to by the pirates to allow the Navy to tow them to calmer waters.
After they hooked the tow line to the lifeboat and until the situation was ended, the Bainbridge and lifeboat were no farther than 100 feet apart. He said, and I recall this being reported by the media, that Washington's response was for the Bainbridge to stand by because a team of FBI hostage negotiators was being sent to the scene to deal with it. Also, I would like to add, there is a SEAL team stationed onboard USS Boxer. They didn't need to canvas the globe looking for 3 guys that could take the shot. When the skinnies were taken out, they were roughly 20 miles off the Somali coast.
My guy is a straight shooting kind of fellow. I've known him for many years. I have no reason to doubt anything he said.
Here's a shot of the set up just after the hostage situation ended.
(http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g242/glenn1964/10_21_a450.jpg)