Tigers X - Number one Source to Talk Auburn Tigers Sports
Pat Dye Field => War Damn Eagle => Topic started by: RWS on April 08, 2009, 07:57:44 PM
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And you wonder why we laugh at some of the bullshit some of you post or re-post.
Are very creditable sources.
since our announcement of running a sting we have seen many of our sources dry up on handing out info.
I noticed that some on here are talking about how uat(fans) are making excuses about instate recruiting (AL). Here is what we have found out, that they are concerned about how many people are watching them. That for the first time since Saban arrived someone has created a place for people to send information about their recruiting. I think they fear that all the dots have been connected (they should fear this).
Instead of having my company out investigating, which was 5 men, we now have 50 volunteers spread out across AL. They work under our directions and they have been directed in what they can do and can't.
This is no major big deal. In fact it is simple. Take the top 5 high profile recruits that uat has signed the last 2 years get the description of the new car or truck they are driving. Get the tag number, have a local policeman run the tag. (Be careful here, know the person you ask to run the tag) once the tag is run get the VIN number. Take the VIN number to the internet to CARFAX. Run it and gather all the data about the car/truck. Pay close attention to the trail of names (if there are any) Say for example dad purchased a new Dodge Ram Truck 2009 there would only be on owner attached to the carfax besides the dealership that the unit was purchased from. As we have found two names keep showing up on trucks that are driven by current players on the UAT team, they only owned the trucks for about 5 days, sold them to another person who then sold it to mom or dad of the players.
One of our first meetings we had with a NCAA investigator we handed over some documents, he ask us how we got our hands on this and I looked at him and ask "are you kidding me?" You mean to tell me you don't know how to do this? It also helps if you have a connection with a Chrysler Dealership (we do) a Chevy Dealership (also) They can run the VIN# and find out a lot of info.
Oh, and for the bama posters who copy my post here and places them on your boards, you better be darn well worried about me and my company. The stupid emails you have been sending us is just helping our case. Threats to us are a joke, threats to those certain people off our email list are senseless.
We turned all of those over to the FEDs (our connection) I hope none of you watch porn!
Bama is going down! Mark it down! If they don't then the NCAA will be taken to task.
Reddog
Prowler, have you changed your name on Rivals?
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Oh, and for the bama posters who copy my post here and places them on your boards, you better be darn well worried about me and my company. The stupid emails you have been sending us is just helping our case. Threats to us are a joke, threats to those certain people off our email list are senseless.
We turned all of those over to the FEDs (our connection) I hope none of you watch porn!
Bama is going down! Mark it down! If they don't then the NCAA will be taken to task.
He's talking to you, RWS. You better go ahead and clear your cookies. The Feds are comin'!
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First off...where's the Bullshit in that quoted post? What's funny is that you bammers go to the Auburn Sports, the Auburn Rivals site....and y'all talk about Auburn with Little Brother Syndrome?
BTW, apparently all of that stuff that the poster stated, has already been done, and handed over to the NCAA. Also, his handle isn't Reddog.....that's the name of the Operation, rumor is, the person that single handedly brought uat before the NCAA is/was helping in gathering some of their information. So, you and whomever else can laugh it off all y'all want. I'm not laughing at all, I think it's actually Sad, if some or most of these rumors are true. We shall see...probably pretty soon. But, I'm Mizzouri (Show Me) on most of these rumors, meaning I'll believe it when I see it.
Do I believe that uat cheated and have been cheating since the Bahr? Yup
Do I believe that the "Machine" and/or the REC will do their best sweep everything under the rug? Yup
Do I believe that, at some point, the rug will have a lump too large to go unnoticed? Yup
As for the Porn statement....he's talking about Child Pornography.
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First off...where's the Bullshit in that quoted post? What's funny is that you bammers go to the Auburn Sports, the Auburn Rivals site....and y'all talk about Auburn with Little Brother Syndrome?
BTW, apparently all of that stuff that the poster stated, has already been done, and handed over to the NCAA. Also, his handle isn't Reddog.....that's the name of the Operation, rumor is, the person that single handedly brought uat before the NCAA is/was helping in gathering some of their information. So, you and whomever else can laugh it off all y'all want. I'm not laughing at all, I think it's actually Sad, if some or most of these rumors are true. We shall see...probably pretty soon. But, I'm Mizzouri (Show Me) on most of these rumors, meaning I'll believe it when I see it.
Do I believe that uat cheated and have been cheating since the Bahr? Yup
Do I believe that the "Machine" and/or the REC will do their best sweep everything under the rug? Yup
Do I believe that, at some point, the rug will have a lump too large to go unnoticed? Yup
As for the Porn statement....he's talking about Child Pornography.
You are extremely predictable. You're like a little puppy, always there for me to kick when I need a good laugh. You imply that there was only truth in that quote, then go on to elaborate more and support the quote, then near the end of your post say that you will believe it when you see it. Niiiice. Oh, and for your information, I was on the Rivals main board where other fanbases were chuckling at that little gem as well. I'm embarassed enough at what some of our fanbase does, but I would be extremely embarassed if one of our fans came up with that line of shit.
So, how long have you been working for this guy's company? :poke:
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Get the tag number, have a local policeman run the tag. (Be careful here, know the person you ask to run the tag)
This is illegal. I only hope if all the allegations are true, that he gathered information by those means. Not only will the NCAA not be able to use this information, he could get himself in a serious lawsuit and have law enforcement officers fired and sentenced to jail time.
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You seem to be reading impaired....I stated that I'm Mizzuori on most of these rumors, not the stuff that the poster stated in your quote. The Operation Reddog is real, and he has taken the VIN#s off of the cars that were driven by some of uat's finest, these past two years. Will all or any of the CarGate come to light? Who knows. But, I do know that the NCAA does have their hands on some if not most of the information given to them by the people working for him.
Don't worry little bammer....The Shit will be coming, sometime soon.
(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm42/theprowler64/elephant.jpg)
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This is illegal. I only hope if all the allegations are true, that he gathered information by those means. Not only will the NCAA not be able to use this information, he could get himself in a serious lawsuit and have law enforcement officers fired and sentenced to jail time.
Correct. ACJIC and the FBI tend to frown upon misuse of LETS and NCIC. We recently had a case of a magistrate and mayor misusing LETS and NCIC to obtain driving records and criminal histories for bogus reasons here in Baldwin County. They are facing a ton of felony charges and alot of jail time. If you run a tag or DL even, you have to have something to prove why you ran it.
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(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm42/theprowler64/elephant.jpg)
That guy with the shovel can honestly say that he has a shitty job. Suprisingly, the USDoL has no data on pay scales for this profession.
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Correct. ACJIC and the FBI tend to frown upon misuse of LETS and NCIC.
They don't just tend to frown, they tend to put people in jail. I'm trying to find the article, but a dispatcher in south Alabama, Enterprise I believe, was just sentenced to 5 years in prison about 6 months ago for illegal use of NCIC.
Because this dumbass wasn't arrested when he turned this in to the FEDS, I say it's 100% bullshit.
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That guy with the shovel can honestly say that he has a shitty job. Suprisingly, the USDoL has no data on pay scales for this profession.
For raking concrete? I'd probably be a little upset that an elephant is pissing in my concrete, thus making it a little more soupy, but raking concrete is grunt work. $12.00 an hour at tops.
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You seem to be reading impaired....
The only person impaired here is you. You spew so much rumor and bullshit, its sometimes difficult to decipher exactly what you say you believe and what you don't. Just how do you "know" that what he says is true, and that the NCAA has their hands on this supposed illegaly obtained information?
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They don't just tend to frown, they tend to put people in jail. I'm trying to find the article, but a dispatcher in south Alabama, Enterprise I believe, was just sentenced to 5 years in prison about 6 months ago for illegal use of NCIC.
Because this dumbass wasn't arrested when he turned this in to the FEDS, I say it's 100% bullshit.
ACJIC is really good about telling us about what they can track on LETS and NCIC. They've shown us some of their tracking stuff at NCIC cert/re-cert classes. You really have to be careful because some people are flagged. Try running a celebrity, or state official's criminal history and see how fast ACJIC is on the phone with you.
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For raking concrete? I'd probably be a little upset that an elephant is pissing in my concrete, thus making it a little more soupy, but raking concrete is grunt work. $12.00 an hour at tops.
Those Cambodian engineers are pretty ingenious. How they taught those elephants to haul around wet cement in their bowels is beyond me. Obviously, my skills in identifying the differences in wet smoothed out concrete and freshly laid pachyderm splatter is lacking. I blame the public educational system for this shortfall. It has cost me many a high paying job.
Anyway, back to your regularly scheduled programming.
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Those Cambodian engineers are pretty ingenious. How they taught those elephants to haul around wet cement in their bowels is beyond me. Obviously, my skills in identifying the differences in wet smoothed out concrete and freshly laid pachyderm splatter is lacking. I blame the public educational system for this shortfall. It has cost me many a high paying job.
Funny. I blame the public educational system for me knowing that raking concrete is grunt work and only pays $12.00 an hour. Or maybe it was the weed.
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Funny. I blame the public educational system for me knowing that raking concrete is grunt work and only pays $12.00 an hour. Or maybe it was the weed.
Hey, thats still better cash than Prowler makes at McDonalds.....
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$12.00 an hour? Heeyyyy....
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Hey, thats still better cash than Prowler makes at McDonalds.....
That was Prowler pushing that mop bucket around???.................. Geez thats one goofy lookin dude.
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They don't just tend to frown, they tend to put people in jail. I'm trying to find the article, but a dispatcher in south Alabama, Enterprise I believe, was just sentenced to 5 years in prison about 6 months ago for illegal use of NCIC.
Because this dumbass wasn't arrested when he turned this in to the FEDS, I say it's 100% bullshit.
It is not illegal to run a license plate, it is illegal to use the NCIC in this way... Don't mind me, continue...
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It is not illegal to run a license plate, it is illegal to use the NCIC in this way... Don't mind me, continue...
I don't think I'm following you. It's not illegal to run a license plate for any member of law enforcement. It is illegal for a citizen to get a law enforcement officer to run another citizen's license plate.
Is that what you are saying? If so, I agree, and thought I said the same thing.
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I don't think I'm following you. It's not illegal to run a license plate for any member of law enforcement. It is illegal for a citizen to get a law enforcement officer to run another citizen's license plate.
Is that what you are saying? If so, I agree, and thought I said the same thing.
Jim Rockford use to get Dennis at the police dept. to do it all the time on the Rockford Files, so it must be OK
:stewie:
not sure that would be the part I was worried about if I was an alabama fan
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Correct me if I'm wrong but the NCAA does not follow the same procedure that the court system does. They do not care how they get the information just that it is out in the open. Who cares if it is inadmissible is their view.
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Jim Rockford use to get Dennis at the police dept. to do it all the time on the Rockford Files, so it must be OK
:stewie:
not sure that would be the part I was worried about if I was an alabama fan
Let me put this in another way. When I was sworn into my job, it was made clear to me that I would go to jail IF I abused my NCIC privileges. That meant running tags, VIN numbers and personal information through NCIC without a legal reason for doing so.
We're talking about digging into someone's privacy by a regular citizen through a law enforcement officer. That is as illegal as it gets. IF this person really had a local law enforcement officer to run tags and gather personal information, he would have been arrested by the feds when he turned the info in to them. NCIC is operated by the F.B.I. and information like this dumbass says he gathered could be easily tracked.
For the record, I'm not worried about any of it. Whatever we get from the textbook violation is what we get. I'm just pointing out how dumb people really are.
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You might be absolutely correct Argo, but it appears legal or not, if the NCAA gets the info, it will be admissible and used against a guilty party. We shall see.
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It is not illegal to run a license plate, it is illegal to use the NCIC in this way... Don't mind me, continue...
If we run a tag without a legit reason for personal gain, or to distribute to the public: illegal.
If we run a DL without a legit reason for personal gain, or to distribute to the public: illegal.
If we run a QH without a legit reason for personal gain, or to distribute to the public: illegal.
Hell, looking up somebody on LETS without a legit reason is illegal, and it tells you at the bottom of the pages on there. Thats not even technically FBI files, thats only Alabama files for that matter. They make us well aware of what we are up against if we misuse the system, so I'm pretty sure we know what we are talking about.
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I don't think I'm following you. It's not illegal to run a license plate for any member of law enforcement. It is illegal for a citizen to get a law enforcement officer to run another citizen's license plate.
Is that what you are saying? If so, I agree, and thought I said the same thing.
That was my point, sorry, I was drunk.
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If we run a tag without a legit reason for personal gain, or to distribute to the public: illegal.
If we run a DL without a legit reason for personal gain, or to distribute to the public: illegal.
If we run a QH without a legit reason for personal gain, or to distribute to the public: illegal.
Hell, looking up somebody on LETS without a legit reason is illegal, and it tells you at the bottom of the pages on there. Thats not even technically FBI files, thats only Alabama files for that matter. They make us well aware of what we are up against if we misuse the system, so I'm pretty sure we know what we are talking about.
You can look up a tag number online... However...like I was trying to say earlier...it is illegal. After Rebecca Schaeffer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebecca_Schaeffer was murdered in 1989 by a deranged fan who located her through DMV records, laws were changed drastically, regarding the release of such records. As a result, no, you cannot get someone's name or other personal information, from a license plate number.
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If we run a tag without a legit reason for personal gain, or to distribute to the public: illegal.
If we run a DL without a legit reason for personal gain, or to distribute to the public: illegal.
If we run a QH without a legit reason for personal gain, or to distribute to the public: illegal.
Hell, looking up somebody on LETS without a legit reason is illegal, and it tells you at the bottom of the pages on there. Thats not even technically FBI files, thats only Alabama files for that matter. They make us well aware of what we are up against if we misuse the system, so I'm pretty sure we know what we are talking about.
What he was saying is correct. License or tag info is public information. Accessing it via LETS/ACJIS without having a legit law enforcement reason is illegal. Actually, if you think about it, it's pretty stupid. I had a buddy that ACJIS tried to prosecute for misusing LETS. They charged him with theft of intellectual property. They were unscuccessful because, by definition, public information can't be intellectual property. He had not used it for any personal gain, or distributed it so they had no other charges. But, he's run one of those "flagged" names.
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What he was saying is correct. License or tag info is public information. Accessing it via LETS/ACJIS without having a legit law enforcement reason is illegal. Actually, if you think about it, it's pretty stupid. I had a buddy that ACJIS tried to prosecute for misusing LETS. They charged him with theft of intellectual property. They were unscuccessful because, by definition, public information can't be intellectual property. He had not used it for any personal gain, or distributed it so they had no other charges. But, he's run one of those "flagged" names.
I buy that portion.
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I guess this dumb ass Bammer posting on this site have never applied for a new auto insurance policy...
VIN + TAG # + Home address + First Name + Last Name + SSN = new policy
Supposedly, RWS has some top secret super dupper secret squirrel special access to the only database system in the world that contains VINS and Car Tag #s......holy shit I'm proud to lurk on the same Auburn Football message board that he posts on, so I glean knowledge bs from him.
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What he was saying is correct. License or tag info is public information. Accessing it via LETS/ACJIS without having a legit law enforcement reason is illegal. Actually, if you think about it, it's pretty stupid. I had a buddy that ACJIS tried to prosecute for misusing LETS. They charged him with theft of intellectual property. They were unscuccessful because, by definition, public information can't be intellectual property. He had not used it for any personal gain, or distributed it so they had no other charges. But, he's run one of those "flagged" names.
Drivers license info is certainly not public information because it contains information such as your SSN. Even if your DL does not show a SSN on your hardcopy, it is still maintained in the DL record. The registered owner of a vehicle is also not public information either. If I am mistaken, please show me a website or tool where the public can legally input a tag number and it will give you the registered owner. You can put a VIN number in Carfax, but I believe all you will get is any events or changes in ownership, but I don't believe it will tell you who the owners actually were.
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I guess this dumb ass Bammer posting on this site have never applied for a new auto insurance policy...
VIN + TAG # + Home address + First Name + Last Name + SSN = new policy
Supposedly, RWS has some top secret super dupper secret squirrel special access to the only database system in the world that contains VINS and Car Tag #s......holy shit I'm proud to lurk on the same Auburn Football message board that he posts on, so I glean knowledge bs from him.
Uhhhhhh......I work for a police department, therefore I have access to NCIC and LETS. I'm pretty sure I know how this works.....Are you really that stupid that you don't even pay attention to the thread before commenting? Please show me a public tool that you can put a car tag into and it will give you their registration info. Also, feel free to show me a public tool that will show you somebody's full DL info by feeding it their name. And since you used the insurance company as an example, please find me an insurance company I could call and get all of the information you just listed by asking pretty please. Last I checked, I doubt you will find an insurance carrier that will give away a policyholder's personal info. I guess using your example, Blue Cross Blue Shield can just give away anybody's personal info as well. :taunt:
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Uhhhhhh......I work for a police department, therefore I have access to NCIC and LETS. I'm pretty sure I know how this works.....Are you really that stupid that you don't even pay attention to the thread before commenting? Please show me a public tool that you can put a car tag into and it will give you their registration info. Also, feel free to show me a public tool that will show you somebody's full DL info by feeding it their name.
hey, would it be possible for you to run some plates for us, since you work @ police dept.? Please
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hey, would it be possible for you to run some plates for us, since you work @ police dept.? Please
+1
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Drivers license info is certainly not public information because it contains information such as your SSN. Even if your DL does not show a SSN on your hardcopy, it is still maintained in the DL record. The registered owner of a vehicle is also not public information either. If I am mistaken, please show me a website or tool where the public can legally input a tag number and it will give you the registered owner. You can put a VIN number in Carfax, but I believe all you will get is any events or changes in ownership, but I don't believe it will tell you who the owners actually were.
Just because you can't google it, doesn't mean it's not public information. Just because you might have to jump through some hoops or work through some red tape doesn't mean it's not public information. Private companies can get this info for a miriad of purposes, and they don't do it through LETS or ACJIS.
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What he was saying is correct. License or tag info is public information. Accessing it via LETS/ACJIS without having a legit law enforcement reason is illegal. Actually, if you think about it, it's pretty stupid. I had a buddy that ACJIS tried to prosecute for misusing LETS. They charged him with theft of intellectual property. They were unscuccessful because, by definition, public information can't be intellectual property. He had not used it for any personal gain, or distributed it so they had no other charges. But, he's run one of those "flagged" names.
I forgot about this in my original reply, but thought it was funny.
A little after I started, I was logged onto my NCIC account and went to Burger King for some food. Well, there was a traffic stop and the guy's license # was like 0000xxx (the x were actually numbers). Nobody had seen one like that before, and it turns out the guy was a retired State Trooper. Apparently when Guy Hunt was in office he had the DL formats changed to the 7 character format. Well, the other dispatcher and a narcotics officer decided they wanted to see who had 0000001. Needless to say, it was a person well known to Alabamians (FYI not Bob Riley). When I got back they told me about it and I thought it was hilarious and we were making jokes about the ABI and others coming down......until I realized I was the user logged in, not her. The next day, ACJIC called down to inquire, but never really did anything about it.
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Just because you can't google it, doesn't mean it's not public information. Just because you might have to jump through some hoops or work through some red tape doesn't mean it's not public information. Private companies can get this info for a miriad of purposes, and they don't do it through LETS or ACJIS.
It is not public information, it is the property of the company that has collected it from customers.
RWS, do you think because you 'work' for a law enforcement agency, you have some type of special access to information that is ONLY contained in a 'law enforcement' database?
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Just because you can't google it, doesn't mean it's not public information. Just because you might have to jump through some hoops or work through some red tape doesn't mean it's not public information. Private companies can get this info for a miriad of purposes, and they don't do it through LETS or ACJIS.
A SSN is not public record. An OLN number is not public record. Registrant data is not public record. Sorry if I believe the FBI and the State of Alabama over you.
I'm still waiting on the websites or places I can legally acquire the information I described in my other post.
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It is not public information, it is the property of the company that has collected it from customers.
RWS, do you think because you 'work' for a law enforcement agency, you have some type of special access to information that is ONLY contained in a 'law enforcement' database?
I hate to speak for RWS, but, yes he does. That's why databases like NCIC and LETS were created in the first place.
You can't legally gather my personal information through any means other than some type of government controlled database. Insurance companies can't legally give you my information. AWK has already posted a link proving that.
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RWS, do you think because you 'work' for a law enforcement agency, you have some type of special access to information that is ONLY contained in a 'law enforcement' database?
Dumbest. Statement. Ever.
Its called NCIC. There is information within NCIC (a LAW ENFORCEMENT DATABASE) that is not public record, and is contained only within NCIC, and within the local agency who sent it into NCIC. We have to be fingerprinted and screened by the FBI to have access to this information. Yes, I have access to information that you are not going to be able to find anywhere except in that database.
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A SSN is not public record. An OLN number is not public record. Registrant data is not public record. Sorry if I believe the FBI and the State of Alabama over you.
I'm still waiting on the websites or places I can legally acquire the information I described in my other post.
You need to quit thinking that the internet has all public information. Access to such information is limited and must be for a legitimate purpose, IE a company checking potential employee information. But it is available if you want to jump through the hoops to get it. You can't just walk in to the local DMV and ask for a list of license numbers and people they belong to, but if you have a legitimate purpose, you can access the information.
Are you a police officer? You said you work for a police dept?
You may want to read these: http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/2721.html
http://www.usdoj.gov/oip/foia_updates/Vol_XVII_4/page2.htm (http://www.usdoj.gov/oip/foia_updates/Vol_XVII_4/page2.htm)
http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/GV/content/htm/gv.005.00.000552.00.htm (http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/GV/content/htm/gv.005.00.000552.00.htm)
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Dumbest. Statement. Ever.
Its called NCIC. There is information within NCIC (a LAW ENFORCEMENT DATABASE) that is not public record, and is contained only within NCIC, and within the local agency who sent it into NCIC. We have to be fingerprinted and screened by the FBI to have access to this information. Yes, I have access to information that you are not going to be able to find anywhere except in that database.
Yeah, there is a reason you post on internet message boards all day while eating doughnuts.....
18 USC 2725
(b) Permissible Uses.—
(6) For use by any insurer or insurance support organization, or by a self-insured entity, or its agents, employees, or contractors, in connection with claims investigation activities, antifraud activities, rating or underwriting.
(8) For use by any licensed private investigative agency or licensed security service for any purpose permitted under this subsection.
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RWS,
Also, court records are public information. Criminal court files, Traffic, divorce, civil, all of which contain all the information, and more than you can get on LETS/ACJIC.
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Yeah, there is a reason you post on internet message boards all day while eating doughnuts.....
18 USC 2725
(b) Permissible Uses.—
(6) For use by any insurer or insurance support organization, or by a self-insured entity, or its agents, employees, or contractors, in connection with claims investigation activities, antifraud activities, rating or underwriting.
(8) For use by any licensed private investigative agency or licensed security service for any purpose permitted under this subsection.
A law scholar, you are not.
Here's the part you conveniently left out.
(b) Permissible Uses.— Personal information referred to in subsection (a) shall be disclosed for use in connection with matters of motor vehicle or driver safety and theft, motor vehicle emissions, motor vehicle product alterations, recalls, or advisories, performance monitoring of motor vehicles and dealers by motor vehicle manufacturers, and removal of non-owner records from the original owner records of motor vehicle manufacturers to carry out the purposes of titles I and IV of the Anti Car Theft Act of 1992, the Automobile Information Disclosure Act (15 U.S.C. 1231 et seq.), the Clean Air Act (42 U.S.C. 7401 et seq.), and chapters 301, 305, and 321–331 of title 49, and, subject to subsection (a)(2), may be disclosed as follows:
So, which one of those reasons did the private investigator use to gather his information?
You're trying to build a strawman. The private investigator that supposedly gathered this information, states he did so through a LEO. He did not request the information for any reasons listed above. He states that he had the license ran by a LEO and gathered VIN# through those means.
Argue for the next 20 pages, and it's still illegal.
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Yeah, there is a reason you post on internet message boards all day while eating doughnuts.....
18 USC 2725
(b) Permissible Uses.—
(6) For use by any insurer or insurance support organization, or by a self-insured entity, or its agents, employees, or contractors, in connection with claims investigation activities, antifraud activities, rating or underwriting.
(8) For use by any licensed private investigative agency or licensed security service for any purpose permitted under this subsection.
Thats great that you leave out the explanation of the Permissible Uses Section.
(b) Permissible Uses.— Personal information referred to in subsection (a) shall be disclosed for use in connection with matters of motor vehicle or driver safety and theft, motor vehicle emissions, motor vehicle product alterations, recalls, or advisories, performance monitoring of motor vehicles and dealers by motor vehicle manufacturers, and removal of non-owner records from the original owner records of motor vehicle manufacturers to carry out the purposes of titles I and IV of the Anti Car Theft Act of 1992, the Automobile Information Disclosure Act (15 U.S.C. 1231 et seq.), the Clean Air Act (42 U.S.C. 7401 et seq.), and chapters 301, 305, and 321–331 of title 49, and, subject to subsection (a)(2), may be disclosed as follows:
Do you really think what you posted will allow any Tom, Dick, Harry, and private eye to access sensitive personal data at the pass of a piece of paper and a rubber stamp?
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RWS,
Also, court records are public information. Criminal court files, Traffic, divorce, civil, all of which contain all the information, and more than you can get on LETS/ACJIC.
You are correct, but as you have already stated, you must have a legit legal purpose for gathering information.
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You are correct, but as you have already stated, you must have a legit legal purpose for gathering information.
Actually, that's not true with court records. There's a statute that governs release of such information by DMVs. Court records are open and public information, unless it's been sealed due to being juvenile, or youthful offender. Case action summaries are printed in the files that contain complete indentifying information, including SSNs. I could walk in to my court clerks office, give them a name, and see every court file, if any, on that person.
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RWS,
Also, court records are public information. Criminal court files, Traffic, divorce, civil, all of which contain all the information, and more than you can get on LETS/ACJIC.
Most any action record filed with probate is public record. Some information in court files are not public. Arrest date, time, charge, and location are public record. Adjudication is public record. Warrants are public record. Some information on traffic files are not public. Divorce and civil action is public, however, again you will not be able to find sensitive personal information that we have access to on LETS or NCIC.
As I believe townhallsavoy demonstrated here before, just by knowing my name he was able to obtain my address, and of course my fiancee's name (she is also on my mortgage). Thats public record that can be found using a deed search. Anything containing a SSN or other vital data is never public record. If SSNs and DOBs were readily available everywhere, the cases of identity theft would be unreal. If you were to post your DOB on MySpace, or on your profile here then thats one thing. You are implying consent for people to know it.
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I hate to speak for RWS, but, yes he does. That's why databases like NCIC and LETS were created in the first place.
You can't legally gather my personal information through any means other than some type of government controlled database. Insurance companies can't legally give you my information. AWK has already posted a link proving that.
Can I sue Publishers Clearinghouse? I'm tired of getting their shit and they always seem to have my info. Telling me I've already won and shit. I'm calling shenanigans on them.
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Can I sue Publishers Clearinghouse? I'm tired of getting their shit and they always seem to have my info. Telling me I've already won and shit. I'm calling shenanigans on them.
Yes, but good luck.
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Thats great that you leave out the explanation of the Permissible Uses Section.
Do you really think what you posted will allow any Tom, Dick, Harry, and private eye to access sensitive personal data at the pass of a piece of paper and a rubber stamp?
Actually, YES!
93) For use in the normal course of business by a legitimate business or its agents, employees, or contractors, but only—
(A) to verify the accuracy of personal information submitted by the individual to the business or its agents, employees, or contractors; and
(B) if such information as so submitted is not correct or is no longer correct, to obtain the correct information, but only for the purposes of preventing fraud by, pursuing legal remedies against, or recovering on a debt or security interest against, the individual.
(4) For use in connection with any civil, criminal, administrative, or arbitral proceeding in any Federal, State, or local court or agency or before any self-regulatory body, including the service of process, investigation in anticipation of litigation, and the execution or enforcement of judgments and orders, or pursuant to an order of a Federal, State, or local court.
(5) For use in research activities, and for use in producing statistical reports, so long as the personal information is not published, redisclosed, or used to contact individuals.
(6) For use by any insurer or insurance support organization, or by a self-insured entity, or its agents, employees, or contractors, in connection with claims investigation activities, antifraud activities, rating or underwriting.
(7) For use in providing notice to the owners of towed or impounded vehicles.
(8) For use by any licensed private investigative agency or licensed security service for any purpose permitted under this subsection.
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Actually, that's not true with court records. There's a statute that governs release of such information by DMVs. Court records are open and public information, unless it's been sealed due to being juvenile, or youthful offender. Case action summaries are printed in the files that contain complete indentifying information, including SSNs. I could walk in to my court clerks office, give them a name, and see every court file, if any, on that person.
Wait. When in the hell did we start talking about court records, and how did they get into the conversation? I thought we were talking about personal information through NCIC?
I still stand by my argument that it's illegal to gather personal information on someone through a LEO. That was the original argument.
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Most any action record filed with probate is public record. Some information in court files are not public. Arrest date, time, charge, and location are public record. Adjudication is public record. Warrants are public record. Some information on traffic files are not public. Divorce and civil action is public, however, again you will not be able to find sensitive personal information that we have access to on LETS or NCIC.
As I believe townhallsavoy demonstrated here before, just by knowing my name he was able to obtain my address, and of course my fiancee's name (she is also on my mortgage). Thats public record that can be found using a deed search. Anything containing a SSN or other vital data is never public record. If SSNs and DOBs were readily available everywhere, the cases of identity theft would be unreal. If you were to post your DOB on MySpace, or on your profile here then thats one thing. You are implying consent for people to know it.
You never answered my question. Are you a po-po? Five-O? The Fuzz?
Somebody really has convinced you that LETS/ACJIS is the Holy Grail huh? Like I said, court files are public records, and contain vast amounts of information. LETS/ACJIS is often very lacking or incomplete.
I've already posted links that show how you can also get the information for legitimate purposes, and what "public records" are.
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Wait. When in the hell did we start talking about court records, and how did they get into the conversation? I thought we were talking about personal information through NCIC?
I still stand by my argument that it's illegal to gather personal information on someone through a LEO. That was the original argument.
Yes, that is true. Using LETS for a non law enforcement purpose would be illegal. I stated that was sort of stupid because it's, for the most part, all public information on LETS, except for say SSNs...and even LETS doesn't display that if you chose to keep it off your DL. Then RWS had to tell everyone that he's got the secret squirrel password and he's got info you can't get any way other than LETS/ACJIS, and that's just not true.
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Where is Harvey Birdman through all of this?
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You never answered my question. Are you a po-po? Five-O? The Fuzz?
Somebody really has convinced you that LETS/ACJIS is the Holy Grail huh? Like I said, court files are public records, and contain vast amounts of information. LETS/ACJIS is often very lacking or incomplete.
I've already posted links that show how you can also get the information for legitimate purposes, and what "public records" are.
I dispatch/jail, which means I use this stuff more than the po-po. At least thats how things operate here, anyway. So, just what do you do that you would know exactly what is contained in LETS and NCIC?
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I stated that was sort of stupid because it's, for the most part, all public information on LETS, except for say SSNs...and even LETS doesn't display that if you chose to keep it off your DL.
Incorrect. Even if you choose to not list your SSN on your OLN, I can still see it in LETS and if I were to run it on NCIC. I think that your SSN is automatically not listed on your hard copy of the new style OLNs and you don't have a choice to put it on there. I can't really remember. Either way, we can still see it on LETS and NCIC.
Then RWS had to tell everyone that he's got the secret squirrel password and he's got info you can't get any way other than LETS/ACJIS, and that's just not true.
Hey, I got an idea. Since everything in NCIC is stuff you can find anywhere anyway, and everything is public record according to you, maybe the FBI should just make a query tool on their website so everybody could query it. Then they could do away with this whole fingerprinting and profiling/screening thing they do with the folks who get access to it now. Boy, if Hoover only knew that this law enforcement tool he came up with was all just going to be public record anyway....
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I dispatch/jail, which means I use this stuff more than the po-po. At least thats how things operate here, anyway. So, just what do you do that you would know exactly what is contained in LETS and NCIC?
I know that was hard to admit! I'm former po-po for starters. Currently an attorney.
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I know that was hard to admit! I'm former po-po for starters. Currently an attorney.
Damn, that was harsh. Also explains why you like to argue.
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I know that was hard to admit!
Not at all, actually. I make damn good money with damn good benefits. We work 12 hour shifts, so the time off is great as well. I've been asked to go to patrol and turned it down, so its not like I'm a wannabe or anything. I like what I do and see no real reason to cross that line. Nothing to be embarassed about on my end.
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Incorrect. Even if you choose to not list your SSN on your OLN, I can still see it in LETS and if I were to run it on NCIC. I think that your SSN is automatically not listed on your hard copy of the new style OLNs and you don't have a choice to put it on there. I can't really remember. Either way, we can still see it on LETS and NCIC.
Hey, I got an idea. Since everything in NCIC is stuff you can find anywhere anyway, and everything is public record according to you, maybe the FBI should just make a query tool on their website so everybody could query it. Then they could do away with this whole fingerprinting and profiling/screening thing they do with the folks who get access to it now. Boy, if Hoover only knew that this law enforcement tool he came up with was all just going to be public record anyway....
I stand corrected on the SSN on LETS.
You really do think if it's not googleable it's not public don't you? I already posted the laws that make it available. Are you disputing them now?
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Damn, that was harsh. Also explains why you like to argue.
Yeah, maybe it was a bit harsh.
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I stand corrected on the SSN on LETS.
You really do think if it's not googleable it's not public don't you? I already posted the laws that make it available. Are you disputing them now?
None of those laws are applicable to a private investigator hunting records of football players for his personal agenda of being an AU fan and hating Alabama. None of those records would be available to some joe blow, or PI, just walking in to probate, pencil whipping a form, and paying a small fee. The fact that this person said he got them from a police officer would tend to support my argument. If everything that you say is public record, then why didn't he get the records in legitimate fashion? And since most everything in NCIC is public record anyway, where exactly can I go to receive Secret Service AMs that are broadcast on NCIC? Where can I query immigration violators? Where can I go to see how many times a certain vehicle has crossed the border? Where can I go to find gang membership and organizational lists?
If you really think something like NCIC has nothing that you couldn't find that is public record anyway, then you must not understand much about it at all.
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None of those laws are applicable to a private investigator hunting records of football players for his personal agenda of being an AU fan and hating Alabama. None of those records would be available to some joe blow, or PI, just walking in to probate, pencil whipping a form, and paying a small fee. The fact that this person said he got them from a police officer would tend to support my argument. If everything that you say is public record, then why didn't he get the records in legitimate fashion?
You may find this hard to believe, but there are cops out there that will run information for their buddies despite the fact it's not legal to do so.
It is all public information. Some of it is more protected than others...can we agree there? But if I have a legitimate reason, it can be accessed. You might have to go through some red tape, but if you have a legitimate reason you can get a large portion of personal information.
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None of those laws are applicable to a private investigator hunting records of football players for his personal agenda of being an AU fan and hating Alabama. None of those records would be available to some joe blow, or PI, just walking in to probate, pencil whipping a form, and paying a small fee. The fact that this person said he got them from a police officer would tend to support my argument. If everything that you say is public record, then why didn't he get the records in legitimate fashion? And since most everything in NCIC is public record anyway, where exactly can I go to receive Secret Service AMs that are broadcast on NCIC? Where can I query immigration violators? Where can I go to see how many times a certain vehicle has crossed the border? Where can I go to find gang membership and organizational lists?
If you really think something like NCIC has nothing that you couldn't find that is public record anyway, then you must not understand much about it at all.
The secret service AMs are not personal information, that's totally different. I was talking about information contained on a DL or vehicle registration. As far as personal information, other than the SSN, everything on there is available for legitimate use per the Federal code sections I posted. Yes, there are confidential things on LETS, but you're diverting the argument now away from what we were debating.
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The secret service AMs are not personal information, that's totally different. I was talking about information contained on a DL or vehicle registration. As far as personal information, other than the SSN, everything on there is available for legitimate use per the Federal code sections I posted. Yes, there are confidential things on LETS, but you're diverting the argument now away from what we were debating.
There is nothing that is described in "Operation Red Dog" that would be a legitimate reason. Even if he were an actual licensed PI, there is nothing that has been described that gives him a legitimate reason to request or receive the information you described under any statute.
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You may find this hard to believe, but there are cops out there that will run information for their buddies despite the fact it's not legal to do so.
It is all public information. Some of it is more protected than others...can we agree there? But if I have a legitimate reason, it can be accessed. You might have to go through some red tape, but if you have a legitimate reason you can get a large portion of personal information.
Anything that you would have to "go through red tape" or show legitimacy for your request for, wouldn't be public record in the first place. Public record is ask and ye shall receive, while maybe paying a small fee for copies, etc. Such as the financial report of a fire department, minutes of a water board meeting, minutes of a Board of Education meeting, wreck report, etc. You do not have to do anything more than ask and possibly pay a fee.
If you are requesting something that you are going to have to show an order from a judge, or something similar to obtain, I wouldn't imagine that what you are requesting is a "public record".
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This thread makes me tired.
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This thread makes me tired.
Imagine there is a dog involved.....
Now aren't you alert now!
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Imagine there is a dog involved.....
Now aren't you alert now!
TIFWIW
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I forgot about this in my original reply, but thought it was funny.
A little after I started, I was logged onto my NCIC account and went to Burger King for some food. Well, there was a traffic stop and the guy's license # was like 0000xxx (the x were actually numbers). Nobody had seen one like that before, and it turns out the guy was a retired State Trooper. Apparently when Guy Hunt was in office he had the DL formats changed to the 7 character format. Well, the other dispatcher and a narcotics officer decided they wanted to see who had 0000001. Needless to say, it was a person well known to Alabamians (FYI not Bob Riley). When I got back they told me about it and I thought it was hilarious and we were making jokes about the ABI and others coming down......until I realized I was the user logged in, not her. The next day, ACJIC called down to inquire, but never really did anything about it.
You're not a cop. Cops eat donuts.
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TIFWIW
FIFWIW*
*fist it for what it's worth...did I just make up something new?
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FIFWIW*
*fist it for what it's worth...did I just make up something new?
Rememeber when a problem comes along, you must fist it.
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Yeah, at first I was all like *What?*, then I was like *Okay?*, now I'm just bored.
(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm42/theprowler64/dis-bolt-message.jpg)
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http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2009/04/former_adamsville_police_dispa.html (http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2009/04/former_adamsville_police_dispa.html)
Just because it goes with the topic.