Tigers X - Number one Source to Talk Auburn Tigers Sports
Pat Dye Field => War Damn Eagle => Topic started by: The Six on July 19, 2013, 03:24:22 PM
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http://www.auburntigers.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/071913aac.html (http://www.auburntigers.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/071913aac.html)
Thirty years ago, when the wishbone offense seemed all but unstoppable, I don’t recall anyone suggesting the rules be changed.
Here are a couple of things the complaining coaches didn’t tell you: 1. If the offense substitutes, officials are required to give the defense time to substitute as well. 2. The defense can substitute anyway if players are ready to hit the field as soon as the previous play ends. That’s not really what those coaches want. They want to be able to see the personnel the opponent has in the game and substitute accordingly.
Why has this suddenly become an issue? Auburn won a national championship running Gus Malzahn’s hurryup, no-huddle, and he’s back. Texas A&M beat eventual national champion Alabama in Tuscaloosa last season. Oregon has been knocking on the door for almost a decade playing offense at breakneck speed. Hugh Freeze brought Ole Miss back from the bottom of the SEC with a rapid-fire offense last season. Baylor, West Virginia and others are piling up points.
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Too fat; dr
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Too fat; dr
Trimmed down for easier digestion.
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I think that those who say Saban "can't stop it" or are scared of it are a little off base. Is it a pain in the ass to prep for? Yeah, I'm sure that aggrivates the shit out of him. I'm sure that he doesn't find joy in playing against it. But in the same sense, the only HUNH teams to beat Alabama recently had a Heisman QB under center. In one of those cases (AU in 2010), Alabama was beating the shit out of them until Cam Newton decided to Superman that hoe. The other, Alabama was depantsed early in the game and was 5 yards away from a winning score. The week after an absolute slobberknocker with LSU in Death Valley.
Horseshoes and hand grenades, I know. And I'm not saying that I totally agree with him. Just sayin.....
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I think that those who say Saban "can't stop it" or are scared of it are a little off base. Is it a pain in the ass to prep for? Yeah, I'm sure that aggrivates the shit out of him. I'm sure that he doesn't find joy in playing against it. But in the same sense, the only HUNH teams to beat Alabama recently had a Heisman QB under center. In one of those cases (AU in 2010), Alabama was beating the shit out of them until Cam Newton decided to Superman that hoe. The other, Alabama was depantsed early in the game and was 5 yards away from a winning score. The week after an absolute slobberknocker with LSU in Death Valley.
Horseshoes and hand grenades, I know. And I'm not saying that I totally agree with him. Just sayin.....
Well said. I don't think the HUNH loses it's appeal. Diversity is good for the game and though it might be modified , I think it is here to stay.
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I think that those who say Saban "can't stop it" or are scared of it are a little off base. Is it a pain in the ass to prep for? Yeah, I'm sure that aggrivates the shit out of him. I'm sure that he doesn't find joy in playing against it. But in the same sense, the only HUNH teams to beat Alabama recently had a Heisman QB under center. In one of those cases (AU in 2010), Alabama was beating the shit out of them until Cam Newton decided to Superman that hoe. The other, Alabama was depantsed early in the game and was 5 yards away from a winning score. The week after an absolute slobberknocker with LSU in Death Valley.
Horseshoes and hand grenades, I know. And I'm not saying that I totally agree with him. Just sayin.....
So, you agree with Saban trying to force NCAA rules against HUNH?
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So, you agree with Saban trying to force NCAA rules against HUNH?
Yes and no. Technically, does it have the potential to cause more injuries. Probably. I really don't know. I'm not sure if anybody can answer that. But, I don't doubt that one of the reasons behind bringing it up is because it's a pain in the ass to deal with either. My main point here is that most people point at Saban when this is brought up, but he has had quite a bit of success against HUNH teams while at Alabama.
I still think that the best defense against it is a good offense. Ball control. Your offense keeps their defense on the field. Their HUNH is on and off the field in a flash. Your offense runs another 7 minute drive. After a while, you force the HUNH to slow down, otherwise their defense can't walk by halftime. There isn't anything just absolutely revolutionary as far as X's and O's. Just offensive ball control, and assignment defense will put you in a good spot against HUNH.
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Yes and no. Technically, does it have the potential to cause more injuries. Probably. I really don't know. I'm not sure if anybody can answer that. But, I don't doubt that one of the reasons behind bringing it up is because it's a pain in the ass to deal with either. My main point here is that most people point at Saban when this is brought up, but he has had quite a bit of success against HUNH teams while at Alabama.
I still think that the best defense against it is a good offense. Ball control. Your offense keeps their defense on the field. Their HUNH is on and off the field in a flash. Your offense runs another 7 minute drive. After a while, you force the HUNH to slow down, otherwise their defense can't walk by halftime. There isn't anything just absolutely revolutionary as far as X's and O's. Just offensive ball control, and assignment defense will put you in a good spot against HUNH.
I agree. I would like to add, a good offense also keeps that teams defense off the field which leads to less injury. I just think Saban and Bileatme's stupid reasoning for the NCAA rule they are pushing is just that.....stupid.
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Yes and no. Technically, does it have the potential to cause more injuries. Probably. I really don't know. I'm not sure if anybody can answer that. But, I don't doubt that one of the reasons behind bringing it up is because it's a pain in the ass to deal with either. My main point here is that most people point at Saban when this is brought up, but he has had quite a bit of success against HUNH teams while at Alabama.
I still think that the best defense against it is a good offense. Ball control. Your offense keeps their defense on the field. Their HUNH is on and off the field in a flash. Your offense runs another 7 minute drive. After a while, you force the HUNH to slow down, otherwise their defense can't walk by halftime. There isn't anything just absolutely revolutionary as far as X's and O's. Just offensive ball control, and assignment defense will put you in a good spot against HUNH.
I highlighted the part where injuries happen too. And no, the HUNH doesn't fuckin cause injuries, anyone that says that it does is fuckin retarded and just trying to do whatever they can to put a stop to something that gives them headaches...Football causes injuries (period).
You putting that inbred bammer spin on it doesn't surprise me at all...btw, that's the same approach that Coach Fuhrer is using, the "I just think it should be looked into, does it cause injuries, I don't know...but tired defenders are more liable to be injured, blah, blah, blah." He's not saying it, but he's saying it, type garbage. Before his buddy Mark Emmert leaves the NCAA President's seat, there will be a ruling put in to slow down the HUNH...mark it down.
I know a lot of people will say that it'll never happen, they'll be wrong, a rule will be put in to specifically target the HUNH. It might be a small rule, but it will slow the offenses down. Something like allowing the defenders to substitute after a first down, give them 15 seconds to substitute unless it's under the 2 minute mark in the 2nd and 4th quarters...something, but it will be done, because Herr Wolf said so.
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I agree. I would like to add, a good offense also keeps that teams defense off the field which leads to less injury. I just think Saban and Bileatme's stupid reasoning for the NCAA rule they are pushing is just that.....stupid.
Agree and the word "safety" is being employed (in this case) as a tool only to conform others to their way.
I love the HUNH and I think it is here to stay. In fact I never want to see us run anything else because if we do it would indicate Auburn has failed.
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Agree and the word "safety" is being employed (in this case) as a tool only to conform others to their way.
I love the HUNH and I think it is here to stay. In fact I never want to see us run anything else because if we do it would indicate Auburn has failed.
(http://blogs.clarionledger.com/um/files/2011/08/2753908.jpg)(http://matchbin-assets.s3.amazonaws.com/public/sites/577/assets/4G4G_7M0F_Chizik_Iron_Bowl.JPG)
That silly stuff Malzahn runs isn't football. We got to get away from that. He's the devil, people. The devil. Can't be running that devil voodoo at our program.
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I agree. I would like to add, a good offense also keeps that teams defense off the field which leads to less injury. I just think Saban and Bileatme's stupid reasoning for the NCAA rule they are pushing is just that.....stupid.
Yeah, for their team...but what about the opponent's defense? They'll be on the field longer if that's the case, plus if you throw in HGH, like in uat's case, they'll be bigger and stronger...they'll hit harder, leading to more injuries.
With Coach Fuhrer's stance against the HUNH, stating that it injures the defensive players because they aren't allowed to substitute, why did he run the HUNH multiple times last season, not including under the 2 minute mark? Guess he was meaning to purposely injure their players, since that's his belief and all.
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Yeah, for their team...but what about the opponent's defense? They'll be on the field longer if that's the case, plus if you throw in HGH, like in uat's case, they'll be bigger and stronger...they'll hit harder, leading to more injuries.
With Coach Fuhrer's stance against the HUNH, stating that it injures the defensive players because they aren't allowed to substitute, why did he run the HUNH multiple times last season, not including under the 2 minute mark? Guess he was meaning to purposely injure their players, since that's his belief and all.
My point, I think your's is(?), is that there are many ways to protect ones defense and giving the defense time to substitute is way down the list on the importance level. Just screams out as having a different motive in everyones mind except for the updikes and the piggies.
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Yes and no. Technically, does it have the potential to cause more injuries. Probably. I really don't know. I'm not sure if anybody can answer that. But, I don't doubt that one of the reasons behind bringing it up is because it's a pain in the ass to deal with either. My main point here is that most people point at Saban when this is brought up, but he has had quite a bit of success against HUNH teams while at Alabama.
I still think that the best defense against it is a good offense. Ball control. Your offense keeps their defense on the field. Their HUNH is on and off the field in a flash. Your offense runs another 7 minute drive. After a while, you force the HUNH to slow down, otherwise their defense can't walk by halftime. There isn't anything just absolutely revolutionary as far as X's and O's. Just offensive ball control, and assignment defense will put you in a good spot against HUNH.
Tell munchkin to stop picking players (picking is for basketball only) then we'll give him a stump to stand on. Otherwiz, fuck Saban in dat mouth with PM's spare tire.
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(http://blogs.clarionledger.com/um/files/2011/08/2753908.jpg)(http://matchbin-assets.s3.amazonaws.com/public/sites/577/assets/4G4G_7M0F_Chizik_Iron_Bowl.JPG)
That silly stuff Malzahn runs isn't football. We got to get away from that. He's the devil, people. The devil. Can't be running that devil voodoo at our program.
(http://i1234.photobucket.com/albums/ff417/GoCocks/woody-dabo-swinney.png) (http://media.photobucket.com/user/GoCocks/media/woody-dabo-swinney.png.html)
I'm voodoo with a lake yall!
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...in one of those cases (AU in 2010), Alabama was beating the shit out of them until Cam Newton decided to Superman that hoe. The other, Alabama was depantsed early in the game and was 5 yards away from a winning score. The week after an absolute slobberknocker with LSU in Death Valley.
Horseshoes and hand grenades, I know. And I'm not saying that I totally agree with him. Just sayin.....
You want the truth? The 2010 loss to Auburn happened because Auburn changed up their signaling. As for the loss against aTm, you stated that the uat players were beatdown tired after the LSU game, right? I agree they were dead legged, but LSU doesn't run the HUNH. So, why were the players tired? Probably because it didn't matter what type of Offense that you go against, stamina is the name of the game.
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You want the truth? The 2010 loss to Auburn happened because Auburn changed up their signaling.
Just to expand upon that statement.....
http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2011/11/how_the_2010_iron_bowl_got_tur.html
The drawback of running a no-huddle offense is signals can be more easily deciphered. Auburn graduate assistant Rhett Lashlee, who worked closely with offensive coordinator Gus Malzahn, said he's sure Alabama picked up on a few calls.
"We were able to change some things up, but we didn't overhaul like crazy," Lashlee said. "I never felt they knew everything and that's why we were struggling (early in the game). They had a good plan and just executed."
Zachery said Auburn changed the meaning of the signals in the second half. "Teams were reading our signals all year," he said. "So we just made adjustments in the second half. We had more than one play for each signal. That was routine."
As for the loss against aTm, you stated that the uat players were beatdown tired after the LSU game, right? I agree they were dead legged, but LSU doesn't run the HUNH. So, why were the players tired? Probably because it didn't matter what type of Offense that you go against, stamina is the name of the game.
You can have all the stamina in the world, but it doesn't necessarily mean you're going to feel like it's Week 1 after playing LSU. It takes a physical and mental toll. Stamina doesn't cure all that ails you.
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Just to expand upon that statement.....
http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2011/11/how_the_2010_iron_bowl_got_tur.htmlYou can have all the stamina in the world, but it doesn't necessarily mean you're going to feel like it's Week 1 after playing LSU. It takes a physical and mental toll. Stamina doesn't cure all that ails you.
Physical toll can also lead to injuries, which is my fuckin point. Your little midget of a coach thinks that the number of plays causes injuries. Well, Team A runs a HUNH Offense and is able to run 80 plays in the game against uat, Team B runs a Pro-Style Offense with a 290lb. battering ram as the lead blocking FB, they only run 60 plays against uat. Which scenario do you think causes more "physical toll" and possibly more injuries?
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Physical toll can also lead to injuries, which is my fuckin point. Your little midget of a coach thinks that the number of plays causes injuries. Well, Team A runs a HUNH Offense and is able to run 80 plays in the game against uat, Team B runs a Pro-Style Offense with a 290lb. battering ram as the lead blocking FB, they only run 60 plays against uat. Which scenario do you think causes more "physical toll" and possibly more injuries?
Obviously whichever causes them to miss out on the MNC game...
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Physical toll can also lead to injuries, which is my fuckin point. Your little midget of a coach thinks that the number of plays causes injuries. Well, Team A runs a HUNH Offense and is able to run 80 plays in the game against uat, Team B runs a Pro-Style Offense with a 290lb. battering ram as the lead blocking FB, they only run 60 plays against uat. Which scenario do you think causes more "physical toll" and possibly more injuries?
One of the better counterarguments actually.
If anything, if we're talking about which style of offense and defense is more risky and more likely to be frowned upon by the concussion-scaremongers, it's Alabama.
Forget the fullback. How about their running backs? 6'0 250 steroid freaks running full speed down hill looking to plow through people.
In fact, Alabama is known for being the team that's physical. They wear people down. Just listen to commentators during a typical Alabama game. Big, strong, and physical. That's the Alabama way.
Unless it's 100 degrees outside, the worst effect the HUNH is going to have on a defense is fatigue and making them run slowly. They'll gasp for breath and if it's bad enough they'll fall down needing to be taken out.
60 plays of a behemoth slamming his head into you causes concussions, bodily injuries, and physical wear.
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Hell I always looked at the HUNH as a way for offenses to gain the possesions back that they lost when the play clock moved from 24 to 40 seconds a few years back (another rule change that greatly benefited the updyke stlye of football). All this talk is nothing more than updyke propaganda started by the head updyke pure and simple. Players today ain't playing anymore plays than they were a few years ago.
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Saban usually loses a few players each year due to "injuries", mostly in the (summer?). Just because they can't cut the mustard. He's afraid that he'll lose some that are actually hurt. PAIN.
I'm glad that Gus finally has a chance to run his scheme on the big stage. His Defense has to be loaded with some long winded motherfuckers or they will collapse in the 4th quarter.
Oh yeah. Fuck Saban and what he wants.
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Saban usually loses a few players each year due to "injuries", mostly in the (summer?). Just because they can't cut the mustard. He's afraid that he'll lose some that are actually hurt. PAIN.
I'm glad that Gus finally has a chance to run his scheme on the big stage. His Defense has to be loaded with some long winded motherfuckers or they will collapse in the 4th quarter.
Oh yeah. Fuck Saban and what he wants.
The good thing is Auburn's defense, under Coach Johnson, isn't a bend but don't break type defense anymore...meaning, Auburn's defense will take a lot more chances, they'll blitz more & they'll play closer to the LOS at the CB positions (no more 15 yard cushions).
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Saban usually loses a few players each year due to "injuries", mostly in the (summer?). Just because they can't cut the mustard. He's afraid that he'll lose some that are actually hurt. PAIN.
I'm glad that Gus finally has a chance to run his scheme on the big stage. His Defense has to be loaded with some long winded motherfuckers or they will collapse in the 4th quarter.
Oh yeah. Fuck Saban and what he wants.
You don't say much sir but when you do you get straight to the point and I applaud you for it.
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It's cool if the injuries are caused by his own players hitting each other, though (stolt from ITAT):
http://www.jsonline.com/sports...-215404221.html
For anyone worried, Lacy points to practices at Alabama. On the scout team, he was a punching bag. One play, on a blitz, Javier Arenas drilled Lacy's AC joint. Someone on the sideline stuffed a pad over the tender shoulder, tapped Lacy on the back and sent him back in for seconds.
"Unless you were dead or your leg was physically broken or something like that," Lacy says, "there was no way to get out of practice."
At Alabama, this was the culture. Play through pain or lose your spot. There's always another player in waiting. And Lacy, linebacker Nico Johnson repeats, is "all business." If he doesn't speak with a passion, he plays with a passion. By midseason last fall, when Alabama's good-not-great ground game was a concern, Johnson remembers telling Lacy to "play with a purpose."
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http://cfbmatrix.com/speed-may-kill-but-slow-gets-you-hurt/
Speed May Kill, but Slow Gets You Hurt on Offense
By Dave Bartoo
National CFB Attrition Expert and Analytics Consultant
and Founder of the College Football Matrix
I love assumptions about college football and finding new ways to look at data and information. Whether it is showing the near zero value of returning starters myth for elite programs, or the fact that SOS rankings are not valid and bear no purpose but to drive better OOC games, using trends and numbers to prove a point is an interesting activity.
One person, Coach Bret Bielema, caught my attention with his new found interest in ‘fast’ football causing more injuries than, ummm, ‘regular’ football? ‘Slow’ football? I did not understand what the alternative message would be for this stance. If ‘fast’ football causes more injuries, why not slow it down. But if you slow it down, then why not put a number of plays per game limit. You see, that game can be played to the wacko point of stopping football altogether.
LISTEN )))) As I walk you through this article Speed Kills But Slow May Hurt You
I am digressing from the “fast’ versus ‘slow’ point of his statement and my simple review. The way I see it just take the top teams with the most plays per game (‘fast teams’) and divide out the games lost to injury in an offense to total plays run. thus getting an injury per play ratio. Do the same for the bottom 20 teams of plays run per game (‘slow’ teams) to get a comparable injury per play ratio.
Top 20 ‘Fast’ Teams in FBS Football 2012
Average Plays per Game: 83.12
Total Starts Lost to Injury: 143
Average Number of Starts Lost Per Team: 7.15
Average Starts Lost per Play: .086
Top 20 ‘Slow’ Teams in FBS Football 2012
Average Plays per Game: 65.85
Total Starts Lost to Injury: 151
Average Number of Starts Lost Per Team: 7.55
Average Starts Lost per Play: .115
For all of FBS football in 2012, the ‘fast’ teams averaged over 17 plays per game more than the bottom 20 ‘slow’ teams. This is 26% more plays run per game than a ‘slow’ teams. Even though this adds up to over 340 more plays run in a season, the ‘slow’ teams still lost 8 more starts to injury than the ‘fast teams. Additionally, the average number of starts lost per play was 33% HIGHER for the ‘slow’ teams. Although this is all FBS programs and just the 2012 season, that is a huge argument in favor of ‘fast’ play.
I know, I was thinking the same thing you are “That’s all FBS teams Dave, how about just big boy AQ football.†If you were hoping the numbers got better. Stop. It gets worse. Much worse.
The top 15 ‘fast*’ teams in AQ football in 2012 ran 2697 MORE plays than the 15 ‘slow’ teams in 2012. This resulted in 24 FEWER starts lost to injury to the ‘Fast’ teams. The ‘fast’ teams lost just 5.87 starts to injury in 2012 which is 22.7% less that the 7.50 starts lost per team for the ‘slow’ teams. The amazing stat is that injuries that created starts lost per play occurred at a rate 56% greater for teams that play ‘slow’.
Top 15 ‘Fast’ Teams in AQ Football 2012
Average Plays per Game: 81.2
Total Starts Lost to Injury: 88
Average Number of Starts Lost Per Team: 5.87
Average Starts Lost per Play: .072
Top 15 ‘Slow’ Teams in AQ Football 2012
Average Plays per Game: 66.2
Total Starts Lost to Injury: 112
Average Number of Starts Lost Per Team: 7.50
Average Starts Lost per Play: .113
While this may not settle the argument of the safety of ‘fast’ up-tempo for coaches or fans against the up-tempo style of play, it certainly does not cement the suggestion that ‘fast’ play causes more injuries. Certainly in 2012 is was the opposite of that suggestion as total starts lost to injury and frequency of this injury per play was higher across the board for all of FBS football and AQ football teams.
Data thanks to the folks at teamrankings.com for their contributions and philsteele.com for injury numbers
[divider]
*2012 ‘Slow’ Teams 2012 ‘Fast’ Teams
Cincinnati Baylor
Mississippi State Texas A&M
USC Oregon
Kansas State Duke
Utah UCLA
Alabama Arizona State
Florida Syracuse
Temple Clemson
Michigan West Virginia
Rutgers Oklahoma
Wisconsin Washington State
Auburn Oklahoma State
Georgia Arizona
Kentucky Penn State
Minnesota NC State
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I want to like that guy's conclusion, but how the fuck do you figure:
games lost to injury in an offense
??
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I want to like that guy's conclusion, but how the fuck do you figure:
??
Concussions, ligament damage, I don't know.
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More interesting to me is that Eddie Lacy - highly sought after 4 star running back - was used as a punching bag for Saban's goons on defense. And that they targeted those hits. Talk about humbling. Maybe if we'd done that to Dyer - or actually believed in contact at practice - he would have turned out differently.
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I want to like that guy's conclusion, but how the fuck do you figure:
??
Per player. He also included "Starts lost to injury" in his analysis.
Not games lost because of injuries. Games in which a given player was unable to participate.
The wording is confusing, but the context implies that that is what he meant.
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More interesting to me is that Eddie Lacy - highly sought after 4 star running back - was used as a punching bag for Saban's goons on defense. And that they targeted those hits. Talk about humbling. Maybe if we'd done that to Dyer - or actually believed in contact at practice - he would have turned out differently.
Highly sought after? Not once everyone realized he was dumber than a bag of rocks. He wouldn't have been able to get in anywhere else besides uat.
As for Brett Bielema, the reason why he's so against the HUNH is because nearly every single High School in Arkansas runs some form of that type of Offense, thanks in large part to Coach Gustav Malzahn. A lot of those offensive players don't fit in with his Pro-Style.
That's why he's so fuckin adamant about it.