Tigers X - Number one Source to Talk Auburn Tigers Sports
Pat Dye Field => War Damn Eagle => Topic started by: Snaggletiger on October 18, 2010, 11:35:22 AM
-
Asking for your armchair analysis only. I'm well aware that our staff couldn't give two farts in the wind what people on a message board think or suggest but hey, as fans, what else have we got?
Coming into this season, I think the prevailing school of thought was that with a year in Malzahn's system, a few more skill position weapons, an experienced line and possibly a better overall QB(At least a better running QB) this offense had the potential to be at least as good as last year and hopefully, a little better. But, if AU was going to get to that 10-11 win mark, the defense had to show a good bit of improvement over one of the worst statistical years in Auburn history in 09'. That should happen with a full year in Roof's system and the perception of much needed depth coming into this year.
Fast forward to week 8 of the season and AU is sitting at #4 in the BCS with one of the most dynamic offenses and playmakers America. In one sense, it's a miracle they've made it to this point unscathed because the defense may have actually digressed from last year. Yeah, I know, Arkansas was one of the better offenses in the country and we shouldn't read too much into one game. Sorry, but outside of a legit performance against MSU on the road, this defense is almost laughable at times. At some point, possibly this weekend, the offense is going to have that WTF day with turnovers, crazy bounces and out of sync play. The defense will have to step it up and win the game. Can they do it with the current personnel and schemes? I'm not real comfortable with that prospect. When things start to snowball like they did for a time this Saturday, what would you do?
NUMBER ONE: Take Neiko Thorpe out of the game. No, this isn't AUFamily and I know...they're just kids...Auburn kids playing their heart and souls....fuck that. He is the worst defensive back I believe I have ever seen in...well...foEVAH!!! I'm not exagerrating when I say any freshman DB we have on the bench could do better. Could they do worse? And why, pray tell (As GF pointed out Saturday) do they continue not only to play him, but put him on the opposing teams best WR? Does anyone realize that the only corch in America dumber than Ted Roof is the idiot that decided to try and loft a couple of passes over the middle linebacker and NOT throw at Thorpe every play? Fucksake this guy is bad.
NUMBER TWO: When we start getting gashed like Saturday and a team is picking on one player like that, change your schemes. Armchair suggestion.....go to a Bears/Jets type alignment...stack the box and bring at least one extra man every single play. Make them beat you with a quick, perfect throw every down. If they do, they do. Hats off. Why not change it up, they're ripping you a new one anyway. But sitting back and continually allowing them to pick Neiko Thorpe apart is just unacceptable.
What changes would you make? Different alignments, different personnel at certain positions? Would you try some of the young linebackers with more playng time? Let Fairley play corner? (I keed)
-
The good new is, LSU somehow signed the worst two quarterbacks in college football, and they rotate both of them. Auburn's defense should be able to get a breather this week.
-
Asking for your armchair analysis only. I'm well aware that our staff couldn't give two farts in the wind what people on a message board think or suggest but hey, as fans, what else have we got?
Coming into this season, I think the prevailing school of thought was that with a year in Malzahn's system, a few more skill position weapons, an experienced line and possibly a better overall QB(At least a better running QB) this offense had the potential to be at least as good as last year and hopefully, a little better. But, if AU was going to get to that 10-11 win mark, the defense had to show a good bit of improvement over one of the worst statistical years in Auburn history in 09'. That should happen with a full year in Roof's system and the perception of much needed depth coming into this year.
Fast forward to week 8 of the season and AU is sitting at #4 in the BCS with one of the most dynamic offenses and playmakers America. In one sense, it's a miracle they've made it to this point unscathed because the defense may have actually digressed from last year. Yeah, I know, Arkansas was one of the better offenses in the country and we shouldn't read too much into one game. Sorry, but outside of a legit performance against MSU on the road, this defense is almost laughable at times. At some point, possibly this weekend, the offense is going to have that WTF day with turnovers, crazy bounces and out of sync play. The defense will have to step it up and win the game. Can they do it with the current personnel and schemes? I'm not real comfortable with that prospect. When things start to snowball like they did for a time this Saturday, what would you do?
NUMBER ONE: Take Neiko Thorpe out of the game. No, this isn't AUFamily and I know...they're just kids...Auburn kids playing their heart and souls....fuck that. He is the worst defensive back I believe I have ever seen in...well...foEVAH!!! I'm not exagerrating when I say any freshman DB we have on the bench could do better. Could they do worse? And why, pray tell (As GF pointed out Saturday) do they continue not only to play him, but put him on the opposing teams best WR? Does anyone realize that the only corch in America dumber than Ted Roof is the idiot that decided to try and loft a couple of passes over the middle linebacker and NOT throw at Thorpe every play? Fucksake this guy is bad.
NUMBER TWO: When we start getting gashed like Saturday and a team is picking on one player like that, change your schemes. Armchair suggestion.....go to a Bears/Jets type alignment...stack the box and bring at least one extra man every single play. Make them beat you with a quick, perfect throw every down. If they do, they do. Hats off. Why not change it up, they're ripping you a new one anyway. But sitting back and continually allowing them to pick Neiko Thorpe apart is just unacceptable.
What changes would you make? Different alignments, different personnel at certain positions? Would you try some of the young linebackers with more playng time? Let Fairley play corner? (I keed)
Only general observations. Nieko Thorpe, or whoever...they are playing the best they have. They may not be good, but I assure you, they're the best we have. I don't think that is the answer, unless they're failing to grasp their assignments. If that were the case, I'm sure they'd be pulled.
I don't know all the coverages we play. Cover 2, and Cover 3 are pretty easy to recognize. I don't know if we are asking them to do things schematically that don't fit our talent set, or if they're using poor individual technique. I heard Gary Danielson talking about Alabama's DBs the other day, and how they're coached to run with WRs in man, and not look back for the ball, but rather read the WR and when the WRs hands go up, they're supposed to rip through the WRs arms to prevent the catch, or dislodge a caught ball before it's secured. I know this is "the new" way of DBs, AND it makes sense to play that way IF you have less athletic DBs because it's easier to run the way your facing than to look back, thus since a WR HAS to look back to catch a ball, a DB can run with him more easily if the DB doesn't have to turn and look back. OK, I can't say I'm ok with that technique...yet, but if Saban is teaching it, it must be sound enough. That said, our DBs never look back OR prevent a ball from being caught. My thoughts on it, and I've admitted here that I know little about Defensive scheme other than the very basics...if you suck at covering people, you run zone, and keep everything in front of you, and make the offense pay for every yard with solid tackling. You can teach the most nonathletic to tackle. Give up yards and use the endzone/endline as an extra defender when they're in the red zone and can't simply outrun you...force FG's instead of TDs.
-
The good new is, LSU somehow signed the worst two quarterbacks in college football, and they rotate both of them. Auburn's defense should be able to get a breather this week.
IF it wasn't one of those two that lit up Auburn's secondary 2 years ago.
-
I never feel safe with the Hat coming to town. Some crazy shit will happen, like a herd of squirrels with ADHD will run out on the field just as we're going in for the winning score. Or Cam will have an allergic reaction to shellfish and swell up like a blowfish at half time. I just don't trust the Hat.
OR....LSU could do something crazy like throw at Neiko EVERY down.
-
The defense will have to step it up and win the game. Can they do it with the current personnel and schemes?
I agree with you on all accounts, however, when you stop and think about it...they actually did do this on Sat.
They made 3 plays that ended the ball game.
That aside I am at the point where I don't know what to say outside of let Cam play defense?
Seriously though Neiko had trouble covering himself with a blanket last night. Tackling is atrocious, which I really.... really don't understand. Both my feet are on the Fire Ted Roof bandwagon.
-
Also I am thinking of emailing Roof and telling him about the Micky Andrews style of defense.
Perhaps Neiko would be the one to incorporate it.
If you are going to get burned for a 40 yard TD or a 25 yard pass play...Here's an idea....before the ball gets there tackle the Motherfing Wide Receiver...it is only 15 yards.
-
I agree with you on all accounts, however, when you stop and think about it...they actually did do this on Sat.
They made 3 plays that ended the ball game.
That aside I am at the point where I don't know what to say outside of let Cam play defense? Seriously though Neiko had trouble covering himself with a blanket last night. Tackling is atrocious, which I really really don't understand. Both my feet are on the Fire Ted Roof bandwagon.
If you think back to 2008, when we sucked offensively, and as a team for the most par, many of these same defensive players, played pretty damn good. They've gotten worse. Bynes, and Stephens were in the LB corp, and Thorpe, Savage and Ethridge were DBs...Bynes and Thorpe both burst on the scene that year with solid years. In that year, when we completely sucked team wise, we finished the year ranked:
29th Total Def
14th Scoring Def
19th Pass Def
54th Rush Def.
It's not like they haven't ever played good Defense.
Top 1/4 in all but one, top half in that one. And that was Paul Rhodes one and only year at Auburn, and they picked up his scheme just fine.
-
Pray..................a lot.
I have officially joined every single religious organization/sect/superstition that has ever existed on the planet.
I will be the "most interesting dressed" person at the LSwho game...........and will be chanting in a trance like state through out the entire game.
:bar:
-
Top In-Game text of the week goes to our very own Godfather. I chortled audibly while spitting beer when I read...
Da Roof..Da Roof...Da Roof should be fired.
-
Top In-Game text of the week goes to our very own Godfather. I chortled audibly while spitting beer when I read...
Da Roof..Da Roof...Da Roof should be fired.
We don't need no defense let the mother fucker run...run Cameron Newton run! was the end of that, but got caught up in da game. :thumsup:
-
I still don't understand the Bates to LB move. I'm not saying he's doing a bad job at LB at all, I just don't see where he was the missing link in the front 7 from last year to this year. I do think he is somewhat part of the issue in the secondary. The front 4 is greatly improved, Fairley in particular. I think that is the biggest difference in the run defense than anything. So far the pass defense hasn't came back to bite AU in the ass, but it won't be a surprise if it does happen.
-
Tackling is atrocious, which I really.... really don't understand.
Gotta say this is the one area where I think we have had some improvement. There were numerous open field tackles on Saturday that we would not have made this time last year.
That being said, I can teach them how to do that.
I have been slipped a Roofie and I don't like it.
-
Gotta say this is the one area where I think we have had some improvement. There were numerous open field tackles on Saturday that we would not have made this time last year.
That being said, I can teach them how to do that.
I have been slipped a Roofie and I don't like it.
We did tackle better in the open field.
-
I still don't understand the Bates to LB move. I'm not saying he's doing a bad job at LB at all, I just don't see where he was the missing link in the front 7 from last year to this year. I do think he is somewhat part of the issue in the secondary. The front 4 is greatly improved, Fairley in particular. I think that is the biggest difference in the run defense than anything. So far the pass defense hasn't came back to bite AU in the ass, but it won't be a surprise if it does happen.
I'm with ya' on the Bates move. I wasn't a fan of it and it appears (Maybe it's just perception) that it's not paying dividends. I understand the logic behind it and having the smaller, much faster guy on the outside. But Bates has just been a non-factor in my opinion. Possibly the stats would say otheriwse, I haven't checked. But, I kind of expected to hear him consistently in on big plays, causing fumbles, the occasional int. etc. As a safety, the guy was a beast and did some serious head hunting. He may not have been in position all the time but you didn't want to come around the corner on a run.
-
We did tackle better in the open field.
We should, we are getting a shit load of practice at it.
-
Also I am thinking of emailing Roof and telling him about the Micky Andrews style of defense.
Perhaps Neiko would be the one to incorporate it.
If you are going to get burned for a 40 yard TD or a 25 yard pass play...Here's an idea....before the ball gets there tackle the Motherfing Wide Receiver...it is only 15 yards.
SERIOUSLY! That is what I tell my 12/13 yr olds. If you are beat and the ball is in the air, tackle the dude. 15 yds is better than a TD.
-
We should, we are getting a shit load of practice at it.
:clap:
-
Quick Thoughts:
1) Pass defense woes against: Alshon Jeffery, Randall Cobb, Greg Childs, Chad Bumphis, Kyle Parker, Ryan Mallett. Not saying that there aren't problems, but this list deserves consideration.
2) Chicken or egg? Secondary digresses, front seven improves.
-
Quick Thoughts:
1) Pass defense woes against: Alshon Jeffery, Randall Cobb, Greg Childs, Chad Bumphis, Kyle Parker, Ryan Mallett. Not saying that there aren't problems, but this list deserves consideration.
2) Chicken or egg? Secondary digresses, front seven improves.
Buddy of mine that's coached said we're not getting pressure on the QB, and though our DBs aren't world beaters, the best DBs can't cover forever.. I thought "You must be crazy"...then went and checked the stats..
Team-Tackles For Loss-Sacks
MSU-7-3
Clem-8-1
SC-8-3
UK-5-1
Ark-3-2
Fairley had zero sacks vs SC, UK, Ark.
That is not to say he's not been effective at all, but clearly the other teams are making Fairly a focus of their pass pro. The overall production in QB pressure is down slightly. That little difference can be a concern and a reason.
-
Nothing wholesale but... shutting out the rest of the teams on the schedule is a start.
The best defense we have is Cam and any run game between the lines we can muster.
Change nothing about the front four which is containing the run with exception of the perimeter against phenomenal backs like Cobb for Kentucky.
I would save my stunts and blitz packages until a team is on our side of the field because holding any team to a FG, especially one like Auburn, is a victory in itself. This reserves some energy for whatever Roof has going in that 4th qtr. prevent thing he does so well.
Move Bates back to SS. Play everyone on the three deep that's able bodied.
Overexamine tendencies- ie Petrino likes to go to a receiver twice within a drive only adds a double move with the same receiver a few plays later. Clemson (both backs) ran at our right side repeatedly, Miss State (FB) tried it too. They used our aggressive end play against us.
There's no defending the likes of an Alshon Jeffrey except to play extremely aggressive. If you don't get at least one PI against him you aren't working hard enough. Trip, tangle and step on his feet. And if he isn't whinning like a bitch to the refs you aren't distracting him enough. If that doesn't work, play dirty!
In spite of how we all see it, Chizik takes the quiet approach, never calling anyone out and never laying blame. That is a best quality in a leader because these guys know when they phuck up. But he will rarely show them up unless they want it that way. I don't see the confusion on the sidelines as in previous years. He really has a good handle on this team. Chizik has to cringe at all of the errors but he doesn't let it show.
-
SERIOUSLY! That is what I tell my 12/13 yr olds.
That's better than telling your 12/13 year olds, "Hi, I'm Howard"
-
That's better than telling your 12/13 year olds, "Hi, I'm Howard"
Or, "Hey little buddy, you want some candy?"
-
Or, "Hey little buddy, you want some candy?"
I think that's what he says beforehand, or maybe he asks his little buddy, "do you want a little Sally?"
-
I think that's what he says beforehand, or maybe he asks his little buddy, "do you want a little Sally?"
You bitches see my new ride?
-
You bitches see my new ride?
You should have sprung for the tricked out ice cream truck.
-
You should have sprung for the tricked out ice cream truck.
It was tied up in Tuscaloosa.
-
Quick Thoughts:
1) Pass defense woes against: Alshon Jeffery, Randall Cobb, Greg Childs, Chad Bumphis, Kyle Parker, Ryan Mallett. Not saying that there aren't problems, but this list deserves consideration.
2) Chicken or egg? Secondary digresses, front seven improves.
Don't forget Arkansas States dynamic trio of:
A. Muse 4 - 80 yards
D. Frampton 8 - 74 yards
T. Stockemer 6 - 58 yards.
323 passing yards overall...which didn't all come when the game was out of hand. Our pass defense ranks 108 out of 122 teams Roof needs to do some of that corching shit.
-
All I know is we are stuck with this fucker and I can't get past it.
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d58/saniflush/tedroofie.jpg)
-
Don't forget Arkansas States dynamic trio of:
A. Muse 4 - 80 yards
D. Frampton 8 - 74 yards
T. Stockemer 6 - 58 yards.
323 passing yards overall...which didn't all come when the game was out of hand. Our pass defense ranks 108 out of 122 teams Roof needs to do some of that corching shit.
Problems exist, no doubt.
Just pointing out that we are playing some of the best in the country week in and week out.
-
Problems exist, no doubt.
Just pointing out that we are playing some of the best in the country week in and week out.
Agreed. I still have to axe the same question that Brian axed Saturday. Why does Neiko have to be the one they put on all those guys?
-
Don't forget Arkansas States dynamic trio of:
A. Muse 4 - 80 yards
D. Frampton 8 - 74 yards
T. Stockemer 6 - 58 yards.
323 passing yards overall...which didn't all come when the game was out of hand. Our pass defense ranks 108 out of 122 teams Roof needs to do some of that corching poop.
It would be nice if someone like Eltoro or the frosh step up and become a gammer. That would allow us to move Bates back. IMO, that would help out a lot. It would at least give us another guy back there with experience. Right now we have Thorpe, Washington, Ethridge and McNurra that has significant PT. Bates did a damn fine job last year imv and personally I would like to see him back at safety.
-
It would be nice if someone like Eltoro or the frosh step up and become a gammer. That would allow us to move Bates back. IMO, that would help out a lot. It would at least give us another guy back there with experience. Right now we have Thorpe, Washington, Ethridge and McNurra that has significant PT. Bates did a damn fine job last year imv and personally I would like to see him back at safety.
As I was saying earlier, unless I'm missing something I don't see where Bates is making any significant impact at LB. I understand the reasoning a bit but if it's not producing the desired results and you have such a clustercluck in your secondary, why not move him back and let Jonathan Evans get his shot or one of the frosh? And weren't they raving on Ikeem Means at safety?
-
As I was saying earlier, unless I'm missing something I don't see where Bates is making any significant impact at LB. I understand the reasoning a bit but if it's not producing the desired results and you have such a clustercluck in your secondary, why not move him back and let Jonathan Evans get his shot or one of the frosh? And weren't they raving on Ikeem Means at safety?
This may help a little if you haven't read it yet. I posted this yesterday but its lost on page two at this point.
http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2010/10/auburns_secondary_feeling_the.html
-
Per WJOX, T'Sharvin Bell is out this week against LSU.
I am not going to sit here and say that we have the best players and that the coaching sucks and I am not going to say that the coaching is great and the players suck. It is a combo of both IMO, but someone needs to figure out that they have a chance to step up and do something about the opportunity that is in front of them.
I don't care who steps up, Means, Cole, the younger McNurra, the water boy, Aubbie, but for fuckSAKE (+ $1 to Snaggletiger) someone, anyone step up and fill the void.
-
This may help a little if you haven't read it yet. I posted this yesterday but its lost on page two at this point.
http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2010/10/auburns_secondary_feeling_the.html
Had I actually read that, I would have saved myself some typing. I like getting some new blood back there but damn Ted Roof is a dumb fuck.
-
Had I actually read that, I would have saved myself some typing. I like getting some new blood back there but damn Ted Roof is a dumb fuck.
Its unfortunate that we have any player get hurt, but I like what AUTiger said. I mean this is a perfect opportunity for the younger guys to step in and take it. In the past, this has shown to be a blessing because there is that extra motivation. Yes, they might get burned some but like several have already pointed out, like yourself, it sure as hell aint gonna hurt nothing at this point. We actually might even see an improvement, who knows.
-
Its unfortunate that we have any player get hurt, but I like what AUTiger said. I mean this is a perfect opportunity for the younger guys to step in and take it. In the past, this has shown to be a blessing because there is that extra motivation. Yes, they might get burned some but like several have already pointed out, like yourself, it sure as hell aint gonna hurt nothing at this point. We actually might even see an improvement, who knows.
Wurd!!!
-
Fuck, Fuck, Fuckity, Fuck. +1 GF.
-
Its unfortunate that we have any player get hurt, but I like what AUTiger said. I mean this is a perfect opportunity for the younger guys to step in and take it. In the past, this has shown to be a blessing because there is that extra motivation. Yes, they might get burned some but like several have already pointed out, like yourself, it sure as hell aint gonna hurt nothing at this point. We actually might even see an improvement, who knows.
I'm always anxious for a guy who couldn't win the job from a guy who sux, to get the job due to the sucky guy's injury. Like AUTiger1 said, I'm not willing to lay the blame in any one spot...BUT some of these guys have played ball well in the past, and have not improved...and I look more at the position coach than the DC...namely Lolley. The Rock improved his group a shitload in one season, and did it with help from Freshmen. Lolley got seasoned vets returning from injury along with younger guys who have some experience due to the veteran's injuries, and they haven't improved one fucking iota.
-
I'm always anxious for a guy who couldn't win the job from a guy who sux, to get the job due to the sucky guy's injury. Like AUTiger1 said, I'm not willing to lay the blame in any one spot...BUT some of these guys have played ball well in the past, and have not improved...and I look more at the position coach than the DC...namely Lolley. The Rock improved his group a poopload in one season, and did it with help from Freshmen. Lolley got seasoned vets returning from injury along with younger guys who have some experience due to the veteran's injuries, and they haven't improved one phuking iota.
Why does no one mention Thigpen when talking about our DB's? Is Lolley in charge of the DB's more so than Coach Thig?
-
I'm always anxious for a guy who couldn't win the job from a guy who sux, to get the job due to the sucky guy's injury. Like AUTiger1 said, I'm not willing to lay the blame in any one spot...BUT some of these guys have played ball well in the past, and have not improved...and I look more at the position coach than the DC...namely Lolley. The Rock improved his group a shitload in one season, and did it with help from Freshmen. Lolley got seasoned vets returning from injury along with younger guys who have some experience due to the veteran's injuries, and they haven't improved one fucking iota.
Both Lolley and Thigpen are coaching DB's. I am just wondering if this hurts more than it helps having two guys do the same job. When Chizik was DC at Auburn, he coached the DB's and they were off the chain. I sure wish he would turn these guys around like that.
-
Both Lolley and Thigpen are coaching DB's. I am just wondering if this hurts more than it helps having two guys do the same job. When Chizik was DC at Auburn, he coached the DB's and they were off the chain. I sure wish he would turn these guys around like that.
Kirby Smart is listed as the "secondary coach" at Alabama, but I know Nick coaches them too. Some staffs have a separate coach for DEs and DTs. DBs are a large unit...I don't know what each coach's job is...I know our DBs are the weak link on this team.
-
If I was an offense playing us, I would run the bubble screen until we stopped it.
I am of the opinion that we need to play a more aggressive press man on the outside. let the safeteys play over the top and put more pressure on the QB by sending a couple extra rushers. If you get beat fine, but a little more pressure D could provide a few mistakes by the other QB that can put us up by the needed couple TD's to pull away.
As much as I hate it we are playing to outscore the opponent and just a few stops a game can be the difference. The days of Pat Dye/Tuberville defense wins games are over for a while.
-
If I was an offense playing us, I would run the bubble screen until we stopped it.
I am of the opinion that we need to play a more aggressive press man on the outside. let the safeteys play over the top and put more pressure on the QB by sending a couple extra rushers. If you get beat fine, but a little more pressure D could provide a few mistakes by the other QB that can put us up by the needed couple TD's to pull away.
As much as I hate it we are playing to outscore the opponent and just a few stops a game can be the difference. The days of Pat Dye/Tuberville defense wins games are over for a while.
I think zone blitz, not man. Same basic theory as yours though.
-
Kirby Smart is listed as the "secondary coach" at Alabama, but I know Nick coaches them too. Some staffs have a separate coach for DEs and DTs. DBs are a large unit...I don't know what each coach's job is...I know our DBs are the weak link on this team.
Thats kind of what I'm saying. From what I have read in the past, Chizik goes from group to group. The way he had the DB's, this being the main group he coached up, playing in his DC tenure, I would think he could get these guys to step more.
-
Thats kind of what I'm saying. From what I have read in the past, Chizik goes from group to group. The way he had the DB's, this being the main group he coached up, playing in his DC tenure, I would think he could get these guys to step more.
Shut up you dumb fuck. You are the worstestest poster of like the All times.
-
Shut up you dumb fuck. You are the worstestest poster of like the All times.
No shit, apparently I am. I make no sense whatsoever.
-
No shit, apparently I am. I make no sense whatsoever.
Depends on which Message Board expert/nerd you ask.
Message Board posters who care enough to critique other message board posters' quality is irony at its finest.
-
Depends on which Message Board expert/nerd you ask.
Message Board posters who care enough to critique other message board posters' quality is irony at its finest.
You're out of your element, Donnie! :bar:
#1) Don't you ever mention God
#2) Don't ever fuck with woopig
-
You're out of your element, Donnie! :bar:
#1) Don't you ever mention God
#2) Don't ever fuck with woopig
Thou shalt idolize no other films but the Big Lebowski and Old School.
-
Thou shalt idolize no other films but the Big Lebowski and Old School.
Don't be such an insider GH.