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Pat Dye Field => War Damn Eagle => Topic started by: Snaggletiger on July 12, 2012, 05:22:21 PM

Title: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: Snaggletiger on July 12, 2012, 05:22:21 PM
Been listening to a lot of sports talk today and obviously today, along with the last few months, the PSU scandal has been at the forefront.  Everyone has an opinion and most seem to come down on the side of hammering the University and/or the football program.  I have no dog in the fight and certainly no allegiance to Sandusky U.  But, I am kind of torn over what, if anything should happen.

On one hand, I simply don't see this as an NCAA matter.  When the NCAA gets involved, it usually stems from a program trying to get a leg up on everyone else, whether it be paying players, fixing grades, Phi Mu coke whores for recruits or any other illegal benefit.  While I think everyone involved in the scandal, from Sandusky all the way up to the Pres. and anyone else involved, should be ripped a new one both criminally and civilly, I can't see shutting down the program or hitting it with sanctions because of criminal acts that had nothing to do with gaining an advantage or providing illegal benefits in any way.

However....the other side of me sees where it could be exactly that.  You've basically covered up horrible criminal activity in order to save the program any embarrassment and try to keep your football program at least at status quo level.  I believe it's the nature and severity of the acts and ommissions that has everyone up in arms.  If Sandusky had a problem with theft or defrauding investors etc. and Paterno and company tried to cover it up, would we be talking about this?  But buggering little boys is off the charts wrong...so here we are.

I don't have an answer.  I think I fall on the side of keeping the NCAA out of it and letting the criminal and civil systems handle everything.  But you won't get an argument from me if they do come in and drop the hammer.  Thoughts? 
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: AUChizad on July 12, 2012, 05:38:02 PM
I feel exactly 100% exactly like you do about it. Almost wrote out my thoughts almost exactly as you did, but hadn't had the time to put it into words.

I get that not only were horrific crimes fostered there, but the coverup to damage their reputation pretty much tainted the whole program.

But I feel like people clamoring for the NCAA to "Give 'em the Death Penalty" have their priorities all out of whack. It's an extension of how I feel about sports in general as of late. People want blood. They want the NCAA to shut a program down so there's one less program to compete with.

This has nothing to do with gaining an unfair advantage. Every single party remotely involved should be punished to the full extent of the law. Let our justice system take care of them. It will. Unless they were selling kids into prostitution to fund the athletic program, this is out of their jurisdiction IMO.
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: djsimp on July 12, 2012, 05:53:56 PM
I don't feel like all the students at Penn State should be punished for something they had nothing to do with but they should for sure clean house in the administration and other high up people. Also, Penn State should pay in full for everyone of those victims higher education.
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: wesfau2 on July 12, 2012, 06:38:42 PM
After the civil suits are paid out, PSU won't be able to afford to field a tiddly winks team.
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: AWK on July 12, 2012, 08:29:05 PM
After the civil suits are paid out, PSU won't be able to afford to field a tiddly winks team.
Fact.  Don't need the NCAA.  Penn State will be renamed Kids Molested by Sandusky State University after the civil suits.
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: Kaos on July 12, 2012, 09:02:37 PM
I feel weird about this. 

It's like there was one mistake.  Maybe Sandusky convinced them he was on drugs, had a tumor or it wasn't what they thought it was. 

They made the decision at that point to keep things on the down low. 

Then when it came back up it rolled into preservation mode.  You've covered once, if you speak out now EVERYBODY is ruined. 

I know a lot of people with great character and integrity who, when faced with utter and permanent ruin, take that one tiny step that leads to two that leads to three and then it's too late. 

Not defending necessarily, but it's so damn easy now when you have the totality of it all to say what should or shouldn't have been done.  The decisions at the time may have looked different. 

I don't think Joe was a bad guy.  I think he made one bad decision that snowballed.  And I think it's possible that at the time he made the decision he might have thought he was doing what was best for everybody.  But probably not. 

This isn't the NCAA's business.  it's a criminal/civil matter.

I do think it shows what can happen when a person becomes so powerful that no one is willing to challenge him.  Sounds As Bad As Nutjob across the state?
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: The Prowler on July 12, 2012, 10:26:44 PM
I feel weird about this. 

It's like there was one mistake.  Maybe Sandusky convinced them he was on drugs, had a tumor or it wasn't what they thought it was. 

They made the decision at that point to keep things on the down low. 

Then when it came back up it rolled into preservation mode.  You've covered once, if you speak out now EVERYBODY is ruined. 

I know a lot of people with great character and integrity who, when faced with utter and permanent ruin, take that one tiny step that leads to two that leads to three and then it's too late. 

Not defending necessarily, but it's so damn easy now when you have the totality of it all to say what should or shouldn't have been done.  The decisions at the time may have looked different. 

I don't think Joe was a bad guy.  I think he made one bad decision that snowballed.  And I think it's possible that at the time he made the decision he might have thought he was doing what was best for everybody.  But probably not. 

This isn't the NCAA's business.  it's a criminal/civil matter.

I do think it shows what can happen when a person becomes so powerful that no one is willing to challenge him.  Sounds As Bad As Nutjob across the state?
Yeah...and while we're at it, make sure that Ray Gricar fella doesn't say anything (gotta cover all the bases).
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: Kaos on July 12, 2012, 10:41:35 PM
Yeah...and while we're at it, make sure that Ray Gricar fella doesn't say anything (gotta cover all the bases).

I don't know who this is. 
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: JR4AU on July 13, 2012, 12:35:42 AM
I feel weird about this. 

It's like there was one mistake.  Maybe Sandusky convinced them he was on drugs, had a tumor or it wasn't what they thought it was. 

They made the decision at that point to keep things on the down low. 

Then when it came back up it rolled into preservation mode.  You've covered once, if you speak out now EVERYBODY is ruined. 

I know a lot of people with great character and integrity who, when faced with utter and permanent ruin, take that one tiny step that leads to two that leads to three and then it's too late. 

Not defending necessarily, but it's so damn easy now when you have the totality of it all to say what should or shouldn't have been done.  The decisions at the time may have looked different. 

I don't think Joe was a bad guy.  I think he made one bad decision that snowballed.  And I think it's possible that at the time he made the decision he might have thought he was doing what was best for everybody.  But probably not. 

This isn't the NCAA's business.  it's a criminal/civil matter.

I do think it shows what can happen when a person becomes so powerful that no one is willing to challenge him.  Sounds As Bad As Nutjob across the state?

Nothing more to add.  Spot on.
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: Kaos on July 13, 2012, 07:27:33 AM
Nothing more to add.  Spot on.

Scarbinsky disagrees and his argument is compelling if emotionally charged. 

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2012/07/penn_states_football_problem_d.html#incart_river_default

All Bama fans want Paterno destroyed and disgraced.  Then they'll turn their venom on Bobby. The goal is to shove Bryant's moldy carcass back to the top.
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: bottomfeeder on July 13, 2012, 08:04:14 AM
They should be forced to change their name to Pedophile State.
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: Godfather on July 13, 2012, 08:43:14 AM
See I think this is more than football. I could care less if they get the death penalty or not.

I really don't know what you do, I think that is what a lot of people are struggling with.

Like I said in the other thread I think you should take away their accreditation.  Which by in large would shut them down, I really think this is that big.  My problem with this solution or the death penalty is who does this really hurt, but more innocent people. College Students, Faculty, Staff, people that had nothing to do with the cover up. 

However, I do believe that an example does need to be made, to show everyone that something like this cannot be tolerated. I just don't know what that example should be.
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: bottomfeeder on July 13, 2012, 08:50:38 AM
See I think this is more than football. I could care less if they get the death penalty or not.

I really don't know what you do, I think that is what a lot of people are struggling with.

Like I said in the other thread I think you should take away their accreditation.  Which by in large would shut them down, I really think this is that big.  My problem with this solution or the death penalty is who does this really hurt, but more innocent people. College Students, Faculty, Staff, people that had nothing to do with the cover up. 

However, I do believe that an example does need to be made, to show everyone that something like this cannot be tolerated. I just don't know what that example should be.

Any and all accomplices should see prison time and be subject to civil suits by the victims. All internal records should be confiscated to prove the cases.
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: Kaos on July 13, 2012, 09:13:01 AM
Here's what puzzles me.

At the time Sandusky "retired" he was at the top of the game.  Considered one of the best DC's in the country. The heir apparent to Paterno. Definite HC material.

So he leaves and NOBODY calls to interview him for an opening? He's not in the mix for any job that comes open around that time? 

That seems weird. Did Paterno blackball him? We're his antics more widely known?

Something isn't right.
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: Saniflush on July 13, 2012, 09:15:58 AM
Here's what puzzles me.

At the time Sandusky "retired" he was at the top of the game.  Considered one of the best DC's in the country. The heir apparent to Paterno. Definite HC material.

So he leaves and NOBODY calls to interview him for an opening? He's not in the mix for any job that comes open around that time? 

That seems weird. Did Paterno blackball him? We're his antics more widely known?

Something isn't right.

Exactly.  At one time he was thought to be the heir apparent for Joe Pa before anyone realized Paterno was going to stay on so long.
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: CCTAU on July 13, 2012, 09:50:44 AM
This isn't the NCAA's business.  it's a criminal/civil matter.

This is where I lean. The NCAA already thinks that they are the end all to be all. Do we really need to give them the power to venture into these waters. Many of you are so upset that you are willing to allow this to happen to get to what you perceive as justice. Don't fall into the "well its for the kids" mindset. When we start doing that, we start compromising the rights. This will work itself out in court. If any actions need to be taken against PSU, it should come from an education standpoint, not an athletic one. This is not within the NCAA's sphere. So lets not allow them to enter it.
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: Godfather on July 13, 2012, 10:00:27 AM
This is where I lean. The NCAA already thinks that they are the end all to be all. Do we really need to give them the power to venture into these waters. Many of you are so upset that you are willing to allow this to happen to get to what you perceive as justice. Don't fall into the "well its for the kids" mindset. When we start doing that, we start compromising the rights. This will work itself out in court. If any actions need to be taken against PSU, it should come from an education standpoint, not an athletic one. This is not within the NCAA's sphere. So lets not allow them to enter it.

Why do you hate sexy children?
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: Saniflush on July 13, 2012, 10:13:16 AM
Why do you hate sexy children?

Jerry, you'll appreciate this.............
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: Kaos on July 16, 2012, 08:15:59 AM
It seems every sportswriter in the country is calling on the NCAA to eviscerate the Penn State program. 

I think that's completely wrong.  The NCAA's role is to monitor the amateur status of the athletes.  It should become involved only in issues related to a student's eligibility or academic progress.  It has no place in criminal matters. 

If the NCAA acts on Penn State it sets a terrible precedent. 

If the can sanction in the Sandusky case, what prevents it from swooping down on Tuscaloosa after a few players kick out police car windows, sell cocaine and attempt to rob students?  What punishment should that collection of transgressions warrant?  Saban certainly didn't have his program under control (and doesn't now, he's just able to get situations buried).  Should he be flagged with failure to monitor? 

And what of Auburn?  Four players commit armed robbery? Another has a bar fight?  If the NCAA can act on the Sandusky matter, it certainly can reach out to issue an opinion here. 

Bad mojo for the NCAA to become involved. 

Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: The Six on July 16, 2012, 09:06:45 AM
Bad mojo for the NCAA to become involved.

Agreed. The knee-jerk reaction from the media is typical. Bobby Knight said it best when he compared that "profession" to prostitution.

Penn State has inherited a big golden post bed but when they pulled back the sheets to climb in they see that JoePa and previous company did indeed take a big :shit: in it and just hoped it would go away. The new regime is left holding that bag and it'll take several years to overcome the bad press. But never discount what winning a lot of games fast can do.
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: Pell City Tiger on July 16, 2012, 08:55:41 PM
They should be made to host the Big Brothers national convention for the next 10 years or so.
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: The Prowler on July 16, 2012, 11:04:58 PM
So, think Coach Roof is enjoying his new job? He's probably thinking he should've stayed down in Central or South Florida.
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: Saniflush on July 17, 2012, 08:02:48 AM
So, think Coach Roof is enjoying his new job? He's probably thinking he should've stayed down in Central or South Florida.

If there was any place in the country where you could have a really shitty defense and get by with it for the next couple of years it will be there.
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: wesfau2 on July 17, 2012, 10:03:18 AM
Emmert sounds serious:

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8171574/jerry-sandusky-scandal-ncaa-president-mark-emmert-signals-heavy-sanctions-penn-state

"I've never seen anything as egregious as this in terms of just overall conduct and behavior inside a university and hope never to see it again," Emmert said during the interview. "What the appropriate penalties are, if there are determinations of violations, we'll have to decide.

"We'll hold in abeyance all of those decisions until we've actually decided what we want to do with the actual charges should there be any. And I don't want to take anything off the table."
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: GH2001 on July 17, 2012, 10:40:48 AM
This is where I lean. The NCAA already thinks that they are the end all to be all. Do we really need to give them the power to venture into these waters. Many of you are so upset that you are willing to allow this to happen to get to what you perceive as justice. Don't fall into the "well its for the kids" mindset. When we start doing that, we start compromising the rights. This will work itself out in court. If any actions need to be taken against PSU, it should come from an education standpoint, not an athletic one. This is not within the NCAA's sphere. So lets not allow them to enter it.

Except this happened on the Athletic Dept's watch. That gives them a vested interest. I don't like the NCAA either but there was lack of Institutional Control here. The football program was a device and this guy was a coach and member of the athletic dept. They are interconnected at this point and I do think the NCAA has a say.
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: Tiger Wench on July 17, 2012, 11:33:02 AM
Except this happened on the Athletic Dept's watch. That gives them a vested interest. I don't like the NCAA either but there was lack of Institutional Control here. The football program was a device and this guy was a coach and member of the athletic dept. They are interconnected at this point and I do think the NCAA has a say.

But this was a criminal action - CCTAU is right.  This is for the courts to manage.  Penn State is a state agency - just because it is a college makes no difference.  If this coverup had happened at the Department of Public Works, the NCAA would not be involved.  If this had been a pedophile in the Penn State Communications Department, the NCAA would not be involved.  Just because it was the Athletic Department matters not.  No recruiting was affected, no illegal benefits were received by players, etc.  The NCAA needs to stay the hell out of this mess.
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: Godfather on July 17, 2012, 11:45:33 AM
But this was a criminal action - CCTAU is right.  This is for the courts to manage.  Penn State is a state agency - just because it is a college makes no difference.  If this coverup had happened at the Department of Public Works, the NCAA would not be involved.  If this had been a pedophile in the Penn State Communications Department, the NCAA would not be involved.  Just because it was the Athletic Department matters not.  No recruiting was affected, no illegal benefits were received by players, etc.  The NCAA needs to stay the hell out of this mess.
Agree
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: wesfau2 on July 17, 2012, 12:11:24 PM
.  No recruiting was affected, no illegal benefits were received by players, etc.  The NCAA needs to stay the hell out of this mess.

You can make the argument that recruiting, if not bolstered, was at least allowed to proceed at the status quo due to the coverup.  The recruits might have been much less likely to come play for PSU in the wake of Sandusky's ouster (with full disclosure) in 1998.  The HC, AD and President of the University conspired to conceal the news to preserve the football machine at PSU.

That's a competitive advantage of sorts.
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: Godfather on July 17, 2012, 12:43:45 PM
You can make the argument that recruiting, if not bolstered, was at least allowed to proceed at the status quo due to the coverup.  The recruits might have been much less likely to come play for PSU in the wake of Sandusky's ouster (with full disclosure) in 1998.  The HC, AD and President of the University conspired to conceal the news to preserve the football machine at PSU.

That's a competitive advantage of sorts.

(http://thelosangelesbeat.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/straws.jpg)
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: Saniflush on July 17, 2012, 12:57:18 PM
(http://thelosangelesbeat.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/straws.jpg)


You got some coke?
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: GH2001 on July 17, 2012, 02:20:51 PM
You can make the argument that recruiting, if not bolstered, was at least allowed to proceed at the status quo due to the coverup.  The recruits might have been much less likely to come play for PSU in the wake of Sandusky's ouster (with full disclosure) in 1998.  The HC, AD and President of the University conspired to conceal the news to preserve the football machine at PSU.

That's a competitive advantage of sorts.

Yep. The Freeh report explicitly stated that they covered it up for this very reason. They didn't want the PR and bad press because it would make the program look bad.

Lack of Institutional Control - the NCAA can hand down penalty with this as a reason if it's related to the Athletic Dept.
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: JR4AU on July 17, 2012, 04:28:21 PM
Scarbinsky disagrees and his argument is compelling if emotionally charged. 

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2012/07/penn_states_football_problem_d.html#incart_river_default

All Bama fans want Paterno destroyed and disgraced.  Then they'll turn their venom on Bobby. The goal is to shove Bryant's moldy carcass back to the top.

If they get involved here, it opens the door to get involved every time a player or coach gets arrested for anything.  Just like the Auburn football players getting shot is not about football just because they played football, the PSU scandal isn't about football either. 
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: wesfau2 on July 17, 2012, 04:34:09 PM
If they get involved here, it opens the door to get involved every time a player or coach gets arrested for anything.  Just like the Auburn football players getting shot is not about football just because they played football, the PSU scandal isn't about football either.

I agree that isolated incidents of player misconduct (or even a rash of arrests) should not be the province of the NCAA.

But to ignore the role that the President, Vice-President, AD and HC played in this situation is to be willfully blind.  Their cover-up was tied directly to the football program and the consequences of exposing Sandusky.
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: Tiger Wench on July 17, 2012, 04:40:09 PM
I agree that isolated incidents of player misconduct (or even a rash of arrests) should not be the province of the NCAA.

But to ignore the role that the President, Vice-President, AD and HC played in this situation is to be willfully blind.  Their cover-up was tied directly to the football program and the consequences of exposing Sandusky.

Then they should be punished by their employer - the Governor/the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, and by the State Attorney General's office.  Again, had this happened in the PSU Education Department, where, let's say, a 35 year tenured prof was molesting kids in the on campus day care, they probably would have covered it up then too.   It was as much about protecting Penn State in general as it was about protecting the football program.  The NCAA has no business getting involved in a criminal matter.  NONE.  And if I were the Attorney General of PA?  I would tell them to back the fuck off and not interfere with my investigation.
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: wesfau2 on July 17, 2012, 04:48:22 PM
Then they should be punished by their employer - the Governor/the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, and by the State Attorney General's office.  Again, had this happened in the PSU Education Department, where, let's say, a 35 year tenured prof was molesting kids in the on campus day care, they probably would have covered it up then too.   It was as much about protecting Penn State in general as it was about protecting the football program.  The NCAA has no business getting involved in a criminal matter.  NONE.  And if I were the Attorney General of PA?  I would tell them to back the fuck off and not interfere with my investigation.

I'm not necessarily advocating for NCAA involvement, but I do take issue with the oft-repeated take that this "isn't a football issue."
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: Townhallsavoy on July 17, 2012, 04:54:04 PM
I'm not necessarily advocating for NCAA involvement, but I do take issue with the oft-repeated take that this "isn't a football issue."

Agreed.

This is most definitely a football issue.  The moment people began protecting Sandusky in order to protect the football program, it became an NCAA issue.  Whether or not that should happen now or later is a different conversation. 
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: Godfather on July 17, 2012, 04:56:15 PM
I'm not necessarily advocating for NCAA involvement, but I do take issue with the oft-repeated take that this "isn't a football issue."
Its a football issue, I agree, but more than that as well.  Again I am back and forth, because this hurts a bunch of people who weren't involved.  What about staff that work in the athletic department, they are out of work because of it.  I don't know what you do.
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: JR4AU on July 17, 2012, 05:02:39 PM
I agree that isolated incidents of player misconduct (or even a rash of arrests) should not be the province of the NCAA.

But to ignore the role that the President, Vice-President, AD and HC played in this situation is to be willfully blind.  Their cover-up was tied directly to the football program and the consequences of exposing Sandusky.

A somewhat compelling argument, but I counter with the old "slippery slope" rebuttal.  The NCAA has never gotten involved in illegal activity not directly tied to athletics.  The argument that they covered it up to protect the program, isn't the same as say, gambling on PSU games.  It was in and around the football program, but it's not, IMHO, "football related".  Is it institutionally related?  Yes, but would the NCAA get involved if this had been a physics prof that got caught doing a kid in that athletic facilities? 

I don't feel strongly enough to argue it over and over, that's just my opinion.   I could be persuaded to see it your way, but as of yet, the argument falls short for me.
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: GH2001 on July 17, 2012, 05:03:03 PM
Then they should be punished by their employer - the Governor/the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, and by the State Attorney General's office.  Again, had this happened in the PSU Education Department, where, let's say, a 35 year tenured prof was molesting kids in the on campus day care, they probably would have covered it up then too.   It was as much about protecting Penn State in general as it was about protecting the football program.  The NCAA has no business getting involved in a criminal matter.  NONE.  And if I were the Attorney General of PA?  I would tell them to back the fuck off and not interfere with my investigation.

Wes is right, and they aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. This is both a Criminal AND NCAA matter.

If I work for a bank and do something criminal relating to my work (ie - embezzling), my employer and their governing body (Federal Reserve and FDIC) and the police are all involved for different reasons. I don't want to let Penn State off the hook with the NCAA simply because I don't like the NCAA or because I don't want the Bahr elevated above Joe Pa.

If an NCAA violation has occured, they will get in trouble. If one hasn't then they won't. I think it at least needs to be looked at and everything on the table.
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: Townhallsavoy on July 17, 2012, 05:05:51 PM
Its a football issue, I agree, but more than that as well.  Again I am back and forth, because this hurts a bunch of people who weren't involved.  What about staff that work in the athletic department, they are out of work because of it.  I don't know what you do.

I don't think this is like a recruiting scandal.  Players, coaches, and fans shouldn't be hurt because of the actions of others.  That's usually how the NCAA punishes programs.

I do, however, think Penn State needs a break.  There is absolutely no coming back from this and to be honest, it's fucking disgusting to think about.  Even as a non-Penn State fan, I don't want to watch their games because I know the thoughts of old men raping little boys is going to come up in conversation.  It's always going to be a black cloud hanging over Beaver Stadium.

The NCAA should look at everyone involved and get rid of them.  Anyone remotely associated with the case needs to go or be transferred.  The players should be granted a full release to another school or remain and retain their scholarship and earn their degree. 

Give the program a few years to let this settle and bring them back. 
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: Kaos on July 17, 2012, 06:31:10 PM
I don't think this is like a recruiting scandal.  Players, coaches, and fans shouldn't be hurt because of the actions of others.  That's usually how the NCAA punishes programs.

I do, however, think Penn State needs a break.  There is absolutely no coming back from this and to be honest, it's fucking disgusting to think about.  Even as a non-Penn State fan, I don't want to watch their games because I know the thoughts of old men raping little boys is going to come up in conversation.  It's always going to be a black cloud hanging over Beaver Stadium.

The NCAA should look at everyone involved and get rid of them.  Anyone remotely associated with the case needs to go or be transferred.  The players should be granted a full release to another school or remain and retain their scholarship and earn their degree. 

Give the program a few years to let this settle and bring them back.

SMU wants a definition of "a few years"
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: Townhallsavoy on July 17, 2012, 06:52:20 PM
SMU wants a definition of "a few years"

No idea.  But I do think this should be less punishment and more of a restructuring and healing process for the fans and players not associated with the scandal. 
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: JR4AU on July 17, 2012, 08:25:09 PM
Wes is right, and they aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. This is both a Criminal AND NCAA matter.

If I work for a bank and do something criminal relating to my work (ie - embezzling), my employer and their governing body (Federal Reserve and FDIC) and the police are all involved for different reasons. I don't want to let Penn State off the hook with the NCAA simply because I don't like the NCAA or because I don't want the Bahr elevated above Joe Pa.

If an NCAA violation has occured, they will get in trouble. If one hasn't then they won't. I think it at least needs to be looked at and everything on the table.

I will be swayed that it's an NCAA matter when someone can show me the NCAA bylaws that were violated.  I've done some reading on this a while back, and I can't find any.  "Lack of Institutional Control" is not a catch all charge.  It's charged when there's a systematic, long standing, violation of multiple NCAA Bylaws.  Last I checked, the NCAA is not in the business of punishing sex offenders.  I don't think they have any rules about that.  I can't imagine that when any NCAA bylaw was written, that anything like this situation was contemplated.  Someone once cited some bylaw that was tantamount to "conduct unbecoming" or something like that.  Ok, that's one rule IF the facts here apply to the way it's written and what conduct in contemplates.   

The trial is over.  This came to light many months ago.  What has the NCAA done, other than, for the sake of looking like they care, claim they would "look in to it"?  He was found guilty.  The truth all came out.  Where's the PLOI?  If I'm a betting man, and I am at times, I'd probably take action that it will never come to pass that the NCAA levies sanctions due to this, and if it were the death penalty, I'd pay double the bet.   The public, alumni, and recruits will levy their own sanctions on PSU.  They will be irrelevant for years.

Again though, the arguments for NCAA involvement are compelling, save one tiny item.  What NCAA Bylaws were violated?  Show me that, and don't try to twist and stretch to get there, and I'll be sold that it's an NCAA matter. 

Me hedging my bets...the NCAA could just make some fucking shit up and raze State College PA.  They should have all the equipment needed and it should be brand new and unused as they stocked up to do to AU in 2010, and all hopes were lost. 
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: JR4AU on July 17, 2012, 08:26:01 PM
No idea.  But I do think this should be less punishment and more of a restructuring and healing process for the fans and players not associated with the scandal.

Is anybody with any culpability in the whole mess still at PSU in any capacity?
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: Townhallsavoy on July 17, 2012, 09:16:43 PM
Is anybody with any culpability in the whole mess still at PSU in any capacity?

(http://thewifehatessports.com/wp-content/gallery/college-football/penn-state-nittany-lion-mascot.jpg)
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: Godfather on July 18, 2012, 09:42:21 AM
(http://thewifehatessports.com/wp-content/gallery/college-football/penn-state-nittany-lion-mascot.jpg)
The mascot was involved...DEATH PENALTY!
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: WDE_10 on July 18, 2012, 11:24:17 AM
How refreshing would it be if the powers that be at Penn State stepped up, said "You know what?  We all stepped in it big time here.  Let's find a way to recover some of our dignity." 

They then proceed to self-impose panalties on themselves, up to and including bowl and championship bans for an extended period of time.  The program is not shut down and it continues to create revenue, which is then used to compensate victims and settle lawsuits.  No new facilities, coaches are severely restricted on recruiting and they make no "investment" on improving their abaility to compete on the field.  This is in place for ohhh, six years or so.  Once that period is over, they can start thinking about being a college football contender. 

Just an idea and of course the devil is in the details...
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: AUChizad on July 18, 2012, 11:41:32 AM
How refreshing would it be if the powers that be at Penn State stepped up, said "You know what?  We all stepped in it big time here.  Let's find a way to recover some of our dignity." 

They then proceed to self-impose panalties on themselves, up to and including bowl and championship bans for an extended period of time.  The program is not shut down and it continues to create revenue, which is then used to compensate victims and settle lawsuits.  No new facilities, coaches are severely restricted on recruiting and they make no "investment" on improving their abaility to compete on the field.  This is in place for ohhh, six years or so.  Once that period is over, they can start thinking about being a college football contender. 

Just an idea and of course the devil is in the details...
I can pretty much guarantee that they are going to be scraping the bottom of the barrel with recruits anyway. Your scholarship list would have to be pretty low to sign up to be associated with that program after all of this.
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: WDE_10 on July 18, 2012, 11:49:09 AM
I can pretty much guarantee that they are going to be scraping the bottom of the barrel with recruits anyway. Your scholarship list would have to be pretty low to sign up to be associated with that program after all of this.

All the more reason they should do something that at least makes it appear they care.  They are going to struggle anyway, why not slap some self-imposed stuff on themselves and make it a little worse, but in the long run, does good from the PR side? 
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: Kaos on July 18, 2012, 12:24:41 PM
I can pretty much guarantee that they are going to be scraping the bottom of the barrel with recruits anyway. Your scholarship list would have to be pretty low to sign up to be associated with that program after all of this.

You serious Clark?

(http://images.www.news-record.com/files/imagecache/nrcom_article_image_landscape/Images/Ted_Roof.jpeg)
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: Godfather on July 18, 2012, 12:26:19 PM
You serious Clark?

(http://images.www.news-record.com/files/imagecache/nrcom_article_image_landscape/Images/Ted_Roof.jpeg)

 :ripted:
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: WDE_10 on July 18, 2012, 12:31:06 PM
(http://thewifehatessports.com/wp-content/gallery/college-football/penn-state-nittany-lion-mascot.jpg)

Is it just me or does this outfit look like something that a coked up mom designed and sewed for her kid after a particularly rough work night at Sammy's?

This abomination on the sidelines for the next ten years is punishment enough. 

Also, does Ted Roof always look like he is smelling his own farts?
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: Godfather on July 18, 2012, 12:34:32 PM
Is it just me or does this outfit look like something that a coked up mom designed and sewed for her kid after a particularly rough work night at Sammy's?

This abomination on the sidelines for the next ten years is punishment enough. 

Also, does Ted Roof always look like he is smelling his own farts?
I looks like the damn pedo bear.
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: WDE_10 on July 18, 2012, 12:40:58 PM
I looks like the damn pedo bear.

No...

You looks like a cross between Franklin from Family Guy and Hello Kitty.
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: dallaswareagle on July 18, 2012, 01:05:58 PM
Is it just me or does this outfit look like something that a coked up mom designed and sewed for her kid after a particularly rough work night at Sammy's?

This abomination on the sidelines for the next ten years is punishment enough. 

Also, does Ted Roof always look like he is smelling his own farts?

He prolly could not stop them either. :facepalm:
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: GH2001 on July 18, 2012, 01:42:07 PM
up to and including bowl and championship bans for an extended period of time. 

This would do nothing. Because these things were not going to be a factor for a while anyway.
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: War Eagle!!! on July 18, 2012, 01:46:46 PM
:ripted:

 :stache:
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: WDE_10 on July 18, 2012, 01:48:44 PM
This would do nothing. Because these things were not going to be a factor for a while anyway.
You think Penn State would not make a bowl in the next 6 years?

A bowl game, something that only requires a .500 record?

Something Vandy went to last year?



Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: GH2001 on July 18, 2012, 01:51:38 PM
You think Penn State would not make a bowl in the next 6 years?

A bowl game, something that only requires a .500 record?

Something Vandy went to last year?

Ehhh, probably a low level bowl. I was moreless just attempting to poke fun at how irrelevant they have become anyway.
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: Saniflush on July 18, 2012, 01:55:11 PM
Ehhh, probably a low level bowl. I was moreless just attempting to poke fun at how irrelevant they have become anyway.


Well that's just a french benefit.
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: GH2001 on July 18, 2012, 01:58:50 PM

Well that's just a french benefit.

On a seperate topic, your avatars keep getting better.
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: Saniflush on July 18, 2012, 02:01:58 PM
On a seperate topic, your avatars keep getting better.


Well, cleanliness is next to Godliness.
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: AUChizad on July 18, 2012, 02:36:54 PM
I looks like the damn pedo bear.
(http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/17t7ur2g6afl1jpg/original.jpg)
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: RWS on July 18, 2012, 03:57:10 PM
The NCAA really needs to mind it's own business in this case. Just because the crimes were committed by a coach, and happened on school property doesn't make it their business. Even if there was a coverup by administration and other coaches. Now, if this were about improper benefits or something that the NCAA bylaws cover, and there was a massive coverup for years, then by all means. But this is a criminal investigation that just so happens to involve coaches and the administration. The NCAA can't just make up a bylaw out of the blue and retroactively apply it to a situation that happened before the bylaw existed.

As JR hinted to, the whole "lack of institutional control" is a phrase fans love to throw around as if it is just a generic catchall, but it isn't. There is a specific definition for it, and this shit doesn't meet the criteria. In general:

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/NCAA/Enforcement/Process/Charging
Quote
A lack of institutional control is found when the Committee on Infractions determines that major violations occurred and the institution failed to display:
•Adequate compliance measures.
•Appropriate education on those compliance measures.
•Sufficient monitoring to ensure the compliance measures are followed.
•Swift action upon learning of a violation.

If PSU actually committed an NCAA violation, then sure, LOIC may apply. The NCAA bylaws just don't contain any sort of language to cover this.
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: wesfau2 on July 20, 2012, 01:02:15 PM
The statue is coming down.

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/07/20/kim-jones-penn-state-to-remove-paterno-statue-this-weekend/
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: wesfau2 on July 22, 2012, 10:13:22 AM
Boom.  PSU is proper fucked:

CBS News has learned that the NCAA will announce what a high-ranking association source called "unprecedented" penalties against both the Penn State University football team and the school.

"I've never seen anything like it," the source told correspondent Armen Keteyian.

NCAA President Mark Emmert will make the announcement Monday morning at 9 a.m. at the organization's headquarters in Indianapolis.


http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-400_162-57477382/ncaa-source-unprecedented-penalties-against-penn-state/
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: Pell City Tiger on July 22, 2012, 12:14:54 PM
Will Bobby Bowden become the new NCAA wins leader? Matt Hayes seems to think that the NCAA will accept PSU's answers to 4 questions that were submitted recently.

It should make for an interesting Monday.
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: Townhallsavoy on July 22, 2012, 12:45:37 PM
I wonder if the NCAA is trying to distance themselves from Penn State in order to avoid lawsuits. 
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: JR4AU on July 22, 2012, 12:49:58 PM
Boom.  PSU is proper fucked:

CBS News has learned that the NCAA will announce what a high-ranking association source called "unprecedented" penalties against both the Penn State University football team and the school.

"I've never seen anything like it," the source told correspondent Armen Keteyian.

NCAA President Mark Emmert will make the announcement Monday morning at 9 a.m. at the organization's headquarters in Indianapolis.


http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-400_162-57477382/ncaa-source-unprecedented-penalties-against-penn-state/

Will be very interested to see what they've cooked up.
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: Pell City Tiger on July 22, 2012, 01:10:54 PM
This link should provide some entertainment tomorrow.

http://bwi.rivals.com/forum.asp?sid=890&fid=36&style=2
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: Townhallsavoy on July 22, 2012, 01:21:11 PM
http://www.grandexperiment.org/

 :haha:
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: Kaos on July 23, 2012, 02:43:25 AM
Say....

How come Danny Sheridan didn't know about all this before it happened? 
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: RWS on July 23, 2012, 05:14:58 AM
I'm still wondering which NCAA bylaw that Penn State violated. It should be interesting to see what they try to squeeze this in under.
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: Saniflush on July 23, 2012, 07:20:35 AM
Say....

How come Danny Sheridan didn't know about all this before it happened?


Cause this is only dealing with the sack that a man has.   Not a bag.
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: GH2001 on July 23, 2012, 09:08:51 AM
I'm still wondering which NCAA bylaw that Penn State violated. It should be interesting to see what they try to squeeze this in under.

Oh I don't know....having no control over their athletic dept.
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: JR4AU on July 23, 2012, 11:10:05 AM
Oh I don't know....having no control over their athletic dept.

That rule applies with regard to compliance issues, non of which were violated.  Deserving though they are, and as much as many will applaud this, this sets a bad precedent for the future of the NCAA.  Funny thing is, the biggest haters of the NCAA are the ones applauding this most.  None of the current players, alumni, or fans deserved this.
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: noxin on July 23, 2012, 11:49:46 AM
PSU has been setting up their appeal on the grounds of ineffective defense.


(http://media.centredaily.com/smedia/2012/04/18/22/19/lhFl1.AuSt.42.jpg)
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: wesfau2 on July 23, 2012, 11:58:26 AM
PSU has been setting up their appeal on the grounds of ineffective defense.


(http://media.centredaily.com/smedia/2012/04/18/22/19/lhFl1.AuSt.42.jpg)

Gold.
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: Saniflush on July 23, 2012, 12:44:50 PM
PSU has been setting up their appeal on the grounds of ineffective defense.


(http://media.centredaily.com/smedia/2012/04/18/22/19/lhFl1.AuSt.42.jpg)


I am wondering now if the hiring of Roof was some sort of preemptive self imposed penalty.
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: Snaggletiger on July 23, 2012, 12:57:39 PM

I am wondering now if the hiring of Roof was some sort of preemptive self imposed penalty.

From way downtown....BANG!
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: GH2001 on July 23, 2012, 01:52:41 PM
That rule applies with regard to compliance issues, non of which were violated.  Deserving though they are, and as much as many will applaud this, this sets a bad precedent for the future of the NCAA.  Funny thing is, the biggest haters of the NCAA are the ones applauding this most.  None of the current players, alumni, or fans deserved this.

I find it funny that some also bitch more about the NCAA being the bad guy than Penn State. Root cause folks. The jerkoffs reside in Happy Valley. They caused this whole escapade by hiding a pervert.
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: GH2001 on July 23, 2012, 01:53:03 PM

I am wondering now if the hiring of Roof was some sort of preemptive self imposed penalty.

Post of the week.
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: JR4AU on July 23, 2012, 01:57:36 PM
I find it funny that some also bitch more about the NCAA being the bad guy than Penn State. Root cause folks. The jerkoffs reside in Happy Valley. They caused this whole escapade by hiding a pervert.

Not the bad guy.  They exceeded their authority.  Pure and simple.  It simply wasn't an NCAA issue.  I don't feel a bit sorry for them as a program.  PSU deserves whatever comes there way, but fact is, the NCAA only had authority here because PSU consented to it.
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: GH2001 on July 23, 2012, 02:09:26 PM
Not the bad guy.  They exceeded their authority.  Pure and simple.  It simply wasn't an NCAA issue.  I don't feel a bit sorry for them as a program.  PSU deserves whatever comes there way, but fact is, the NCAA only had authority here because PSU consented to it.

It just seems a lot of folks care MORE about the NCAA and their authority than the crime itself. The NCAA wouldn't even be in this situation if the fucker had not molested young children and the other fucksticks had not covered it up. Fuck PSU and Joe Pa. They deserve anything they get here, NCAA overreaching or not. I could careless. If the NCAA only did it with consent, then we have nothing to worry about on precedent.
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: JR4AU on July 23, 2012, 02:23:11 PM
It just seems a lot of folks care MORE about the NCAA and their authority than the crime itself. The NCAA wouldn't even be in this situation if the fucker had not molested young children and the other fucksticks had not covered it up. Fuck PSU and Joe Pa. They deserve anything they get here, NCAA overreaching or not. I could careless. If the NCAA only did it with consent, then we have nothing to worry about on precedent.

If Mark Emmert had any nuts he'd have simply said "this is a civil and criminal matter outside the scope and authority of the NCAA's bylaws".   Instead he had to "save face" and run ask PSU "how much punishment will you consent to?"  You could only care less because of the situation.  I still think it sets a bad precedent.  I think it, like the Cam Newton situation, will cause Emmert to get the NCAA membership grant him new powers to act with authority in the future, and it's a slippery slope IMHO.  I mean, if the FDA came in and levied sanctions here, nobody would argue that PSU doens't deserve it, but what's their jurisdiction?   Weiners and buns were involved?
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: RWS on July 23, 2012, 02:32:37 PM
It just seems a lot of folks care MORE about the NCAA and their authority than the crime itself. The NCAA wouldn't even be in this situation if the fucker had not molested young children and the other fucksticks had not covered it up. Fuck PSU and Joe Pa. They deserve anything they get here, NCAA overreaching or not. I could careless. If the NCAA only did it with consent, then we have nothing to worry about on precedent.
I would have been fine with the NCAA shutting them down completely, if it was within their authority. Nobody is saying that PSU doesn't deserve what it got. I just don't agree with how the NCAA did it. And if you think that this isn't precedent, I think you may be surprised at some point down the road. Using the NCAA's methodology, this is precedent. Think about it for a second. PSU was between a rock and a hard place. If they fight this, then that is going to be even more bad PR for them. But they would eventually win the fight, because there is no bylaw that they violated.

But at what cost would they win, really? If they had to deal with the NCAA again on an actual violation, they would be fucked. The NCAA has now set a precedent for themselves that basically says even if you haven't committed a violation technically, we can still try to strongarm you into something. They will keep that shit in their back pocket. Just think about that when something comes up that should probably be a violation, but the NCAA just didn't think about such an odd scenario happening and the bylaws don't cover that.
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: The Six on July 23, 2012, 02:35:54 PM
Sooooooo...can the NCAA punish Alabama because of what Harvey Updyke did to Auburn?
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: Godfather on July 23, 2012, 02:36:42 PM
(http://media.centredaily.com/smedia/2012/04/18/22/19/lhFl1.AuSt.42.jpg)
He must have farted again.
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: GH2001 on July 23, 2012, 03:17:36 PM
I would have been fine with the NCAA shutting them down completely, if it was within their authority. Nobody is saying that PSU doesn't deserve what it got. I just don't agree with how the NCAA did it. And if you think that this isn't precedent, I think you may be surprised at some point down the road. Using the NCAA's methodology, this is precedent. Think about it for a second. PSU was between a rock and a hard place. If they fight this, then that is going to be even more bad PR for them. But they would eventually win the fight, because there is no bylaw that they violated.

But at what cost would they win, really? If they had to deal with the NCAA again on an actual violation, they would be fucked. The NCAA has now set a precedent for themselves that basically says even if you haven't committed a violation technically, we can still try to strongarm you into something. They will keep that shit in their back pocket. Just think about that when something comes up that should probably be a violation, but the NCAA just didn't think about such an odd scenario happening and the bylaws don't cover that.

Good to see your goat fucking ass cares more about the Ennn-Seee-Double-AYYYY than the victims or crime itself. But then again, that makes perfect sense. The NCAA is a red herring at this point.
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: RWS on July 23, 2012, 03:37:52 PM
Good to see your goat fucking ass cares more about the Ennn-Seee-Double-AYYYY than the victims or crime itself. But then again, that makes perfect sense. The NCAA is a red herring at this point.
Nobody said that the victims or the crime itself didn't matter. Stop trying to dramatize it. As I said before, I would have been perfectly fine with the death penalty if the NCAA was able to use it. What you're not getting is that nobody is sitting here saying "Oh, poor pitiful PSU". I don't feel sorry for them. All I'm saying is that this precedent will fuck somebody down the road. I'm saying that it opens a can of worms that allows the NCAA to (at the very least) attempt to strongarm an institution into accepting a penalty, even though no violation of NCAA bylaws even occurred.

And if you think that just because I'm an Alabama fan that I automatically hate the NCAA, then you would be wrong. You can check my history and see that I have been generally supportive of the NCAA, even when they have levied sanctions against Alabama. I have never thought they did something they shouldn't have until now. Even though I feel that PSU should get any kind of punishment possible to handicap the program, I also feel that it should be done within the regulations of the NCAA. It has nothing to do with PSU specifically, it is more so to do with the precedent that it sets for future cases.
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: GH2001 on July 23, 2012, 03:50:15 PM
Nobody said that the victims or the crime itself didn't matter. Stop trying to dramatize it. As I said before, I would have been perfectly fine with the death penalty if the NCAA was able to use it. What you're not getting is that nobody is sitting here saying "Oh, poor pitiful PSU". I don't feel sorry for them. All I'm saying is that this precedent will fuck somebody down the road. I'm saying that it opens a can of worms that allows the NCAA to (at the very least) attempt to strongarm an institution into accepting a penalty, even though no violation of NCAA bylaws even occurred.

And if you think that just because I'm an Alabama fan that I automatically hate the NCAA, then you would be wrong. You can check my history and see that I have been generally supportive of the NCAA, even when they have levied sanctions against Alabama. I have never thought they did something they shouldn't have until now. Even though I feel that PSU should get any kind of punishment possible to handicap the program, I also feel that it should be done within the regulations of the NCAA. It has nothing to do with PSU specifically, it is more so to do with the precedent that it sets for future cases.

I am not even saying the NCAA was in the right. I am saying you guys are getting yourselves worked up more in a frenzy over the NCAA than the child rapist.
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: Saniflush on July 23, 2012, 03:52:01 PM
I am not even saying the NCAA was in the right. I am saying you guys are getting yourselves worked up more in a frenzy over the NCAA than the child rapist.


Well maybe the obvious answer is that they are in favor of child rape?
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: Snaggletiger on July 23, 2012, 04:04:39 PM

Well maybe the obvious answer is that they are in favor of child rape?

Goat rape, sure.  But child rape? 
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: GH2001 on July 23, 2012, 04:35:21 PM
Goat rape, sure.  But child rape?

RWS doesn't rape the goats because they like it and are willing. In fact, they initiate it sometimes.

RWS on bottom in this one.....

(http://www.swiftriverphotos.com/album/animals/slides/AN0069%20goat%20love.jpg)
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: The Prowler on July 24, 2012, 12:26:18 AM
Nobody said that the victims or the crime itself didn't matter. Stop trying to dramatize it. As I said before, I would have been perfectly fine with the death penalty if the NCAA was able to use it. What you're not getting is that nobody is sitting here saying "Oh, poor pitiful PSU". I don't feel sorry for them. All I'm saying is that this precedent will fuck somebody down the road. I'm saying that it opens a can of worms that allows the NCAA to (at the very least) attempt to strongarm an institution into accepting a penalty, even though no violation of NCAA bylaws even occurred.

And if you think that just because I'm an Alabama fan that I automatically hate the NCAA, then you would be wrong. You can check my history and see that I have been generally supportive of the NCAA, even when they have levied sanctions against Alabama. I have never thought they did something they shouldn't have until now. Even though I feel that PSU should get any kind of punishment possible to handicap the program, I also feel that it should be done within the regulations of the NCAA. It has nothing to do with PSU specifically, it is more so to do with the precedent that it sets for future cases.
If uat is caught doing something this hideous, like PSU...Then, yes I expect the same Double Penetration that PSU just got nailed with. Same goes for Auburn.
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: GH2001 on July 24, 2012, 09:17:15 AM
If uat is caught doing something this hideous, like PSU...Then, yes I expect the same Double Penetration that PSU just got nailed with. Same goes for Auburn.

All this talk of double penetration is getting Vandy Vol all hot and bothered.
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: DnATL on July 24, 2012, 10:54:31 AM
All this talk of double penetration is getting Vandy Vol all hot and bothered.
Single penetration is double penetration for a dwarf
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: Saniflush on July 24, 2012, 01:16:42 PM
.

(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d58/saniflush/statepenn.jpg)
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: GH2001 on July 24, 2012, 01:34:43 PM
Single penetration is double penetration for a dwarf

You are selling him short (pun intended). He's a hobbit, which is much higher status in short people world than a normal dwarf.
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: dallaswareagle on July 24, 2012, 01:41:12 PM
.

(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d58/saniflush/statepenn.jpg)

I would rather take a shower at Penn State than be a bammer.
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: Pell City Tiger on July 24, 2012, 06:23:42 PM
I would rather take a shower at Penn State than be a bammer.
Having a pain in the ass beats being a pain in the ass.
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: RWS on July 25, 2012, 07:36:12 PM
Here is an example of the point I have been making:

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/8199905/penn-state-nittany-lions-rodney-erickson-said-school-faced-4-year-death-penalty
Quote
If Penn State had not accepted the package of NCAA sanctions announced Monday, the Nittany Lions faced a historic death penalty of four years, university president Rodney Erickson told "Outside the Lines" on Wednesday afternoon.

Erickson said if Penn State did not agree to the sanctions, a formal investigation would have begun and the university could have faced a multiyear death penalty, as well as "other sanctions," including a financial penalty far greater than $60 million.
Either take the deal, or the NCAA is going to start an investigation, turn the athletic department upside down, and find something that does violate the bylaws. I'm not saying PSU didn't get what they deserve, but the fact that the NCAA can apparently operate that way is scary.
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: GH2001 on July 25, 2012, 09:54:28 PM
Here is an example of the point I have been making:

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/8199905/penn-state-nittany-lions-rodney-erickson-said-school-faced-4-year-death-penaltyEither take the deal, or the NCAA is going to start an investigation, turn the athletic department upside down, and find something that does violate the bylaws. I'm not saying PSU didn't get what they deserve, but the fact that the NCAA can apparently operate that way is scary.

And you are obviously trying to outdo chadskins defending his saints for the "beat a dead horse award"
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: RWS on July 25, 2012, 10:58:17 PM
And you are obviously trying to outdo chadskins defending his saints for the "beat a dead horse award"
The difference is that the Saints got nailed for breaking a rule that actually exists. Again, it doesn't bother me at all that Penn State got hammered. They sure as fuck deserved it. I'm just concerned that apparently, now the NCAA can basically approach schools and tell them "Even though what happened might not be a violation, we don't like what you did, so you better agree to these penalties. Otherwise we are going to turn you upside down and see what shakes out. Then it will be way worse if we find the slightest bit of dirt on any kind of violation."

The point is, what else will they use this methodology on? I don't feel sorry for PSU at all. But the NCAA just created a precedent for themselves where they can penalize a team without them violating a bylaw, as long as they can intimidate the institution into accepting it.
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: The Prowler on July 26, 2012, 06:26:52 AM
The difference is that the Saints got nailed for breaking a rule that actually exists. Again, it doesn't bother me at all that Penn State got hammered. They sure as fuck deserved it. I'm just concerned that apparently, now the NCAA can basically approach schools and tell them "Even though what happened might not be a violation, we don't like what you did, so you better agree to these penalties. Otherwise we are going to turn you upside down and see what shakes out. Then it will be way worse if we find the slightest bit of dirt on any kind of violation."

The point is, what else will they use this methodology on? I don't feel sorry for PSU at all. But the NCAA just created a precedent for themselves where they can penalize a team without them violating a bylaw, as long as they can intimidate the institution into accepting it.
Penn State did violate NCAA bylaws...13 of them to be exact.

 http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/ncaa/20120723/21207235
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: Saniflush on July 26, 2012, 09:52:01 AM
Here is an example of the point I have been making:

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/8199905/penn-state-nittany-lions-rodney-erickson-said-school-faced-4-year-death-penaltyEither take the deal, or the NCAA is going to start an investigation, turn the athletic department upside down, and find something that does violate the bylaws. I'm not saying PSU didn't get what they deserve, but the fact that the NCAA can apparently operate that way is scary.


Where was all the outcry when the NCAA was tossing our athletic department around a couple of years ago?

Hell in retrospect I'm glad it happened to a degree.  Proved to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that we are doing things the right way, but at that point and time everyone was loving that the NCAA and the media was giving us the what for without any due process. 

Colleges had a chance to stand up against the NCAA a few years back and decided not to.  Now they are seeing the consequences of that inaction.
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: Snaggletiger on July 26, 2012, 10:04:39 AM

Where was all the outcry when the NCAA was tossing our athletic department around a couple of years ago?

Hell in retrospect I'm glad it happened to a degree.  Proved to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that we are doing things the right way, but at that point and time everyone was loving that the NCAA and the media was giving us the what for without any due process. 

Colleges had a chance to stand up against the NCAA a few years back and decided not to.  Now they are seeing the consequences of that inaction.

This man knows.  All it took was rumors, in-your-end-OH and message board fucks feeding crap to the NCAA and they come in and give the athletic department a colonoscopy.  With regard to the length of time it took, Jay Jacobs said very openly that when the NCAA comes to your house to investigate an issue, they don't just focus on that one thing.  They probe every aspect of your department.  They did...and didn't find so much as a jay-walking violation.  And that, after Auburn's compliance department, the SEC and the FBI had all done their thing and came up empty. 

And no, there was no outcry from anyone other than Gene Chizik himself, who knew they were barking up the wrong tree.
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: Godfather on July 26, 2012, 10:20:59 AM
Penn State did violate NCAA bylaws...13 of them to be exact.

 http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/ncaa/20120723/21207235
See I agree with the ethics and lack of institutional control violations (that makes sense).  They should have come out with this first though, now it kinda looks like they are trying to justify IMO.
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: RWS on July 26, 2012, 10:38:58 AM
See I agree with the ethics and lack of institutional control violations (that makes sense).  They should have come out with this first though, now it kinda looks like they are trying to justify IMO.
What gets me is the interpretation. That is where the NCAA becomes dangerous. When you read the language of the bylaw, it is obviously aimed to cover people like boosters, etc. Other statutes are specifically aimed towards improper recruitment, and ethics involving that. So, I'm curious now. Would they consider a coach going to a strip club unethical? Would they consider a coach cursing, or using a racial slur unethical? Is Arkansas going to get the death penalty because Petrino cheated on his wife, and he was covering that up for a while? That seems unethical to me.
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: AUTiger1 on July 26, 2012, 10:56:13 AM

Where was all the outcry when the NCAA was tossing our athletic department around a couple of years ago?

Hell in retrospect I'm glad it happened to a degree.  Proved to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that we are doing things the right way, but at that point and time everyone was loving that the NCAA and the media was giving us the what for without any due process. 

Colleges had a chance to stand up against the NCAA a few years back and decided not to.  Now they are seeing the consequences of that inaction.

 :kimclap:
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: GH2001 on July 26, 2012, 02:00:37 PM
What gets me is the interpretation. That is where the NCAA becomes dangerous. When you read the language of the bylaw, it is obviously aimed to cover people like boosters, etc. Other statutes are specifically aimed towards improper recruitment, and ethics involving that. So, I'm curious now. Would they consider a coach going to a strip club unethical? Would they consider a coach cursing, or using a racial slur unethical? Is Arkansas going to get the death penalty because Petrino cheated on his wife, and he was covering that up for a while? That seems unethical to me.

You are still doing it.

BTW, what crime (criminal offense) did Petrino commit just fucking that whore? Not one. Civil with his wife is another matter. Last time I checked child rape and concealing is very illegal and has huge ethics implications. Read the rules anyway you want to suit your case, but Sani is right. People had a chance to stand up to the NCAA when we were getting nailed to the wall for nothing, and the whole country let them get away with it because the country and your ilk wanted to see Auburn get punished so badly that you overlooked the NCAA's methods. Now, all of a sudden you give a shit.
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: Snaggletiger on July 26, 2012, 03:47:22 PM
More sanctions for Penn State.  Now the band is barred from playing music in A Minor
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: dallaswareagle on July 26, 2012, 03:58:50 PM
More sanctions for Penn State.  Now the band is barred from playing music in A Minor

This is becoming childs play.
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: GH2001 on July 26, 2012, 04:29:17 PM
More sanctions for Penn State.  Now the band is barred from playing music in A Minor

Just the flutes.

This one time....at band camp
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: Snaggletiger on July 26, 2012, 04:33:52 PM
You may hate Jerry Sandusky, but at least he drove slowly through school zones.
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: Snaggletiger on July 26, 2012, 04:50:33 PM
Sandusky claims he's really young at heart. He says sometimes he feels like a 60 yr old stuck in a 10 yr old's body.
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: dallaswareagle on July 26, 2012, 04:55:37 PM
You may hate Jerry Sandusky, but at least he drove slowly through school zones.

I guess his idea about push one through and mine are different.

(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa157/mrs_pring/GIFs/tumblr_lho6h3bDyl1qztkws.gif)
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: Pell City Tiger on July 26, 2012, 06:48:49 PM
More sanctions for Penn State.  Now the band is barred from playing music in A Minor
Heeeeey-oooooooo!

(That's an Ed McMahon impression for you ignert fuckers)
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: AU_Tiger_2000 on July 26, 2012, 10:18:56 PM
Heeeeey-oooooooo!

(That's an Ed McMahon impression for you ignert fudgeers)

You are correct sir!
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: Tiger Wench on July 27, 2012, 02:10:27 AM
I guess his idea about push one through and mine are different.

(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa157/mrs_pring/GIFs/tumblr_lho6h3bDyl1qztkws.gif)

I thought I was worldly enough for this joint, but I just cannot figure out what exactly they are doing...?
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: wesfau2 on July 29, 2012, 11:14:56 AM
I was reading some al.com articles to scratch my football itch (hey...any port in a storm, amirite?).

One article mentioned the PSU sanctions and made reference to Roof coaching there now (no news) and that Zac Etheridge is a GA there.  It might have been previously discussed here, but that came as news to me.

I wonder if Zac is stuck there for at least this year or if he could have Chizik (or, hell, even Tuberville) pull a string to get him a new gig this year.
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: Snaggletiger on July 31, 2012, 04:50:40 PM
Jerry Sandusky walks into an elementary school just as classes are let out for the day, when a teacher approaches him & asks, "so which child is yours?"

Sandusky replies: "I don't care, surprise me."
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: The Prowler on August 11, 2012, 07:07:54 PM
TPTB that knows about the wrong doings at Penn State accepted the penalties in hopes that the NCAA wouldn't dig around.  They didn't think about the FBI & U.S. Postal Investigators doing the digging.

Quote
A source tells Radaronline.com that investigators are looking into an allegation that Sandusky and “a prominent Penn State booster” were involved in “illegal behavior with young boys.”

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/fbi-u-s-postal-inspectors-probing-disgraced-penn-state-coach-jerry-sandusky-involved-a-pedophile-ring-involving-men-connected-university-report-article-1.1134125#ixzz23HP45GV9
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: Godfather on August 13, 2012, 10:06:30 AM
TPTB that knows about the wrong doings at Penn State accepted the penalties in hopes that the NCAA wouldn't dig around.  They didn't think about the FBI & U.S. Postal Investigators doing the digging.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/fbi-u-s-postal-inspectors-probing-disgraced-penn-state-coach-jerry-sandusky-involved-a-pedophile-ring-involving-men-connected-university-report-article-1.1134125#ixzz23HP45GV9

and the hits keep cumming
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: Godfather on August 14, 2012, 11:59:22 AM
Quote
Penn State receives accreditation warning

By RON TODT, AP
Tue Aug 14, 7:19 AM UTC

Penn State has been put on notice by an accrediting organization that says the university's status is "in jeopardy" based on recent developments in the Jerry Sandusky child sex abuse scandal.

The Middle States Commission on Higher Education, which accredits universities in the Mid-Atlantic region, cited information in the school's internal investigation led by former FBI director Louis Freeh and the severe penalties imposed by the NCAA over the school's handling of molestation allegations against the former assistant football coach, who was convicted in June of 45 child sexual abuse counts.

In an Aug. 8 notice, the commission said that Penn State remains accredited while "on warning" but it wants a monitoring report submitted by the end of next month detailing steps taken to ensure full compliance with governmental requirements, that the university's mission is being carried out, that the commission will be fully informed and that Penn State is complying with standards on leadership and governance as well as integrity.

The commission also wants the report to address the university's ability to bear financial obligations stemming from "the investigation and related settlements, etc." It said "a small team visit" will be made, a standard practice "to verify institutional status and progress."

Penn State officials on Monday expressed confidence that they would be able to address all concerns expressed by the commission.

University president Rodney Erickson said that the commission "wants us to document that steps we have already taken and are planning to take will ensure our full compliance with its requirements." He said he was also confident that officials would be able to "fully demonstrate our financial stability."

"This action has nothing to do with the quality of education our students receive," said Blannie Bowen, vice provost for academic affairs in a statement posted on the university's website. "Middle States is focusing on governance, integrity, and financial issues related to information in the Freeh report and other items related to our current situation."

Bowen said the body doesn't issue a warning unless it believes that an institution can make improvements and remain in compliance, and "this is certainly true for Penn State.

"We're confident that our monitoring report and the site visit will confirm this to the commission," Bowen said.

Copyright 2012 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

:ruhroh:
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: DnATL on August 14, 2012, 12:22:52 PM
They will will retain full accreditation by 'sacks
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: Kaos on August 15, 2012, 08:56:24 AM
They will will retain full accreditation by 'sacks

You don't get how this works. 

SACS is the "Southern Association". No jurisdiction at PSU.  Middle States is the equivalent of SACS for schools in that region.

Or did I miss a joke here?
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: GH2001 on August 15, 2012, 09:29:43 AM

Or did I miss a joke here?

You didn't just miss it. I felt the whiff.
Title: Re: What Should Happen At Penn State?
Post by: Godfather on August 15, 2012, 09:30:18 AM
Or did I miss a joke here?

I think he was trying to incorporate SAC's as in ball sacks of 10 year old boys.

It's ok it wasn't really funny