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Pat Dye Field => War Damn Eagle => Topic started by: Snaggletiger on October 10, 2011, 02:20:10 PM
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First and foremost, the coaches will play who they think gives them the best shot...so what I say below menas exactly squat. But just for kicks and giggles...let's discuss.
I started writing a bunch of crap about our QB situation, but then realized it's all been said 1000X. Bottom line, I don't see Trotter making us better. Can he improve? Probably, but not to the point of getting us back to that next level again. And the often used phrase of the back up being the most popular guy on the team...well, that theory took a swift cowboy boot to the jimmies Saturday night. So, do we continue with Trotter in the hopes that he starts getting it, and work Frazier in? Or do we roll with the new guy and work an offense around him he can handle?
First, I'm not a fan of "dumbing down" an offense unless you're asking the guys to be rocket surgeons with terminology only John Gruden could understand. But, I think you can run your entire set of running plays with Frazier while working in 5-6 pass plays that you beat into his head until he can do them in his sleep. Question, how many different pass plays did Utah State run against us? I saw the true freshman throw bubble screen and hit his big tight end about 75% of the time. And when it wasn't there, he took off or threw it away. Here we go. Play #1...Reed is option one with a quick slant. If the corner or LB (I'm making this shit up) are here..you hit Reed. If the corner is here...quickly go to option #2..Lutz on a turn around. Okay, let's run it 1200 times. Repitition = Recognition. Okay, play #2...play action to Dyer and find Blake 15 yards across the middle. If the safety is here....
You get the idea. IMO, as long as your running game is half way effective, you don't have to have trick plays or force your QB to go through a lot of progressions. You can run a variety of pass plays but keep Frazier's choices quick and simple. If you see A...go to B. Repitition, repitition, repitition. The kid has talent, he just needs reps. Probably far fetched but I don't have a ton of confidence in any of our remaining games with our current QB situation. As I said, the coaches know who can and can't. Thoughts?
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I would love to see Mosely get a shot. At least then we all know what the coaches' seem to know. Other than that, keep it the way it is and allow KF to get a few more short receptions. Why they gave him a green light to throw down field is beyond me. The first thing they did with Mosely was let him throw a short pass. Confidence booster (controversy creator). But to throw KF to the wolves would not be wise long term. You want to have his psyche saying that I can learn and get better, not "I let the team down".
And then again, maybe we need to stick with short crossing routes for all the QBs until they ALL get a little better. I feel like I'm watching 2008 all over again. RUN.RUN. BOMB. PUNT.
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My problem with Frazier's throws (Other than them being intercepted) was that I think they told him that was the play and he meant he was going to make the throws regardless. Both were passes that most high school guys could read but he got the ball, stared them down, wound up and threw it. It was like the safety went, "Oh I know he's not going to....holy shit, he did...thank you."
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My problem with Frazier's throws (Other than them being intercepted) was that I think they told him that was the play and he meant he was going to make the throws regardless. Both were passes that most high school guys could read but he got the ball, stared them down, wound up and threw it. It was like the safety went, "Oh I know he's not going to....holy shit, he did...thank you."
Frazier did stare the receiver down. However, he is 18 years old and the mistake is fixable. Barrett Trotter is a 4th year junior and stares down the receiver and holds on to the ball too long.
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Frazier did stare the receiver down. However, he is 18 years old and the mistake is fixable. Barrett Trotter is a 4th year junior and stares down the receiver and holds on to the ball too long.
Agreed.
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Frazier did stare the receiver down. However, he is 18 years old and the mistake is fixable. Barrett Trotter is a 4th year junior and stares down the receiver and holds on to the ball too long.
How can you be sure it's fixable when it's still not fixed with Trotter.
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How can you be sure it's fixable when it's still not fixed with Trotter.
The same reason Cam didn't do it.
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How can you be sure it's fixable when it's still not fixed with Trotter.
You can fix a flat tire, you can't fix full retard. That being said, I still think Trotter should start.
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The same reason Cam didn't do it.
Huh?
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Huh?
Cam had the same habit his first few games.
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Cam had the same habit his first few games.
Everyone keeps forgetting that. We stayed alive by Cam's feet the first part of the season. About the 5th or 6th game of the season, he started seeing the open guy earlier. That is when I felt we probably might be in for a treat.
The sad part is that everything I had seen from Trotter said that he could already see the open guys. Apparently not.
Something happened to him to make him totally gun shy. He does not have what it takes to stand int he pocket and take the hit while making the throw. That is a recipe for disaster. As a QB, you have to take the hits until the line gets settled in. Trotter is shitting bricks within 1.5 seconds of the snap. This is where I think Mosely might make a difference. If they wre that close, if he can stand in and take the hit, it might make a difference.
Besides, nobody wants to block for a puss.
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Cam had the same habit his first few games.
Cam and Todd proof that they can improve. Trotter proof, they can't all be fixed.
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Everyone keeps forgetting that. We stayed alive by Cam's feet the first part of the season. About the 5th or 6th game of the season, he started seeing the open guy earlier. That is when I felt we probably might be in for a treat.
The sad part is that everything I had seen from Trotter said that he could already see the open guys. Apparently not.
Something happened to him to make him totally gun shy. He does not have what it takes to stand int he pocket and take the hit while making the throw. That is a recipe for disaster. As a QB, you have to take the hits until the line gets settled in. Trotter is shitting bricks within 1.5 seconds of the snap. This is where I think Mosely might make a difference. If they wre that close, if he can stand in and take the hit, it might make a difference.
Besides, nobody wants to block for a puss.
Brandon Cox became the same way in 07. I remember watching the USF game and we were backed up to the 10. We had endzone seats with a perfect view of the this particular play. 3rd and 6, we snap the ball, they bring some fire. Our OL picked it up and we had a couple of guys open to make a catch. Cox actually ducked as he made the pass with no one around him. He was always a little gun shy after the pounding he took in the 06 LSU game. I wonder if Trotter feels the same?
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Cam and Todd proof that they can improve. Trotter proof, they can't all be fixed.
I don't think AWK, GH and myself are saying that it can be fixed in Trotter, but we are saying that with Fraizer it should be correctable since Malzahn fixed the same problem in Todd and Cam.
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Everyone keeps forgetting that. We stayed alive by Cam's feet the first part of the season. About the 5th or 6th game of the season, he started seeing the open guy earlier. That is when I felt we probably might be in for a treat.
The sad part is that everything I had seen from Trotter said that he could already see the open guys. Apparently not.
Something happened to him to make him totally gun shy. He does not have what it takes to stand int he pocket and take the hit while making the throw. That is a recipe for disaster. As a QB, you have to take the hits until the line gets settled in. Trotter is shitting bricks within 1.5 seconds of the snap. This is where I think Mosely might make a difference. If they wre that close, if he can stand in and take the hit, it might make a difference.
Besides, nobody wants to block for a puss.
I normally don't like replacing the starter, but in this case there's such a lack of production that I see nothing to lose by just seeing if Mosley might be one of those guys that suddenly elevates his play on Saturday when the bullets start flying. Worst case, he looks like shit and we go back to Trotter, who looks like shit.
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I don't think AWK, GH and myself are saying that it can be fixed in Trotter, but we are saying that with Fraizer it should be correctable since Malzahn fixed the same problem in Todd and Cam.
Look, he's been in this system for 2 seasons prior. I just don't think it's going to get fixed. Hey, I think Malzahn is a great coach, but he could coach me for 10 seasons, give me every offensive rep in practice, and he'd still not be able to make an SEC QB out of me. Hell, he couldn't make a HS QB out of me. Some guys just don't have what it takes. It appears to me Trotter just doesn't get it.
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Thinking about how they're going about it, what they're saying...
I don't care about what they said in the summer about a close race, it would appear to me that Mosley isn't even close to Trotter. I said when Mosley signed he'd never take a meaningful snap at Auburn as a QB. I think that's still the case. It's hard for me to believe they were that close, that Trotter sux this bad, and they won't give him a shot.
Either that, or they're trying to stick with Trotter, and find things he can execute, though frankly, I don't see what he can do that Malzahn does. They've already added more screens than you'd normally see. Malzahn has very little quick game/3 step drop passing, and it seems Trotter just doesn't get the play action stuff.
I bet (hope) when Pike comes in next season, you'll see him and Frazier in a battle for the job, and Trotter and Mosely riding the pine.
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Look, he's been in this system for 2 seasons prior. I just don't think it's going to get fixed. Hey, I think Malzahn is a great coach, but he could coach me for 10 seasons, give me every offensive rep in practice, and he'd still not be able to make an SEC QB out of me. Hell, he couldn't make a HS QB out of me. Some guys just don't have what it takes. It appears to me Trotter just doesn't get it.
Once again, I don't think we (or at least myslef) is saying that Trotter can be fixed. We are saying that Frazier is an 18 year old Freshman and it might can be fixed.
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Once again, I don't think we (or at least myslef) is saying that Trotter can be fixed. We are saying that Frazier is an 18 year old Freshman and it might can be fixed.
I think I misread you before. We agree.
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I think I misread you before. We agree.
I thought we did. :thumsup:
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The only logical explanation here is that Trotter has pics of Chizik and Saban in a midget orgy.
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Cam and Todd proof that they can improve. Trotter proof, they can't all be fixed.
I'm saying Cam, Campbell, Todd - whoever, were all fixed or improved.
Trotter has not been. I think he is the exception, not the rule.
I don't think Kiehl is in the same boat as Trotter. I think he is in the aforementioned category above. He is just young. Trotter just sucks donkey testes.
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I'm saying Cam, Campbell, Todd - whoever, were all fixed or improved.
Trotter has not been. I think he is the exception, not the rule.
I don't think Kiehl is in the same boat as Trotter. I think he is in the aforementioned category above. He is just young. Trotter just sucks donkey testes.
I think the difference with Cam is that Cam had talent there in the first place. Insane talent. It only had to be refined a little. I guess Todd was "fixed" about as much as he could be, but at this point, I could argue that he has better skills than Trotter in the first place. That's a pretty sad argument. It's not so bad when you have something to work with. They're probably a serviceable QB because they learn well, are ok athletic-wise, and have some other tools in the toolbox if one particular thing about them isn't so great.
Trotter looks like he was converted from the waterboy position to QB over the summer.
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I think the difference with Cam is that Cam had talent there in the first place. Insane talent. It only had to be refined a little. I guess Todd was "fixed" about as much as he could be, but at this point, I could argue that he has better skills than Trotter in the first place. That's a pretty sad argument. It's not so bad when you have something to work with. They're probably a serviceable QB because they learn well, are ok athletic-wise, and have some other tools in the toolbox if one particular thing about them isn't so great.
Trotter looks like he was converted from the waterboy position to QB over the summer.
You're a dumb ass...
Fuck...I agree with you...
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I think I misread you before. We agree.
This is true.
Take deep breaths Jim. :thumsup:
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This is true.
Take deep breaths Jim. :thumsup:
Trotter sux, we have nothing but raw talent behind him, and I'm like :facepalm: this could have been a half decent team with even a Chris Todd at QB.
BTW, you can count Kodi in with the ones that can't be fixed.
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I think the difference with Cam is that Cam had talent there in the first place. Insane talent. It only had to be refined a little. I guess Todd was "fixed" about as much as he could be, but at this point, I could argue that he has better skills than Trotter in the first place. That's a pretty sad argument. It's not so bad when you have something to work with. They're probably a serviceable QB because they learn well, are ok athletic-wise, and have some other tools in the toolbox if one particular thing about them isn't so great.
Trotter looks like he was converted from the waterboy position to QB over the summer.
Difference in Trotter and Todd? Todd was confident/arrogant enough to make a decision, and live with the results. Trotter isn't.
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Trotter might be a practice standout, do everything right, better than the others even, but this is his first season to start and he has gradually worsened.
We tried a short game against Clemson and dropped three or four. Typically when a QB is having these problems you see some sprint outs...but who will get open? That's part of the problem too.
We have 12-20 WR/TE/HBack ATH types.
We should have six guys to Arky's four that can ball better than any other team.
Moseley needs a chance to prove himself worthy. Who knows, the team could rally around him and he might be one of those guys that performs well on the stage. He might stink, but how will we ever know?
Agree, Frazier is young and just needs some easier throws to gradually build his confidence.
I guess we can keep pounding it and try to stay out of 3rd and 4+, utilize the punter and play field position.
God I can't believe I said that with all of this coaching and talent.
WHERE IS THE MOTION OFFENSE?
It drove defenses crazy, lured them out of position and created mismatches. The entire backfield could benefit from it.
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Sorry. This year's offense has the motion sickness.
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I do not have a horse in this race but I feel like the problem is how complex an D1 defense is and how your QB handles it. With Cam defenses knew if they blitzed Cam would run over someone and get to the endzone. So you had to play zone and he was able to read defenses a little easier. I did not say it was easy just a little easier. This year Trotter can run a little but he is not Cam. Defenses can blitz and mix coverages without worry of the QB hurting them too bad with his feet. When a defense shows cover 2 and rolls to man free with an OLB and Mike blitz holy shitake where is the hot route. Next play cover 2 robber with MLB spying the dump to Dyer. I agree with Gus by adding more screens and using the TE more however little or no short game will get you beat.
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Trotter might be a practice standout, do everything right, better than the others even, but this is his first season to start and he has gradually worsened.
We tried a short game against Clemson and dropped three or four. Typically when a QB is having these problems you see some sprint outs...but who will get open? That's part of the problem too.
We have 12-20 WR/TE/HBack ATH types.
We should have six guys to Arky's four that can ball better than any other team.
Moseley needs a chance to prove himself worthy. Who knows, the team could rally around him and he might be one of those guys that performs well on the stage. He might stink, but how will we ever know?
Agree, Frazier is young and just needs some easier throws to gradually build his confidence.
I guess we can keep pounding it and try to stay out of 3rd and 4+, utilize the punter and play field position.
God I can't believe I said that with all of this coaching and talent.
WHERE IS THE MOTION OFFENSE?
It drove defenses crazy, lured them out of position and created mismatches. The entire backfield could benefit from it.
The way I see it is we have nothing to lose by trying Frazier or Moseley for a game. We're gonna win or lose the same number of games if any of them perform poor. The difference is: we KNOW Trotter is going to perform poor. He's hopeless. We can only gain by trying another option. At worst we will do the same. At least we know Frazier has some upside and his problems are youth. Trotter's problems are talent and mental toughness. He's had 4 years to ready for this. If he is not ready now, he's not gonna be.
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I do not have a horse in this race but I feel like the problem is how complex an D1 defense is and how your QB handles it. With Cam defenses knew if they blitzed Cam would run over someone and get to the endzone. So you had to play zone and he was able to read defenses a little easier. I did not say it was easy just a little easier. This year Trotter can run a little but he is not Cam. Defenses can blitz and mix coverages without worry of the QB hurting them too bad with his feet. When a defense shows cover 2 and rolls to man free with an OLB and Mike blitz holy shitake where is the hot route. Next play cover 2 robber with MLB spying the dump to Dyer. I agree with Gus by adding more screens and using the TE more however little or no short game will get you beat.
I have talked to many coaches that rely on run heavy/PAP that pretty much have no quick game in their playbook. They simply choose not to spend the practice time on something they'll use very little. Think about the I/Wing T type teams you face...how many use much 3 step passing? Gus has a little, but it's just not what he does. And, of course, there's an outlet/dump off route on every play, which is the only one he's hitting now pretty much.
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I have talked to many coaches that rely on run heavy/PAP that pretty much have no quick game in their playbook. They simply choose not to spend the practice time on something they'll use very little. Think about the I/Wing T type teams you face...how many use much 3 step passing? Gus has a little, but it's just not what he does. And, of course, there's an outlet/dump off route on every play, which is the only one he's hitting now pretty much.
I know I am not an SEC coach nor do I try to say I am but I do coach high school and we run the Wing-T. We noticed we needed a passing game. We use 90 (3 step), 50 (5 step), PAP, and the screen game. We are 6-0 and ranked in the top ten nationally. Our QB has a 66% completion rating with 729 yards passing 9 TDs and 3 ints. We have also rushed for 1460 yards. We like to call our offense the sling-t. Grayson High School.
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I know I am not an SEC coach nor do I try to say I am but I do coach high school and we run the Wing-T. We noticed we needed a passing game. We use 90 (3 step), 50 (5 step), PAP, and the screen game. We are 6-0 and ranked in the top ten nationally. Our QB has a 66% completion rating with 729 yards passing 9 TDs and 3 ints. We have also rushed for 1460 yards. We like to call our offense the sling-t. Grayson High School.
HAHAHAHAHA JR...No Huddle saw your "coach knowledge" and raised all in...
For the record, No Huddle, that sounds like the offense we ran when I was in high school. It was a good high school offense as long as the team was well coached and executed properly.
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I know I am not an SEC coach nor do I try to say I am but I do coach high school and we run the Wing-T. We noticed we needed a passing game. We use 90 (3 step), 50 (5 step), PAP, and the screen game. We are 6-0 and ranked in the top ten nationally. Our QB has a 66% completion rating with 729 yards passing 9 TDs and 3 ints. We have also rushed for 1460 yards. We like to call our offense the sling-t. Grayson High School.
I'm sure you know too, that coaches "do what they do". You have to have some flexibility, but you can't morph your offense every year from one extreme to the other.
And I'm not an SEC coach either. But you know practice time is valuable. You can only get good at so many things.
I envy you. We suck! And it's not for lack of talent.
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I'm sure you know too, that coaches "do what they do". You have to have some flexibility, but you can't morph your offense every year from one extreme to the other.
And I'm not an SEC coach either. But you know practice time is valuable. You can only get good at so many things.
I envy you. We suck! And it's not for lack of talent.
Yes sir you are correct you can't morph and you do what you are comfortable with. I am sure Gus is trying to get his playmakers the ball and with limited practice time he has to pick what they are best at and to win with.
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I know I am not an SEC coach nor do I try to say I am but I do coach high school and we run the Wing-T. We noticed we needed a passing game. We use 90 (3 step), 50 (5 step), PAP, and the screen game. We are 6-0 and ranked in the top ten nationally. Our QB has a 66% completion rating with 729 yards passing 9 TDs and 3 ints. We have also rushed for 1460 yards. We like to call our offense the sling-t. Grayson High School.
This man don't lie.
http://www.highschoolsports.net/super25/Football/Varsity/Boys/
I saw this Monday.
6 Grayson Loganville, GA 6-0-0
Result: Three of RB Robert Nkemdiche’s four carries were for TDs in 34-14 win Friday vs. previously unbeaten Dacula. Next: Friday at Parkview (Lilburn).
How do yall feel about playing Parkview NH? They have been a mainstay the last 10-15 years in GA.
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This man don't lie.
http://www.highschoolsports.net/super25/Football/Varsity/Boys/
I saw this Monday.
How do yall feel about playing Parkview NH? They have been a mainstay the last 10-15 years in GA.
Grayson is a great program.
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Grayson is a great program.
Meh. Etowah High School would beat their pants off......
At cross-country!
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This man don't lie.
http://www.highschoolsports.net/super25/Football/Varsity/Boys/
I saw this Monday.
How do yall feel about playing Parkview NH? They have been a mainstay the last 10-15 years in GA.
It will be a battle. Their lower programs (JV and ninth grade) are little down this year but their Varsity is good. They are 4-0 in the region and so are we. Slugfest no doubt. Hopefully we can get them in the end. They have a few guys going both ways so maybe we can get to them in the fourth. I know I am ready.
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Grayson is a great program.
Thank you. We work those guys hard.
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This man don't lie.
http://www.highschoolsports.net/super25/Football/Varsity/Boys/
I saw this Monday.
How do yall feel about playing Parkview NH? They have been a mainstay the last 10-15 years in GA.
Also Robert is a DE that plays a little RB. You need to go to ihigh.com and watch his touchdown run right before the half. UNREAL!
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This man don't lie.
http://www.highschoolsports.net/super25/Football/Varsity/Boys/
I saw this Monday.
How do yall feel about playing Parkview NH? They have been a mainstay the last 10-15 years in GA.
Beat Parkview 36-0.
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Beat Parkview 36-0.
Sounds like your primed to take State.
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The state is loaded with talent. It will be hard. Brookwood returned like their whole team and they won state last year. We have to play them next week. They are in our region.
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Question:
What happened to swing passes to Onterio or Dyer? We hardly ever throw the ball to Dyer.
Back on point...
Also part of the problem with the 2 headed QB is the lack of ability to get into a rythm. While Frazier's two picks were horrible, we kinda just threw him in and said throw. As Mosley stated it took him a couple of reps to get into the flow of the game. That being said I say give Mosley the game at LSU and see what he can do. Then give him half the game at Ole Miss, if nothing improves I say go to Frazier from that point forward.
I liked the throws Mosley made and he wasn't nearly as tentative. Granted he didn't look great but again he was thrown into the game and it took him awhile to adjust.
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Oh and BTW as much as I like Gus, he made some horrible play decisions in the UF game.
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Question:
What happened to swing passes to Onterio or Dyer? We hardly ever throw the ball to Dyer.
Back on point...
Also part of the problem with the 2 headed QB is the lack of ability to get into a rythm. While Frazier's two picks were horrible, we kinda just threw him in and said throw. As Mosley stated it took him a couple of reps to get into the flow of the game. That being said I say give Mosley the game at LSU and see what he can do. Then give him half the game at Ole Miss, if nothing improves I say go to Frazier from that point forward.
I liked the throws Mosley made and he wasn't nearly as tentative. Granted he didn't look great but again he was thrown into the game and it took him awhile to adjust.
No participant in thread hijack? Its like I dont know you anymore.
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The best thing to do going forward is to put Dyer at wildcat and just shove it down everyone's throat!
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The best thing to do going forward is to put Dyer at wildcat and just shove it down everyone's throat!
I hope this was tongue in cheek
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I hope this was tongue in cheek
They'll never see it coming!
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The best thing to do going forward is to put Dyer at wildcat and just shove it down everyone's throat!
Dyer is completely worthless in the wildcat. They know he can't throw. All they do is make him keep the ball instead of give on the speed sweep, and he's good for maybe 2 yards at best. It's good stuff as long as there's at least a threat of a pass.
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MY PREVIOUS POST : :sarcasm:
I absolutely jump up and down and scream at the TV EVERY time they do this.
TOTAL WHORE SHIT!