Tigers X - Number one Source to Talk Auburn Tigers Sports
Pat Dye Field => War Damn Eagle => Topic started by: Snaggletiger on January 29, 2014, 12:39:06 PM
-
Saw a report on this last night. Why do I get the feeling that the game we all love is about to be no more? If this passes, I see this as a huge first step in killing the game. On another note, if it does go through and the players come under the definition of employees, have they considered the fact that they would have to start paying taxes on the value of that scholarship? What am I missing here? From teh al. I am a gay twerker that has no balls!!!! I also have no idea how to use the quote function to post stories, so I annoy the piss out of others. I like male genatalia in and around my mouth.
College athletes are attempting to form a labor union to begin the formal process of being recognized as employees.
Ramogi Huma, president of the National College Players Association, filed a petition in Chicago with the National Labor Relations Board (NLRB) on behalf of an undisclosed number of Northwestern football players. The move represents a significant step by college athletes to attempt to collectively bargain with the NCAA, universities and conferences.
If certified by the NLRB, the organization would be called the College Athletes Players Association (CAPA). Huma co-founded the organization with Northwestern quarterback Kain Colter and former Massachusetts basketball player Luke Bonner, the brother of NBA player Matt Bonner.
The organization is backed by the United Steelworkers union. A news conference is scheduled for today to announce "an overwhelming majority" of Northwestern football players have signed cards supporting a petition filed with the NLRB, according to a news release.
Huma told ESPN's Outside the Lines that the initial goals of the CAPA do not include a call for schools to pay salaries, but he did not rule out the possibility of the group seeking that type of compensation in the future. The ongoing Ed O'Bannon lawsuit against the NCAA filed by former and current players is seeking a 50-50 share of television revenue due to the use of athletes' names, images and likenesses on broadcasts.
Some goals listed on the CAPA web site include:
* Guaranteed coverage for sports-related medical expenses for current and former players.
* Minimizing the risk of sports-related traumatic brain injury. Reduce contact in practices, place independent concussion experts on the sidelines, and establish uniform return to play protocols.
* Improve graduation rates. Establish an educational trust fund to help former players complete their degree and reward those who graduate on time.
* Increase athletic scholarships and allow players to receive compensation for commercial sponsorships.
* Secure due process rights. Ensure players are not punished simply because they are accused of a rule violation, and any punishments should be consistent across campuses.
College athletes are not considered employees. The Colorado Supreme Court ruled in 1953 that a football player at the University of Denver was an "employee" within the context of the Colorado workers' compensation statute.
But for many decades, the NCAA has legally avoided paying worker's compensation benefits to athletes through successful wins in court. The NCAA's legal success stems from former NCAA executive director Walter Byers inventing the term "student-athlete" in 1964 for all NCAA rules as a defense from adverse legal rulings.
For instance, the Texas Worker's Compensation Commission ruled in 1993 that former TCU football player Kent Waldrep was a TCU employee when he suffered a debilitating injury and ordered the university's insurance company to pay Waldrep $70 a month for the rest of his life. The company balked, went to court, and a jury ruled Waldrep was not entitled to benefits.
Universities provide athletic scholarships as a source of compensation to athlete. The NCAA is attempting to pass a cost-of-attendance stipend for schools to choose to add beyond the current scholarship value. ESPN reported that through the years courts have recognized other students, such as graduate students who teach, as employees.
Former shoe marketer Sonny Vaccaro, a longtime critic of the NCAA, said the unionization attempt by athletes is a continued movement fought by players for many decades.
"And it came from a whole group, not an individual," Vaccaro said. "This is a very big thing. I think the athletes are more empowered than they've ever been. They can see how big intercollegiate athletics is. Strength is gathering. Players' lives cannot be controlled by commissioners' offices or in NCAA offices. It's just not the way it's going to be."
Vaccaro said if headway is not made to meet the goals of college athletes he could envision individual athletes or teams protesting games.
"Do I think maybe some day some of these teams or athletes won't show up for a major football or basketball game? More than any time in my life," Vaccaro said.
NCAA chief legal officer Donald Remy said in a statement that the attempt to turn college athletes into employees undermines getting an education, which he says is the purpose of college.
"Student-athletes are not employees, and their participation in college sports is voluntary," Remy said. "We stand for all student-athletes, not just those the unions want to professionalize. Many student-athletes are provided scholarships and many other benefits for their participation. There is no employment relationship between the NCAA, its affiliated institutions or student-athletes.
"Student-athletes are not employees within any definition of the National Labor Relations Act or the Fair Labor Standards Act. We are confident the National Labor Relations Board will find in our favor, as there is no right to organize student-athletes."
-
Crazy I know but Wonder what would happen if schools done away with athletic scholarships, only offered acedemic scholarships and started having team tryouts made up from the student body?
-
Snaggle would re-enroll
-
Crazy I know but Wonder what would happen if schools done away with athletic scholarships, only offered acedemic scholarships and started having team tryouts made up from the student body?
Watched any Division III games lately?
I'm amazed nobody has formed a professional minor league for kids right out of high school.
-
(http://badbooksgoodtimes.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/no-idea-how-stupid.gif?w=594)
-
Meh.
I'm violently opposed to players being considered employees. I think the full ride scholarship is more than enough enticement to participate in the voluntary sport.
I wouldn't mind seeing there be some sort of rule like baseball has, where they can either bypass college all-together, at their own risk, or commit to at least three years of college.
All that being said, this Players' union does not really appear to be the beginning of "the formal process of being recognized as employees" to me.
As the article briefly touches on, these are the goals of the CAPA.
http://www.ncpanow.org/more?id=0004 (http://www.ncpanow.org/more?id=0004)
1. Minimize college athletes’ brain trauma risks.
2. Raise the scholarship amount.
3. Prevent players from being stuck paying sports-related medical expenses.
4. Increase graduation rates.
5. Protect educational opportunities for student-athletes in good standing.
6. Prohibit universities from using a permanent injury suffered during athletics as a reason to reduce/eliminate a scholarship.
7. Establish and enforce uniform safety guidelines in all sports to help prevent serious injuries and avoidable deaths.
8. Eliminate restrictions on legitimate employment and players' ability to directly benefit from commercial opportunities.
9. Prohibit the punishment of college athletes that have not committed a violation.
10. Guarantee that college athletes are granted an athletic release from their university if they wish to transfer schools.
11. Allow college athletes of all sports the ability to transfer schools one time without punishment.
The only of these I really have a problem with are 8 and maybe 2.
With 8, you run the risk of what happened with the Oklahoma State car dealership. Kids getting paid exorbitant amounts of money for minimal work time. IF that could be regulated and rules actually enforced (yeah right, look at Bama), then I wouldn't necessarily be opposed.
With 2, I suppose I'm not opposed to "raise the scholarship amount", but with football, they're already getting full rides plus books, tuition, boarding, and some per diems. Don't know how much more you can give them before it's no longer scholarship, but straight up paying them. I suspect that there are no academic scholarships as valuable as football scholarships at most of these universities. If I'm wrong about that, then by all means max out what can be legitimately considered a scholarship.
-
I suppose this union is going to be free to? Riiiiiiight!
-
I still stand by the fact that no one is forcing these kids to play football.
-
I still stand by the fact that no one is forcing these kids to play football.
Without addressing the college athlete issues, no one is forcing almost any other union member to ply their trade either.
-
Without addressing the college athlete issues, no one is forcing almost any other union member to ply their trade either.
Right and what are unions about? Making sure that the "little guy" gets his. (in theory thats great) in reality the Union wants to get theirs, most of them don't give a fuck about their work staff.
-
Right and what are unions about? Making sure that the "little guy" gets his. (in theory thats great) in reality the Union wants to get theirs, most of them don't give a fuck about their work staff.
See Auto Unions from the north.
-
Again on the taxes. Amirong? Pulled up the average yearly costs for Alabama and Auburn, including tuition, books, room/board etc. Alabama was between $22-$23K. Auburn was right at $28K. The scholarship athlete is given much more when you consider meals, clothing, travel and so forth. Is $35-$40K about right? More? Anyway, assume this gets pushed through and the athlete is now considered an employee, subject to all rights of a normal employee with worker's comp benefits and health insurance. Multiply it by just 3 years and you're over $100K.
Do they not have to pay taxes on this? I'm not wise in the ways of the tax. Anyone? Bueller?
-
Again on the taxes. Amirong? Pulled up the average yearly costs for Alabama and Auburn, including tuition, books, room/board etc. Alabama was between $22-$23K. Auburn was right at $28K. The scholarship athlete is given much more when you consider meals, clothing, travel and so forth. Is $35-$40K about right? More? Anyway, assume this gets pushed through and the athlete is now considered an employee, subject to all rights of a normal employee with worker's comp benefits and health insurance. Multiply it by just 3 years and you're over $100K.
Do they not have to pay taxes on this? I'm not wise in the ways of the tax. Anyone? Bueller?
If it was considered employee compensation, I would think yes.
Otherwise, I would think nothing is changing just because they are lobbying for these protections.
-
Again on the taxes. Amirong? Pulled up the average yearly costs for Alabama and Auburn, including tuition, books, room/board etc. Alabama was between $22-$23K. Auburn was right at $28K. The scholarship athlete is given much more when you consider meals, clothing, travel and so forth. Is $35-$40K about right? More? Anyway, assume this gets pushed through and the athlete is now considered an employee, subject to all rights of a normal employee with worker's comp benefits and health insurance. Multiply it by just 3 years and you're over $100K.
Do they not have to pay taxes on this? I'm not wise in the ways of the tax. Anyone? Bueller?
Jake:
Your fired.
-
If it was considered employee compensation, I would think yes.
Otherwise, I would think nothing is changing just because they are lobbying for these protections.
Exactly. My point is I don't think they're thinking this thing through. I think it's a given that a huge percentage of these scholarship athletes would not be at Auburn or Bama or Georgia unless someone paid their way because of football or basketball. Now, you suddenly force their families to start paying taxes on tens of thousands of $$$ each year?
-
Meh.
I'm violently opposed to players being considered employees. I think the full ride scholarship is more than enough enticement to participate in the voluntary sport.
I wouldn't mind seeing there be some sort of rule like baseball has, where they can either bypass college all-together, at their own risk, or commit to at least three years of college.
All that being said, this Players' union does not really appear to be the beginning of "the formal process of being recognized as employees" to me.
As the article briefly touches on, these are the goals of the CAPA.
http://www.ncpanow.org/more?id=0004 (http://www.ncpanow.org/more?id=0004)
The only of these I really have a problem with are 8 and maybe 2.
With 8, you run the risk of what happened with the Oklahoma State car dealership. Kids getting paid exorbitant amounts of money for minimal work time. IF that could be regulated and rules actually enforced (yeah right, look at Bama), then I wouldn't necessarily be opposed.
With 2, I suppose I'm not opposed to "raise the scholarship amount", but with football, they're already getting full rides plus books, tuition, boarding, and some per diems. Don't know how much more you can give them before it's no longer scholarship, but straight up paying them. I suspect that there are no academic scholarships as valuable as football scholarships at most of these universities. If I'm wrong about that, then by all means max out what can be legitimately considered a scholarship.
I learned something on the ride home yesterday from our local radio show (which isn't very good). Former Bama player Wes Neighbors is one of the hosts and his son plays for LSU so he has some experience with this stuff but they talked about the fact that kids on full academic scholarship actually get more money than an athlete on full scholarship. The reason being is that kids on academic ride get full "cost of attendance" (a larger per diem) and the kids on athletic do not. The reason is that the NCAA limits the athletic scholarship per diem amounts.
-
I learned something on the ride home yesterday from our local radio show (which isn't very good). Former Bama player Wes Neighbors is one of the hosts and his son plays for LSU so he has some experience with this stuff but they talked about the fact that kids on full academic scholarship actually get more money than an athlete on full scholarship. The reason being is that kids on academic ride get full "cost of attendance" (a larger per diem) and the kids on athletic do not. The reason is that the NCAA limits the athletic scholarship per diem amounts.
See, then I'm ok with raising their stipends.
-
See, then I'm ok with raising their stipends.
I believe it's on the table to raise their scholarships to equal the academic scholarships. It was discussed at the recent NCAA meetings.
-
My Googles new alert for "university of alabama pay for play" just produced this link:
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/sbnation/SBNation_20140128_No__college_football_players_aren_t_unionizing_for_pay-for-play.html (http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/sbnation/SBNation_20140128_No__college_football_players_aren_t_unionizing_for_pay-for-play.html)
-
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ykxm4M0s2QQ/TehGjxzrk2I/AAAAAAAAArw/EcInPYzotss/s1600/wizard_oz.jpg#the%2520wizard%2520in%2520the%2520wizard%2520of%2520oz%2520640x478)
I wonder who's pulling the strings in all this...?
-
I still stand by the fact that no one is forcing these kids to play football.
what this guy ^^ said.
Nor are they employees at all.
-
@MZoneBlog: So Northwestern football players want to form a union? Judging by Wildcats play last season, I thought they already did & were on strike
*snicker*
-
AJ McTurdbugle is in favor of this idea.
Of course he is.
I think it's one of the worst ideas I've ever heard.
Want to fix it? Do two things.
1) Open the draft up to any player. Let them see where they are drafted and if they like it, go. If not, stay. Wouldn't that be better for Tre? He's a first or second round pick and he says "thanks, but I need to go." He drops to the fifth or sixth round and he gets the opportunity to say "wow, that's not what I expected. Let me stay in school and work on getting stronger and better. " How many seventh rounders really make it in the NFL anyway? The league isn't losing anything because all of those picked in rounds 1-3 are likely to stick. After that it's a crapshoot. Any senior not picked could still give free agency a shot.
2) Give the athletes a percentage of merchandise sales. They can collect their share three years after they leave or a year after they graduate. Every sticker, magnet, dog collar, jersey, Christmas ornament, sweatshirt, hat, keychain, spatula, blanket, golf ball or whatever trinket with an Auburn logo is made just a little more desirable with every yard a Tre Mason gains, every step Chris Davis takes. They should get a share of that since they are largely responsible for creating demand. So every player gets x% of merchandise revenue.
They also deserve without a doubt extra money for anything that specifically portrays them individually. When you buy a jersey with 23 on it, are you really just picking a number at random? When you buy the paintings of the kick return, isn't that Davis there on the canvas? I know a player who is on thousand of Auburn fan's walls in a well known painting. Those paintings sold for hundreds of dollars each. He realized not one single penny from that. Not only that, but the artist wasn't allowed to give him or his mother a free copy of the painting. They had to buy it. That's not right. The school got a hefty licensing fee and multiple copies of the painting. Meanwhile the player who inspired the painting got nothing.
If you take that money and put it in a trust for the players, so that they get a bigger percentage the longer they are in the program it's a win-win-win. Player leaves the program and isn't going to the NFL, he's still got a nice start on life as reward for his effort.